Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]

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I love you, little skeleton man.
 
With "The new Huskar(tm)", max spears, use ult, use ghost scepter, makes fools suffer

Ghost + Aghs for ultimate suffering
 
Boken said:
I called your tic tac toe example a straw man because i was saying not all games are fundamentally complex, not that all games have absolutely zero complexity. (RPS is pretty close to tic tac toe though)

e.g. to simplify the concept, we can use "time to be able to function in the game"

dead simple, game solved immediately - 2 hrs to learn fundamental rules/mechanics (FPS) - 100 hrs to learn fundamentals->fundamentally complex (Dota)

---
I'm not sure what you're saying, I accept that there are things you need to learn in an FPS. I didnt miss "3d movement" because I wasnt saying FPSes are dead simple - I am trying to compare an FPS to the MOBA genre in my argument. Yes, 3d movement isn't easy. But Mobas have that (unit movement + seperate to camera movement - thats CRAAAZY) in addition to all the other knowledge crap going on. I am trying to say that the basic requirements to function in a moba is much higher than in an FPS

what do you mean the people dont matter? if they dont, who is playing the game?




I do it for you
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Everything depends on what you mean by 'basic requirements to function'. No one is likely to argue that mobas don't have a higher skill cap than FPS games, but you can play a game like dota at a very basic level without even worrying about any of the intricacies of higher level play. It's clear that plenty of people do this if you watch some low tier replays.

The basic goal of the game and the basic mechanics of controlling a hero are pretty damn simple and easy to understand. You don't need to know about denying or creep equilibrium from the start, you don't absolutely have to know the difference between pure damage and magic damage. These are things that add depth to the game, and you can learn them at your own pace. It's not like everyone who plays rec league baseball has to know how to throw a knuckleball. It's like any sport, you learn the advanced strategies when you need to learn them to get better. It's not like you are going to break out a zone press when you are playing basketball in the park, but it adds depth to the game at the highest levels.

In order for there to be an interesting level of competition at the high levels you can't have a 'solution' to the game. As they say, 'styles make fights'.

Nobody ever says 'no one will want to play basketball' because you have to know how to dibble and shoot before you are any good. They just accept that basketball is fun to play even if you completely suck, and it is a worthwhile experience to learn new facets of the game and get better.
 
Re channelling spells, what do people think of Lions mana drain? It's kind of in a weird spot, it's good for harassing in the lane but I really want to max hex, that spell is too good to max third. And by the time the teamfights start Lion isn't really someone who can stand in the middle of everyone channelling a spell.

I guess max mana-drain it could be pretty good for ganking a weaver or an anti-mage if you can hex them and then drain them while hexed so they don't have enough to blink away. I don't know if it drains enough for that though.

Also I've been buying mana boots on Lion since the tranqs nerf. I actually like the boost to his mana pool, his spells are very expensive and they give mana to the team as well.
 
Green Biker Dude said:
huskar. every. fucking. game.

or tree

fuck this game. bring back drow, centaur, lycan WHATEVER just get rid of these shitters
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huskar is ok. tree is getting fucking annoying now especially since people are realizing how broken he is. Not sure if I'd trade them for pubstomp drow, autowin lycan, or global haste rune + RP + aoe damage centaur ulti though.
 
Guys I have not kept up with stuff for a while. Are the treats and critter eggs already out? Do we know what we have to do to get them?
 
Tree?
I take it that means Treant?
My friend cursed it a lot when we played one game where someone picked it, and mostly blocked others paths and wasn't very useful.
I assume it is something others don't want to see *mental note: don't play the tree*
 
Woorloog said:
Tree?
I take it that means Treant?
My friend cursed it a lot when we played one game where someone picked it, and mostly blocked others paths and wasn't very useful.
I assume it is something others don't want to see *mental note: don't play the tree*
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Treant was long considered one of the worst heroes in the game, barely playable in casual pub games.

Then a shift in the meta caused a few pro teams to start giving him a shot because of Living Armor absolutly changing the dynamic of the early game, and then the Dota world suddenly discovered that holy shit wow, Living Armor really fucks up the early game and his other abilities aren't as terrible as they seem.

And now Treant is a viable character.

And it is glorious.
 
wtf you can weaver ult after death? is that a bug?


in the top 10 weekly, he died in the other teams base and then when he respawned he time lapsed and went all the way back to their base to throne them
 
dorkimoe said:
wtf you can weaver ult after death? is that a bug?


in the top 10 weekly, he died in the other teams base and then when he respawned he time lapsed and went all the way back to their base to throne them
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No bug. It sets you back 8? Seconds. If you instantly buyback and use it, you get set back that amount of time. But that is only usefull if you got bursted down in like 2-3 seconds.
 
The Technomancer said:
Treant was long considered one of the worst heroes in the game, barely playable in casual pub games.

Then a shift in the meta caused a few pro teams to start giving him a shot because of Living Armor absolutly changing the dynamic of the early game, and then the Dota world suddenly discovered that holy shit wow, Living Armor really fucks up the early game and his other abilities aren't as terrible as they seem.

And now Treant is a viable character.

And it is glorious.
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No.

When Icefrog changed Living Armour from the passive global aura to a global cast, everyone thought it would be hideously overpowered.

Then they realized that the ambiguous wording in the patch notes made it so that Living Armour did not do what people thought it would do.

Treant sucked then.

Then Icefrog changed it so that Living Armour now does what people thought it would do back during the first change.

Treant is now a good pick entirely for how hideously powerful that single spell is.
 
When you die, as far as the game is concerned you do not exist on the map, so all spells with timers like that pause and then count off when you respawn.
 
The Technomancer said:
Treant was long considered one of the worst heroes in the game, barely playable in casual pub games.

Then a shift in the meta caused a few pro teams to start giving him a shot because of Living Armor absolutly changing the dynamic of the early game, and then the Dota world suddenly discovered that holy shit wow, Living Armor really fucks up the early game and his other abilities aren't as terrible as they seem.

And now Treant is a viable character.

And it is glorious.
Click to expand...

Pureauthor said:
No.

When Icefrog changed Living Armour from the passive global aura to a global cast, everyone thought it would be hideously overpowered.

Then they realized that the ambiguous wording in the patch notes made it so that Living Armour did not do what people thought it would do.

Treant sucked then.

Then Icefrog changed it so that Living Armour now does what people thought it would do back during the first change.

Treant is now a good pick entirely for how hideously powerful that single spell is.
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Huh.
Certainly didn't help us in our game... probably just a bad player then.
 
Treant became really good when he got his current incarnation of living armor, not the old passive armor/hp regen or the older +regen buff. Coupled with his base dmg that kept getting buffed, he has a ton of staying power in an offlane, and also gives your other lanes so much of an advantage with that living armor. If you've watched Quantic games where they get their hands on both OD and tree, its pretty much a guaranteed win mid, as the enemy cannot do anything at all about that OD just dominating, ganks or no ganks.

The hero's great for early game aggresion too once you get the mek, as it just spits out so much healing and damage mitigation, and overgrowth is severely under appreciated as an aoe cc just because its not a 'real' stun. All in all, the hero received the same treatment as Alchemist, where steady and constant buffs brought it into the meta.
 
Treant also works very well with Weaver in Quantic's games, because the bug with amazing chasing power whose main weakness is fragility combos so, so well with Living Armour.
 
Pureauthor said:
No.

When Icefrog changed Living Armour from the passive global aura to a global cast, everyone thought it would be hideously overpowered.

Then they realized that the ambiguous wording in the patch notes made it so that Living Armour did not do what people thought it would do.

Treant sucked then.

Then Icefrog changed it so that Living Armour now does what people thought it would do back during the first change.

Treant is now a good pick entirely for how hideously powerful that single spell is.
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What was this? The "Living Armor damage reduction is now done for all instances of damage that reduce its charges" change? Because that was 6.77 and I only started seeing Treant in play after 78
 
Puck goes Dagon 5, never gets a blink dagger. But that's not why we lost. Lost because some guy connecting from Germany to US East DCs and never comes back while the game was still up in the air.
 
I have a question, if you position your web correctly, can you block the neutral creep camps used for lane pulling as Broodmother?
 
Artanisix said:
F you guys, I told you Treant was extremely strong months ago and no one listened.
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It's not in the changelogs, but Living Armor didn't work correctly for months after it got changed.

edit - To clarify, he was trialed in competitive play because everyone saw it and thought it would be broken. Turns out it was, but not in the good way.
 
kiaaa said:
It's not in the changelogs, but Living Armor didn't work correctly for months after it got changed.

edit - To clarify, he was trialed in competitive play because everyone saw it and thought it would be broken. Turns out it was, but not in the good way.
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It was fixed months before 6.78 and no one picked him up. That's what I'm talking about. I'm aware it was broken for a while.

I've been playing tree heavily for almost 4 months now.
 
Hellraider said:
There was a game where I saw a Treant carrying.Ridiculous shit, we were annihilated.
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Carry Treant is so much fun. Grab a Quelling Blade and you'll get every last hit with your eyes closed, while Living Armor stops any harass or gank attempt. Radiance + Cuirass + Heart, GG.

(Disclaimer: Don't try this in a serious game; it's for fun only.)

kiaaa said:
It's not in the changelogs, but Living Armor didn't work correctly for months after it got changed.

edit - To clarify, he was trialed in competitive play because everyone saw it and thought it would be broken. Turns out it was, but not in the good way.
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Huh, is this why his most popular builds used to max Leech Seed first? It seemed like his win rate suddenly shot through the roof at the same time people switched to maxing Living Armor first. I thought people just learned Living Armor builds were the superior choice, but it sounds like the shift happened as a result of a bug fix.
 
Anbokr said:
huskar is ok. tree is getting fucking annoying now especially since people are realizing how broken he is. Not sure if I'd trade them for pubstomp drow, autowin lycan, or global haste rune + RP + aoe damage centaur ulti though.
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the thing about old lycan is that he wasn't picked often due to how lame he was. and drow could be shutdown early with enough cc, however annoying she was. there was nothing you could do about centaur though

also, one other problem i have with the new huskar is that he can go pretty much any lane and do well as long as he isn't position 5. and in my experience he seems to win mid like 60-80% of the time (disregarding tree), so you have to come back from that as well. old huskar was much more balanced, i actually had a decent winrate with him even. i don't understand why they thought this was a good idea
 
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