Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]

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tsunami643 said:
I don't think it's too far to say that a zero-Raze SF is a bit cheesy.
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Against QoP its a legit build. Come level six QoP pretty much can blink in and kill but not with the build Milk went, I saw QoP blink in cast everything, Milk just right clicked her to death.
 
Argh, not sure what to bet on for the next match. I've been lucky enough to win all my bets (11) until now, but Liquid always seems like a risky party to bet against/for.

I thought DK played really well against Alliance though.
 
Inversive said:
Alliance are easily the best team in the world right now, they've crushed the chinese.

EURO EURO EURO :p
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I think you mean USA USA USA.

Crazy Euros not doing it right...

Plus they havent actually won anything yet. This is like saying LGD crushed TI2
 
I'd like to use gifcam on one of my replays but it doesn't stay on top when I launch Dota. How are you all getting it to do that?
 
Sanjay said:
Against QoP its a legit build. Come level six QoP pretty much can blink in and kill but not with the build Milk went, I saw QoP blink in cast everything, Milk just right clicked her to death.
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Oh man that was hilarious. I switched my view over to mid right at the end in time to see QOP throwing everything then SK just clonked her on the head and she was dead.
 
I get kind of confused about armour reduction, commentators often talk about it being a good strategy against characters that have high armour and also being good against people with low armour. (And similarly whether it's a good idea to get armour reduction items particularly on characters that have armour reducing abilities like Sladar/Venge/SF.)

One way I had it explained was that damage reduction and amplification has diminishing returns, so getting a deso against a late game anti-mage won't do much by itself, and similarly stacking too much armour reduction early might be wasteful.
 
Fucking Alliance has been so incredibly good. It's one thing to see a team (from anywhere) play so well, its another to see that the fear of Chinese teams being an impenetrable wall was misguided.
 
GordonHalfman said:
I get kind of confused about armour reduction, commentators often talk about it being a good strategy against characters that have high armour and also being good against people with low armour. (And similarly whether it's a good idea to get armour reduction items particularly on characters that have armour reducing abilities like Sladar/Venge/SF.)

One way I had it explained was that damage reduction and amplification has diminishing returns, so getting a deso against a late game anti-mage won't do much by itself, and similarly stacking too much armour reduction early might be wasteful.
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No, while there are technically diminishing returns on armor if you look at damage reduction/amplification, each point of armor is 6% more EHP regardless, so it's not really diminishing returns. Each point of armor means it will takes 6% longer to kill the target with physical attacks. Though since a large percentage of hero vs hero damage is magical, it is way less than 6% in reality. Which is why -armor is more useful vs roshan and towers than vs heroes.

The reason you don't stack -armor is that it leaves you weak in other areas, just like stacking any other stat does.

Worth noting there is a hard cap to damage bonus from having negative armor, but it is at -20, which is really really hard to reach vs even a low armor hero, and basically impossible to reach vs a stacked agi carry.
 
I have no idea. I didnt even see how SD ended up next to them on the Rosh ramp. He was just suddenly there then dead and it messed everything up. And no excuse to still fight once they were down 1 man.

TL has talent for sure but they need someone to make the right calls for them. They make too many foolish decisions.
 
1.09 said:
bat loses that matchup, nyx is 50/50 since od can just get rid of nyx's mana and no mana = no mana burn. Doesn't even matter if you bottle crow, you wont have enough max mana to burn unless you pick up arcanes, and OD won't let you do that.

Honestly, only few mids I can think of that beat OD are Sylla and sniper.
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Druid yes, Sniper, no. There is no way a good OD would lose to a sniper in mid. Sniper is way too squishy, just put points into OD's orb instead of astral and you can easily harass him out of lane. As for Bat vs OD, I think the idea, as with any hero Bat vs, is to essentially continue to stack napalm until they either back out of lane, or you have enough stacks to destroy them with firefly. The idea being to do so once you have a rune such as haste or invis most likely, so rune control, as always would be important, so you can get the jump on him, stopping him from astral imprisoning you when you go on him. If lasso is up then the job is much easier.

I feel like Nyx would still win the match up vs OD. You can carapace his orb, mana burn away his int advantage and he's so squishy early game that one good vendetta/stun/mana burn combo would likely kill him. I'd vote Nyx.
 
Nirvana said:
Druid yes, Sniper, no. There is no way a good OD would lose to a sniper in mid. Sniper is way too squishy, just put points into OD's orb instead of astral and you can easily harass him out of lane. As for Bat vs OD, I think the idea, as with any hero Bat vs, is to essentially continue to stack napalm until they either back out of lane, or you have enough stacks to destroy them with firefly. The idea being to do so once you have a rune such as haste or invis most likely, so rune control, as always would be important, so you can get the jump on him, stopping him from astral imprisoning you when you go on him. If lasso is up then the job is much easier.

I feel like Nyx would still win the match up vs OD. You can carapace his orb, mana burn away his int advantage and he's so squishy early game that one good vendetta/stun/mana burn combo would likely kill him. I'd vote Nyx.
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Unless OD gets ganked from the sidelanes, Nyx will never have enough of a mana pool to spam or combo. Sure you could carapace his orb but then what? You have no mana to combo. Youd have to kill him before he goes 3 in essence were he can just orb for mana + last hits.
 
Welp.

It really seems to me that Liquid needs more practice playing in a LAN environment. Sure, 3/5 of the players played together at TI but as their current team, this is their first LAN.

Considering how much they've improved their general play over the months, I think they can pull it together by TI3.

Here's hoping!
 
Keikaku said:
Welp.

It really seems to me that Liquid needs more practice playing in a LAN environment. Sure, 3/5 of the players played together at TI but as their current team, this is their first LAN.

Considering how much they've improved their general play over the months, I think they can pull it together by TI3.

Here's hoping!
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I don't think you can simulate the LAN experience of playing in a box with fans. Is there even any LANs they can play in until TI3?

PDX? Chicagoland? Dreamhack?
 
Nirvana said:
Druid yes, Sniper, no. There is no way a good OD would lose to a sniper in mid. Sniper is way too squishy, just put points into OD's orb instead of astral and you can easily harass him out of lane. As for Bat vs OD, I think the idea, as with any hero Bat vs, is to essentially continue to stack napalm until they either back out of lane, or you have enough stacks to destroy them with firefly. The idea being to do so once you have a rune such as haste or invis most likely, so rune control, as always would be important, so you can get the jump on him, stopping him from astral imprisoning you when you go on him. If lasso is up then the job is much easier.

I feel like Nyx would still win the match up vs OD. You can carapace his orb, mana burn away his int advantage and he's so squishy early game that one good vendetta/stun/mana burn combo would likely kill him. I'd vote Nyx.
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It really depends on how well the OD can control the creep wave early. If he can retain high ground advantage he can easily harass Nyx and punish him for every last hit attempt. It the lane pushes and OD has to go into the river/fight uphill miss chance for last hits, Nyx is in much better shape, but it's still going to be difficult.

Also if OD plays it right, Nyx should never have enough mana to mana burn early as an agi hero, certainly not enough mana to combo him.
 
Keikaku said:
Welp.

It really seems to me that Liquid needs more practice playing in a LAN environment. Sure, 3/5 of the players played together at TI but as their current team, this is their first LAN.

Considering how much they've improved their general play over the months, I think they can pull it together by TI3.

Here's hoping!
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They had good farm on their heroes, I just dont think they had the right teamfight. G1 has taught the value of getting drunk on rum. Maybe if they had concentrated on the supports (especially Lion) in the early fights instead of Gyro/Kunkka.
 
shira said:
I don't think you can simulate the LAN experience of playing in a box with fans. Is there even any LANs they can play in until TI3?

PDX? Chicagoland? Dreamhack?
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Dreamhack Summer. But really G1 is probably the best experience you could get. In a foreign country against the Chinese powerhouses.
 
iamblades said:
No, while there are technically diminishing returns on armor if you look at damage reduction/amplification, each point of armor is 6% more EHP regardless, so it's not really diminishing returns. Each point of armor means it will takes 6% longer to kill the target with physical attacks. Though since a large percentage of hero vs hero damage is magical, it is way less than 6% in reality. Which is why -armor is more useful vs roshan and towers than vs heroes.

The reason you don't stack -armor is that it leaves you weak in other areas, just like stacking any other stat does.

Worth noting there is a hard cap to damage bonus from having negative armor, but it is at -20, which is really really hard to reach vs even a low armor hero, and basically impossible to reach vs a stacked agi carry.
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That's interesting thanks, I hadn't considered the EHP thing. So I guess that means in practice that the amount of armour reduction you need depends on how much HP they have and how much of your damage output is physical. Which I guess tends to mean armour reduction is better saved for late game items.
 
GordonHalfman said:
That's interesting thanks, I hadn't considered the EHP thing. So I guess that means in practice that the amount of armour reduction you need depends on how much HP they have and how much of your damage output is physical. Which I guess tends to mean armour reduction is better saved for late game items.
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I wouldn't say you always save -armor items for late game, it just all depends on many variables and what your strategy is. -armor early game means you can do roshan and push towers super fast, but it's less useful vs heroes early game because so much of the early game damage is magical.

If you want to get deep in to the theorycrafting rabbit hole:

http://www.unc.edu/~thikket/math.html
 
i think i am reaching the point where i've realized that the amount of time it would take to learn this game would encompass the entirety of my lifespan so i should just enjoy watching matches on twitch and not bother trying to play
 
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