Dota 2 Beta Thread V: Real Talk Strikes Back [Tutorials]

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Declarius said:
Explaining from a pro perspective is annoying when your comments stink of an underlying "I could build/play this better, why are you playing wrong". Especially considering his team isn't even there and the players he is critiquing have proven to be better than him.
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Your argument from authority is as shittier than anything Aui's done casting, even the criticism of Loda's illusion micro.
 
HK-47 said:
Your argument from authority is as shittier than anything Aui's done casting, even the criticism of Loda's illusion micro.
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Well, it's just my opinion. Someone asked why I disliked his casting and I answered. I'm sorry you feel so strongly.
 
Declarius said:
Explaining from a pro perspective is annoying when your comments stink of an underlying "I could build/play this better, why are you playing wrong". Especially considering his team isn't even there and the players he is critiquing have proven to be better than him.
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I don't know what kind of caster you are looking for. Do you prefer Eternalenvy who just shits on everyone including his co-caster?

580140_528603413867030_947086673_n.jpg

http://www.twitch.tv/beyondthesummit/b/407463147?t=165m58s

970650_529589037101801_938365751_n.jpg
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shira said:
I don't know what kind of caster you are looking for. Do you prefer Eternalenvy who just shits on everyone including his co-caster?
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Huh. Me criticizing Aui as a caster doesn't disqualify me from liking other casters. Everyone but Blaze is fine. Frankly, your argument seems dismissive and doesn't seem to make any sense.

Edit: I've also never even watched a game Eternalenvy casted nor do I know who he is.
 
la_briola said:
Aui is great.
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^^

his voice/accent certainly isn't ideal, but the knowledge he drops is worth it. As opposed to luminous who has the same issue but without the knowledge.

Don't get the people bashing him for being critical, what is an analyst supposed to do if not be critical? Also if analyst can only criticize people worse than them, might as well stop having commentary at all.
 
Declarius said:
Huh. Me criticizing Aui as a caster doesn't disqualify me from liking other casters. Everyone but Blaze is fine. Frankly, your argument seems dismissive and doesn't seem to make any sense.

Edit: I've also never even watched a game Eternalenvy casted nor do I know who he is.
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no biggie,

I just like to pimp my boy EE and post that gif I made over and over.
iRCNllmh57FYd.gif

 
iamblades said:
^^

his voice/accent certainly isn't ideal, but the knowledge he drops is worth it. As opposed to luminous who has the same issue but without the knowledge.

Don't get the people bashing him for being critical, what is an analyst supposed to do if not be critical? Also if analyst can only criticize people worse than them, might as well stop having commentary at all.
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There's a difference between being critical and this

SteveWinwood said:
I have no problem understanding him.

This is my problem with him.

It's not "this is an interesting build, sometimes other people will build this hero this way and here's why." when aui does it it's "i really don't like this build he's doing, it's bad, he should do what i do." Aui I don't care what your phantom lancer build is. You're not winning g1 and all of these people have been more successful than you.
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Does the replay search within the client not work? It doesn't seem to be filtering based on the hero I typed in, and if I check the tournament box, it never returns anything.
 
It will be interesting to see what they do to the bottle crow, if anything at all. Its so prevalent now. Icefrog does have a habit of nerfing things that become "required."
 
Archie said:
ICEFRAUUUUDDDDD

I think 6.78 will hit next weekend. It'll give teams 3 weeks to practice until Dreamhack and 2 months to practice until TI3.
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No more bottle crowing, pinoy dota RIP











again

finalboss2 said:
wooooooow.

i'm really looking fowards to this actually. i see huge battles and warding be focused on rune control if this is true.
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How about some free wards then. If rune control is going to be quintessential you already have millions of trenchers not bothering with them. How are people going to be re-edumacated.
 
shira said:
How about some free wards then. If rune control is going to be quintessential you already have millions of trenchers not bothering with them. How are people going to be re-edumacated.
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Trenchers don't bottle crow.
 
Lots of multiple bottle users per team strats and even some teams using two couriers to bottle crow started to become very prominent in the pro scene lately, not sure why or how its going to be addressed though. Here's hoping for some Mirana and Slardar love in the patch. I agree with everyone speculating the patch will hit after eastern qualifiers finish so there's time before dreamhack for teams to practice.
 
Filth said:
If you afked for 4 minutes to eat while playing antimage you already lost
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yeah i guess you really need to farm with him huh, not that good with last hitting i'm afraid. Dota 2 and eating are never a good mix in my opinion, the other night i had dinner while playing and i almost choke to death with a piece of steak lol. I had to literally pull that steak out of my mouth in order to breath again, kinda fucked up if you think about it.
 
Oh yeah, Bloodstone Maguns, best build.

Grabbed a casual point booster early on, really looked like we were going to lose, so rather then keep trying to get a refresher, I just turned my Arcane Boot's/Perservince/Casual Point into BS so I could at least heal the team when I died.
 
Nirvana said:
This is exactly how I felt for a long time playing Dota. It wasn't until I played heavy support for a group of friends who are high tier players and I started playing against people who would punish every wrong move instantly and with people who would correct every mistake I made, that I got better. I think support is the best role to start out on, it's just as difficult to get good at as all of the other roles, but there is more margin for error, as your deaths don't matter quite as much; not that this gives you a license to feed...which I did... a lot.

The first thing you need to do is get really comfortable with at least 2 or 3 heroes, so that you aren't totally lost when your hero gets picked by the other team. Positioning is something I didn't learn properly until I started playing initiate heroes (heroes that start teamfights) like Sandking and eventually Magnus.

Sandking is a great hero to learn early. He has an instant stun, which is fairly easy to land, a brief invis to get you out of bad situations you may get into and his ulti can be game-changing if you land it properly. He's a hero that teaches you about positioning, because you have to make sure you are slightly outside of enemy sight/stun range before initiating and he's a support as well, so he teaches you about core item builds and when to pick up items such as wards and courier for your team. Try him out, see if you like him and make some plays; that's my recommendation at least, as he's easy to contribute with. Just make sure you learn how to use blink dagger with his ultimate once you get comfortable enough with him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRVYQjwwML4

That vid will give you a decent idea of how to play the hero and teach you his fantastic initiating skills with blink dagger.

As far as knowing what to do and when to do it goes, I think everyone is constantly learning that one. Play with teammates who you can voice chat with, random pubs wont teach you how to coordinate properly with your team. Make a decision to go on a hero with your lane partner for instance, do some math, say 'yep, they're low enough that our attacks will definitely kill them' and go for it. Defending towers is important, losing too many towers is how you lose the game, not just losing team fights. The most important part of every decision you make, is carrying a TOWN PORTAL SCROLL. Always have a TP in your inventory, if you have a spare 135 gold, buy one, always. This allows you to get to towers to defend and travel to teamfights you are far away from quickly.

Also remember you can buy TP scrolls, boots and other assorted items from the sideshops in lane, which saves you time and keeps you in lane.

Item builds are really important too. Find a good core item build for a hero (lots of guides online, some are bad, some are good) and make sure you always know what item you are going for next. Don't be afraid to adjust your build though. Taking a lot of harass in-lane? Get a magic wand. Getting picked off by their high-DPS autoattacking carry, get Ghost Sceptre. Getting stunned out of every fight? Get BKB. The list goes on and you will learn item builds as you get better. The other thing is starting builds. Don't buy boots first and don't buy bottle first (there are very occasional situations where you can, but not worth mentioning here). Always get regen, 1 tango, 1 salve and 3 iron branches is the most all around item build that generally works for all heroes. If you are mid, get 1 tango and 3 iron wood branches, so you can buy your bottle faster. I wouldn't advise you play a mid role just yet though if you're a beginner, as it can be a difficult lane to play successfully. Why iron wood branches you ask? Iron branches are the most cost effective item in the game, and it's far better to get 3 of them than a slippers of agility, or a mantle of intelligence or a gauntlets of strength,as you get the same stats for less money and you can turn the 3 branches into a magic wand later (which is good on basically every hero and gives you a burst heal that can get you out of bad situations).

This vid talks about starting item builds and why they are important. It's long though, but you can skim through and get the gist of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k6XM4MlYts

Purge does lots of videos helping new players out, so watching him could be a good idea as well. Watching pro games is good also, as you will see interesting strats and item builds and fantastic play and positioning that you can learn from.

If you are really stuck for things to do and neither team is pushing or fighting, but it's past the laning phase, farm jungle. Even if you are a support, gold is always important (unless you are taking it from your carry, don't do that shit) so killing jungle creeps for gold/exp is great. Also, buy wards every 6 minutes if you have the gold and are playing a support role. Don't play carry until you are confident in your skillz bro.

Seriously. Don't play carry, we don't need another carry, those guys picked up Drow and Sniper....don't pick a carry...really? You picked Nightstalker? You want to lane him? Oh come on man. Sorry just venting...

Hope that essay helped a bit...

Good luck!
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Wow thank you for this; it helps a quite a bit.

Des0lar said:
Play with other gaffers who can teach you. Easiest thing to do is get someone who tells you what to do and WHY you should do it.

You can PM as well if you like to
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I'm guessing there's a GAF group in-game? I'll have to check it out.

Thank you both!
 
Hylian7 said:
I'm calling bullshit. That basically runs you out of options if you get harassed out of lane mid. I certainly hope that doesn't happen.
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It would also drastically limit the viable pool of mid heroes to those with good rune control or those that don't need bottle. Heroes like Magnus and DK would basically disappear from competitive play.

The time the courier spends being tied up ferrying the bottle is more than enough to punish bottle crowing, and it gives more chances for courier snipes. There's a reason that the pinoy teams that do heavy bottle crowing buy multiple couriers, it's because you have to. A single person bottle crowing can use up like 80% of the couriers time.

I don't see any possible justification for the nerf, it's not like there is some unbeatable bottle crow strat ruining the game or something. The amount of time and resources put into bottle crowing is a tradeoff that means you can't do other things, which is why few successful teams rely on it.

Without bottle crowing you would end up with a lot of situations where the losing mid just gets steamrolled and the game snowballs out of control and you end up with a lot of one sided stomps decided solely on who won mid lane. That doesn't sound interesting at all to me.
 
Hope thats real. Rune control is so much easier than 1 million APM dedicated to bottle crowing

bottle crowing also allows mids to just play like little girls


I doubt it is though.
 
iamblades said:
^^

his voice/accent certainly isn't ideal, but the knowledge he drops is worth it. As opposed to luminous who has the same issue but without the knowledge.

Don't get the people bashing him for being critical, what is an analyst supposed to do if not be critical? Also if analyst can only criticize people worse than them, might as well stop having commentary at all.
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Agreed. Everyone on Dota TV chat was trashing him for his stupid comments. His constant us of 'next level' and 'previous level' was so irritating. Not to mention he basically talks shit on anyone who doesn't strictly follow the meta and then has to backtrack like crazy when the play pays off.
 
I'm pretty high up in matchmaking, so shit games are not all that common, but I just spent 6 hours basically struggling in one game after another trying to keep my team from self destructing.

Also met my first actual griefer, and by that I don't mean someone who gets pissed and decides to feed. No, this guy instantly picks Kotl, rushed a force staff and recalls people to a cliff until we all disable help from him and then he disconnects.

Now I have a wicked headache, it's late, and I'm pissed. Haven't been this angry at Dota since my HON days.

But don't mind me, pretty much just venting so I can go to sleep knowing other people are sharing my misery.
 
Maybe it'll just be the courier can only give you two charges. That'll be enough to destroy the prevalence of it, but still be able to use it in some circumstances.
 
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