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Dota 2 |OT| To Hell and Back and Back to Hell

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BeesEight

Member
Regardless of whether some heroes who are rarely/never picked in competitive are actually viable there, I see no reason why every hero needs to be balanced around competitive play. There's over 100 heroes in the pool, more than enough to provide a varied metagame. If a handful of them are stomping pubs but never used in competitive, the game as a whole is healthier than it would be if those pubstompers were buffed. As long as the majority of the pool is balanced around competitive play it isn't an issue.

Ideally the pubstompers would see nerfs to their pub dominance combined with buffs to their competitive viability, but easier said than done.

Except you can't balance around pub play because pub play is impossible to predict. Pubbers, essentially, aren't playing the game properly. They'll do whatever they want with little regard towards strategy or team play.

Take, for example, Spirit Breaker. Here's a hero that thrives on early ganking and aggression. People complain that he's overpowered because they refuse to ward, respond to ganks and carry tp scrolls. So if we reduce the aggressiveness of these early gankers then we push pub play towards longer, farming oriented games.

Which leads us to the other favourite complaint from pubbers. Phantom Lancer is, to many, a blight on the game. But he's a hero that requires lots of space and time to farm up and be unstoppable. Heroes like Spirit Breaker by their own design will put the needed pressure on the Phantom Lancer to make him irrelevant.

And that isn't even addressing the fact that most pubs won't buy things like mek, wards, dust, gems and other simple counters to invisibility or other issues. Pubs will run horrible team compositions that have no real chance of winning then complain about one or two heroes on the other team as if they were the reason they lost. There's no rhyme or reason to a regular game and trying to balance around that will just lead to knee jerk nerfs that completely ruin the viability of heroes for no other reason than a bunch of players can't parse the actual culprits for their losses.

So... yeah. I think even pubstompers should see buffs if they are, overall, weaker heroes compared to the rest of the cast. Especially since most pubstompers seem to only do well because of a lack of complexity in their hero design than any actual real imbalance.
 

Arkanius

Member
Ok objective accomplished
I was afraid of Nightstalker for no reason. It's so much fun

OJ4hoSf.jpg
 
Apparently all Premier League tickets are removed from the shop.

Which means the items and sets that came with the tickets are effectively retired until they fix this payment issue. New immortals incoming?
 

Arkanius

Member
If you manage to time your ulti and be effective during nighttime he can be really good.

You mean extending the night?
It was so much fun extending the duration of the rape train.

And when day time came and they thought they were safe. BAM. Ulti
 

Deadly

Member
There was some payment dispute with the ticket and Valve pulled it. Unless that dispute is fixed, the tournament will likely be delayed or not broadcasted on DotaTV. Someone didn't want to pay the contributors of the set or something.
From what I understand TPL withheld the payment that belonged to the person who created the set? Damn if it's like that good on Valve to ban TPL, such a dick move. Shame for the set creator though, his set doesn't get released AND he doesn't get his money...
 
It's too bad for them really. Maybe they'll toss the sets onto the store, no TPL involved at all, and sell them as regular items, putting the tournament nonsense behind them and at least making a little bit of deserved money.

This will also probably lead to every tournament item being accepted on the workshop, so Valve can directly pay the contributor for the item, rather than going through the tournament company.

I'm sure Valve will figure something out. They're not ones to leave contributors without payments.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
Drow does not play the same role as Viper. Drow is a monstrous pusher, can solo Roshan early, and shits out raw damage. Viper is anti carry and a solo lane hero. He's fairly tanky and puts out decent damage. If you're playing them the same, you're doing it wrong.
How would you play viper solo outside of mid?
 

J2d

Member
I'm surprised at the opinions on Drow, I'm a complete noob and only play limited pick but she's one of the first to get picked every game and I always do well with her.

Edit: why is the match making so slow in this game btw, is it because I have a turd rating or something? I have to wait pretty much exactly 5 mins every time.
 

shira

Member
From what I understand TPL withheld the payment that belonged to the person who created the set? Damn if it's like that good on Valve to ban TPL, such a dick move. Shame for the set creator though, his set doesn't get released AND he doesn't get his money...

LOL you don't think dondon can erase the TPL symbol and valve will not fasttrack that into the store?
 

Anteo

Member
I'm surprised at the opinions on Drow, I'm a complete noob and only play limited pick but she's one of the first to get picked every game and I always do well with her.

Edit: why is the match making so slow in this game btw, is it because I have a turd rating or something? I have to wait pretty much exactly 5 mins every time.

Depends on the time of the day I guess.. In usa west I need like 4-6 mins at times like this. At night I need 2-3 mins tops

Also, on Drow. She is really really squishy, and her recent nerf makes her really bad against heroes that can close the distance fast. Considering that most heroes that gank are good at closing the distance or disabling at a long enough range, her dmg output will be shit in no time. If she does get disabled, she will die pretty fast cause: No escape mechanism, not enough hp to surviv. not a single skill that allows her to live longer.

Gankers like Night Stalker, Spirit Breaker, Nyx Assasin, Queen of Pain, Clock, Pudge will kill her in seconds, supports like Lion and Lina can combo her to death by themselves and even carries like Phantom Assasin. Riki, AntiMage can get their way with her early. However, if left alone for enough time, like any other carry she will be strong, but unlike other carries, she needs to invest gold to counter her weaknesses and even then it may not be enough.
 

Trasher

Member
labor day no patch

like 1.09 or anbokr(same person) said his cast points are awful. I wouldn't mind seeing his night vision increased as well. Maybe make it so his E can be activated for 1800 aoe flying vision or something. It's just really annoying to not be able to cast rupture because of its garbage cast point and then lose vision. I don't like his proposed reworks but I think those are old, rupture is pretty unique and should stay.

where has anuxi been I haven't seen her post anything for awhile. nvm looks its only been 5 days, this is stalker territory. I just miss the pretty sets :(.

EZB? Is that you?
 

Hylian7

Member
I really with Nature's Prophet would get a model update, but it probably won't happen because he has a billion cosmetics.

Axe could use one too.
 

Atlantis

Member
I'm surprised at the opinions on Drow, I'm a complete noob and only play limited pick but she's one of the first to get picked every game and I always do well with her.

Drow reigns supreme in low level games, but once people get more experienced her dominance disappears pretty quickly like Riki, Sniper, ect. She's also pretty easy to play so that helps her popularity.

I'm still at the level where she's picked within seconds almost every game. It's fun to rain on a Drow picker's parade.
 
I really with Nature's Prophet would get a model update, but it probably won't happen because he has a billion cosmetics.

Axe could use one too.
More so than a model update, he needs a new portrait. I think a new portrait with better lighting and a better angle will make him good as new. His portrait is pretty bad, a relic of old portrait ideas. New portraits are a lot better, much more dynamic, interesting lighting, and better poses. Prophet's makes him seem almost washed out and pretty rigid, even if his in-game model is very bright and interesting.

Axe needs his model smoothed out and done better. His muscles are just strange looking, especially his shoulders. This could probably be pretty easily done without messing up any cosmetic
 

Lotto

Member
Drow and Sniper are so garbage and underpowered, might as well take them out of the game at this point. There's is no hope that either of them will EVER outcarry any legit carry on the opposing team. A fuckin underfarmed clockwerk can 1on1 either of them at almost any point in the game. Both are useless early, mid and late game and make the game basically 4on5 the moment they are picked. Like, I feel there is such a significant gap between those two and and the rest of the hero pool. I can't think of a fucking thing either of them is good at to save my life.

edit: I suppose they can take towers reasonably well. Provided absolutely nobody shows up to instagib them for free.

http://dotabuff.com/matches/288224017

Was watching Dread's stream a few days ago and his Sniper was beastly. Of course he had some great support to back him up but his positioning was always so good. Sniper > PL
 

Snowdrift

Member
Chen is so good! I don't know why it took so long to appreciate this hero. Nukes, slows, split push, free fountain trips, big heals, minions, early ganks and good farming. What is not to like?

Side note: Apparently you can send Spirit Breaker to your well if you teleport a teammate back while SB is ulting.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Chen is so good! I don't know why it took so long to appreciate this hero. Nukes, slows, split push, free fountain trips, big heals, minions, early ganks and good farming. What is not to like?

Side note: Apparently you can send Spirit Breaker to your well if you teleport a teammate back while SB is ulting.

Its hilarious but two out of the three games I've ever played Chen (several months apart no less) due to various laning weirdness I ended up taking him solo mid, maxing Penitence and Test of Faith first, and kicking ass. It wouldn't work in any kind of pro strat of course but it was a blast.
 

ViviOggi

Member
Has anyone actually seen somebody use the free item drop gift items from the store?

I got the small one from dota2wh to try it out some time, equipped it and ended up accidentally pressing the action button at the beginning of a random match (the guy who got the item turned out to be the worst rager of the game).

Other than that I haven't even seen casters or streamers use them.
 

SamVimes

Member
Chen is so good! I don't know why it took so long to appreciate this hero. Nukes, slows, split push, free fountain trips, big heals, minions, early ganks and good farming. What is not to like?

Side note: Apparently you can send Spirit Breaker to your well if you teleport a teammate back while SB is ulting.
I'm pretty sure you need to predict it and he has to be stupid enough to ult the guy getting sent back. I don't think you can do it on reaction.
 

Vaporak

Member
i feel like letting a team play with 3 standins is kinda fucking stupid

Allowing stand ins at all that aren't from a pre submitted and approved roster is the most baffling thing about dota tournaments to me. In any other game I know of, the normal course of dota affairs would be considered cheating and grounds for being banned from the tournament organization.
 
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