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Dota 2 |OT12| A Safe Place For Your Sociopathic Behaviors.
- Thread starter Dreams-Visions
- Start date
Shuggananas
Banned
But tusk's penguin was the best cosmetic to come out in 2015
Regardless of whether ES is "ready" for CM, it seems to me like IF doesn't know what to do with him. Put him in CM provisionally so we can collect data on why he'd break CM so hard, or if he's just a pub terror. I'm sure pros have made it clear why he's broken, but we won't know for sure until he's out there. If he's unstoppable, just go for a rework. But it'd be weird if he got another rework without ever seeing competitive play.
So add him to CM in 6.86 for the qualifiers, with a b version ready to go that excludes him if he's the monster everyone says he is. I just don't think we have enough live data.
So add him to CM in 6.86 for the qualifiers, with a b version ready to go that excludes him if he's the monster everyone says he is. I just don't think we have enough live data.
The model should be optimized first and foremost for Dota 2 fans who want pretty hats for their heroes, and second for the artists creating the hats. Fuck traders, fuck the ridiculous prices for ultra-rare parts, fuck the RNG lottery.
Pureauthor
Member
why is Valve
so
completely
SHIT
at running their own fucking hat economy
so
completely
SHIT
at running their own fucking hat economy
rakkadakka
Member
Valve doesn't care about how good they are at running this shit.
This is what happens when your anarcho communist friends become successful and don't know what the fuck they are doing.
This is what happens when your anarcho communist friends become successful and don't know what the fuck they are doing.
Dreams-Visions
Member
uh why? that doesn't even make sense. if you don't want to participate and rock the default items, then do so. fucking over the economy fucks over artists, modelers, traders, collectors (like myself), trading websites, betting websites and ultimately Valve themselves as people stop buying the shit that helps kept the "free to play" model afloat.
they need to bring back the Greek guy. or just look at their economic model from TF2 in 2011 and take fucking notes. or hell, they can just look at the economic model from Dota2 in 2012 and go back to that. it wasn't perfect but it wasn't this watered down, value-less shit either.
I disagree. they knew what the fuck they were doing for years. they let too many people go and lost their way over the last 1.5 years or so, it seems.
Shuggananas
Banned
Because of traders, scammers, all that shitty scummy market
Monochromaticx
Member
but there is alot more scamming because people have to gift their items instead of using the offcial trade system
Valve added the email authenticating for trades and other security improvements since then too
Shuggananas
Banned
Well gifting is not the intended way of trading, can't blame valve for that rofl
Of course you'll get scammed if you try to "trade" via gifts with some random ledditor
Of course you'll get scammed if you try to "trade" via gifts with some random ledditor
Dreams-Visions
Member
throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the appropriate response.
the fact that items were easily tradeable and worth trading and the fact that item rarity actually meant something (remember when Mythical actually meant something special?) is part of the reason why any items we have had any value at all. there were certainly some shitty traders and lots of russians asking for 2 rares for their shitty uncommon...but I'd take that system with those monkeys over the watered-down, lifeless arrangement we have now where almost everything is worth less than $2 after a week, where we have no functional store in game, and where literally everything is locked behind RNG.
Pretty sure you can blame Valve for that. Either for the lack of foresight or for the bad series of ideas.
Pureauthor
Member
Well I guess we should want Dota 2 to be dead too, because of the griefers, racists, assholes, and general dregs of humanity that infest the game.
Let's put it like this, he is Tusk 2.0 in his current form.
He does too much with zero items and a couple of levels. Ranged initiation, AoE stun & AoE silence on a low cd, massive pain in the ass to lock down and force away from a lane. Without a defensive tri-lane it's impossible for your carry to farm against him. And don't get me started on that bullshit self-refreshing ult that's basically an AoE Finger.
He is not ready for CM.
edit: just remebered his "not-OP-at-all" aghs upgrade...
Dreams-Visions
Member
He may never be ready for CM, tbqh. there's simply too much control from range in a single package.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
I think the rocks are the reason he'll always be too versatile, they add an extra dynamic to every single skill of his.
You can kick allies/enemies but ALSO you can kick rocks to stun
You can pull allies out of danger but ALSO you can pull rocks to silence
That kinda thing seems so hard to balance without making him garbage.
I don't disagree.
But when I say "we don't have enough data," I mean we don't have a good indication of how to bring him in line with the rest of the cast with his current toolset. So my suggestion to add him to CM isn't to say he's fine, but because I think they should give balancing him one last shot, with new data from professional play, before they rework him.
I get that "testing him out" in a professional scene is strange because there's money on the line, but with the new Majors system Valve has created an environment without too much time to "test" things in low-stakes environments outside of pub play and weird tournaments/scrims. I would hate for one of my favorite characters to be reworked without a proper chance.
I had a few ideas in the past:
- For kick: rock stuns the first enemy hero and stops (similar to his roll). Stun duration is variable depending on the distance (like PotM arrow).
- For pull: rock silences but does no damage. Silence duration gets -1s.
- Ult needs some serious damage nerf, maybe 50% of what it does now.
You make a valid point and I understand your point of view but do you think he would see too much play? I have very few doubts that he would be the first ban in every game, unless the new patch had an insane amount of fotm heroes that allowed him to slip through.
Dreams-Visions
Member
but is that ES even worth picking? what is the payoff for the effort involved? icefrog likes assigning extra damage/potential based on degree of hero difficulty.
Shuggananas
Banned
btw 6.86 in 3 days
star wars in 5
star wars in 5
These last few patches seem to prove this point wrong.
- Troll, Sniper, Jugg, Axe in 6.83
- SF, Lina, Huskar, Gyro, Slardar, BH, Doom in 6.84/5
None of these have particularly high skill ceiling and have very low skill floor.
Anyway, I don't think Tusk/Slardar/Dazzle/WW/(so many others tbh) are picked because of his damage potential. It's the control/sustain/utility that bring them over the edge and ES excels in that department. So yeah, I think his skill set make him a worthy pick regardless of his potential damage output.
But you can blame Valve. The reason people use gifting for trading is because of the damn trading restrictions.
That's a legitimate concern, and I'm not sure how to work around it if he's in a patch for test purposes.
Dreams-Visions
Member
sure it's possible to go patch to patch and select some that aren't complicated mechanically. that doesn't mean he doesn't like to reward heroes that have a higher degree of mechanical difficulty with more damage/strength to balance out their reason for existing and to justify picking them at all.
see: meepo, druid, chen, earth spirit, tinker, nature's prophet, etc. have all had their days in the sun.
and of course you are correct that supports are not picked to deal damage.
Gully State
Member
I watched the Slacks interview with RTZ and Universe last night. What's this Abaddon meta at the higher tiers that RTZ bitched about? Off the reddit comments, it seems like one dude that just managed to play offlane abba from 5K-7K. I'm curious why you don't see it in the lower tiers...I mean it's not like aba is super hard to play.
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
You don't? It's been a while for me but I've seen it here and there, I've even had success with it myself, and no he's not that hard to play.
I feel bad for workshop artists. They've been continually doing great work, but my interest in hats died even before Reborn. Valva has made a complete mess out of the entire hat economy in almost every way they possibly could have.
Gully State
Member
I'm sub 3K right now. It's SF/Windranger/Tusk/Jungle LC every game. Not that meta matters much here. Or laning phase, or mid game for that matter.
I want to yell at the people at Valve who thought it was ok to strip particle effects from approved sets. I'm sure those content creators lost a lot of sales because of it.
okay I like anuxi, and feel bad for workshop artists, but this post is awful. none of these "solutions" would achieve anything significant, I'm not even sure it's possible to fix. but valve need to hire some damn good economists and psychologists, because the problems run much deeper than what's discussed in anuxi's post
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
Really informative post by Anuxi.
ES is ez to fix. The only really problematic part he has now is the ulti. Without the absurd damage and duration on the ulti, he is just a pure utility hero (long range stun, silence, reverse force staff to save allies, high mobility). Right now he is the ultimate utility hero that also deal TONS of damage in teamfights. Just decrease the ulti duration from 6 to 4 and he's fixed i guarantee it. And i HATE that fucking hero.
Monochromaticx
Member
Enigma waaaaat
LB VP vs Min bo3
LB Ehome vs DC bo3
UB finals VG vs EG bo3
LB VP vs Min bo3
LB Ehome vs DC bo3
UB finals VG vs EG bo3
rakkadakka
Member
I doubt letting people go is a huge issue unless there are some key people who have left that I don't know about. I'd be surprised if they don't have the pick of the litter when it comes to hiring.
Judging from the outside the public facing issues at Valve is a work environment that cannot scale with the growth of the company. Combine that with no real financial need to perform and you get the results most people complain about.
It allows them the space to completely remake Portal 2 when it wasn't up to snuff but it also means if people aren't "inspired" to do PR or community outreach it just never happens.
Shuggananas
Banned
man these casters just aren't funny
Shuggananas
Banned
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
That's because Moon is the worst English speaker in his team
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
A dime short of a dollar on whatever he used to say all the time
Gentle Rodriguez
Member
The thing I never liked about Ayesee was how much he dominated the mic, this wouldn't be a problem if he was knowledgeable but he isn't. Even when he had a knowledgeable analyst by his side he'd keep talking nonsense and not let them get a word in.
It's okay dude, you don't need to do everything, just know your limits. I have a feeling he's in love with his own voice.
It's okay dude, you don't need to do everything, just know your limits. I have a feeling he's in love with his own voice.
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