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[Glass Shark]

Exactly

Nobody at valve thinks that having a community manager would be valuable... because they think that communication is bad... because they're stupid.

I'm sure they look at how much money they're making and justify the decision that way. And I'm sure they do make a ton of money despite the general lack of communication. But I genuinely believe they could make even more money if they communicated better.

 

[Haly]

I don't fault them for thinking that. In how many games did the community managers actually do anything substantial except draw the fire away from the developers and onto themselves? They're usually sacrificial lambs, and their vain attempts at placating their playerbase were usually written off as diversionary tactics anyway.

 

[Randdalf]

Heroes take a long time to develop, longer than people would think, the reason why we saw such a rapid release cycle for heroes before the game was "released" was because they started making all those heroes at around the same time (i.e. when they started making the game). A lot of the heroes since Meepo have been worked on from scratch, so to speak.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

A poor instance of communication does not mean you need to hire a community manager. If somebody at Valve thought a community manager would have been valuable they would have done it already.

Their fault. If you really think this is the best outcome, when we can directly compare it to their competitors (Riot) example, I don't know what to tell you.

They should also get a good Support Staff for Steam too.

 

[TUSR]

I don't fault them for thinking that. In how many games did the community managers actually do anything substantial except draw the fire away from the developers and onto themselves? They're usually sacrificial lambs, and their vain attempts at placating their playerbase were usually written off as diversionary tactics anyway.

rip ghostcrawler

 

[Haly]

Lol Ghostcrawler. And he's now working at Riot, doing the same thing he did in WoW.

He must have a really high tolerance for idiocy to be able to sustain this kind of career for a decade.

 

[Emerson]

Being serious here, what troubles me about the situation (assuming August ends without the patch) is the implications of how tone-deaf Valve really are. When they said aiming for the end of August, a lot of people, including me, thought/hoped they meant they thought they might be done mid-month, giving themselves 2 weeks or so for delays. They know they're prone to delays, why give a deadline that you'd literally have to execute perfectly to meet? Doesn't make any sense to me.

And honestly if they let August pass without at least making a blog post and saying something, they deserve whatever outrage they get. There's really no excuse to not do something that simple.

Personally, I don't give 2 shits about Techies. To me it's less about Techies and more about signs of progress. While the flow of items they can sell you never slows, actual updates to the core game (balance, heroes) seem to get slower and slower every quarter. That's just how it feels, and perception is reality for most people...especially when the company does as poor a job at communicating as Valve does. It's been...what? About 7 months since the last hero got added to Dota 2 (Terroblade)? Think about that. That mothafucka came out during New Bloom. We haven't seen a new hero released or any visual updates for any of the many who need it. This is all without even mentioning the many bugs in the gameplay and cosmetics. Again, it's not about any particular hero; it's about the feeling that the game is losing or has lost any semblance of importance to Valve.

At the moment, we're poised to get Techies and probably some bug fixes sooner rather than later. Which is cool. But the outlook makes me worry. At this pace, we won't see another hero until...March or April of 2014? Maybe one before the end of the year again. Or otherwise, 2 - 4 heroes/year when we used to get 1-4 per month. It's frustrating.

Speaking of, I've given up entirely on the hope that Valve would learn to communicate better. I expected after DireTide we'd see a new-found prioritization of communication with the masses of fans. But nope, bad habits die very, very hard. As many have said, Valve needs a community manager in the worst way.

I agree with you completely and it's my general issue as well. Just not much content really coming out at all. People point to Spring Cleaning and Overflowing Compendium everytime I say this but let's be honest, those patches weren't exactly filled to the brim with new content. Both felt a little light if you weigh them as the kind of big patches you might expect when they take several months to produce.

As far as the bolded, I actually disagree somewhat there. Sure they put out some new chests once in a while, but other cosmetic content has been nearly nonexistent. When is the last time new sets, single items, announcers, HUDs etc. of any worth were put into the store for purchase? And with the exception of some TI4 cosmetics, every chest generally feels less inspired than the last.

If they had never said anything everybody would be totally chill right now..

Let's not kid ourselves. The community was already starting to rumble 3 weeks ago when they made that blog post. Things only settled down because they said that. If they had never made it things would not be pretty right now IMO.

 

[Thermite]

I hate to be the one to say it but it does say "We’re aiming for a release by the end of August." which doesn't necessary guarantee it will.

If it doesn't hit then I'd imagine that is the last time we will be given estimated dates.

What a life

 

[Quesa]

I'm gonna be out for the weekend so I'm gonna miss the start of Seasons If you guys will have me come monday, I'm game though.

 

[Ketch]

I don't fault them for thinking that. In how many games did the community managers actually do anything substantial except draw the fire away from the developers and onto themselves? They're usually sacrificial lambs, and their vain attempts at placating their playerbase were usually written off as diversionary tactics anyway.

It's gotten a lot better for a lot of companies the last couple of years. Look at blizzard's recent stuff with diablo 3. Also checkout Warframes community management stuff, it is unbelievably good for the size of their team. and I guess also riot's stuff has been pretty good, although I haven't seen it for myself.

Regardless, anything would be better then nothing. Just like "aiming for the end of august" is better then total silence.

Let's not kid ourselves. The community was already starting to rumble 3 weeks ago when they made that blog post. Things only settled down because they said that. If they had never made it things would not be pretty right now IMO.

I was being sarcastic, I thought it was obvious. sry.

OT:

I'm gonna be out for the weekend so I'm gonna miss the start of Seasons If you guys will have me come monday, I'm game though.

Let's play seasons together! I want to go on hardcore though. as a monk.

 

[TUSR]

Lol Ghostcrawler. And he's now working at Riot, doing the same thing he did in WoW.

He must have a really high tolerance for idiocy to be able to sustain this kind of career for a decade.

hes homogenizing champions like he did classes?

i thought all champs already had a skill shot, stun, and escape?

 

[Glass Shark]

I don't fault them for thinking that. In how many games did the community managers actually do anything substantial except draw the fire away from the developers and onto themselves? They're usually sacrificial lambs, and their vain attempts at placating their playerbase were usually written off as diversionary tactics anyway.

"Valve needs a community manager" is thinking way too small. They need an entirely new communication strategy. I'm really impressed with what Blizzard has been doing lately with live streams and dev interviews and frequent updates about what is coming out and when. Riot already does a pretty good job of it, too.

 

[Demoli]

Heroes take a long time to develop, longer than people would think, the reason why we saw such a rapid release cycle for heroes before the game was "released" was because they started making all those heroes at around the same time (i.e. when they started making the game). A lot of the heroes since Meepo have been worked on from scratch, so to speak.

They aren't making techies from scratch.

Techies is the oldest dota 1 hero yet to add, and one of the oldest period.

In fact, the concept behind ANY yet to add that's not oracle is at the very least 2+ years old. All they have to do is a model and code the abilities.

Making a hero from scratch is something like the teased monkey king that everybody thought was gonna release with the next dota 1 patch. But since icefrog now considers dota 2 the main focus, it will probably be YEARS to get a brand new hero where, even in dota 1, you'd see an average of 2 heroes a year.

tl,dr: Valve are lazy, they are incompetent at communicating, they deserve any backlash they get.

 

[Hylian7]

What? I call fuckin bullshit. They take suggestions and make changes regularly that originate from their Beta testers.

Also, there is no reasonable way you could honestly believe that Valve's perpetual silence and communication incompetence is better than Riot's weekly/bi-weekly interactions with the community, commentary on changes (and why!) and updates via their many blog posts.

It's just not possible.

There was that video from Steam Dev days that explains it perfectly. Sometimes promising things is a bad idea because of... Unforeseen consequences...

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

Being serious here, what troubles me about the situation (assuming August ends without the patch) is the implications of how tone-deaf Valve really are. When they said aiming for the end of August, a lot of people, including me, thought/hoped they meant they thought they might be done mid-month, giving themselves 2 weeks or so for delays. They know they're prone to delays, why give a deadline that you'd literally have to execute perfectly to meet? Doesn't make any sense to me.

And honestly if they let August pass without at least making a blog post and saying something, they deserve whatever outrage they get. There's really no excuse to not do something that simple.



I agree with you completely and it's my general issue as well. Just not much content really coming out at all. People point to Spring Cleaning and Overflowing Compendium everytime I say this but let's be honest, those patches weren't exactly filled to the brim with new content. Both felt a little light if you weigh them as the kind of big patches you might expect when they take several months to produce.

As far as the bolded, I actually disagree somewhat there. Sure they put out some new chests once in a while, but other cosmetic content has been nearly nonexistent. When is the last time new sets, single items, announcers, HUDs etc. of any worth were put into the store for purchase? And with the exception of some TI4 cosmetics, every chest generally feels less inspired than the last.



Let's not kid ourselves. The community was already starting to rumble 3 weeks ago when they made that blog post. Things only settled down because they said that. If they had never made it things would not be pretty right now IMO.

But they did show us the changelog and what was coming on Spring Cleaning like 1-2 wekks before the patch (or was it days?), which is the way it should have been, yet 7 months later they are back to their pre-diretide silence. I don't remember a single person being angry or something similar when they did that before the Spring Cleaning patch.


And let's face it, Valve has it easy. When the patch hits people will forget about this, until they do it again, which they will.

There was that video from Steam Dev days that explains it perfectly. Sometimes promising things is a bad idea because of... Unforeseen consequences...

So no one in the videogame industry should announce anything because reasons.

 

[Glass Shark]

When they said aiming for the end of August, a lot of people, including me, thought/hoped they meant they thought they might be done mid-month, giving themselves 2 weeks or so for delays. They know they're prone to delays, why give a deadline that you'd literally have to execute perfectly to meet? Doesn't make any sense to me.

It's funny cuz valve time lulz

 

[rakkadakka]

Valve doesn't have great CM because they don't have dedicated positions.

If you could pick to work on some cool new project or deal a rabid fanbase.. what would you choose?

 

[Ketch]

tl,dr: Valve are lazy, they are incompetent at communicating, they deserve any backlash they get.

I dont think its fair to call them lazy. They may be understaffed, or perfectionist to a detriment, or just mismanaged (considering their lack of management)

So no one in the videogame industry should announce anything because reasons.

or you shouldn't communicate with your audience because its hard.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

I dont think its fair to call them lazy. They may be understaffed, or perfectionist to a detriment, or just mismanaged (considering their lack of management)

Their "lack of bosses" might be the cause of mismanagment.

 

[Emerson]

But they did show us the changelog and what was coming on Spring Cleaning like 1-2 wekks before the patch (or was it days?), which is the way it should have been, yet 7 months later they are back to their pre-diretide silence. I don't remember a single person being angry or something similar when they did that before the Spring Cleaning patch.

No, it was same day really. The blog post leaked and was posted again later that day, then released on test client that night. Main client the next week.

 

[Drkirby]

They aren't making techies from scratch.

Techies is the oldest dota 1 hero yet to add, and one of the oldest period.

In fact, the concept behind ANY yet to add that's not oracle is at the very least 2+ years old. All they have to do is a model and code the abilities.

Making a hero from scratch is something like the teased monkey king that everybody thought was gonna release with the next dota 1 patch. But since icefrog now considers dota 2 the main focus, it will probably be YEARS to get a brand new hero where, even in dota 1, you'd see an average of 2 heroes a year.

tl,dr: Valve are lazy, they are incompetent at communicating, they deserve any backlash they get.

I honestly wonder what happened with the dev team. My main guess is people working at the company must of been really excited at the start of the project, they had a huge team on it, got a ton of stuff done quickly, and people likely started to get bored and move off the project around TI3 since it was "almost done".

That, or the Source 2 stuff is eating up a shit ton of resources. ota 2 works pretty much perfectly in it, I don't think something like that would be as easy as just recompiling the game in a new engine.

Edit: Some fake patch notes on /v/, these should be good for a laugh and help me with that 4th stage of grief.
http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/260355612/its-happening

 

[Randdalf]

Their fault. If you really think this is the best outcome, when we can directly compare it to their competitors (Riot) example, I don't know what to tell you.

They should also get a good Support Staff for Steam too.

My perception on the "Valve needs a community manager" topic really comes from following TF2 for 7 years, and they're modelling the update cycle for Dota on that. In TF2 it worked very well, updates were released every few months (slowed down in more recent years) and the cycle of hype into release beforehand was very enjoyable. What new weapons would we get? What new game modes? A new Meet the Team video? The teasing and general lack of communication from Valve made updates very exciting and the community rarely got impatient as the Dota 2 community has frequently been.

There are several reasons, I think, why this approach has been less succesful for Dota. The beta period for Dota somewhat spoiled the player base with heroes releasing nearly every week, sometimes nearly many a week, and constant changes and improvement to the base game. CyborgMatt's patch analyses also offered (and still do) an ever present look into the future, by looking at unreleased hero files and textures. So when you move away from that into the traditional Valve update cycle, it's easy to see why the community would become restless.

Another big problem Valve have with updating Dota 2 is the International. For 4 months of a year (around TI), they have to make sure the game is stable - both from a gameplay perspective and a technical one - and have to put a lot of effort into organising the event itself. No doubt there are people such as programmers and artists who don't really get involved in all that, but I imagine overlap between developers and tournament organisation is common. For example, Finol, he of the pause, was the "lead" programmer on Dota 2 from the very beginning but was officiating a match at TI3. So in this period, there is an evidential reluctance to release big updates. After TI3, we got a fairly TF2-esque update cycle up until Spring Cleaning, and then there's been nothing since, because of TI4.

A community manager isn't going to solve the problem of a community still living in the update and new hero heyday of the beta, and I don't think anyone would sacrifice TI either.

They aren't making techies from scratch.

Techies is the oldest dota 1 hero yet to add, and one of the oldest period.

In fact, the concept behind ANY yet to add that's not oracle is at the very least 2+ years old. All they have to do is a model and code the abilities.

Making a hero from scratch is something like the teased monkey king that everybody thought was gonna release with the next dota 1 patch. But since icefrog now considers dota 2 the main focus, it will probably be YEARS to get a brand new hero where, even in dota 1, you'd see an average of 2 heroes a year.

tl,dr: Valve are lazy, they are incompetent at communicating, they deserve any backlash they get.

I don't think you appreciate how much work a hero requires if you think all they need to do is make a model and code the abilities. That in itself is not trivial.

 

[Hylian7]

But they did show us the changelog and what was coming on Spring Cleaning like 1-2 wekks before the patch (or was it days?), which is the way it should have been, yet 7 months later they are back to their pre-diretide silence. I don't remember a single person being angry or something similar when they did that before the Spring Cleaning patch.


And let's face it, Valve has it easy. When the patch hits people will forget about this, until they do it again, which they will.



So no one in the videogame industry should announce anything because reasons.

Spring cleaning was only a few days, and it hit test first. I remember, I did a stream where I showed off the new stuff with the patch notes on screen and people really liked that over the other videos of some dudes talking over scrolling through the patch notes.

 

[Emerson]

Edit: Some fake patch notes on /v/, these should be good for a laugh and help me with that 4th stage of grief.
http://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/260355612/its-happening

Treasure Keys
- Treasure keys are back on the Dota 2 store

lol
Not even fun fake changelog, too many of the changes are clearly fake or the way they claim to be changing it from isn't even accurate.

Also just wanna point out still no further updates to the private server

 

[Ketch]

A community manager isn't going to solve the problem of a community still living in the update and new hero heyday of the beta.

I disagree.

That's exactly what a community manager would do. Constantly monitor and adjust community expecatations... you know, manage the community... like some kind of community manager.

 

[JawesomeJaw]

Ive lost four in a row i'm ready for the patch now Valve.

 

[call_kotaku]

Communication will not fix anything, people will be mad and toxic regardless and Valve doesn't need to hire someone to read about it. The patch will be ready when it's ready, and once it's out people will forget it as easily as they did the diretide stuff.

 

[User 85168]

https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time
https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time

 

[Acinixys]

Valve doesn't have great CM because they don't have dedicated positions.

This to me is the biggests issue

They have easily 30 MILLION players split between TF2, CS:GO and Dota

Plus the 20 Million + that use Steam

Not having people to manage these communities is totally dumb and only makes the users angry

 

[manfestival]

This to me is the biggests issue

They have easily 30 MILLION players split between TF2, CS:GO and Dota

Plus the 20 Million + that use Steam

Not having people to manage these communities is totally dumb and only makes the users angry

༼ຈل͜├┬┴┬┴ pssᴛ, ʜᴇʏ ᴋɪᴅ ᴡᴀɴɴᴀ ʙᴜʏ sᴏᴍᴇ ᴅᴏɴɢᴇʀs?

 

[SteveWinwood]

Communication will not fix anything, people will be mad and toxic regardless and Valve doesn't need to hire someone to read about it. The patch will be ready when it's ready, and once it's out people will forget it as easily as they did the diretide stuff.

This.

It's not their fault they deal with an insane bipolar group of children. Greatest hypest shit ever to omg they so lazy.

Also pretty sure the definition of mismanagement definitely doesn't include making the most money per employee of any company out there.

For the most part people are happy. There is a crazy very vocal internet minority that wants everything on their time like spoiled brats and if they don't get their way they will whoop and holler and spam stupid shit on car company's facebook pages. A community manager won't fix anything. "It's still coming!" Okay well I could have told you that!

Anyone of you ever stop and wonder instead of finding the fault with valve... that maybe it's you? That your expectations are out of whack? I'm sorry you got spoiled during the beta period, but things aren't like that anymore. Get used to it. If you don't like it, there are other games you can go play and come back to this one when it comes to a point you're happy with (parity or 6.82 or whatever).

 

[Razzer]

༼ຈل͜├┬┴┬┴ pssᴛ, ʜᴇʏ ᴋɪᴅ ᴡᴀɴɴᴀ ʙᴜʏ sᴏᴍᴇ ᴅᴏɴɢᴇʀs?

These things get more and more creative.

Edit: I essentially agree with Steve. Yes, I guess it would make me feel warm and fuzzy and loved if Valve made a post saying 'Hey, hey guys, you know that patch? Yeah, well PLOT TWIST, we are still working on it! Didn't expect that did ya?' But frankly, if it doesn't come today, so fucking what? If it doesn't come this week, so fucking what? It's a patch, and I'm not gonna have a tantrum that it didn't come when I wanted it to.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

These things get more and more creative.

that's okay because they are awesome.

 

[kvk1]

༼ຈل͜├┬┴┬┴ pssᴛ, ʜᴇʏ ᴋɪᴅ ᴡᴀɴɴᴀ ʙᴜʏ sᴏᴍᴇ ᴅᴏɴɢᴇʀs?

lmao

 

[Glass Shark]

It's not their fault they deal with an insane bipolar group of children. Greatest hypest shit ever to omg they so lazy.

It's clear they have a very passionate fan base. Better communication could help them guide that passion in a positive direction rather than a negative one. Some people will continue to be jerks regardless, but just look at this thread for example... there are plenty of reasonable, level-headed people here who are getting antsy and a little bit frustrated with the lack of updates, myself included. We're not the ones spamming PLS VOLVO GIFF TECHIES but with a few minor updates our fears would be put to rest.

 

[Shorty11857]

It's clear they have a very passionate fan base. Better communication could help them guide that passion in a positive direction rather than a negative one. Some people will continue to be jerks regardless, but just look at this thread for example... there are plenty of reasonable, level-headed people here who are getting antsy and a little bit frustrated with the lack of updates, myself included. We're not the ones spamming PLS VOLVO GIFF TECHIES but with a few minor updates our fears would be put to rest.

The problem is why would anyone want to be a community manager when they can do literally anything else in Valve? Especially considering the community the game has

Also can we at least wait till the end of August before going insane

 

[Drkirby]

It is least happening before it happens.

Also, if you are out there Matt, is there anything delaying the Star Ladder 10 Compendium?

 

[Razzer]

It's clear they have a very passionate fan base. Better communication could help them guide that passion in a positive direction rather than a negative one. Some people will continue to be jerks regardless, but just look at this thread for example... there are plenty of reasonable, level-headed people here who are getting antsy and a little bit frustrated with the lack of updates, myself included. We're not the ones spamming PLS VOLVO GIFF TECHIES but with a few minor updates our fears would be put to rest.

But, like, a community manager has shit all to do with putting in a few minor updates. That is what the developers do, and that would not change from having a CM. The level-headed people who don't need constant babysitting can wait patiently for the patch to come (cus we know it is) and the 'passionate' (read: immature) fans can spam their dumb shit. For clarification, I consider everyone on Gaf to be part of the first group. As was mentioned, any hypothetical CM would just be bombarded with hate the minute they put out a statement announcing a week long delay or whatever.

And even before we talk about any of that shit, you have to consider that Valve said they were aiming for release by the end of August. Not 'it will be out at the end of August'. Not even 'It will probably be out at the end of August.' They gave a rough estimate which could be delayed by any of the tons of problems that can spring up when coding a game, and people are latching onto it as if they are then betraying trust by not releasing it in August.

To end this little rant, I'd like to point out I do empathize with the group who want Parity. Many in this thread have expressed that when parity comes they will stop wanting Valve to release at their old rate and be happy with whatever they get. Considering the one thing Valve did promise was all Dota 1 heroes in Dota 2, it's actually a reasonable thing to expect. But that isn't a communication problem, so it's not really relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[Glass Shark]

Also can we at least wait till the end of August before going insane

I agree with this, but as someone said above, it baffles me they would wait until the eleventh hour on this. My initial assumption in them saying "shooting for end of August" was that they'd give themselves a week of buffer time at least.

 

[Glass Shark]

And even before we talk about any of that shit, you have to consider that Valve said they were aiming for release by the end of August. Not 'it will be out at the end of August'. Not even 'It will probably be out at the end of August.' They gave a rough estimate which could be delayed by any of the tons of problems that can spring up when coding a game, and people are latching onto it as if they are then betraying trust by not releasing it in August.

While I totally understand the exact wording of what they said doesn't actually promise a release by the end of August, they have to understand that when they say things like this, that's what people will interpret it as. They are just stoking the flames at that point, and again, I think they deserve the backlash if it comes.

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

 

[Razzer]

While I totally understand the exact wording of what they said doesn't actually promise a release by the end of August, they have to understand that when they say things like this, that's what people will interpret it as. They are just stoking the flames at that point, and again, I think they deserve the backlash if it comes.

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

So basically, you want 'Guys, we are aiming for a release by the end of August. That means it may not come in August. No really, there is a good chance it won't come in August, we are just telling you what would be ideal.' If it gets to that point, then no, I don't think Valve are to blame. They are not responsible for people behaving like imbeciles.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

The problem is why would anyone want to be a community manager when they can do literally anything else in Valve? Especially considering the community the game has

Also can we at least wait till the end of August before going insane

Good point. They need a Community Manager AND to increase the dev team on the project by about 50% until the shit reaches Dota 1 parity.

Don't make excuses for Valve. They don't need our help or white knighting. They need to step their game up, figuratively and literally.

 

[Glass Shark]

So basically, you want 'Guys, we are aiming for a release by the end of August. That means it may not come in August. No really, there is a good chance it won't come in August, we are just telling you what would be ideal.' If it gets to that point, then no, I don't think Valve are to blame. They are not responsible for people behaving like imbeciles.

If they don't know for sure that it's going to be out by the end of August, they shouldn't mention the end of August. They should just say "a few weeks" or "in the near future". It's not logical, but it's how people react.

 

[Acinixys]

Well i finished Naxxramus in Hearthstone

Diablo 3 it is I guess till the patch comes

in 2016

 

[SteveWinwood]

While I totally understand the exact wording of what they said doesn't actually promise a release by the end of August, they have to understand that when they say things like this, that's what people will interpret it as. They are just stoking the flames at that point, and again, I think they deserve the backlash if it comes.

EDIT: Sorry for double post.

which is why they usually dont say anything at all

theyre aware of all of this more than we think

they read forums and all sorts of things and consider that work, to read what the community says (There is a whole steam dev days video dedicated to talking about how company's need to consider reading their forums as work time like valve does to better understand their audiences)

chris has an account here and lurks this thread

theyre all over playdota, dota2 reddit, the dev forums, probably shit holes like nadota

they know exactly whats happening

They feel safe ignoring it because they know as soon as it releases everyone is happy again because, as already mentioned, this fanbase is strangely bi polar and kind of crazy.

Good point. They need a Community Manager AND to increase the dev team on the project by about 50% until the shit reaches Dota 1 parity.

Why? So you can get what you want, when you want it?

They're doing what they want with their time and I trust them to know better than I how to spend it.

 

[Ketch]

This.

It's not their fault they deal with an insane bipolar group of children. Greatest hypest shit ever to omg they so lazy.

Also pretty sure the definition of mismanagement definitely doesn't include making the most money per employee of any company out there.

For the most part people are happy. There is a crazy very vocal internet minority that wants everything on their time like spoiled brats and if they don't get their way they will whoop and holler and spam stupid shit on car company's facebook pages. A community manager won't fix anything. "It's still coming!" Okay well I could have told you that!

Anyone of you ever stop and wonder instead of finding the fault with valve... that maybe it's you? That your expectations are out of whack? I'm sorry you got spoiled during the beta period, but things aren't like that anymore. Get used to it. If you don't like it, there are other games you can go play and come back to this one when it comes to a point you're happy with (parity or 6.82 or whatever).

I agree and disagree.

I agree that some people will be mad and toxic matter what. but those aren't the only people in the audience, and regardless the solution isn't to shove your head in the sand anyway.

Trying to say that communication doesn't help is just ridiculous. It is a proven fact that effective communication is key to easing tension and solving problems of all kinds. From global politics to interpersonal relationships to solo que dota to message boards centered around video games. We're doing it right now, and we are all better for it.

Maybe people's expectations are out of whack, but you know an easy way to fix that? COMMUNICATION.

You can say that it's the customer's own fault, and it's not valve's job to fix it. But at that point you're just deciding to have shitty customer service. If they want to have shitty customer service then that fucking sucks. I like valve, I'm pretty sure valve likes valve, and I'm also pretty sure they don't want to be shitty at anything... including customer service, which includes communication.

I'm also pretty sure the definition of mismanagement definitely doesn't include making the most money per employee of any company out there. But it does include consistently missing deadlines and pissing off customers.

 

[Razzer]

Hi Chris. Put in a good word for PL buffs with Icefrog pls.

 

[Sgt.Pepper]

So basically, you want 'Guys, we are aiming for a release by the end of August. That means it may not come in August. No really, there is a good chance it won't come in August, we are just telling you what would be ideal.' If it gets to that point, then no, I don't think Valve are to blame. They are not responsible for people behaving like imbeciles.

That's true. They are to blame for saying nothing, which is not unique to Dota 2 FYI.

 

[Randdalf]

All of this talk is irrelevant anyway because it's releasing tonight

Spoiler

Kappa

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Why? So you can get what you want, when you want it?

They're doing what they want with their time and I trust them to know better than I how to spend it.

Hi brick wall. How are you doing today?

I'm always amazed at how freely points can fly over some of our posters heads. It's like a group of midgets.