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Dota 2 |OT7| What the fuck have they done

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G

Gully State

Member
SteveWinwood said:
a poor laning hurts him really hard

get him down and keep him down and youll do fine

he doesnt do much in lane, he can't harass, he can't go and farm that well

also buy diffusal
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at the same time he doesn't really need to farm well in lane...just needs levels. In the games that I've played him...I generally have a really poor laning phase and by nature of simply following the team's mid game ganker around and keeping him up, I can rack up a decent amount of assists gold to fund soul ring,arcane, mek then aghs....

Imp the Dimp said:
- Any diffusal carry
- Invoker Tornado (purges GA off of everyone it hits)
- Blink Doom
- Shadow Demon
- Naga Siren (Song when GA is up)

When Omni is last picked, you gotta go Diffusal Blade. I went DB on Void once against an Omni on the enemy team:

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/851962347

Don't limited yourself in terms of items.
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Would you still build a diffusal on a support? In a solo Q pub, it's not exactly easy to convince your right clicking carry to build diffusal when they're stupidly following Grey.Shark's guide
 
shira

shira

Member
wIpaU7u.png


wkwkwk
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Gully State said:
Would you still build a diffusal on a support? In a solo Q pub, it's not exactly easy to convince your right clicking carry to build diffusal when they're stupidly following Grey.Shark's guide
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If you happen to run around with 3k+ gold, sure, why not? I've seen Aui get it on some of his supports to purge Hex. Your second sentence is exactly why Omni reks low level pubs. People won't deviate from their standard builds and Diffusal is core on very few heroes.
 
G

Gully State

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
If you happen to run around with 3k+ gold, sure, why not? I've seen Aui get it on some of his supports to purge Hex. Your second sentence is exactly why Omni reks low level pubs. People won't deviate from their standard builds and Diffusal is core on very few heroes.
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How about when you're not? When I play support, I'm usually strapped for gold between wards and what not (yes I could definitely get better at generating income at the 5 position but that's a slightly different discussion). Would you prioritize getting a mek at a reasonable amount of time (given that the build up is easier) or save up for that diffusal blade against omni?
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Gully State said:
How about when you're not? When I play support, I'm usually strapped for gold between wards and what not (yes I could definitely get better at generating income at the 5 position but that's a slightly different discussion). Would you prioritize getting a mek at a reasonable amount of time (given that the build up is easier) or save up for that diffusal blade against omni?
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I've never seen a Diffusal Blade rushed on a support and I think your team benefits more from an early Mek. Honestly, either your carry or carries get diffusals or you are likely gonna lose every 5on5. If Omniknight is picked early, consider picking a diffusal carry yourself and don't rely on trashy stubborn team mates. Shadow Demon (esp. with an Agh's) can get rid of GA without farm so consider him if you don't enjoy carrying.
 
R

RS4-

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
I've never seen a Diffusal Blade rushed on a support and I think your team benefits more from an early Mek. Honestly, either your carry or carries get diffusals or you are likely gonna lose every 5on5. If Omniknight is picked early, consider picking a diffusal carry yourself and don't rely on trashy stubborn team mates. Shadow Demon (esp. with an Agh's) can get rid of GA without farm so consider him if you don't enjoy carrying.
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How I feel too, someone has to get the diffusal. But if you're the lone support, get the mek up first. Like everything else though, it depends on your team.
 
G

Gully State

Member
Imp the Dimp said:
I've never seen a Diffusal Blade rushed on a support and I think your team benefits more from an early Mek. Honestly, either your carry or carries get diffusals or you are likely gonna lose every 5on5. If Omniknight is picked early, consider picking a diffusal carry yourself and don't rely on trashy stubborn team mates. Shadow Demon (esp. with an Agh's) can get rid of GA without farm so consider him if you don't enjoy carrying.
Click to expand...

I love carrying. Wish I could do it more but I generally pick support because everybody else usually locks in carries or heroes with no reliable cc..
 
P

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
Another alternative to deal with omni is orchid, which will have a much friendlier build up for supports. Orchid the omni, buy your team time to get kills or just kill him. Hurts in that you normally want to be building mobility on support, but sometimes you gotta take the hit.
 
L

lucebuce12

Member
Procarbine said:
Another alternative to deal with omni is orchid, which will have a much friendlier build up for supports. Orchid the omni, buy your team time to get kills or just kill him. Hurts in that you normally want to be building mobility on support, but sometimes you gotta take the hit.
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Honestly man, you might as well get the diffusal. Getting a good orchid off is so situational, and if you're a squishy support, farming it up is already a challenge, and then actually getting it off is so difficult. And it's just 5 seconds.
 
S

sixghost

Member
Gully State said:
Can we have a discussion on countering last pick omniknight or when no one picks a counter hero like silencer? I played a match last night in which despite controlling the map for most of the game...omni once he hit his levels just made the opposing team an almost unkillable deathball. We lost mid racks but fortunately managed to win the game because they dove too hard allowing me to cleanup. Our lock then managed to throw an incredibly well places and well timed ult, killing omni instantly before he could ulti (allowing PA and I to clean up- I was slark). I don't think omni is unfair as I play him quite a bit but I'm not sure how to deal with him late game without a proper counter. He isn't exactly weak in the early game either .

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/985821669
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I think you need to treat support omniknight the same way you treat support silencer or elder titan. They are extremely strong late game, but they are trash in lane, so make sure you take advantage of that. Also, you need to treat GA like Global or Ravage. It's an awesome ult with a big cooldown, so make something happen once it's down.
 
P

Procarbine

Forever Platinum
lucebuce12 said:
Honestly man, you might as well get the diffusal. Getting a good orchid off is so situational, and if you're a squishy support, farming it up is already a challenge, and then actually getting it off is so difficult. And it's just 5 seconds.
Click to expand...

It's not ideal but neither is diffusal, both are items you really don't want to buy. I don't think orchid is a strictly better alternative, as they do very different things, but it's generally more useful. Depending on the game it could be a better option.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
Generally, most supports can't really deal well with Omni late game. Some can (Sky's Ancient Seal, SD's Demonic Purge, Black Hole, whatever), but it's really on the carries to take him out most of the time with the appropriate gear.
 
K

kvk1

Member
I played with a wise captain who drafted an offlane Invoker against an Omniknight once.

Even though though he didn't land a single tornado that would take the GA buff off the opposition for the entire duration of the game, the Invoker would like to think that the threat of the tornado was super duper helpful in the end.
 
H

Hylian7

Member
A nice little change I appreciate in 6.82 is the removal of the unit target on Sonic Wave. I remember before this patch I would whiff that thing so many times because I ended up hero targeting it and they just got out of the way. Makes life as QoP much easier now.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Clinkz with desolator pushes stupid hard. I think it's really strong. Maybe more captains will give it to me now that dendi picked it.

** or not after that play.

** he got deso. redeemed.
 
I

Imp the Dimp

Member
NormalFish said:
Clinkz with desolator pushes stupid hard. I think it's really strong. Maybe more captains will give it to me now that dendi picked it.

** or not after that play.

** he got deso. redeemed.
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Desolator worked before as well. Just manually cast your auto attack once and hit with your orb afterwards because the minus armor lasts for a few seconds.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Imp the Dimp said:
Desolator worked before as well. Just manually cast your auto attack once and hit with your orb afterwards because the minus armor lasts for a few seconds.
Click to expand...

The option of going skadi instead I think actually is just as big. He was always somewhat versatile, but now he can build basically anything carry item. I'm yet to go against a comp where I felt I was gimped by anything other than my own play or my team mates.
 
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