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Dota 2 |OT7| What the fuck have they done
- Thread starter Artanisix
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Dreams-Visions
Member
You pick your poison man. They got their asses kicked by Universe's Jakiro and RTZ's Razor. They also got their asses kicked by Universe's Tide and RTZ's Lycan. But they were able to beat RTZ's Lycan once. I assume they figured with Brew they'd be able to do it again.
PPD just drafted masterfully. That Nyx.
And yes, Fear/Universe co-MVP. Both were just too good to say otherwise.
Remember back when people were like, "omg they let go of Mason!" Yes, FEAR is a better player, guys.
Yep, I have to say, I thought the lycan nerfs would make him more of a split pusher and less of a fighter. Had the opposite effect. Arteezy just rices like a hard carry, controls the map, scouts with wolves, and then just teamfights and mauls heroes. The rat side of lycan is still there, but it's not his primary function (it wasn't in 6.81, but in 6.81 he was mostly just a howl machine, in this patch, the 650 MS really gives him his own identity as this race car mauler).
Props to the frog as always, the changes actually make the hero more exciting to play and to watch IMO.
I honestly don't think they were outdrafted. There were so many huge misplays by secret and just "wtf?" decision making throughout that entire game. Heading into the mid-game, they were in a really good position. There 3 cores were all 2,3,4 on net worth, their dusa was catching up to Lycan and they were looking at a strong late game. Instead, they tried to force odd pushes and s4 and fly almost always got blink ravaged on (despite having BKB) and blown up. It was mind boggling, s4 got ravaged around 10 times and instantly blown up for sitting in the front, unable to get his ulti off and unable to do anything. Why keep making the same mistake?
Damn son lol
Jex
Member
I would agree that, yes, there were "too many heroes" to ban, but in terms of heroes that are difficult to deal with, Rtz's Lycan seems far more dangerous than his Razor. The scouting he does with his wolves is just too strong combined with all the other strengths of the hero.. Ban the Jakiro and the Lycan, I guess. That's not really ideal though.
Dreams-Visions
Member
ehhhhhh. I kinda disagree here.
Medusa wasn't picked all tournament long by anyone. Hard to suggest Secret was herded into picking her. They could have picked Morphling again. I believe they won their game when they ran Morphling (game 2?). Or perhaps Luna, Lifestealer, blah blah blah. Point is there was lots of carries they could have picked.
That said, there wasn't anything wrong with the Dusa pick other than that they gave EG a chance to counter pick the fuck out of it with Nyx. And they probably could have picked it last...not like EG was going to ban a hero with exactly 0 picks in the entire LAN.
Aghs Razor is known to be a problem. In RTZ's hands, your carry won't do any damage at all in team fights. But I mean we know what Razor is about as he was *the* hero of TI4 and didn't exactly get nerfed.
But yea...you know your team is good when there really are too many heroes that need to be banned.
In breaks and interviews they keep saying how Arteezy repeatedly tells Icefrog to nerf Razor because he's too OP. He's probably even more confident on Razor. Tough choice really.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Notail looks hella disappointed.
Puppey has that, "what the fuck ever I'm rich" face.
Puppey has that, "what the fuck ever I'm rich" face.
Seen ppy do the exact draft recently. kky stomped with AM, enemy team bans it, then ppy picks medusa in second stage after the AM ban. kky rolled. That team didn't have a necro3 carry or a nyx though. AM is a classic medusa counter for obvious reasons, so the idea is you're banning something you might want. That's just what I thought when I saw the draft play out. I was worried (as an EG fan), but suddenly Nyx.
Dreams-Visions
Member
aaaaaaah
real mothafuckin g's
icic. You very much could be right then. PPD the sheep herder?
real mothafuckin g's
icic. You very much could be right then. PPD the sheep herder?
Finals delivered more than people probably could have ever expected. Great play by EG, Universe and Fear especially those last two games. RTZ basically takes a hero that no one else plays and makes it look OP as fuck. Nodaddy pulling miracles to keep Secret in some of those games. So glad two see two Western teams squaring off that can fight against anyone in China. If everyone stays where they are then TI next year could be cray.
Sigismundo
Member
What have people been building on Lycan lately, anyway? The usual Vlad's > BKB etc or Vlad's > Armlet?
Dreams-Visions
Member
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/871...puck&lobby_type=&game_mode=®ion=&duration=
guess we might have seen the Puck pick coming.
guess we might have seen the Puck pick coming.
Maybe, or maybe lucky. Like you said morph's also a good pick if they ban AM, but there were a few good supports vs that pick too. I was surprised he banned ET over Brew (everyone's mad about Lycan but Brew's good vs Lycan till bkb). Maybe the kotl pick supports the bait theory since it was a terrible non-ban following the Medusa pick until Nyx was picked.
Great game and series though. Could have gone either way. Now if the scene can fix our tech issues...
And f AMD. I get that broken mouse all the time too.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Heroes FEAR played at Starladder:
Bounty Hunter
Necrophos
Sven
Dragon Knight
Brewmaster
Venomancer
Weaver
Lifestealer
Lina
Slark
Tidehunter
Puck
What a player.
Bounty Hunter
Necrophos
Sven
Dragon Knight
Brewmaster
Venomancer
Weaver
Lifestealer
Lina
Slark
Tidehunter
Puck
What a player.
vlads ---> necro3 ---> AC/BKB
ooh when did he play gondar? i was wanting to see more of him
First game they played, I think. Against Tinker. Ran it mid, too.
Dreams-Visions
Member
eh...
I don't necessarily disagree, but I kinda feel like if you're going to let a Lycan through, you need to have a way to really lock him down. Otherwise he'll just run around and kill all your fuckin heroes. And you have to anticipate that IF you let him through, he's going to get a fast Necro 3. But you pick a hero that absolutely needs mana to survive (dusa)?
And while the KoTL play was quite admirable, if that is instead a hero that can offer some crowd control (Shaman, Lion for example) you can at least attempt to stop him. Instead, he was largely able to run around and kite freely, killing off all supports before turning to murder Medusa and Brew post-split.
Further, I think the assumption with the KoTL pick was that he'd lane with Medusa and keep her mana filled up. Instead they sent Medusa mid where she got her ass kicked by Puck and random gank rotations. I think KKY had all of about 25cs @ 10 minutes.
Then I feel he made the wrong item choices on Dusa when he finally started to get items. Linken's didn't help him in the slightest and I don't know why he rushed it or the manta. I let out a fatass sigh when I saw that Linken's sphere pop up because it meant even longer without any real damage and he'd still need more tank items. He could have kept a casual yasha and rushed a Skadi from there. He needed survivability that Skadi offers, and it would have made the Daedalus pickup more justifiable. Yes he needed the damage of a daedalus, but without a skadi or AC, he was much too squishy. Once Lycan decided to target her, she was going to die. Linken's doesn't do shit against right-click. Also, that buyback when they took the mid rax. Ugh.
So maybe the draft was decent enough, but the lanes and item purchase decisions hurt. And of course, the team fights were masterfully played by EG. Those Puck and Lycan escapes...I imagine Secret raging (on the inside).
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/977664969
Mid BH.
#whataplayer
For pubs, I guess the most important thing is that getting cocky with a lead is more heavily punished. Also, bottle in sidelanes is more viable cus two runes. Most of the other stuff is either hero specific or a bunch of small things that add up which I would be here all day talking about.
crimson guard is OP
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
FUCK ANTIMAGE
FUCK HIM FUCK HIM FUCK HIM
YOU CAN'T FUCKING KILL HIM UNLESS YOU HAVE THREE HARD STUNS DEDICATED TO DOING NOTHING BUT KILLING HIM OVER AND OVER
FUCK HIM FUCK HIM FUCK HIM
YOU CAN'T FUCKING KILL HIM UNLESS YOU HAVE THREE HARD STUNS DEDICATED TO DOING NOTHING BUT KILLING HIM OVER AND OVER
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
It still fucking pisses me off. We had a Sven, a Shadow Shaman and a Lina. We could get him down to like 50 health and then POP bullshit blink. And even if we do kill him we've just wasted all of our resources so the rest of the teamfight aint going our way
Somethings are just imposible to deal with, best answer would be to hope for someone to farm a silence, or just push after routing him.
I'm not sure the blame is on his hero if you can't kill him with over 10 seconds of stun.
play earthshaker
Dreams-Visions
Member
http://www.dota2.com/rekindlingsoul/
silence --> attack --> dead am
that doesn't make any sense at all. SS disables are like...7 seconds of disable? + Sven stun is like 2 seconds and Lina stun got buffed to like 2.3 seconds.
We're talking a total of like 10 seconds of hard-ass cc. + Lina nuke. How is that not enough time to kill a pre-heart/bfly AM?
I bet if you watch the replay you'll see a lot of stuns stacked on top of each other instead of chained properly.
bane and disruptor wreck him
Read that the day it came out.
They probably used a stun +hex/shakles at the same time, halving the total amount of stun, or used it on other heroes in the teamfight
Pure damage, and bully him out of farm and he's done. Even if you don't kill him, as long as he isn't farming enough you are probably fine.
If he doesn't take any points in Spell Shield early, you're in even more luck. Most of the time AM is a liability for the team.
Dreams-Visions
Member
true.
manfestival
Member
hey I only got to see the first two matches of the finals. Where can I find the VODs? I really want to see EGs faces now that they finally won a major tournament. Seems like first place has eluded them for so long.
Supermanisdead
Member
agreed,fuck anti-mage
and especially fuck lina.
they're all up on youtube
the better quality ones are getting put up by starladder themselves, and i think they've uploaded through game 3, and i'm assuming they're putting the rest up too
NormalFish
Banned
almost to the 2.7k mark... Finally got fed up with my garbage MMR. Think I'll make my goal 3K before pokemon comes out :lol
manfestival
Member
You could always silence him.
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