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DOTA2 |OT14| i give up like your pubs do

Wok

Wok

Member
NormalFish said:
I'm not sure this would be much more useful, as the amount of data would end up skewing the results (if Octarine is bought 80% of the time on X hero when ahead, then we have quite a bit less data for buying it without a significant gold differential or deficit). In theory I agree with you, but I'm not sure it'd work out, practically.
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I don't see how the amount of data would skew the result. Making it less accurate, okay. Skewing, no.

The goal in the end is to compare items given same gold advantage (for instance): you have a 7k gold lead, do you go for dagon 5 or blink/aghanim ?
 
Vade

Vade

Member
1.09 said:
honestly if ur not getting necro 3 asap on jungle beastmaster i question ur motives

that item is too dank on bm not to get if ur getting uninterrupted farm and good timing like bm should
Click to expand...

Dank enough for Ronnie Coleman in a sombrero?
ixK3Azs.jpg
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Wok said:
I don't see how the amount of data would skew the result. Making it less accurate, okay. Skewing, no.

The goal in the end is to compare items given same gold advantage (for instance): you have a 7k gold lead, do you go for dagon 5 or blink/aghanim ?
Click to expand...

It would skew the results as you would have a lot of data that isn't actually indicative of quality within the very high and very low gold values, and many items would see very low usage at near-equal gold. You would see way more rapiers, for example, at very high and very low gold values, and you would probably see that if you're behind and buy a rapier, you almost always lose. And if you are ahead and buy a rapier, it's not so clear cut. That could certainly skew the data, as it isn't actually telling you if Rapier is the item to (or not to) buy, it's indicative of the way people play dota.
iamblades said:
I think winrate based statistics are fundamentally flawed to begin with, I think the stats need to be abstracted out to some per minute adjusted game impact/efficiency measurement.

Which is obviously a much more data/computation intensive system, but Yasp and Dotabuff have the data they need to crunch the numbers.

If you have a game impact stat that is relatively solid and consistent, you measure that stat on a per minute basis before and after purchasing an item, and you take the average of that as the average expected value returned from that item purchase. Then you can rank items based on expected value and create a VORP like state for value over replacement item(ie. the increase in game impact per minute relative to the average of all potential item purchases).

A stat like that would be way more useful than a simple winrate with item in inventory statistic, even if you came up with a way to adjust it for stomps and troll builds.
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This sounds good. I don't envy the guy that has to come up with the code, though.
 
I

iamblades

Member
Quesa said:
Here's a question for the mathematicians among us: How would you compensate for the inflated winrate on certain items on Dotabuff? So for example, Octarine Core has a really high win rate on a lot of heroes, but we don't consider the item OP because we have to account for the fact that if you get an Octarine on certain heroes, it's because you're already far ahead and it's a luxury item. So how would to compensate for that and find "true" item winrates?
Click to expand...

I think winrate based statistics are fundamentally flawed to begin with, I think the stats need to be abstracted out to some per minute adjusted game impact/efficiency measurement.

Which is obviously a much more data/computation intensive system, but Yasp and Dotabuff have the data they need to crunch the numbers.

If you have a game impact stat that is relatively solid and consistent, you measure that stat on a per minute basis before and after purchasing an item, and you take the average of that as the average expected value returned from that item purchase. Then you can rank items based on expected value and create a VORP like state for value over replacement item(ie. the increase in game impact per minute relative to the average of all potential item purchases).

A stat like that would be way more useful than a simple winrate with item in inventory statistic, even if you came up with a way to adjust it for stomps and troll builds.
 
G

Gully State

Member
Hylian7 said:
If you want 10 minute queues they could. Otherwise chat wheel and alt+click exist.
Click to expand...

I'm tempted to take the 10 minute queue option....reaaaal tempted.. Also, it's not like I want them out of our servers...just I'd rather play against them with an English speaking team as opposed to with them against a team with the same language issue.


Red UFO said:
Friday evening through to Sunday evening brings out the worst dota players

y/n
Click to expand...

I find that Saturday late mornings, the casual older crowd is out in full force. Generally games around that time are very pleasant.
 
A

Acinixys

Member
SecretMoblin said:
:)

junk is really fun and very easy (lich-tier) IF you have carries willing to be aggressive

is that your normal build? I don't think I've ever gotten urn on it
Click to expand...

Veil is 110% core. Boosts your farm by an insane rate when you Q + E a wave with veil applied.

I usually get urn. Its so good on heros who can roam and fight

Plus I was stacked with Void, so following him and securing kills was giving me a tonne of charges. I think I ended with 18 or so
 
G

G.ZZZ

Member
Titan permabanned Kappa.

No but seriously the hero is really good now. His stomp does serious work and his ulti is actually scary now. He's sort of a Dank seer which is way worse in lane, has more impact pre-dagger , need 0 farm, and kill tanky heroes absurdly fast. I HATE the fact that you can't ctrl+ control the spirit and haveto manually tab to it, it's fuckign stupid.
 
S

SecretMoblin

Member
G.ZZZ said:
Titan permabanned Kappa.

No but seriously the hero is really good now. His stomp does serious work and his ulti is actually scary now. He's sort of a Dank seer which is way worse in lane, has more impact pre-dagger , need 0 farm, and kill tanky heroes absurdly fast. I HATE the fact that you can't ctrl+ control the spirit and haveto manually tab to it, it's fuckign stupid.
Click to expand...
it's dumb yes but holding ctrl to move both is useful, you just have to do more clicking

He's very powerful.

of the 15 least-played heroes He is the ONLY one with a positive winrate... one of the highest in the game, wow. Higher than Miranda!
 
C

Chris R

Member
Yay, I get to go to TI.

Had to adjust some shit so I'm flying in on Monday morning and flying out on Saturday night. Only bummer is that means I have zero extra finals tickets for people here :( :( :(

I still have 2 WEEKDAY tickets, if you are in need, let me know.
 
T

TUSR

Banned
Chris R said:
Yay, I get to go to TI.

Had to adjust some shit so I'm flying in on Monday morning and flying out on Saturday night. Only bummer is that means I have zero extra finals tickets for people here :( :( :(

I still have 2 WEEKDAY tickets, if you are in need, let me know.
Click to expand...
Nice! I'll post the link for GAF attendees later tonight.

Too bad about the weekend tickets, I think Russ T was still looking for one.
 
C

Chris R

Member
TUSR said:
Nice! I'll post the link for GAF attendees later tonight.

Too bad about the weekend tickets, I think Russ T was still looking for one.
Click to expand...

I know, I had a PM out because even a few hours ago I was thinking it was a no go so the ticket could be his :(

Then the boss man decides to move his vacation around, freeing up that week.
 
T

TUSR

Banned
Carlius said:
haha man, pa is just so broken. its not even fun to play dota anymore. every game has a pa.
Click to expand...

PA is not broken in the sense that shes powerful.

Frog has been messing around with Stifling Dagger to try to get something else out of the hero. And im sure hes not satisfied with where she is right now.

Im not a fan of the 6.87 change in which the Pure Damage was changed to 60 Physical + 25/40/55/70% attack damage. Its was easy to sit back and throw Daggers with a Basi or Aquila and get CS if you were being bullied in lane. Now its different, shes losing out on early CS (mostly ranged creeps and catapults) for a stronger late game ability.

She needs changes to other abilities because shes not in a comfortable place.
 
I

inkls

Member
Carlius said:
haha man, pa is just so broken. its not even fun to play dota anymore. every game has a pa.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't understand. Everyone said she was nerfed, but shes like top 3 most picked in pubs, 30% pick rate wth.

49% wr is garbage for a hero now? lol
 
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