Support NeoGAF

[52club]

Zero tolerance policies are tricky, especially for areas that can involve interpretation. I'm not a Soccer fan, but it would seem like a red card and yellow card situation would provide a little wiggle room. It would give a possible second chance, but in the infraction is severe enough you get the red card.

 

[Hylian7]

Zero tolerance policies are tricky, especially for areas that can involve interpretation. I'm not a Soccer fan, but it would seem like a red card and yellow card situation would provide a little wiggle room. It would give a possible second chance, but in the infraction is severe enough you get the red card.

That is why evidence would be a requirement. We have had people gaming strike systems in the past.

Just like in soccer people also game yellow cards, maybe not at FIFA level (but I'm sure it has probably happened), but having been a referee at youth and men's league levels I have personally witnessed it, especially in men's league.

 

[Quesa]

That is why evidence would be a requirement. We have had people gaming strike systems in the past.

Just like in soccer people also game yellow cards, maybe not at FIFA level (but I'm sure it has probably happened), but having been a referee at youth and men's league levels I have personally witnessed it, especially in men's league.

Do you plan to do anything about those who did get three strikes or were penalized in some form last season? Or would this be a clean slate for those players?

 

[kionedrik]

What will the penalty be? Are we talking about kicking the player or flag their team with a defeat on that game?

 

[Hylian7]

Do you plan to do anything about those who did get three strikes or were penalized in some form last season? Or would this be a clean slate for those players?

I think clean slate would be the only fair way to handle it, for two reasons:

1. Since the new system is binary, there isn't really a way to outright put someone on "thin ice".
2. The point of these kinds of systems in the first place, especially a zero tolerance one, is for people to change their behavior and not act like that in the community. I would rather not permanently cut people from all IHLs unless absolutely necessary. I believe people can change, and that they can learn from being removed from the league due to flaming. There may be some people still that will consistently do it and get removed from IHL after IHL, and those can be dealt with on a case by case basis.

What will the penalty be? Are we talking about kicking the player or flag their team with a defeat on that game?

Kicking the player.

The way I see it, the choices there are either kick the player, still giving the rest of their team a chance, or penalizing the team a match, potentially causing them to be eliminated from the league. They they would be flamed AND lose a game because of that player, which is not really fair.

 

[Chris R]

Gentle ribbing is totally different than 100% toxicity.

"Yo, what the fuck was that chrono, zero heroes hit, gg" - Not flaming

"You are the worst fucking void ever, go kill yourself" - flaming

 

[Hylian7]

Gentle ribbing is totally different than 100% toxicity.

"Yo, what the fuck was that chrono, zero heroes hit, gg" - Not flaming

"You are the worst fucking void ever, go kill yourself" - flaming

Absolutely, and this will be made clear in the rules.

 

[Quesa]

I think clean slate would be the only fair way to handle it, for two reasons:

1. Since the new system is binary, there isn't really a way to outright put someone on "thin ice".
2. The point of these kinds of systems in the first place, especially a zero tolerance one, is for people to change their behavior and not act like that in the community. I would rather not permanently cut people from all IHLs unless absolutely necessary. I believe people can change, and that they can learn from being removed from the league due to flaming. There may be some people still that will consistently do it and get removed from IHL after IHL, and those can be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Kicking the player.

The way I see it, the choices there are either kick the player, still giving the rest of their team a chance, or penalizing the team a match, potentially causing them to be eliminated from the league. They they would be flamed AND lose a game because of that player, which is not really fair.

That's fair. My only concern is that often, the higher-tier players can be among the most toxic (since they tend to get flustered by people doing poorly), so kicking them from the team would stifle a team's chances. For that, all I can suggest is having a roster of reserve players who are high-skill, but I don't know how practical/fair that is.

Gentle ribbing is totally different than 100% toxicity.

"Yo, what the fuck was that chrono, zero heroes hit, gg" - Not flaming

"You are the worst fucking void ever, go kill yourself" - flaming

I would honestly take both as flaming, but that's just me. I do see what you mean, though.

 

[Hylian7]

That's fair. My only concern is that often, the higher-tier players can be among the most toxic (since they tend to get flustered by people doing poorly), so kicking them from the team would stifle a team's chances. For that, all I can suggest is having a roster of reserve players who are high-skill, but I don't know how practical/fair that is.

Yeah, an inherent problem with that is the possibility of a group that might not get to play all season.

 

[Technosteve]

plate class master race

if you dont wear plate then you aint cool fosho

Are druids still shitting on tank classes still?

 

[TheCrow]

I would honestly take both as flaming, but that's just me. I do see what you mean, though.

Yeah if I don't know you and you say either of those, that's fucked up. Maybe if you're obviously joking but its hard to tell sometimes.

 

[kiguel182]

Is Random Draft a good mode for new players?

I need to start learning the ins and outs of heroes and I'm not sure all pick is where I should be experimenting.

 

[bbd23]

Is Random Draft a good mode for new players?

I need to start learning the ins and outs of heroes and I'm not sure all pick is where I should be experimenting.

All random.

 

[waxinlyrical]

Gentle ribbing is totally different than 100% toxicity.

"Yo, what the fuck was that chrono, zero heroes hit, gg" - Not flaming

"You are the worst fucking void ever, go kill yourself" - flaming

Yeah I would take that both as flaming too. Without voice tone and context it's easy to read the first as flaming instead of a joke. To me, what would be regarded as not flaming would be something like "Just hold your Chrono until you're sure you can hit them" or "Focus on getting the Venge in the Chrono, but remember she has blink" etc.

What is clearly flaming:

"My Centaur is a useless horse vagina"

"3k players have problems breathing by themselves"

"When you tell me you can play a hero I expect you to be able to fucking play that hero"

etc etc.

As I mentioned before: My 2 ihl experiences were pretty bad because of high skill players treating low skill players like crap, and since there won't be any kind of skill brackets (understandable from a population point of view) I'll probably sit this one out. Will still be fun to spectate and spam emotes in Twitch chat though.

 

[TheCrow]

Is Random Draft a good mode for new players?

I need to start learning the ins and outs of heroes and I'm not sure all pick is where I should be experimenting.

It's my favorite of all the modes. I feel like having too many options tends to just force me to pick my go to heroes instead of actually trying someone new. It's pretty much all I played once I got the basics down. But the old version random draft, with a much smaller pool, was so good.

 

[kiguel182]

All random.

That's way too scary. I'm not that brave of a man.

It's my favorite of all the modes. I feel like having too many options tends to just force me to pick my go to heroes instead of actually trying someone new. It's pretty much all I played once I got the basics down. But the old version random draft, with a much smaller pool, was so good.

Yeah, I've been sticking to only a couple of heroes but now that I kinda know the basics I feel the need to branch out. Too many times I'm caught in something that I have no idea how it works.

My fear is just choosing the wrong hero since I don't know everyone's role.

 

[waxinlyrical]

Is Random Draft a good mode for new players?

I need to start learning the ins and outs of heroes and I'm not sure all pick is where I should be experimenting.

I think the best way to learn the ins and outs of heroes is to play the heroes you want to learn, and the most consistent way to be able to do that is in All Pick.

Once I had a pool of about 20ish heroes I could play without feeling like I was handicapping the team I really liked the old Random Draft with the smaller hero pool. Every so often I would just get none of those 20 or so heroes and pick something I thought would work similar to those 20, which allowed me to slowly grow my hero pool.

 

[NormalFish]

Even with "evidence", which I am doubtful will actually exist, we're trusting hylian seven, not known for rationality and even toned analysis, to decide if someone is flaming.

 

[52club]

I think the best way to learn the ins and outs of heroes is to play the heroes you want to learn, and the most consistent way to be able to do that is in All Pick.

Once I had a pool of about 20ish heroes I could play without feeling like I was handicapping the team I really liked the old Random Draft with the smaller hero pool. Every so often I would just get none of those 20 or so heroes and pick something I thought would work similar to those 20, which allowed me to slowly grow my hero pool.

Second this...so much to learn, it is best to keep your hero period a little limited. I'm not saying never pick a new hero, but maybe start to build a foundation of heroes you are familiar with.

 

[Hylian7]

Even with "evidence", which I am doubtful will actually exist, we're trusting hylian seven, not known for rationality and even toned analysis, to decide if someone is flaming.

No matter who I am, I won't be the only person making these decisions. They will be run by more than one person for sure. I don't want to kick everyone out of the league. I don't want to kick anyone out of the league, but I need to put my foot down on this.

Evidence is going to have to exist. As it wouldn't really be fair to kick people based on "he said she said". Again, I will urge people to record audio and take screenshots for these things. This would ensure something is done.

 

[52club]

Even with "evidence", which I am doubtful will actually exist, we're trusting hylian seven, not known for rationality and even toned analysis, to decide if someone is flaming.

No doubt he is going to need help. I'm willing to help him in this area. If he is interested. However as an old man on these boards I'm a little bit more flame resistant than some others. In these situations if no one is happy that is a good system.

 

[NormalFish]

No matter who I am, I won't be the only person making these decisions. They will be run by more than one person for sure. I don't want to kick everyone out of the league. I don't want to kick anyone out of the league, but I need to put my foot down on this.

Evidence is going to have to exist. As it wouldn't really be fair to kick people based on "he said she said". Again, I will urge people to record audio and take screenshots for these things. This would ensure something is done.

I don't play much DOTA anymore and am busy with classes (and wow lel), but if you need more people to lend a hand with those things I'm open.

 

[TheCrow]

Yeah, I've been sticking to only a couple of heroes but now that I kinda know the basics I feel the need to branch out. Too many times I'm caught in something that I have no idea how it works.

My fear is just choosing the wrong hero since I don't know everyone's role.

To be honest I was extremely lucky to almost exclusively five stack with people who were also learning. Another plus with random draft is that you do get see more heroes instead of whatever is popular at the moment. I'm so happy when I don't see a mirana, invoker, or slark in my international ranked games.

 

[Hylian7]

No doubt he is going to need help. I'm willing to help him in this area. If he is interested. However as an old man on these boards I'm a little bit more flame resistant than some others. In these situations if no one is happy that is a good system.

I don't play much DOTA anymore and am busy with classes (and wow lel), but if you need more people to lend a hand with those things I'm open.

I appreciate it guys, I will probably be in touch about this.

 

[SecretMoblin]

Yeah, I've been sticking to only a couple of heroes but now that I kinda know the basics I feel the need to branch out. Too many times I'm caught in something that I have no idea how it works.

My fear is just choosing the wrong hero since I don't know everyone's role.

Waxy is right, the best way to learn at the very beginning is to play what you want to play and are comfortable with. The burden of knowledge is -so fucking high- that trying to absorb everything at once won't encourage you to keep going.

Imo, mess around in bots (even in easy mode, never passive) either randoming or playing a hero you think looks fun. Once you have a very basic understanding, take it online. Mute other players if you have to, but you will learn a lot of more "global" gameplay basics very quickly.


Personally when I solo queue I do All Random/Random Draft/Single Draft. If I'm playing with Single Hero Pickers™ who insist on All Pick I just random. Ultimately having more than 1 (or 2 or 3) heroes that you feel ok with is the ticket to understanding more, faster.

 

[Deleted member 77995]

I played mostly random draft and single draft when first learning the game. I made it a point to pick whatever I was least familiar with and roll with it, team comp be damned. At that level of play you're not "screwing over" your teammates because no one really knows what they're doing.

 

[Quesa]

I take it you can't add coaches to teams in CM Mode? Ideally, we would have non-partial judges on both teams to watch over coms and record. Maybe not a practical idea.

 

[Hylian7]

I take it you can't add coaches to teams in CM Mode? Ideally, we would have non-partial judges on both teams to watch over coms and record. Maybe not a practical idea.

You might be able to. I can mess with it tonight and see if that is possible. That in theory is a good idea, we just need enough people to do it for all the matches going on.

I don't know why they still don't have a way to see team chat in replays.

 

[kiguel182]

Played random draft and ended up playing Lich which is my most used hero. Trying new things is hard!

I had 19 assists but only 2 kills. I felt like I could've been more useful, it seems like I was all over the place at a point. Ugh.

But we won, mostly because our carry was good. A win is a win.

 

[shadow2810]

Dropped like 500 mmr in just 3 days, like what's up with Valve matching system.

 

[kiguel182]

Waxy is right, the best way to learn at the very beginning is to play what you want to play and are comfortable with. The burden of knowledge is -so fucking high- that trying to absorb everything at once won't encourage you to keep going.

Imo, mess around in bots (even in easy mode, never passive) either randoming or playing a hero you think looks fun. Once you have a very basic understanding, take it online. Mute other players if you have to, but you will learn a lot of more "global" gameplay basics very quickly.


Personally when I solo queue I do All Random/Random Draft/Single Draft. If I'm playing with Single Hero Pickers™ who insist on All Pick I just random. Ultimately having more than 1 (or 2 or 3) heroes that you feel ok with is the ticket to understanding more, faster.

Thanks for the advice! I've mostly stuck with 2 or 3 heroes. I still have no idea how team builds work and stuff and that's something that I feel like I'm always in risk of choosing a bad hero.

 

[Red UFO]

Thanks for the advice! I've mostly stuck with 2 or 3 heroes. I still have no idea how team builds work and stuff and that's something that I feel like I'm always in risk of choosing a bad hero.

It will come in due time. Do not be afraid to make mistakes or choose the wrong hero; if you have the right attitude and learn from it, there's still plenty of value in fucking up.

 

[Vade]

Thanks for the advice! I've mostly stuck with 2 or 3 heroes. I still have no idea how team builds work and stuff and that's something that I feel like I'm always in risk of choosing a bad hero.

If you ever don't know what hero to pick; pick Legion Commander. Like every strong woman Legion Commander needs no team to be relevant. You can always jungle,mid,off lane, dual lane, or jungle their jungle. Your ultimate gives you permanent damage buffs. So even if your team is derping around you will always get stronger. You have wave clear, sustain, and a yellow this is Purge.

Legion commander is probably the best hero in this current pub meta. While pro teams might defeat you and push your raxs early before you get strong pubs will rarely if ever do that. While you will continually scale with damage and items.

 

[waxinlyrical]

If you ever don't know what hero to pick; pick Legion Commander. Like every strong woman Legion Commander needs no team to be relevant. You can always jungle,mid,off lane, dual lane, or jungle their jungle. Your ultimate gives you permanent damage buffs. So even if your team is derping around you will always get stronger. You have wave clear, sustain, and a yellow this is Purge.

Legion commander is probably the best hero in this current pub meta. While pro teams might defeat you and push your raxs early before you get strong pubs will rarely if ever do that. While you will continually scale with damage and items.

...Yeah no, there's a reason why we call her Loss Commander in this thread.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

I will 100% snitch on people.

Learn to have some manners.

Talk shit get banged.

 

[Red UFO]

shut up vade

 

[Deleted member 77995]

Thanks for the advice! I've mostly stuck with 2 or 3 heroes. I still have no idea how team builds work and stuff and that's something that I feel like I'm always in risk of choosing a bad hero.

If you play on US servers I'm down to run some games with you, bots or PvP. I'm not a great player but breaking in noobies and teaching them the 101's of Dota is my kind of thing.
Steam ID is whiskeystrike if you're interested.

 

[M.D]

What the hell is waiting for their lineup has been set for some time already

Just announce it already

 

[StrongArmSteady]

maut is fucking horrible good lord..

 

[NormalFish]

Maut is most underrated caster. Better than LD, Godz, Lumi, Tobi

 

[lv2 pidgey]

Played random draft and ended up playing Lich which is my most used hero. Trying new things is hard!

I had 19 assists but only 2 kills. I felt like I could've been more useful, it seems like I was all over the place at a point. Ugh.

But we won, mostly because our carry was good. A win is a win.

i also started out playing dota with lich

as others have said there's a ton of things to learn about the game so it doesnt hurt sticking to a few heroes before branching out as you learn everyone's skill set and strengths/weaknesses

trying out new heroes and messing around in a bot game is a good idea IMO

 

[StrongArmSteady]

sing songs made it to a lan boys!

 

[Vade]

shut up vade

I get it, you lash out when your region's dota is trash, but that is no reason to get bad advice to someone starting out. Don't be a hyliansleven and make tread swapping the pinpoint of dota while missing out on 99% of the game where you can improve.

 

[Twookie]

alright, legions been out for a day almost now and the big question still remain


when the fuck is monkey king

 

[shira]

Maut is most underrated caster. Better than LD, Godz, Lumi, Tobi

those areolas do

 

[LiQuid!]

Y'all are a mess tbh if you got to create anti-flaming countermeasures because you guys can't stop acting like rotten shitkids towards EACH OTHER long enough to play out a for-funsies community tournament. Is it really so hard to not act like a toxic fuck on command? Like, how do you go out in public if bottling up a negative emotion is so hard?

 

[Tart Toter 9k]

Y'all are a mess tbh if you got to create anti-flaming countermeasures because you guys can't stop acting like rotten shitkids towards EACH OTHER long enough to play out a for-funsies community tournament. Is it really so hard to not act like a toxic fuck on command? Like, how do you go out in public if bottling up a negative emotion is so hard?

"I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like"

 

[kionedrik]

Y'all are a mess tbh if you got to create anti-flaming countermeasures because you guys can't stop acting like rotten shitkids towards EACH OTHER long enough to play out a for-funsies community tournament. Is it really so hard to not act like a toxic fuck on command? Like, how do you go out in public if bottling up a negative emotion is so hard?

LiQuid!
I proudly and openly admit to wishing death upon the mothers of people I don't like
(Today, 09:07 PM)

edit: for fuck sake...

 

[bbd23]

 

[Hylian7]

Where did that tag come from?