The hell? That advice sounds terrible. Low MMR carries aren't farming with effeciency already, so how is dumping 2k on an item that isn't anything that the hero needs going to help? It makes no sense.
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DOTA2 |OT15| anime only please
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Monochromaticx
Member
You ate all the ice cream?
Learning to efficiently play the map is important, and low MMR enemy teams tend to react poorly to it. Doesn't seem terrible to me.
Or would you prefer they learn how to tread switch first
How do TP scrolls not accomplish that? Say they are playing Anti-Mage. Even if you don't go Battle Fury, that 2k could be put towards so many other useful items such as Vanguard, Vlad's, or even straight up rushing Yasha into Manta. This applies to almost every other carry too, and on top of that they should get in the habit of buying TP scrolls. It's Dota 101.
Monochromaticx
Member
I agree. Getting early bots is situational at best and recommending lower MMR players to get it early is shitty advice that only someone as moronic as bsj would provide.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
There's a lot of bad advice given out to lower mmr players from 6K+ that equate to ignoring team, muting everybody and trying to win 1v9 while ignoring Dota concepts at large. If the question was how can I smurf at a lower bracket with a 85% winrate then their advice might make sense but us lower players should be improving by finding gaps in our gameplay and working on those, one area at a time. A 52% to 55% winrate while climbing would be very respectable but a lot of players don't want to put in the time to grind out the neccessary dozens if not hundreds of matches it could take to get to a higher level.
The fighting game equivalent would be teaching someone one to spam fireball or throws. It'll net you some easy wins for a bit but pretty soon you'll hit a very hard wall.
Kill stealing baiting piece of shit
Wok
Member
One of the best things with boots of travel is the extra movement speed. This helps secure kills or save lives. See it as a blink dagger for people who cannot use blink dagger.
(I am just trying to make sense out of it. Not sure about what I just said.)
If it is as fun as Support Riki, I will.
(I am just trying to make sense out of it. Not sure about what I just said.)
If it is as fun as Support Riki, I will.
Sigismundo
Member
Wok
Member
Force Staff requires more skills than having boots with extra movement speed.
Due to quick-cast messing with self-cast, force staff requires even more skills than blink dagger. Plus the fact that you have to precisely target a unit rather than just the ground.
For a carry with low skills, force staff sounds like a bad advice, even though it can be transformed into hurricane pike.
Tart Toter 9k
Member
The Boots of Travel are for buybacks because they can help you take the high-ground when you screw up.
sleverfunk
Member
How do you lane and build items order?
Wok
Member
From my analysis on OpenDota. I would say:
Mid.
At min 9 max, the first tower should be down.
At min 10, you should have between 65 and 75 last hits somehow.
Keep sieging till both T1 and T2 are down.
Max return first. 1 point in each skill for utility. Then max double edge.
Stout + Tango + Quelling Blade + 2x GG branches
> 2 min 30 sec Ring of Health
> 10 min Vanguard + up to 2 salves if needed
> 15 - 19 min Radiance
> Heart of Tarrasque
> bots, 2nd heart of tarrasque, whatever
AM is the worst example you could find since he can move around freely and farm the whole map even without brown boots.
BoTs serve that purpose and it's especially efficient if you have some sort of escape, like Ember or Morph, since you aren't sacrificing your survivability or if you are very nuke-centric early on, like Tiny or Arc Warden, since you aren't sacrificing your kill potential. In neither case you sacrifice your farming potential by rushing BoTs, your team can stay as 4, pushing, smoking or farming while you are on the other side of the map pushing lanes or farming the jungle.
There's also the fact that minions were, and still are to some extent, very popular, so a mobile tower to reach fights will never not be a plus.
sleverfunk
Member
GordonHalfman
Member
I think BoTs have been pretty strong ever since the 45s cd change, it's very good for map mobility compared to relying on scrolls.
Also the bonus MS is worth more since items like Drums are out of favour, and item slots on carries are at more of a premium now there are lots of good cheap items like Dragon Lance, Echo Sabre and Blink of course.
Also the bonus MS is worth more since items like Drums are out of favour, and item slots on carries are at more of a premium now there are lots of good cheap items like Dragon Lance, Echo Sabre and Blink of course.
Is that really what BSJ's advice meant then? As I understood it as it was discussed earlier, he was saying to do it on any carry. Ember, Morph, Arc Warden, Naga, etc., it makes sense, that's been a thing for a long time. Other heroes is where it gets less and less logical to do that.
IMO here are some of the advantages of BOTs for middling-skill players (source: I am a middling skill player):
- TP scrolls diminish in effectiveness as the game goes forward and you lose towers, where BoTs don't (unless you're forced into your base, but then TPs are totally worthless anyway), so they are not actually equivalentBOTs are better
- Improves map awareness by forcing you to think about where and when to TP around
- Reacting to split pushing is usually a struggle for 2-3k players
- Since farm efficiency is usually not great for these players, Every Little Helps
I'm not sure if I would personally get it on every character but I can definitely see the argument for it.
shira
Member
Oct 6-9
WESG EU/CIS Kiev, UKR
$75k
20 teams --> 8 qualifiers
Oct 9-12
WESG SEA Goyang, SKorea
$75k
16 teams --> 6 qualifiers
Oct 12-16
Nanyang Cruise Cup Sapphire Princess Cruise Ship
$45k
4: Wings, Newbee, 2 TBD
Oct 21-23
WESG NA/SA Sao Paolo, BR
$75k
12 teams --> 6 qualifiers
*Shira speculation Fall Major is in Moscow Dec 7-17
Nov 11-13
NA Beat Invitational Montreal, CAN
$100k
8: EG, CoL, [A], DC, FDL, 3 TBD
Nov 12-13
ROG Masters Kuala Lumpur, MY
$150k
12 TBD
Nov 25-26
DreamLeague 6 Jonkoping, SWE
$175k
6: Secret, OG, EG, Escape, Navi, Alliance
Dec 7-11
Summit 6 Los Angeles, US
$ TBD
# TBD
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WCA 2016 Yinchuan, CN
$ TBD
# TBD
Jan 5-7
ESL One Genting Genting, MY
$250k
8 TBD
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DotaPit 5 TBD
$125k
8 TBD
I really like this point. I feel like dragonlance has replaced treads in terms of added survivability for a lot of ranged cores. If you're a terrorblade and you have dragonlance, PMS, quelling, aquila, brown boots. It feels like you can get bots after manta or the item after. Makes it so much easier to farm and splitpush.
Also good because it can be like specter's ult in the sense that you can farm when your team is aggressive and then tp to creeps when a fight is about to happen.
I wouldn't get it on all carries. Feel like sven, lifestealer, amongst others would benefit more from the stats by going treads/phase.
Also seen pl do it as well. If he knows what he's doing he can have a really good early impact.
This makes it sound more reasonable.
As far as the lower skill levels go though, I think the issue of farm effeciency still persists though. You can TP all around the map, but are you capable of having any impact in fights when all you have is BoTs?
Some cores BoTs is the standard, whether first item or a few items in. Examples include Ember, Naga, etc.
I agree playing the map effectively is important, but when that's ALL you do and try to just ignore everything else, then that's where you run into problems. Your team could need you and you probably need more than just BoTs to be effective in the teamfight. This depends on the hero of course, but still in higher skill levels where people get BoTs on heroes like Ember, they know what they are doing and can farm fairly effectively where it actually capitalizes on their potential. A lower MMR player, that may delay Battle Fury, Blink, Daedalus, or whatever else by 10 minutes more than normal.
BoTs are a good item, make no mistake, and even better now with the cooldown and the fact that BoTs 2 is an option, but there really is a time and a place for them.
Alot of the heroes I listed already have decent stat gains and impactful abilities like PL or TB. Farming outside the laning stage is not gonna be a struggle vs creeps because of their stats or qb.
Also I don't think bots can delay an item by that much. Unless you were planning to go brown boots the entire game and not go phase/treads then the extra cost is more like an extra 1050-1200 gold to get bots and you can substract the cost of future tp's from it as well.
Other thing is that bots channeling is not affected by how many heroes tp'd to a tower previously, unlike tp. So if your team mass tp'd to your t1-3 then you don't have to wait an extra 2 seconds to join a fight that possibly just broke out.
You can have a high impact in fights with early bots. You have one extra item slot, and your abilities can still do a lot. PL's phantom lance still is a huge harass and his rightclick still hurts before diffusal. Tb still has all four of his abilities to help in fights.
If you see the enemy team at a t1 and your creep wave is at one of theirs then you can bots to the wave and with heroes like tb, easily outpush them, either force them to abandon the push or risk losing a t2 and raxes before they get to yours if they commit to a push.
Sure maybe not everyone in a lower MMR will apply it well, but knowledge is not equal at any level. Someone might know how to farm well at 2k but suck at map awareness, they could have really good wards but don't even know how to smoke bank. People being inefficient shouldn't be an excuse, its not like everyone else is efficient. If it can help a player improve then great. Players who either understand why something is good will improve as will some who have no idea why it works but do it because they saw pros do it.
If they can't practice it how will they improve?
shadow2810
Member
RNG can change everything.
Had a game yesterday against a PA that can throw a dagger that will either crit or stun (with basher) then crit twice in a row pretty much in all fights. Oh and 90% miss chance with blur. Though at end game our team all agreed something seemed fishy.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
I've gotten about 30 commends over the past two weeks. I've lost mmr playing support but hey I got commends!
You're gonna be happy to have those once valve finally finishes the game and implements that system where you pay less for Dota 2 than you do now for being so nice
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
Another 8 commends in two matches! You're on to something sir
Start eating.
shira
Member
If they weren't waiting for Google presser idk wtf they are waiting for
Rumor is Valve fucked up and everyone is getting 4x commends and 3x reports since they changed the report/commend screen
People noticing a factor of 4 commends increase.
waxinlyrical
Member
I have been geting more commends since the post-match UI update too. I'm sure part of this is that it's easier to commend people now (and I think you can commend even after disconnecting from the match?), but the numbers are such a large increase I feel like there may be a bug on that.
Imp the Dimp
Member
My Invoker went 0-2 mid against a 3.4k Ursa and single-handedly lost us the game. God I hate that. I knew 5 mins in we lost and had to play for another 20. And isn't Invoker vs Ursa like a 90:10 match up in favour of Invoker?
Enemy team was also 5 core line up. God, I'm so triggered.
edit: Next game up against another 5 cores. We're gonna lose.
Enemy team was also 5 core line up. God, I'm so triggered.
edit: Next game up against another 5 cores. We're gonna lose.
Monochromaticx
Member
NX reveal after 6.89
Dreams-Visions
Member
hi
what is this dota
what is this dota
Milk's guide to Fortress Centaur
"Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged." - Dolores Umbridge, expert on Centaur anatomy
This build focuses on the incredible skill known as RETURN, which is heavily devalued by most players. RETURN is valuable because: it allows you to farm creep waves and stacks very early, leading to a significant gold advantage; heavily deters enemies from ganking you in the early game; and, most importantly, works on enemy towers. We choose to exploit this skill as much as possible and build Centaur around RETURN.
Required knowledge:
- Know how to stack jungle camps
Pros:
- Centaur mythos allows you to roleplay as a viking-like warrior
- Extremely high rate of farm with early maxed return
- Many favorable matchups in the midlane
- Very difficult to gank due to bulky build and return deterrent
- Capable of bulldozing entire bases midgame while the enemy watches, powerless to stop you
- Capable of contributing to team globally while farming due to Stampede (ganks+saves)
- Capable of solo carrying depending on matchups
Cons:
- Sacrifices significant early game kill potential due to maxed return (still possible to get kills with rotations)
- Requires a MIDLANE setup. Safe lane is suboptimal but feasible, offlane this build is heavily discouraged
- Hero cannot be picked in certain matchups
- PvE-oriented; interaction with enemy players is much less than other builds
- You have shit for cosmetics
- Guaranteed to piss off your team, the enemy team, or both
- Easier on radiant than dire due to camp proximity
Don't pick Centaur mid when you have to lane against:
Tinker, Storm Spirit, Templar Assassin, Razor
Play cautiously if laning against:
Death Prophet, Invoker, Timber, Ursa, OD, Viper, Sand King*
Matchups not listed above generally lean towards FAVORABLE for Centaur. Please ask if you have questions about specific matchups.
*Sand King is only a threat in-lane due to caustic
Skill build:
[1] Stomp/Return
[2] Return/Stomp
[3] Return
[4] Double Edge
[5] Return
[6] Ulti
[7] Return
[8-10] Double Edge
Item build and general game plan:
Sub-0: Stout, quelling blade, tango, branch x2
Why: this is your most vulnerable state -- get the quelling blade to secure enough early farm for the vanguard
0-8m: Ring of health->[Hood || Vanguard], boots
Why: if you're laning against a hero or enemy roamers with heavy magic damage, consider going a hood before vanguard first. you'll be able to catchup in farm relatively quickly as hood reduces damage you do to yourself with double edge, so you can double edge camps. if magic damage isn't too high, preference leans towards vanguard
10-20m: Vanguard (iff not already purchased), Radiance
Why and how: you should be level 7 with maxed return by now. do your best to stack a jungle camp every minute if possible. with vguard, aggro enemy waves by attack-targeting enemies and push the wave out as much as possible so you can farm your stacks. If the enemy leaves the lane, tank and kill the tower. Use double to farm if you purchased hood first.
If you're having a hard time early game, consider leaving your lane completely. Have a teammate take the lane while you farm the jungle full-time. Always watch the map to see if you can help ganks or save teammates with your Stampede.
Radiance increases your farm threshold dramatically and makes you even more of a deterrent to attack. You can safely farm enemy jungles and take their creepwaves+towers if they don't outnumber you severely.
20m+: Heart
Why: once heart is obtained, you have achieved fortress-status. Bulldoze enemy towers with your team. You're so bulky that initiating on you leads to a free counter-initiation, but not dealing with you leads to dead towers. You push so fast that if two or more of the enemy team is wiped at their own rax, they are at extreme danger of also losing their T4s to return.
Luxury: Heart#2, Manta, Octarine, Crimson Guard, Mjolner, Butterfly
Choose as needed
~
Spread the Centaur DNA. Become a better thorns boss mob than Spectre. And have fun!!
"Progress for the sake of progress must be discouraged." - Dolores Umbridge, expert on Centaur anatomy
This build focuses on the incredible skill known as RETURN, which is heavily devalued by most players. RETURN is valuable because: it allows you to farm creep waves and stacks very early, leading to a significant gold advantage; heavily deters enemies from ganking you in the early game; and, most importantly, works on enemy towers. We choose to exploit this skill as much as possible and build Centaur around RETURN.
BREAK YOURSELVES UPON MY BODY
Required knowledge:
- Know how to stack jungle camps
Pros:
- Centaur mythos allows you to roleplay as a viking-like warrior
- Extremely high rate of farm with early maxed return
- Many favorable matchups in the midlane
- Very difficult to gank due to bulky build and return deterrent
- Capable of bulldozing entire bases midgame while the enemy watches, powerless to stop you
- Capable of contributing to team globally while farming due to Stampede (ganks+saves)
- Capable of solo carrying depending on matchups
Cons:
- Sacrifices significant early game kill potential due to maxed return (still possible to get kills with rotations)
- Requires a MIDLANE setup. Safe lane is suboptimal but feasible, offlane this build is heavily discouraged
- Hero cannot be picked in certain matchups
- PvE-oriented; interaction with enemy players is much less than other builds
- You have shit for cosmetics
- Guaranteed to piss off your team, the enemy team, or both
- Easier on radiant than dire due to camp proximity
Don't pick Centaur mid when you have to lane against:
Tinker, Storm Spirit, Templar Assassin, Razor
Play cautiously if laning against:
Death Prophet, Invoker, Timber, Ursa, OD, Viper, Sand King*
Matchups not listed above generally lean towards FAVORABLE for Centaur. Please ask if you have questions about specific matchups.
*Sand King is only a threat in-lane due to caustic
Skill build:
[1] Stomp/Return
[2] Return/Stomp
[3] Return
[4] Double Edge
[5] Return
[6] Ulti
[7] Return
[8-10] Double Edge
Item build and general game plan:
Sub-0: Stout, quelling blade, tango, branch x2
Why: this is your most vulnerable state -- get the quelling blade to secure enough early farm for the vanguard
0-8m: Ring of health->[Hood || Vanguard], boots
Why: if you're laning against a hero or enemy roamers with heavy magic damage, consider going a hood before vanguard first. you'll be able to catchup in farm relatively quickly as hood reduces damage you do to yourself with double edge, so you can double edge camps. if magic damage isn't too high, preference leans towards vanguard
10-20m: Vanguard (iff not already purchased), Radiance
Why and how: you should be level 7 with maxed return by now. do your best to stack a jungle camp every minute if possible. with vguard, aggro enemy waves by attack-targeting enemies and push the wave out as much as possible so you can farm your stacks. If the enemy leaves the lane, tank and kill the tower. Use double to farm if you purchased hood first.
If you're having a hard time early game, consider leaving your lane completely. Have a teammate take the lane while you farm the jungle full-time. Always watch the map to see if you can help ganks or save teammates with your Stampede.
Radiance increases your farm threshold dramatically and makes you even more of a deterrent to attack. You can safely farm enemy jungles and take their creepwaves+towers if they don't outnumber you severely.
20m+: Heart
Why: once heart is obtained, you have achieved fortress-status. Bulldoze enemy towers with your team. You're so bulky that initiating on you leads to a free counter-initiation, but not dealing with you leads to dead towers. You push so fast that if two or more of the enemy team is wiped at their own rax, they are at extreme danger of also losing their T4s to return.
Luxury: Heart#2, Manta, Octarine, Crimson Guard, Mjolner, Butterfly
Choose as needed
~
Spread the Centaur DNA. Become a better thorns boss mob than Spectre. And have fun!!
Dreams-Visions
Member
O_O
I'm in.
I'm in.
shira
Member
https://wesg.starladder.com/en/dota...dota-2-teams-at-the-lan-finals-of-wesg-europe
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/World_Electronic_Sports_Games/2016/Europe_CIS
8 qualify for China LAN
Group A
Horde (SWE) akke stack
F5 (RUS) illidan stack
Denmark (DEN) maelk stack
NecrorRaisers (CZE)
Zeta (NOR)
Group B
Commanche (RUS)
NeRusb (UKR)
wombat (GER)
xenex (UK)
lvlup (SER)
Group C
Ukraine (UKR) dendi stack
Zero Hoots Given (GER)
Romania (ROM) bone7 stack
Que la famille (FRA) 7mad stack
Paragon (BEL)
Group D
Imperial (DEN) babykn1ght stack
Alliance (SWE) loda stack
Alternate Attax (POL)
Woof (NED) sing stack
Butterfly (SPA)
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/dota2/World_Electronic_Sports_Games/2016/Europe_CIS
8 qualify for China LAN
Group A
Horde (SWE) akke stack
F5 (RUS) illidan stack
Denmark (DEN) maelk stack
NecrorRaisers (CZE)
Zeta (NOR)
Group B
Commanche (RUS)
NeRusb (UKR)
wombat (GER)
xenex (UK)
lvlup (SER)
Group C
Ukraine (UKR) dendi stack
Zero Hoots Given (GER)
Romania (ROM) bone7 stack
Que la famille (FRA) 7mad stack
Paragon (BEL)
Group D
Imperial (DEN) babykn1ght stack
Alliance (SWE) loda stack
Alternate Attax (POL)
Woof (NED) sing stack
Butterfly (SPA)
shira
Member
Wok
Member
Thanks for the guide! I have been experimenting with my own understanding of it, but I feel I need a guide.
D
Deleted member 77995
Unconfirmed Member
There's such a clear cut difference between weekdays and weekend Dota. My winrates have started to normalize across the board but midday Dota always seem more willing to work together and less likely to blame, even on the losing side.
StrongArmSteady
Member
I have the worst experiences on the weekends gg