Support NeoGAF

[koji]

There's some very interesting stuff on rogue builds in this thread.

IV: CONCLUSIONS

Dagger/dagger cunning is the clear DPS leader. Axe/dagger cun and longsword/dagger cun are about tied for 2nd place. The rest of the builds are pretty close in DPS, with the fullsize/fullsize builds lagging behind their fullsize/dagger counterparts.

Please bear in mind that this analysis assumes the same hit-rate across all builds, since I can't calculate real hit rates without knowing monster defense. In practice the cunning builds will likely hit less often than the other builds unless boosted by party buffs. Those who have played a high level cunning rogue says the hitrate difference is not large with the right attack rating boosts.

Also bear in mind that the cunning builds require three more talents than the str/dex builds (for Lethality). This tends to reduce their utility in the early game since they'll have a hard time finding spare points for Lockpicking. By the end game, though, they have enough cunning to unlock or disarm anything while needing only 1 point in lockpicking (or zero for the dagger/dagger cunning build).

The dagger/dagger dex build has two advantages that aren't reflected in the numbers. The first is a sky-high defense. Second is somewhat better ranged DPS via shortbows or xbows with the dex hotfix. The other builds are limited to using longbows if they want ranged damage.

And indeed CUN and daggers are the way to fly. Also some interesting stuff about lockpicking, how much you need for the hardest chests in this thread.

The lockpicking score is simple to compute:

L = (cunning - 10) + 10 * [lockpicking rank]

Your lockpicking rank is the number of points you have in the Deft Hands tree. If you have Deft Hands alone, your rank is 1; if you have Device Mastery, your rank is 4. As you can see, each point in the Deft Hands/lockpicking tree is worth 10 points of cunning. Notice that you can actually open locks without any points in the lockpicking tree if your cunning is high enough (I confirmed this in-game).

If you successfully pick a lock, you'll gain XP equal to D (with a minimum of 5). Thanks Sheffsteel for the observation.

Great! But how high does your lockpicking score have to be to pick every pickable lock in the game? Unfortunately I don't have the time or know-how to inspect every lock in the toolset to find a maximum value for D. However, there is a big hint in traps.xls, which contains a sheet called lock_difficulty with the following table:

1 Auto Success
10 Simple
20 Very Easy
30 Easy
40 Medium
50 Hard
60 Very Hard
10000 Impossible

So I would tentatively suggest that you need a lockpicking score of 60 to pick every lock that can be picked. You can achieve a lockpicking score of 60 by getting Device Mastery + 30 cunning, or Mech. Expertise + 40 cunning, etc. Of course, some locks will still require keys or event triggers to open.

Some people have finished the game with a lockpicking score of 60 and said this was enough to open everything. One person on the old forums said he was unable to open a chest with a lockpicking score of 64, but I don't know the circumstances. I would appreciate feedback from more people about whether 60 is enough for everything.

Respec mod is a rogues best friend! ;-)

 

[Zalasta]

Cunning and daggers is the way to go - you lose in defense and attack rating, but these things are generally not very important since you should be going about things in a manner that makes them less so (backstab!).

You'd think so but you are generally swarmed by huge groups of mobs and the tanking in DA is a piss poor implementation. 1-2 abilities is usually enough for my PC rogue to grab hate and the tank lacks additional hate generation skill to take it back (certainly cannot out damage unless he uses a 2-hander, which means he shouldn't be tanking in the first place).

I only wish they bothered to craft interesting looking armor aside from massive armor. If you're a Rogue, what you look like at the start of the game is basically what you look like at the end - there is nothing cool like Blood Dragon armor to look forward to at all. Fucking Bioware.

What do you expect when the majority of the armors in the game is worthless (did anyone even bothered to buy from vendor besides accessories). The itemization is DA is horrid. You'd think designers would learn by now that unique and valuable loot can keep people playing their games for a long time.

My biggest problem is the Darkspawn. They overpower Wynne and kill her and then there's no way to revival.

Hmmm...you do know that mobs are sight aggro? Keep Wynne out of LOS and in the distance, the darkspawns will just ignore her. Honestly, the last fight is a big joke, the boss doesn't even move around besides the scripted locations. Could totally range it to death without a tank.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Is Zevran's

Spoiler

assassination attempt on you

triggered by Morrigan's

Spoiler

Flemeth

quest or is it random, also- if it is indeed so, is Morrigan's quest triggered by completing the

Spoiler

Circle of the Magi tower

or is it activated completely by reputation or both?

In short, how do I get Zevran ASAP?

 

[theMrCravens]

The Fade part really, really sucked.

I know every RPG out there got at least one badly designed area or dungeon famous for being boring, but the Fade has to be one of the worst I've ever played.

Shame you can't skip it.

 

[_PM]

I'm stuck at

Spoiler

The Gauntlet fight against the ghosts. If I level up, will the ghosts also level up?

 

[FateBreaker]

The Fade part really, really sucked.

I know every RPG out there got at least one badly designed area or dungeon famous for being boring, but the Fade has to be one of the worst I've ever played.

Shame you can't skip it.

Really? That was one of the best parts of the game for me.

 

[Kuraudo]

FUCKING SPOILER part really, really sucked.

I know every RPG out there got at least one badly designed area or dungeon famous for being boring, but the Fade has to be one of the worst I've ever played.

Shame you can't skip it.

Cheers, mate!

 

[Lan_97]

The Fade part really, really sucked.

I know every RPG out there got at least one badly designed area or dungeon famous for being boring, but the Fade has to be one of the worst I've ever played.

Shame you can't skip it.

I just finished the Fade last night and felt the same. It's a shame, because there was a similar scene in one of the prequel novels(not great), and it was much more interesting. Great stat bonuses though.

 

[Pancakes]

Really? That was one of the best parts of the game for me.

The first time around you're not exactly sure what to do and thus, you can end up dying alot and having to restart. This is what happened to me at least.

Also, the area is kind of bland and boring.

It becomes a joke the 2nd and 3rd time around though .

 

[Gaz Pwnage]

on my third play through now as an asshole elf mage

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

The Fade part really, really sucked.

I know every RPG out there got at least one badly designed area or dungeon famous for being boring, but the Fade has to be one of the worst I've ever played.

Shame you can't skip it.

I think it was more of a "heyyyyyy I'm on my way to saving the Circle and I end up here? By myself? And I can't kill everything? Lame!"

I liked it: it was definitely different.

 

[Willectro]

The Fade part really, really sucked.

I know every RPG out there got at least one badly designed area or dungeon famous for being boring, but the Fade has to be one of the worst I've ever played.

Shame you can't skip it.

I didn't mind it. Not looking forward to doing it again if I do a 2nd play through.

 

[Minsc]

I didn't mind it. Not looking forward to doing it again if I do a 2nd play through.

This is how I felt too. I suppose it could be more interesting in a second play through so long as your two support characters are different. I'd be curious to see what the Marabi sees in the Fade.

 

[Dizzy-4U]

My biggest problem is the Darkspawn. They overpower Wynne and kill her and then there's no way to revival.

Call your dwarfs when the darkspawns appear. They do a pretty good job holding them down so you can concentrate on the boss. Also, the freeze magic is a godsend. You can spam that all day while your teammates fight close range.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

This is how I felt too. I suppose it could be more interesting in a second play through so long as your two support characters are different. I'd be curious to see what the Marabi sees in the Fade.

THIS. It's the ONLY thing keeping me from throwing up at the thought of going through that long-ass section again. :lol I thought it was interesting the first time, with the different forms you pick up. But oh god, not again.

 

[Minsc]

THIS. It's the ONLY thing keeping me from throwing up at the thought of going through that long-ass section again. :lol I thought it was interesting the first time, with the different forms you pick up. But oh god, not again.

At least you get the equivalent of like 3 or 4 level ups worth of skill points in there... I regret not heading there straight away. Though my next play through I will probably do the Fade with Shale and the dog if they're available for my next character.

Extremely minor spoiler question (first 5 hours of gameplay) after playing the human noble origin:

Spoiler

Does every origin become a grey warden

?

 

[Son of Godzilla]

I appreciated the endgame very much. I forced myself to do straight playthrough mostly, no testing the waters with my choices and then reloading. I managed to get pretty much a flawless victory, the game really made me feel like I succeeded, but due to some choices left me feeling rather unfulfilled. I didn't even realize I was that involved with my character to be honest. The finale before the ending ending was downright depressing really.

I unno, I'm kinda happy with that too. I'm content with my character not having a satisfying ending. Playing through again seems like it would be a betrayal of sorts.

 

[Arde5643]

What do you expect when the majority of the armors in the game is worthless (did anyone even bothered to buy from vendor besides accessories). The itemization is DA is horrid. You'd think designers would learn by now that unique and valuable loot can keep people playing their games for a long time.

For the development team that created Baldur's Gate 2, it's kinda mind-boggling how crappy the early-middle equipments are.

In BG2, I remembered being swarmed with an abundance of decent magical equipment very early on and getting the rare uber equipment every now and then from early midway point to end game.

I think this one of the biggest reasons why the physical classes are so bad in this game - once the physical classes have obtained some decent equipments, they become a little better.

 

[Wallach]

I am considering using this respec mod for the PC. It aggravates me to no end that they saw fit to not only give you the "quick play" option when making a character (for those that WANT their points auto-assigned), but then felt the need to still auto-assign a skill and talent onto your main character even if you don't choose "quick play". Why? Someone over there is retarded - if I wanted Shield Bash do you not think I would take the damn talent when I created my character? If you're to be a DW/2H warrior, oh well you just get -1 talent points for the rest of the game. Such a terrible design decision for an RPG like this.

 

[Des0lar]

At least you get the equivalent of like 3 or 4 level ups worth of skill points in there... I regret not heading there straight away. Though my next play through I will probably do the Fade with Shale and the dog if they're available for my next character.

Extremely minor spoiler question (first 5 hours of gameplay) after playing the human noble origin:

Spoiler

Does every origin become a grey warden

?

Afaik, after you completed the origin story, every character follows the same path, except for some race specials.

 

[NIN90]

In BG2, I remembered being swarmed with an abundance of decent magical equipment very early on and getting the rare uber equipment every now and then from early midway point to end game.

Evil talking sword in BG2. Good times, good times.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Finally finished Circle of Magi,
accidently

Spoiler

sided with the templars, due to not realising that the abominations he was summoning were actually the wizards. Oops.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

The Fade part really, really sucked.

I know every RPG out there got at least one badly designed area or dungeon famous for being boring, but the Fade has to be one of the worst I've ever played.

Shame you can't skip it.

I hope someone releases a mod to skip it at some point. I thought it was kind of fun actually but having to do it on each playthrough is going to be torture.

 

[Tony Redgrave]

I found the Fade pretty interesting, changing forms was a point up in diversity, and some of the characters nightmares were pretty funny

Spoiler

Morrigan trying to endure the fake Flemeth totally cracked me up xD

the only thing that bugged me is that every area looked extremely similar.

Just did it in my second playthrough and it's definitely much easier when you know what to do

 

[dralla]

alright so I'm about to start this. is there anything I should know when making a character? i plan on going half melee, half magic.

 

[Tony Redgrave]

alright so I'm about to start this. is there anything I should know when making a character? i plan on going half melee, half magic.

If you are talking about your main character being half warrior half mage Arcane Warrior is the only way, so you should start with a mage and unlock the specialization a few hours into the game (if you know where to look for it that is) then you can start using the specialization at level 7.

 

[Ashodin]

The Edge dagger is awesome, I got on my City Elf/War/Templar, and it was waaay better than the dagger I had currently, which in itself was a special dagger. :lol

I really like how they are putting in loot post-game, can't wait for like "packs" of loot to add to the game to go find and collect. Should make the game last even longer. And they have said they have 2 years worth of DLC for the game planned, which shouldn't be too hard considering I've seen what players can do with the customizable tools.

Only regret is not playing the PC option for the mods, but I thoroughly enjoy the style of gameplay the 360 version provides.

 

[Fredescu]

I need to make a Fade avatar. I made Shale in solidarity when a bunch of people called him a boring one note character. I love the Fade, and I loved it more the second time around on Nightmare because some of the fights required

Spoiler

the spirit form

which I didn't use at all the first time.

Tips for the Fade:

- Go right first. You get

Spoiler

burning man form

in the first one on the right and then

Spoiler

golem form

on the second one.
- Use

Spoiler

the forms!

I was hardly ever

Spoiler

in my regular forum

.
- The

Spoiler

burning man form is immune to fire, which means he takes no damage from fireball. You can pretty much run into the middle of a bunch of enemies and cast it on top of yourself. You get knocked down, but you take no damage like you normally would on PC normal+ or console hard+. You can use a combination of golems hurl rock and burning mans firewall to kill or almost kill most of the enemies before they even get to you.

- Switching

Spoiler

forms can heal you. I think if you to a form with more HP (golem) and then back to yourself or to burning man you gain HP back

- The lyrium veins heal you to full. If you're having trouble or chugging a lot of pots, pull the enemies to the veins and fight near them so you have them close at hand.

I can appreciate not liking the graphical effects in the fade. It makes my eyes lose focus and sometimes I need to focus on something else for a while to bring them back to normal.

 

[gokieks]

Tips for the Fade:

- Go right first. You get

Spoiler

burning man form

in the first one on the right and then

Spoiler

golem form

on the second one.

You know that you don't have to follow the path lines and can jump to/from any area that is accessible, right?

 

[Fredescu]

You know that you don't have to follow the path lines and can jump to/from any area that is accessible, right?

Yes? That's why I'm suggesting to go to those locations first since they make the rest easier.

 

[gokieks]

Yes? That's why I'm suggesting to go to those locations first since they make the rest easier.

The way you worded it sounded like you needed to follow the right "path".

Anyway, I personally would say that spirit form is a more worthwhile one to pick up early than Golem, just because Crushing Prison is a ridiculously powerful spell (and being able to heal yourself isn't bad either).

 

[Fredescu]

I barely used

Spoiler

spirit form

on pc normal. The other two were a lot more fun. Might want to spoiler tag some of that stuff too, I think some people would still consider them to be spoilers.

 

[Grayman]

Based on my saved game times I spent 4-5 hours in the circle tower and the fade. Very long trip. Now I am going to try and get shale.

Can anyone point me in the right direction to get arcane warrior? Town on the map to look at next maybe?

 

[Killthee]

Based on my saved game times I spent 4-5 hours in the circle tower and the fade. Very long trip. Now I am going to try and get shale.

Can anyone point me in the right direction to get arcane warrior? Town on the map to look at next maybe?

Brecilian Forest. There's an item inside the ruins that gives you the option of unlocking the specialization after touching the item.

 

[Grayman]

Brecilian Forest. There's an item inside the ruins that gives you the option of unlocking the specialization after touching the item.

Thanks I am checking out the area, in a neat twist the elf's are not easily giving me quests.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I'm stuck at

Spoiler

The Gauntlet fight against the ghosts. If I level up, will the ghosts also level up?

Spoiler

Go back to your camp and come back with your main character only. Only one ghost will appear and it will make the fight much easier. Get your party back before moving on after you beat it.

 

[buffi]

Finished the game yesterday. Took me a little bit over 35h (on normal).

The end boss was pretty epic. Failed 4 times, and when I finally got him I only had my main character (mage without resurrection) and my warrior alive for the last 50% of his life total

 

[sweetvar26]

I discovered 95% of the world and still cant get the 'Traveller' achievement/ My buddy got it at 94%, fuck. That is the only achievement I need, oh well, may be it's a glitch.

Anyway, a new add-on called 'Return to Ostagar' is announced. Link here.

Your memories of the battle of Ostagar will haunt you for years to come. It laid waste to your order and claimed the lives of many great men and women.

Now, there are rumors that a fellow survivor of the battle has escaped from captivity and is seeking the Grey Wardens' help. The time has come for the Grey Wardens to make their return to Ostagar and exact their revenge upon the darkspawn.

- A return to the battlefields of Ostagar, now thick with darkspawn encamped amidst the snow
- An opportunity to reclaim the lost arms and armor of a king
- A second chance to add Dog to your part

 

[squall211]

I just got my copy the other day and have put in about 10 hours so far. It's great fun. I have a question though!

How many total recruitable characters are there? Are they the same for each race/class, or are there some different ones depending on what you are?

 

[panda21]

i have a question, how do i use the runes on weapons? do i need to take them to someone to do it for me? or do you need a weapon with a rune 'slot', and you can switch them between weapons? i think i have a weapon with a slot (theres an empty square at the bottom of the info page) but i couldnt figure out how to put it in there (ps3)

 

[chris-013]

I just got my copy the other day and have put in about 10 hours so far. It's great fun. I have a question though!

How many total recruitable characters are there? Are they the same for each race/class, or are there some different ones depending on what you are?

The real number is a spoiler. :lol
Yes, they are the same.

i have a question, how do i use the runes on weapons? do i need to take them to someone to do it for me? or do you need a weapon with a rune 'slot', and you can switch them between weapons? i think i have a weapon with a slot (theres an empty square at the bottom of the info page) but i couldnt figure out how to put it in there (ps3)

You must talk to the merchant at your camp.

 

[DimmuBurgerKing]

I didn't have a problem with

Spoiler

the Fade

in terms of difficulty, even on Hard. The first time through, choosing which form to use according to the circumstance added a fun strategic element, it's just that the Fade itself looks so boring it becomes a chore to traverse the area. I have the same problem with the Deep Roads and most obligatory subterranean areas in RPG's.

 

[sweetvar26]

i have a question, how do i use the runes on weapons? do i need to take them to someone to do it for me? or do you need a weapon with a rune 'slot', and you can switch them between weapons? i think i have a weapon with a slot (theres an empty square at the bottom of the info page) but i couldnt figure out how to put it in there (ps3)

As the person above me mentioned already, you will have to talk to the merchant in the camp, and 'Enchantment' is the word you will be looking for.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Spoiler

Surrounded by like 1000 bodies...

Enchantment?

Biggest WTF moment of the game. That and the

Spoiler

Guard getting blowjob

 

[The Elite]

Great, now I know you play in

Spoiler

The Fade.

. Could someone spoiler that?

 

[kyo_daikun]

I didn't mind it. Not looking forward to doing it again if I do a 2nd play through.

Hated it at first, agree with you guys and dont fancy doing it a second time...

 

[Tideas]

I must be doing something wrong with my tactics...but I always see my guys standing aroudn doing nothing,

even when I have "Enemy: nearest" Action: "Attack"

 

[RPGCrazied]

so want the ostagar dlc, finished game 2times.. i want new stuffs.!

 

[Doytch]

I must be doing something wrong with my tactics...but I always see my guys standing aroudn doing nothing,

even when I have "Enemy: nearest" Action: "Attack"

Do you have 'stand ground' turned on? Hit H a couple of times and watch the icon underneath the party portraits change.

 

[Killthee]

Do you have 'stand ground' turned on? Hit H a couple of times and watch the icon underneath the party portraits change.

Also make sure they're using an offensive behavior that goes after the enemies instead of the default/defensive behaviors.