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[~Kinggi~]

Id like to see more impressions of the areas from the console and pc versions. Still up in the air as to which to get. I really dont want to have to play it on the PC, especially since its such a long game. If the 360 one is competent enough ill go with that one.

 

[Shinjitsu]

Fuuuuck, goddamit STOP HAVING ENEMIES SCALE. If shit's too hard, good - that gives meaning to loot/customization/development/rpg elements, and the finding of it - to get better.

But if everything is at my fucking level what the fuck is the point of leveling. I hate this scaling bullshit. Oh, so I found some remarkable weapon - the game notices this and gives said weapon to the enemies. It's bullshit. Pass.

Did you even read what he wrote?

 

[bengraven]

You haven't even played it yet!

Sh.

I am allowed hyperbole.

 

[Snapshot King]

Fuuuuck, goddamit STOP HAVING ENEMIES SCALE. If shit's too hard, good - that gives meaning to loot/customization/development/rpg elements, and the finding of it - to get better.

But if everything is at my fucking level what the fuck is the point of leveling. I hate this scaling bullshit. Oh, so I found some remarkable weapon - the game notices this and gives said weapon to the enemies. It's bullshit. Pass.

You want the loot (which this isn't a loot game) to matter more than being able to decide which story threads you want to pursue. No thanks.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Fuuuuck, goddamit STOP HAVING ENEMIES SCALE. If shit's too hard, good - that gives meaning to loot/customization/development/rpg elements, and the finding of it - to get better.

But if everything is at my fucking level what the fuck is the point of leveling. I hate this scaling bullshit. Oh, so I found some remarkable weapon - the game notices this and gives said weapon to the enemies. It's bullshit. Pass.

This is why we can't have nice things

 

[Fredescu]

Not every game is Oblivion.

 

[Caspel]

Let me stress the fact the game is not easy. I've been playing on Normal and have died due to overwhelming strength of numbers for my enemies.

Spoiler

One of the party members actually attacks the group before joining and that battle took 3-4 tries to figure out the tactics to overcome the odds

.

There are two higher difficulty levels, so if players find it too easy on Normal, then they can always move it to those two at anytime during the game.

Also, the dungeon I was speaking about had a good reason to keep me locked in it and not allowing me to leave at free will --

Spoiler

the templars outside were going to kill everyone inside and it was a suicide mission to begin with -- so the only way they would let me out is if I found the First Enchanter to let them know everything was okay. If I couldn't, then the "dungeon" would be forsaken by the templars and they would seek for support from the Chantry to close it down for good.

 

[Dresden]

Fuuuuck, goddamit STOP HAVING ENEMIES SCALE. If shit's too hard, good - that gives meaning to loot/customization/development/rpg elements, and the finding of it - to get better.

But if everything is at my fucking level what the fuck is the point of leveling. I hate this scaling bullshit. Oh, so I found some remarkable weapon - the game notices this and gives said weapon to the enemies. It's bullshit. Pass.

You didn't read what he said, eh?

 

[~Kinggi~]

Let me stress the fact the game is not easy. I've been playing on Normal and have died due to overwhelming strength of numbers for my enemies.

Spoiler

One of the party members actually attacks the group before joining and that battle took 3-4 tries to figure out the tactics to overcome the odds

.

There are two higher difficulty levels, so if players find it too easy on Normal, then they can always move it to those two at anytime during the game.

Also, the dungeon I was speaking about had a good reason to keep me locked in it and not allowing me to leave at free will --

Spoiler

the templars outside were going to kill everyone inside and it was a suicide mission to begin with -- so the only way they would let me out is if I found the First Enchanter to let them know everything was okay. If I couldn't, then the "dungeon" would be forsaken by the templars and they would seek for support from the Chantry to close it down for good.

Is the 360 version significantly worse than the PC one? Does it feel polished? Are the graphics comparable. I know there were some sections shown off from the pc one involving the horde attacking from the forest which looked pretty demanding, are those fine on the 360?

Also, does the gameplay translate well or does it feel frustrating and messy?

 

[jabipun]

You didn't read what he said, eh?

I read what he said after my post. Which explains things a bit better.

If you're referring to his earlier post - I never have played BGII. So - when he says it scales like that, that doesn't tell me anything.

Regardless, scaling is scaling. And this game does it like Oblivion - which is fail.

I don't understand what this pseudo-scaling thing he's talking about either. What - do enemies in certain areas have a "level range" - that they scale to min - max? What the hell does 'kind of scaling' mean?

If an enemy at the start of a game is level 1, and you come back to them 10 levels later, are they at level 1, or at level 10 like you are. It either scales or doesn't.

 

[water_wendi]

I read what he said after my post. Which explains things a bit better.

If you're referring to his earlier post - I never have played BGII. So - when he says it scales like that, that doesn't tell me anything.

Regardless, scaling is scaling. And this game does it like Oblivion - which is fail.

I don't understand what this pseudo-scaling thing he's talking about either. What - do enemies in certain areas have a "level range" - that they scale to min - max? What the hell does 'kind of scaling' mean?

If an enemy at the start of a game is level 1, and you come back to them 10 levels later, are they at level 1, or at level 10 like you are. It either scales or doesn't.

Say there is a bandit camp. The camp has enemies that range in level from 20-30. If you go there at level 10, the enemies will be their minimum in that 20-30 range.. so basic enemies will be 20, while the boss will be 25. If you go to the camp at level 40, the basic enemy will be 25 and the boss will be 30. The loot in the dungeon stays the same, just the difficulty of the enemies. If you can sneak past the guys at a low level and swipe their level 20-30 loot from their chests, you get uber-loot for your level. This is not how Oblivion does this. And frankly, i dont remember BG2 having any scaling outside of random encounters.. but this is an example of what you call pseudo-scaling.

 

[Cohsae]

Say there is a bandit camp. The camp has enemies that range in level from 20-30. If you go there at level 10, the enemies will be their minimum in that 20-30 range.. so basic enemies will be 20, while the boss will be 25. If you go to the camp at level 40, the basic enemy will be 25 and the boss will be 30. The loot in the dungeon stays the same, just the difficulty of the enemies. If you can sneak past the guys at a low level and swipe their level 20-30 loot from their chests, you get uber-loot for your level. This is not how Oblivion does this. And frankly, i dont remember BG2 having any scaling outside of random encounters.. but this is an example of what you call pseudo-scaling.

So basically it has enough scaling that there will be areas that you will be discouraged from going until you are at an appropriate level, but you can still go to those areas if you want?

 

[NewLib]

Say there is a bandit camp. The camp has enemies that range in level from 20-30. If you go there at level 10, the enemies will be their minimum in that 20-30 range.. so basic enemies will be 20, while the boss will be 25. If you go to the camp at level 40, the basic enemy will be 25 and the boss will be 30. The loot in the dungeon stays the same, just the difficulty of the enemies. If you can sneak past the guys at a low level and swipe their level 20-30 loot from their chests, you get uber-loot for your level. This is not how Oblivion does this. And frankly, i dont remember BG2 having any scaling outside of random encounters.. but this is an example of what you call pseudo-scaling.

BG2 did in some places. I remember one instance in particular (cant remember the dungeon but I think its the one where you find Mazzy) where the enemies were skeletons if you went through early, but turned into liches if you went through it late game.

From my understanding (which isnt complete) the bosses dont scale at all. I think the scaling is more there are certain type of enemies early in the game and in the middle/late game they change to more difficult types of enemies.

 

[JayDubya]

If you have an open world where you can explore a lot of different areas, as Dragon Age seems to have for the majority of its runtime - the midgame - you probably need some scaling.

Otherwise, there's going to invariably be a "right order" to go through the levels.

In fact, many games employ this tactic, including Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect...

It was just particularly egregious in Oblivion.

 

[Liberty4all]

Oh, dear

I really wanted to like Mass Effect and definately didn't give it enough time. I only made it to the Station and wandered around for awhile before I gave up.

With that said I've always been more of a fantasy fan than sci fi when it comes to rpg type games. I made it alot further in Oblivion (7 or 8 hours in or so).

It's strange because I loved RPG's waaay back in the 8 bit days (Dragon Warrior, Final Fantasy etc) but starting with PS1's iteration of FF I just lost interest (maybe the jump from 2D to 3?). I still enjoy the exploratory aspects though which the game seems like it will offer.

I honestly wasn't paying attention to Dragon Age as I figured that based on past experiences that these type of games aren't for me. After watching some of the trailers though the storyline is looking very interesting, it reminds me of alot of the fantasy novels I used to read when I was younger. I guess I'm not sure what to expect but I'm thinking of giving the genre another "roll"

 

[Twig]

Fuuuuck, goddamit STOP HAVING ENEMIES SCALE. If shit's too hard, good - that gives meaning to loot/customization/development/rpg elements, and the finding of it - to get better.

But if everything is at my fucking level what the fuck is the point of leveling. I hate this scaling bullshit. Oh, so I found some remarkable weapon - the game notices this and gives said weapon to the enemies. It's bullshit. Pass.

New abilities. New badassery.

Get a brain, Sparky, before you hurt yourself.

 

[water_wendi]

So basically it has enough scaling that there will be areas that you will be discouraged from going until you are at an appropriate level, but you can still go to those areas if you want?

i wouldnt exactly call that discouraging. Harder enemies means better stuff to steal :lol Thats the best kind of encouragement ever!

edit:

BG2 did in some places. I remember one instance in particular (cant remember the dungeon but I think its the one where you find Mazzy) where the enemies were skeletons if you went through early, but turned into liches if you went through it late game.

From my understanding (which isnt complete) the bosses dont scale at all. I think the scaling is more there are certain type of enemies early in the game and in the middle/late game they change to more difficult types of enemies.

Ah.. ive only played it a couple times and its been 5 years since the last time. Thanks for the clarification.

edit-edit: im watching the videos of people playing this game.. and im not noticing any buffing. i see main character mages using direct damage spells but ive been trying to spot buffs of some kind. Are there any buffing spells?

 

[NewLib]

If you have an open world where you can explore a lot of different areas, as Dragon Age seems to have for the majority of its runtime - the midgame - you probably need some scaling.

Otherwise, there's going to invariably be a "right order" to go through the levels.

In fact, many games employ this tactic, including Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Knights of the Old Republic, Mass Effect...

It was just particularly egregious in Oblivion.

I think the two big differences in the way Bioware has done it in the past compared to Oblivion is 1) Its not nearly as noticeable and 2) In Oblivion, it really is a question of what is the point of leveling. In Bioware games, you are going to beat a dungeon much easier at level 20 than level 10 even if there was a scale. While enemies might increase with your strength, the tactics/abilities/weapons you will have will make getting rid of them still easier than it was before.

I also do like the idea of trying and failing at a quest in Dragon Age and not coming back 5 levels later and seeing that the dungeon is just as hard.

 

[Caspel]

Is the 360 version significantly worse than the PC one? Does it feel polished? Are the graphics comparable. I know there were some sections shown off from the pc one involving the horde attacking from the forest which looked pretty demanding, are those fine on the 360?

Also, does the gameplay translate well or does it feel frustrating and messy?

The 360 version is as polished as I could imagine. A few clipping problems, framerate has never bogged down, a few times the voices went silent while the characters were still animated. Since the 360 version can't zoom out, I can't really compare the two since I played the PC version from the isometric view. PC version did look better, but it's hard to compare when the view points are drastically different.

 

[jabipun]

I also do like the idea of trying and failing at a quest in Dragon Age and not coming back 5 levels later and seeing that the dungeon is just as hard.

As do I. Which is one of the reasons I was so turned off by Oblivion.

I also like the idea of going to a place earlier than "normal" and fighting tougher enemies to get better rewards. I don't need the developer to scale the enemies lower, I can take a hint and realize that I shouldn't be here and do other things and level up. Which is half of the fun of these games no?

 

[Fredescu]

Which is half of the fun of these games no?

Half the fun of these games is choosing the order in which you do side quests and go to different areas. If all areas had completely static levels, you might outlevel those areas because you were focused on the main quest. Mowing down countless enemies with no challenge just to experience a part of the story does not sound fun at all.

Like I said, not every game is Oblivion. Oblivion had some of the shittiest levelling mechanics in RPG history. Don't assume that every game that scales will be that bad because you played one game in which it was poorly implemented.

 

[Lion Heart]

It's so fitting that my Borderlands copy wont arrive til the 3rd....im not sure what I will do yet regarding this game and borderlands, can't play both at the same time though.

 

[jabipun]

Half the fun of these games is choosing the order in which you do side quests and go to different areas. If all areas had completely static levels, you might outlevel those areas because you were focused on the main quest. Mowing down countless enemies with no challenge just to experience a part of the story does not sound fun at all.

Like I said, not every game is Oblivion. Oblivion had some of the shittiest levelling mechanics in RPG history. Don't assume that every game that scales will be that bad because you played one game in which it was poorly implemented.

Okay.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Gothic games did it best, split the game into chapters, one minute you're struggling against wolves, next you're fighting off an orc invasion.

 

[mujun]

Does the weird delay stuff with the PS3 version mean it's gonna be busted. That's what my gut tells me.

 

[momolicious]

I really hope this is good!

 

[Dresden]

Does the weird delay stuff with the PS3 version mean it's gonna be busted. That's what my gut tells me.

The PC Master race laughs at your puny console problems.

Spoiler

I doubt there will be any problems, nothing to worry about

 

[-tetsuo-]

I will install this game

 

[sendu]

Regardless, scaling is scaling. And this game does it like Oblivion - which is fail.

No, it doesn't.

If an enemy at the start of a game is level 1, and you come back to them 10 levels later, are they at level 1, or at level 10 like you are. It either scales or doesn't.

Scaling doesn't have to be stupid. If you actually encounter the lvl1 enemy when you're level one, leave without killing it and come back at lvl10, then it will indeed still be lvl1.

Dragon Age tries to be as subtle and effective with its level scaling. They call it "Persistent Scaling":

Essentially, the game has the capability to scale around your level and adjust encounters, but it does not do so in a way that means the challenge level never changes. Some areas are harder, even at the lower end, and others are a bit on the easier side.

Better, the game remembers when you visit places, so if you are having trouble with a particular encounter, you CAN leave, tackle a few side quests and come back tougher and know that the game won't have suddenly jumped the difficulty up on you to match. Hence "persistent."

It's a very refined system. Some creatures are handled specifically, even. *cough*dragon*cough*

The harder/easier stuff is done with limited scaling:

Our enemies scale to within a set range, depending on the specific enemy and the area's expected experience level, and you can both come under that range as well as be over it.

 

[Broadbandito]

I do not know how I am going to have any time with this next week and mw2 the week after

 

[sendu]

Does the weird delay stuff with the PS3 version mean it's gonna be busted. That's what my gut tells me.

Since they gave themselves more time to work on it and gave it a later release date, that tells us they weren't being forced to rush it out buggy. Since they were able to bring the release date up again, that tells us they didn't need the extra time after all since they're happy with it. So, fingers crossed for you PS3 guys; more than likely it's OK.

 

[koji]

So, fingers crossed for you PS3 guys; more than likely it's OK.

Footage I've seen so far (from that gamespot vid) looked OK, better than expected even.

(footage for people interested is around 7:50)

 

[guidop]

Just bought the game off steam are we going to be able to pre-load the game?

also: best OP ever

 

[roxya]

BG2 did in some places. I remember one instance in particular (cant remember the dungeon but I think its the one where you find Mazzy) where the enemies were skeletons if you went through early, but turned into liches if you went through it late game.

Also, various golems encountered could be a different type based on your level.

 

[Songbird]

Warden's Quest is introducing the teams who'll be playing DA for 24 hours. There seems to be a host, Knightmare/Atmosfear style, and I woke up for that crap too.

Full of neeerds and beeeards. Imagine the smell after 24 hours.

 

[water_wendi]

A question to anyone thats played.. are there parties of other adventurers you bump heads with in DA? Those are some of the best fights in BG2 and was wondering if DA had them.

 

[koji]

Warden's Quest is introducing the teams who'll be playing DA for 24 hours. There seems to be a host, Knightmare/Atmosfear style, and I woke up for that crap too.

Full of neeerds and beeeards. Imagine the smell after 24 hours.

Watching atm, makes me want to play the game... :-/

 

[Songbird]

Watching atm, makes me want to play the game... :-/

Go team UK! Bring the host back!

 

[Zeouterlimits]

Unforunately my PC has reached its failing point,
360 version shall be mine. Looking forward to it .

 

[Satanyoka]

Ahhh shit in my pants I can't wait!#@!$
This game is gonna blow

Spoiler

the shit out my pants[/spoilers]















As you can tell I'm very excited.

 

[Minsc]

As do I. Which is one of the reasons I was so turned off by Oblivion.

I also like the idea of going to a place earlier than "normal" and fighting tougher enemies to get better rewards. I don't need the developer to scale the enemies lower, I can take a hint and realize that I shouldn't be here and do other things and level up. Which is half of the fun of these games no?

The best of the Oblivion monster mods don't remove scaling entirely, they just greatly reduce the extremely awful/huge range the game ships with by default.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

so - too late for 360 collector's edition?

 

[Truant]

Watching the video now, the game looks amazing in isometric perspective.

 

[fanboi]

Watching the video now, the game looks amazing in isometric perspective.

URL please!

Spoiler

BG2 is the best game

 

[koji]

URL please!

http://www.wardensquest.com/main

Spoiler

BG2 is the best game

Spoiler

First time I see you post that!

;-)

 

[fanboi]

http://www.wardensquest.com/main

Spoiler

First time I see you post that!

;-)

Holy shit of the goat king!

 

[Truant]

Beware of spoilers, friend.

My guess is that eastern europe will destroy the rest of the contestants. They live and breed [pun intended] for these games.

 

[stealthieOne]

can someone explain the battle system...like for the consoles...button presses result in actions right? cause i can't tell if this is an action rpg.

 

[fanboi]

can someone explain the battle system...like for the consoles...button presses result in actions right? cause i can't tell if this is an action rpg.

Demon's Souls is an action rpg.

This is not.

 

[RPGCrazied]

so.. any of you have a reviewer 360 copy? please tell us how it runs.