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GHG
Member
I think there is still room for bringing real life issues in to the fantasy space (or even making them the foundation for your fantasy). In fact, some of the best works in history were created on this very principle.
Where this goes wrong though is that it's too on the nose. If you're going to create something with the basis being a personal issue/struggle then you need to go to lengths in order to make it metaphorical in such a way that the player/reader/watcher isn't even aware of what they are actually experiencing or relating to.
T thomasmahler touched on this very topic the other day:
Players wouldn't have known what the basis of his stories were for both Ori games unless explicitly told, but in both cases the games took players on a journey through his experiences and there is richness, depth and passion in those games because of that.
So there would have been nothing wrong with the director in this case making their journey and struggle as a trans individual the basis for this work, however it would have meant they would have needed to be creative in order to metaphorically get that experience across.
And the great irony is, if they (the Dragon Age director) had done a good job of that and then explained after the fact how the themes related to their own personal struggle, people would have been far more receptive compared to this preachy mess.
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Palabragrís
Member
Still waiting for RPGFan.com review. Meanwhile, here's the review from RPGSite:
https://www.rpgsite.net/review/16473-dragon-age-the-veilguard-review
7/10
ProTip: If memory serves me well, the Webmaster from that site was one of the founders of ResetERA back in the day. Though even he disagrees with the path that site took.
https://www.rpgsite.net/review/16473-dragon-age-the-veilguard-review
7/10
ProTip: If memory serves me well, the Webmaster from that site was one of the founders of ResetERA back in the day. Though even he disagrees with the path that site took.
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Needlecrash
Member
I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I never played Dragon Age but I definitely enjoyed Mass Effect 1-3 (didn't finish 3 tho but I liked it). The stories wrote themselves and the characters all had a part to play in one way or another. Always thought Wrex was an asshole but the more I played, the more I understood him and fucks with him and Garrus the most. I see Dragon Age and although I hadn't played it, to me it seemed to be thoroughly engrossing A cool, dark fantasy RPG story that pulled no punches. I dig that shit.
Now, I casually observe what the series has been become now. Strayed so far away from it's roots. EA not letting any criticism be seen by the masses; which is already a red flag because it shows me that they don't fully stand by their product confidently. The fact that choices DON'T MATTER. And the sense of conflict has been reduced to characters barely disagreeing and going on a mission like Little Einstein's.
Quite sad and pathetic.
Now, I casually observe what the series has been become now. Strayed so far away from it's roots. EA not letting any criticism be seen by the masses; which is already a red flag because it shows me that they don't fully stand by their product confidently. The fact that choices DON'T MATTER. And the sense of conflict has been reduced to characters barely disagreeing and going on a mission like Little Einstein's.
Quite sad and pathetic.
Unknown Soldier
Member
To paraphrase a certain recent ad:
"Dragon Age is for they/them, JRPG's are for YOU"
"Dragon Age is for they/them, JRPG's are for YOU"
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
I have no horse in this race, but ShillUp's review is excruciating. Especially the writing quality snippets.
I'll spend time in ReFantazio alright.
I'll spend time in ReFantazio alright.
xenosys
Member
I don't put reviewers on a pedestal and get opinions from a variety of different sources, but he's one of the few that I do watch that actually explains with examples exactly what he's trying to convey when he likes or dislikes something. I appreciate that.
That way people can see for themselves 1st hand whether what he's saying actually carries some merit. In this case, it does.
Windom Earle
Member
Fetish simulator 2024
CloudShiner
Member
SkillUp skewered this trash to fuck!
"Every character interaction sounds like HR is in the room" that's one for the ages!!
I hope many
waste their money on this badly written junk.
"Every character interaction sounds like HR is in the room" that's one for the ages!!
I hope many
waste their money on this badly written junk.
mayham2199
Member
Just don't buy it. EA isn't running a charity if the game doesn't sell then they wont be making another ME game.
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sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
Fetish simulator 2024
If they/them/it were serious about making this a legitimate part of the story, you would be allowed to react negatively to a declaration like that from a character. The fact that there is no negative reaction allowed only proves that this game is one sided, and these piece of shit devs are lecturing you along the way. Fuck them.....this shit only stops if you dont buy it. Hopefully the whole dev team is gone if Bioware ever tries to do something again with this franchise. It's finished after this.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That should be on the cover on the box and in the accolades reel.
Mister Wolf
Member
The game is likely already well into development. Due to sunk cost fallacy it will continue to go on.
Dazraell
Member
Your character apparently can't be negative about anything. Like every dialogue option is written positively and each outcome is that you have to be a nice guy. And even if dialogue option shows something negative, the character doesn't say it and still remains nice lol
nowhat
Member
sloppyjoe_gamer
Gold Member
darrylgorn
Member
I thought the IGN guy said he was pleased, as a non-binary person, that they didn't shove this kinda stuff in his face lmfao
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Windom Earle
Member
#ToxicPositivity™ the game
geary
Member
Fetish simulator 2024
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
No dude, see, there are so many role playing possibilities. You can role play as a naive but open minded cisgender who learns to appreciate them as the amazing and beautiful people that they is, or else you can play as an ally and fierce champion of LGBTQIA2+ rights who owns the chuds, or even as a fellow nonbinary individual who finds a safe space with their motley crew of queer pansexual oddballs.
Just what I wanted from a Dragon Age game!
March Climber
Member
SkillUp did everything correct and I think it's worth pointing out.
- He laid out his issues with the game clearly and concisely
- He used multiple moments in the game to point it out to be sure that the audience knows he isn't cherry picking
- He used footage of older games in the same franchise and other post-Xbox gen Bioware franchises as direct comparison
- He didn't target any specific group with vitriolic comments nor did he grift the culture war audience for views.
- He brought up how there are ways to improve these issues in the future if any developer happens to watch his video
- He recommended watching other reviews for more perspective rather than just his own, near the end of the video
It is an extremely fair review and he simply came away from it not recommending the game.
This can't be real, can it?Whoaaa buddy
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
He should get a mug that says, "receding hairline."I remember thinking BioWare would get better after Andromeda. Remember this guy? He got axed after Andromeda flopped and went off to make a literal SJW game that I’m not sure ever got completed. BioWare keeps hiring people who sabotage their games.
hyperbertha
Member
For indies, they use the full scale for some reason. But for aaa they start at 6
SkylineRKR
Member
I saw it as well, he wasn't bashing the game but just disappointed by its direction and changes. He hoped the game would be good and succesful for BioWare's sake and perhaps for a new ME.
moxing
Neo Member
I'm always thrilled to see more trans folks in games. I think my problem with the dialogue I'm seeing so far is that it's this kind of doe-eyed "waow let's have a conversation about it" approach, which is tonally at odds with the setting. If the fruity little Qunari wants to switch things up, more power to them- but they shouldn't be having the conversation with the tone of like, a coworker in 2024 who's been figuring out identity stuff online with their pals in discord. The exact same conversation could be had, with the character saying something like, "y'know, all this she stuff isn't working out for me," and suggesting more neutral pronouns after someone makes a little observational humor over that dinner of big-ass honey hams they're having, I think it'd flow more naturally.
That whole "lines delivered like HR is in the room" observation definitely tracks with what I'm seeing here, and... I don't know, man. I'm in my thirties. I've been out as gay for longer than some people playing these games have been alive. I've lived in towns of 3,000 where calling someone queer is a prelude to a fistfight, and I've lived in Cap Hill in Washington where calling someone queer is like a secret fucking handshake. What's eating me is that both of those situations are a more natural and authentic experience than what's depicted in these screenshots. It's awkward and clunky to pump the brakes on the conversation for these kinds of things with the same tone as coming out to mom and dad. Aren't these other characters your colleagues? Your buds? You can trust them to take it more in stride- they've seen you barbecue a wild boar with lightning from thirty yards, I think they can accept whatever you throw at 'em without all the Very Special Episode vibes.
The whole "woke DEI SweetBaby marxist mafia" stuff doesn't bother me, fundamentally. I'm like, kind of the target audience, as an aging dyke with sixty dollars. But the actual presentation and execution is my problem. Hopefully these review highlights don't paint the whole picture and I'll find stuff I like between what makes me cringe, but I think I'd like to read some more reviews first, too. News outlets kind of have a responsibility to their click counter to put stuff that'll rile you up front and center, so I'd be best off reading half a dozen articles and taking an average.
That whole "lines delivered like HR is in the room" observation definitely tracks with what I'm seeing here, and... I don't know, man. I'm in my thirties. I've been out as gay for longer than some people playing these games have been alive. I've lived in towns of 3,000 where calling someone queer is a prelude to a fistfight, and I've lived in Cap Hill in Washington where calling someone queer is like a secret fucking handshake. What's eating me is that both of those situations are a more natural and authentic experience than what's depicted in these screenshots. It's awkward and clunky to pump the brakes on the conversation for these kinds of things with the same tone as coming out to mom and dad. Aren't these other characters your colleagues? Your buds? You can trust them to take it more in stride- they've seen you barbecue a wild boar with lightning from thirty yards, I think they can accept whatever you throw at 'em without all the Very Special Episode vibes.
The whole "woke DEI SweetBaby marxist mafia" stuff doesn't bother me, fundamentally. I'm like, kind of the target audience, as an aging dyke with sixty dollars. But the actual presentation and execution is my problem. Hopefully these review highlights don't paint the whole picture and I'll find stuff I like between what makes me cringe, but I think I'd like to read some more reviews first, too. News outlets kind of have a responsibility to their click counter to put stuff that'll rile you up front and center, so I'd be best off reading half a dozen articles and taking an average.
DragoonKain
Neighbours from Hell
Per SU's review, in addition to the writing and dialogue choice system being bad, from all the snippets he used, I was surprised at how bad the voice acting was. Maybe it was just anecdotal, but it also seemed like a downgrade from previous DA games. It was distractingly bad.
SkylineRKR
Member
I think the OT subtitle is a lock, then.
Return to form.
Return to form.
Itchy Tickles
Member
Seeing the names of these "reviewers" I can honestly say I still have no idea if the game is worth a go in the distant future. I think I recognise like 3 sites from that list, and funnily enough they didn't give it a perfect score. Feels like the highest scores are being purposely exaggerated for personal reasons and not them being "professional" at their jobs.
Saw a few screenshots in this thread too, hope they are fake just to cringe bait, otherwise these devs need to grow up.
Saw a few screenshots in this thread too, hope they are fake just to cringe bait, otherwise these devs need to grow up.
ChorizoPicozo
Member
...not binary form.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
Non-buy-nary
DonkeyPunchJr
World’s Biggest Weeb
man these dialog options look so fucking terrible.
I want to play as a hero who kicks ass and saves the world. Not as some therapist who talks to all these weirdos about their emotions and helps them process their feelings.
I want to play as a hero who kicks ass and saves the world. Not as some therapist who talks to all these weirdos about their emotions and helps them process their feelings.
dmaul1114
Banned
Read and watched some reviews and went ahead and pre-ordered.
I'm in an RPG with dialogue choices mood and have at least enjoyed past Biowsre games...even DA2 and ME Andromeda so seems safe I'll like this well enough.
Was going to hold off to start on PS5 Pro, but think I'll start this week so I can better notice any improvements when I switch over to Pro.
I'm in an RPG with dialogue choices mood and have at least enjoyed past Biowsre games...even DA2 and ME Andromeda so seems safe I'll like this well enough.
Was going to hold off to start on PS5 Pro, but think I'll start this week so I can better notice any improvements when I switch over to Pro.
