I think that they don't want the manga to pull ahead of the anime, they want the audiences attention on the anime version the most. But I could be wrong, idk.
Dragon Ball Super |OT6| Put your back into it.
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I think that they don't want the manga to pull ahead of the anime, they want the audiences attention on the anime version the most. But I could be wrong, idk.
Icyflamez96
Member
It doesn't matter if it's not the same. He's still an asshole for not just finishing from the start him off instead of "testing him out", just maybe not for the exact same reason.
From what I remember, manga Goku didn't even really have a chance to use that on Black in their first encounter anyway, right? Vegeta was still fighting Black, and Goku started fighting Zamasu. Zamasu's immortality caught him off guard and he hit Goku with that paralyzing attack or whatever it was. Then they had to retreat shortly after.
In regards to to the Kaoiken topic, it is similar as a last ditch move that would put him out of commission afterwards. Your point doesn't necessarily contradict that. Also, Kaoiken seemed to stop having that kind of affect on him after the U6 tournament saga anyway, as he can definitely use it more comfortably/seamlessly now. Many of the Kaoiken stakes/risks that existed in the U6 arc seem to be less of a concern now. Seems his body has grown more accustomed to it.
I doubt the general audience for the anime care about the manga unless there is data to support it. This not me not caring about the manga, this is me thinking the audience for an anime is bigger than manga especially for Dragon ball i would say the same thing for JoJo FMA and MHA
Haha same mind. The manga is seriously not that good. Still like the anime way more
Goku could have went SS 3 against Vegeta before Buu was revived. Oh and to counter your fusion point look at the Supreme Kai. He was fodder level against buu before he fused. And he was still fodder level after the fusion.
Goku could have easily blitzed Black in the Anise when they first meet. Why even bother to test put his strength. Oh and the Scythe is a big of an ass pull just as Goku's mastery. Wow, how convenient of him to be able to use that weapon when he needed it the most. Nope, you're right. Not an asspull, lol.
Icyflamez96
Member
The scythe is sick as fuck and I'd let that slide if he actually used it more. Black is already adept with using the ki blades so that seemed like a fitting extension/power-up
It doest matter. context is everything. Goku was testing Black and thought he had time to finished him. The reason he didn't because Black got sucked back through time.
Yes he did. He Future Trunks could of handled Future Zamasu since, according to Goku, Trunks was way stronger. The moment Vegeta went down, again, he could have rushed over and taking Black out himself. Goku wasn't even hurt in his encounter with Future Zamasu, just annoyed.
No, it isn't. The Kaioken has a risk just activating it. This Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan doesn't. Also, the Kaioken only stopped having this effect in the Universal Survival Saga. If Goku had mastered it to the extent he has now, he would have used it against Black and Merged Zamasu long before most of his limbs got broken. And this saga takes place months after the Future Trunks stuff.
That is true, but he mostly didn't to save Vegeta's pride. Why he cared about Vegeta's pride, I will never know. We never saw the Supreme Kai fight, so what level of fodder are we talking about? And Black and Future Zamasu are far stronger than Kibito and Shin with Black being within the level of Goku and Vegeta even if he was weaker.
Again, ignoring context. He thought he had time and he had no way of knowing that Black would be sucked back through time. And the scythe isn't an asspull since it's literally just an evolved version of the sword Black has been using this entire time, while mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Goku just came out of nowhere. And it isn't convenient since it came from Black discovering anger from Vegeta, which Black explained.
So no, not an asspull.
And he didn't used it when Merged Zamasu was bodying him because Vegeta and him decided to fight solo. Isn't he a genius.
Just thought about it and this could totally work. Full Power SSB Goku is only trying to stall Zamasu/Black until the fusion wears off. Once it wears off, if Goku's body is too messed to continue fighting, Trunks could still step in last minute and pull off something.
does that matter
Cell saga Trunks put in all the work but it was Gohan who got the win
Goku is totally an asshole. he was told that Black got stronger after fighting him and Goku still did the stupid "let's test this guy's strength" thing he does with everyone, instead of SSB KK exploding Black's face
edit: we don't know if Mastered SSB has any effect. The manga does hint that Goku's body is starting to give away and that Goku has trouble controlling it
Gohan didn't deserved it either.
Goku is a slow starter as he admits himself. And like I wrote, he thought he had time since he didn't expect Black to be sucked through the time patrol. Rushing isn't always good, as Vegeta vs. Hit will tell you.
I said activating it. The Kaioken had a chance of failure just by activating. Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan doesn't. The Mastered Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan works like the Kaioken from the Saiyan Saga, not the Champa Saga.
Icyflamez96
Member
Goku is an asshole for testing him instead of just being serious in the first place, is what I'm saying.
Goku didn't know how strong Zamasu was until he started fighting him. At that point, he planned to finish him quickly which is when he realizes he's immortal and gets paralyzed. After he gets hit with that attack is when Vegeta goes down, and Goku is in too bad of a condition to do anything and they retreat. He gets put back into his base state. It didn't "just annoy him". It's why Goku mentions in one of the recent chapters that it's the one attack he has to look out for when he fights Zamasu again.
I didn't say Goku "mastered" kaioken. I said his body got more accustomed to it. That 10% chance of it activating it rule clearly doesn't apply anymore with how simply he activates it now. Goku had only brought up the 10% chance guess in the U6 saga because he hadn't tried it before and wasn't sure if it was possible in the first place.
Something about that U10 scene just made me feel really bad for Gowasu and the team. Don't know if it was intentional, just something felt melancholy and futile about it to me, despite being funny on the surface. Like, they're all going to worse than die, but before they do they get this one little moment of team unity and fun and Gowasu gets to make his last little video. Because what the fuck else can they do?
This is what happens when you overthink scenes.
This is what happens when you overthink scenes.
Icyflamez96
Member
I know some people are going to hate this, but I also don't think Vegeta deserved the kill on Frieza during the RoF saga. Goku was the one who did all the work.
But I don't really care that much about who deserves what, I just like cool moments. I definitely would have enjoyed Vegeta getting that kill on Freiza.
Dude I had these same feelings about the scene, I just couldn't put it into words really. Nice job.
At first I just felt really bad for Gowasu, but then it revealed that he's being sorta a loon too. It was lowkey somber.
He wasn't being an asshole in this case since he was trying to see what Black could do before going full power.
He can sense ki, what do you mean he didn't know. Goku even says in their first encounter that he's nothing. And too bad of condition, he was barely hurt. The only bad condition was done by himself since he disengaged Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan for some freaking reason.
It only doesn't apply now. You can say it didn't during the Future Trunks Saga. And it wasn't because he didn't try it before. He said that since he hasn't master it yet and it was an incomplete technique, him activating it was low.
Undead Fantasy
Member
Well if that was the case then Toei made the right choice.
Glad I'm not the only one.
It is my honest hope that either by luck, or it turning out that they're actually all really powerful despite what it may seem, that U10 wins.
Oh! I was banned when I first mentioned this elsewhere:
I do think that all of the losing universes will be destroyed and that the Super Dragon Balls can't save them, but I don't believe the PEOPLE in those universes will be. This is an asshole containment plan.
Basically I've been thinking, and the moment they mentioned how few planets have sentient life confirmed this for me, that Xeno is just going to shove all of the people and worlds from the tournament into the winning universe, thereby reducing the multiverse to 4 really good ones and 1 wherein all of the assholes have been dumped and hopefully they can improve one another.
I guess it depends how toei is will to deviate from his outline.
But they said the GoDs would be erased with their entire universe
Or they're all clones of Goku gone wrong.
Yeah. I expect at the start of the royale for someone to just immidately do some type of move or power-up that has enough power to blow out the majority of people out of the ring.
Possibly Jiren or Kale going Broly to estahbilish the stakes and the main opponent or "bad guy" or someone we hanven't seen to take us by surprise
sleverfunk
Member
Subarashī!!
Icyflamez96
Member
This is fair, though I think your mindset here contradicts the next part of your post.
If your argument is "he could sense ki" then he should theoretically know how strong GB from the start right? That's not how it works, because Goku wouldn't know what transformations/power increasing techniques he's holding. Anyway, Goku only made that comment about Zamasu's strength after he started fighting him and got a feel for his power, not before. And Goku definitely was affected greatly by the attack. He gets hit by it, thrown on the ground, weakened to the point that he can't hold his form anymore. And when he's walking back he's super beat up and holding his arm. Why would he benin that condition for no reason? That's like saying Cabba dropped his Super Saiyan form "for no reason" after he got punched by SSB Vegeta.
If it really did "just annoy him" then I don't think he would be so concerned about getting hit back the attack in their later encounter.
When he went SSB Kaoiken in the U6 saga, It then also took him a good long powerup session to reach it. In the Goku Black saga, he did it basically instantaneously. I think that makes it obvious that he is more accustomed to it by then.
This wouldn't shock me at all. I mean Gohan changed the weather in like a 100 mile radius of his location when he went ultimate, so whoever does it is going to likely be the final boss of the tournament. I imagine Jiren.
Just_myles
Member
Man I like the way the manga is handling this. SSB should be a difficult transformation to attain and master. The anime seems to not acknowledge this since everyone and their mom seems to be able to counter it.
Being able to sense ki doesn't necessary mean you know everything the person can do. Look at Hit. Power-wise, he's inferior to Goku and Vegeta. With his ability, however, he can easily trash them.
Future Zamasu stands out because Goku was trying to defeat him and he wasn't testing him at all. And most of Goku weakness came from him disengaging Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, for no real reason, and going to a basic Super Saiyan, not because Zamasu actually did any real damage. Zamasu didn't knock him out off is god form, just look at Chapter 20 page 24. Even then, he was in good enough shape to walk.
He may have gotten better at it to an extent, but he still didn't used it until most of his limbs were broken and he had no chance of escaping Merged Zamasu.
Goku and Vegeta had Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan for over four years in-universe. It makes no sense for them to still struggle with it.
And the only named people who can counter Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan are: Hit (1000 years old assassin who is the strongest warrior in U6), Goku Black (a prodigy Supreme Kai who has Goku's body), Future Zamasu (an immortal who is a prodigy Supreme Kai and he's still weaker than Goku), Super Saiyan Rage Trunks (a new form made from anger and still below Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan), Toppo (someone who is a candidate to be a God of Destruction), Android 17 (an android made to kill Goku who has infinite energy and we don't know if he can fight Goku at full power), Gohan (Goku's son with a lot of hidden power and we don't know if he can fight full power Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan), and Jiren (the ace of Universe 11 who is stronger than the candidate to be the next God of Destruction). This isn't "everyone and their mom". The manga just makes everyone look weak, not Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan look powerful.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Didn't they say that the manga was gonna pull ahead of the anime for a bit, either they are gonna have some massive pacing issues in the coming months or they went back on that
Icyflamez96
Member
That's sort of my point though. Goku can't know exactly how strong someone is without fighting them. Same goes to Zamasu in that instance. It doesn't only apply to special techniques that don't involve powering up. (Such as Hit's Skip)
Oh you mean how Goku went down from SSB to SSJ. If he knows he can overcome Zamasu's power in SSJ then it's better that Goku go down to SSJ to take care of it so he had as much power as possible for Black, especially considering how much of a problem the manga makes out SSB's power drain. He was walking but that doesn't mean he's not badly beat up/weakened from the attack, it still put him in base form from SSJ. He had mad battle damage after that and was walking with his arm held.
When Goku used the "mastered SSB" form, he was in perfect condition. Goku wouldn't be able to use it nearly as effectively anyway in a weakened state.
Goku's Kaioken activation was still instant, when comparing it to the U6 arc where he powered up for a minute, drops it altogether, then powers up again and being excited that it worked. That's a pretty big difference in accustomization. (yes that's a word i looked it up)
Mister Wolf
Member
You can thank Goku for those feelings. Hopefully they are stronger than they look. Appearances can be deceiving Majin Buu taught us that.
Just_myles
Member
Nah, I don't think so. You're list sounds about right to me and that is pretty much everyone. I'm not sure your reasoning helps your argument at all. To me, you simply listed a bunch of names that can counter SSB. Thank you for making my point.
The manga has Trunks at the proper level. He can match SS3 but, can't go any higher. To me that comports with his current situation of having no training partners with the exception of Kaoishin. Also correct me if i'm wrong but, it took Vegeta years just to get to SSJ2 and Goku just as long to get SSJ3 (which he did not perfect right away). So I can see four years and still having some issues with a new form.
The anime is trying to sell merchandise, so I guess it would make sense to have as many forms as possible.
Hellwarden
Member
Well at least Cabba might get laid before his universe goes kaput.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I sincerely hope vegeta visits universe 6 saiyans like he said.
and makes himself king
He usually has a clue. If he didn't know what Zamasu could do, he should have used one of his lower Super Saiyan forms, like Super Saiyan God he loves that. Yet, he starts at full power and powers down in the middle of the battle, which I still don't understand why he did it.
He should have stayed Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan simply because he suffers a massive energy drop like Vegeta did against Hit. So he wouldn't be good against Black since he would be basically like Vegeta fighting Hit. And since he fought Zamasu, he should know that his Super Saiyan form was weaker than him since Zamasu is at least within the range of Super Saiyan 2 Trunks who is equal to his Super Saiyan 3. I mean, why not used Super Saiyan God or even Super Saiyan 2? Why did he drop all the way down to Super Saiyan?
Since he only need to attack Black once giving how massively powerful that form is, he wouldn't need to be in prime condition. The same with Merged Zamasu round 1 where Goku was trying everything he could to beat Merged Zamasu, yet didn't think to used this form. Remember he didn't know about the time limit.
Beint instant doesn't mean there were no risks just activating it. Just the the odds were higher than 10% and he didn't need to charged it. It could have been even money as far as we know, but the fact that Goku didn't used it until he was nearly disabled is telling.
The fact is, if Goku gave an explanation as to why he waited so long to used this mastered form, it would have worked better, much like what Goku did against Hit. It could have been as simple as, "This form is far from perfect and I could die using it, but now I have no choice". Instead we get a line about Goku's body breaking after he used it for several minutes. Which is why the question "why didn't he used it sooner" is being asked.
There have been a lot of characters introduced in Super and that list is far from everyone. That is like saying everyone in One Piece knows Haki despite it being limited to a few dozen characters with a series with hundreds of named characters.
Out of the five member of the U6 team, only Hit competes with Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan.
Goku Black and Future Zamasu were the primary villains of the Future Trunks Saga, with one of them using Goku's own body against him.
Tournament of Power: Out of the characters from the exhibition matches, only Toppo is on Goku's level and he wasn't even officially part of the roster.
U7 team: Only Vegeta, Gohan, and Android 17 are on par with Goku out of nine other people.
The manga has Trunks stronger than he should be since he's only has Super Saiyan 2, yet is able to challenged Super Saiyan 3 Goku. Anime Trunks couldn't do that, was weaker than Super Saiyan 2, and only got so strong thanks to Super Saiyan Rage. And taking years getting a form doesn't mean it takes years to master it, especially a form that is build on being calm and having great energy control. When Goku wanted to master Super Saiyan, he did it in less than a year and we don't know how long it took Vegeta to get Super Saiyan 2. We also don't know how long it took Goku to get Super Saiyan 2 and 3. On top of that, Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is literally just basic Super Saiyan with god ki. It isn't even a new form, which makes even less sense for them to take so long to master it.
This isn't about merchandise, especially when the manga made Super Saiyan God Vegeta a thing and is still using Super Saiyan God Goku and even had him used it in his Resurrection 'F' outfit, while the anime didn't.
Undead Fantasy
Member
The Silver
Member
Caulifla's probably gonna call Geets an old man and completely disrespect him while Cabba panics.
RocknRola
Member
Why would he ever do that? Unlike Frieza, which can be "controled" by Goku, Vegeta and perhaps 17+Gohan, Zamasu would likely only really fear his God of Destruction. If that, even. Dude is/was cray-cray.
Orochinagis
Member
Oh, frost got stronger by hiding from the police. Take that logic
I like how both are súper skinny but able to be súper saiyan anyway
Well at least Cabba might get laid before his universe goes kaput.
I like how both are súper skinny but able to be súper saiyan anyway
Cabba will tell her that's the only way to turn SSJ.
Well at least Cabba might get laid before his universe goes kaput.
Honestly Zamasu would probably be glad worthless universes would get erased
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