Dragon's Crown Reviews
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Jacksonlee
Member
like the 19 century attitude of having respectable women?
that's a good point. we're far from that era.
Knux-Future
Banned
The funny part is that the Amazon is probably the "worst" in term of objectificatation. Her Ass is almost always pointed towards the screen lol.
That is probably easily explained by Amazons not giving any fucks about no one tho.
I still struggle with the idea that big tits and ass equals sexist.
It's really lame.
That's my biggest hang up here.
Stuff like women only being in games to be saved? Sure. I get it.
No strong female leads? Hell yeah that is lame.
A character with big tits that jiggle?..ehhhhhhh no.
In DOA it is obvious that the cheesecake factor is the goal (dem continue screens in DOA5 where pretty bad). Here? I just dont get that and even if it was the goal....like let's pretend it was the only goal here (if it was I highly doubt it would look this way btw). So?
Cheesecake isn't bad. It only gets bad (to me at least) when it gets into the loli territory...or creepy raper guy fantasies. This isn't it. DOA is close but Kasumi is basically Jesus in those games sooooo.
Bu-but there is sooo many games like it..
not really. DOA is constantly brought up as the perv 3d fighter because it basically is it (SC got close there during 3 and 4 tho..). There aren't tons of Dragon's Crowns out there. There are many games like KiD being made nowadays. Ironically these "immature" games aren't exactly the norm. Safe sterile bullshit is.
If this is one of those gaming needs to mature things then fuck off. I don't need all of my games being super serial games about emotions and other pretentious shit. thank you.
That is probably easily explained by Amazons not giving any fucks about no one tho.
I still struggle with the idea that big tits and ass equals sexist.
It's really lame.
That's my biggest hang up here.
Stuff like women only being in games to be saved? Sure. I get it.
No strong female leads? Hell yeah that is lame.
A character with big tits that jiggle?..ehhhhhhh no.
In DOA it is obvious that the cheesecake factor is the goal (dem continue screens in DOA5 where pretty bad). Here? I just dont get that and even if it was the goal....like let's pretend it was the only goal here (if it was I highly doubt it would look this way btw). So?
Cheesecake isn't bad. It only gets bad (to me at least) when it gets into the loli territory...or creepy raper guy fantasies. This isn't it. DOA is close but Kasumi is basically Jesus in those games sooooo.
Bu-but there is sooo many games like it..
not really. DOA is constantly brought up as the perv 3d fighter because it basically is it (SC got close there during 3 and 4 tho..). There aren't tons of Dragon's Crowns out there. There are many games like KiD being made nowadays. Ironically these "immature" games aren't exactly the norm. Safe sterile bullshit is.
If this is one of those gaming needs to mature things then fuck off. I don't need all of my games being super serial games about emotions and other pretentious shit. thank you.
Nymphae
Banned
Agreed. And I just don't get the outrage over cartoon boobs honestly, in a toy aimed at teenage males. I like to think I am a very respectful and polite person (I'm Canadian eh!), and I like to draw women like that as well. Am I a monster? Do I have a social responsibility to stop drawing what I enjoy aesthetically because it is an unobtainable and impossible construction of someone's mind? Sigh.
I'd prefer the game to not be made around leveling and loot in the first place, myself, but I'm clearly in the minority.
NavyPharaoh
Member
They lost all credibility with the sim city fiasco, and to add shit to garbage with the 7.5 it gave The last of us.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
SEE THE CHINESE DREW THEM ANIMES WITH THE BIG GOOGLY EYES SEXUALIZING THE WOMEN WITH UNREALISTIC STANDARDS
NOW THEM ASIAN GIRLS ARE GLUING THEIR EYES OPEN SO THEY CAN BE 'SUPER KEWAI' (a japanese term that means intensely sexually attractive) LIKE THEY SEE IN THEIR PERVERTED CARTOONS AIMED AT 5 YEAR OLDS TO INDOCTRINATE THEM
ALL ARTISTS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT EXAGGERATE PHYSICAL FEATURES
NOW THEM ASIAN GIRLS ARE GLUING THEIR EYES OPEN SO THEY CAN BE 'SUPER KEWAI' (a japanese term that means intensely sexually attractive) LIKE THEY SEE IN THEIR PERVERTED CARTOONS AIMED AT 5 YEAR OLDS TO INDOCTRINATE THEM
ALL ARTISTS HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO NOT EXAGGERATE PHYSICAL FEATURES
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
You are, personally I feel it adds to a game like this. Hell the old D&D arcade games technically had leveling and loot you just didn't get to keep it.
To be perfectly honest, when I played Diablo 3, I really wish there was an option to skip the first, and maybe second playthrough. Just have it start you at at a default level for that difficulty, even if you started naked. The first two difficulties were just completely mindless and boring as hell, especially if you are playing a new character after having beaten the game once.
We'll have to see how it plays out in Dragon's Crown though. It hopefully will not be as boring to play the lower difficulties.
This whole modern stigmatization towards boobs is one of the stupidest things I can think of. Why is it that a small chested woman in one dress gets looked at as cute and innocent, while a large chested woman has to be constantly self conscious of what she wears in fear of being judged as being slutty, trashy, etc. It's why whenever someone brings up a "well presented female character" the first thing that gets said is how small her boobs are. A character like Elena who's often regarded as one of the better examples of a female character, which I agree with, would instantly have all her character traits be forgotten and would be an example of pandering, sexist, misogynistic, etc if she just so happened to have a c or d cup. It's ironic how the same people who are supposedly in favor of women's rights and personal freedom, are also the same people who seem to have a pretty limited and narrow view on what a woman is supposed to be in order to not be this or that. The whole thing is just gross.
meltingparappa
Member
Grab yer pitchforks and your TGS press badges, there's some cross-cultural morality shaming to be done!
AcceptableGhost
Member
all that persistent leveling / loot does to this genre is make it fucking boring as seen by every game in the genre this generation
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Yeah people sure didn't gobble up castle crashers... oh wait they did.
You say leveling up and unlocking stuff and doing different character builds is boring but having the same core set of moves from the very start every time you play isnt?
AcceptableGhost
Member
bad game
Yeah, let's include reviews we don't agree with as a reason to ban a site. Always a solid way to make a point.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Tain leans back in his chair, looks towards God, and quietly whispers "why..."
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Is DMC a bad game because you have to unlock dantes moves every time you play a fresh file? The characters in this have moves and abilities they unlock along the way. I fail to see how this is bad. It draws the player to want to come back and see how much stronger they can become with the next skill or try new builds.
This game isn't a straight arcade beat em up. It's an RPG/Beat em up
Rickenslacker
Banned
I'm the same, it doesn't seem like you can make a beat 'em up in the current age without at least a level up system unfortunately. It's the most off-putting aspect of the game for me, but that's not enough to dissuade me from the game.
bishopcruz
Member
it's 2013 and people are still don't realize that the "men are objectified" argument can actually be valid in certain scenarios.
I want to be honest, I found your comparison pretty strange ... Anyway, I respect your opinion, but I think sometime, beauty is not always in the eye of the beholder (and yep, I know that!)
Riposte
Member
If nothing else the option would be nice lol.
But seriously, as it has been said, that is bad game design to begin with. The very least they can do is make the initial difficulties not seem like a drag. To have me beat a game two to three times before I'm enjoying myself is too much (it is more than usual even among offenders). I don't want my relationship with designers to be one where they try to get me to play their game as long as possible at the expense of my pleasure, despite my skill level. They should trust me to hang onto to their game if it is fun. You'd think the loot system would be enough to get people playing these levels multiple times.
I'm pretty consistent on this issue. I've even blasted Bayonetta over it, but that game (and quite a few like it) seems to have a way better normal (easy) mode than this one.
EDIT: We talking about Castle Crashers now? Goddamn.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I don't even know how to respond to this post, every sentence is like a minefield of bad logic. If you can't tell the difference between what red orbs are in Devil May Cry and what happens in this game, I don't know what to say to you honestly.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Red Orbs are experience you use to buy skills and you need to beat the game to play the harder difficulties
Oh and you need to progress through a large portion of the game to have access to most of your skills Explain the bad logic in this
Using fanart to prove your point. Ouch.
Something tells me you might like this though:
It's not like Kamitani hasn't studied art or anything.
vitiosuslepos
Neo Member
Honestly, Golden Axe and other side-scrolling brawlers is the closest comparison
Giolon
Member
I believe you could enjoy it if you enjoyed those. It is at heart, a side-scroller beat 'em up. It's just got loot and leveling. Have you played D&D Chronicles of Mystara that was released on PSN/XBLA recently? This game is a spiritual successor to it.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
I didn't know this game had local couch co-op. That along with the reviews make it a day one buy for me.
And yeah the Polygon review sounds completely ridiculous. I'm not even going to give it a click.
And yeah the Polygon review sounds completely ridiculous. I'm not even going to give it a click.
It's already been suggested in this thread, but it's probably more accurate to compare this game's art direction to a Frank Frazetta painting.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Diablo mixed with the old D&D arcade games. Watch some gameplay footage.
http://www.twitch.tv/themasterll/old *spoilers obviously*
Well, I know it's hard to be objective, but if a reviewer has any basic knowledge about game design, yep, it's pretty simple to be (a bit) objective.
The score? I never found that number so important, but in the end, isn't that small number the summary of the reviewer' thoughts?
Jacksonlee
Member
Using fanart to prove your point. Ouch.
Something tells me you might like this though:
It's not like Kamitani hasn't studied art or anything.
at this point, he's excluded Kamitani's art style and has focused on the body proportion that he is endorsing by creating a game such as Dragon's crown.
so he is disgusted by the unrealistic body of females of the game. fine.
let's end it at that.
Vire
Member
That was not intentional, all I did was a google image search and I chose one that I saw someone had an avatar of. The actual game looks no different in its character design.Using fanart to prove your point. Ouch.
Something tells me you might like this though:
It's not like Kamitani hasn't studied art or anything.
And yes that picture is much more respectful. Shame the actual game isn't portrayed that way.
My point wasn't that the person drawing the characters was without talent. He clearly has some, and the worlds and environments behind the characters are beautiful.
If this game needed to have the character customization aspect (unlike the very not boring existing masterpieces in the genre), they could do it in a way more controlled manner. I'd be totally fine with shops between stages that let you choose from a few extra moves with tight cash or advance through a small skill tree that lasts for the playthrough or whatever.
But the quests, levels, and loot structure in Dragon's Crown and Diablo and Borderlands and PSO and so on is nothing like that. It puts a much larger of focus on making a lot of comparatively smaller and more boring decisions. And what's worse, it never stops you from increasing the power of your character, either, unlike a structure that only lets you play a given stage once in a playthrough, so even those small and boring decisions can become non-decisions.
ViewtifulJC said:
State of the belt scroll! Imagine if this genre had a following similar in volume to the "we need oldschool" FPS movement, lol.
Vire
Member
I have not unfortunately, is there going to be a demo or trial at all for this game?
AcceptableGhost
Member
at this rate the only way we will get a proper new title in the genre is if someone who gets it sits down and makes one
Delusibeta
Banned
Except it's not, how can anyone honestly believe this? Please tell me what exactly is "objective good game design."
VanillaCakeIsBurning
Member
In ENB's review he talked about how the difficulty in Normal/Hard mode is kind of bad. As in after you beat normal mode hard mode is not enough of a bump in challenge. I think remember him saying that he almost dropped the game at one point.
He persevered however and gave a lot of praise to infernal and chaos modes (more chaos mode) due to the chaos dungeon place being unlocked.
The higher difficulties also add more elite enemies, new boss attacks and things like that.
Designing the game so players with a higher skill level can have their desire of challenge sated properly is good game design I think.
I think that's why game's usually let you choose the difficulty at the start. I know some game's have unlockable difficulties but I think making changes as to allow Normal/Hard/Inferno selectable from the start would have been good for accomodating all players. You would still have Chaos mode to unlock, this way you wouldn't have to play 3 times to unlock it.
I'm still going to buy the game though, sure there are some negatives but overall I think I'm going to enjoy the game a lot. Same with every other VanillaWare title I've had the fortune of playing.
He persevered however and gave a lot of praise to infernal and chaos modes (more chaos mode) due to the chaos dungeon place being unlocked.
The higher difficulties also add more elite enemies, new boss attacks and things like that.
Designing the game so players with a higher skill level can have their desire of challenge sated properly is good game design I think.
I think that's why game's usually let you choose the difficulty at the start. I know some game's have unlockable difficulties but I think making changes as to allow Normal/Hard/Inferno selectable from the start would have been good for accomodating all players. You would still have Chaos mode to unlock, this way you wouldn't have to play 3 times to unlock it.
I'm still going to buy the game though, sure there are some negatives but overall I think I'm going to enjoy the game a lot. Same with every other VanillaWare title I've had the fortune of playing.
It comes out in less than a week. Pretty much no.
Man, you really went from "I cant believe these outrageous artistic decisions!" to "Tell me about this game I am intrigued" pretty damn quickly.
I see dinner was enough time to collect your thoughts =P
Tylahedras
Banned
Mother. Fucking. Polygon.
To downscore a game because you think the art is poor is fine. To downscore a game because you find it morally wrong makes me very, very mad.
HULK SMASH POLYGON GRRRRRRRRRR!
To downscore a game because you think the art is poor is fine. To downscore a game because you find it morally wrong makes me very, very mad.
HULK SMASH POLYGON GRRRRRRRRRR!
I can tell that page was written by bitter fanboys. Especially the parts about the original 8.8 itself.
Exactly what makes it more respectful? The fact that her boobs are small? Because again, if big boobs equals distasteful, than how do you feel about actual women with large breasts? Are they somehow distasteful to them self? Are they a bad representation of women? I just don't understand where this stigmatization towards boobs or anything sexualized gets construed as being distasteful.
Vire
Member
The gameplay looks appealing to me and I actually just finished my backlog worth of games, so im eyeing a few things to play. I can possibly look past the questionable things I disagree with if its fun.
I haven't changed my stance on the characters of the game, but I understand why people are excited to play this.
They aren't small first off, secondly it's about the tone and elegance of the composition.
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