Dragon's Crown Reviews
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Vire
Member
Exactly what I was saying earlier, why is she wearing that clothing? What is it in service of?
Is it part of her character to cleverly and smartly seduce otherwise foolish men, using her charms?
If so then fine, but it seems like there is no real purpose other than fan service.
I haven't played it, but it doesn't seem like it is. From what I've seen of it it looks like a world similar to a default Dungeons and Dragons kind of world where men and women have equal opportunity for adventure and derring-do. But then all the women (except for the female main characters) end up tied up or with demon dog heads pulling their legs apart suggestively.
Ultimadrago
Member
it doesn't exist. Men aren't sexualized in the same way as women.
SlasherJPC
Banned
I asked this on twitter but what do you think about this?
"Everyone upset about Dragons Crown artistic choices concerning females.Serious question, did you play Witcher 2, and did it bother you then?"
I'm really curious to see what the difference is and why.
"Everyone upset about Dragons Crown artistic choices concerning females.Serious question, did you play Witcher 2, and did it bother you then?"
I'm really curious to see what the difference is and why.
Nymphae
Banned
With regards to the Polygon review, I just don't understand why they would put someone like her on the review other than to stir up controversy. Her first line in the video review is "Dragon's Crown is a teenage boys dream." So why put an adult female on the review when you almost definitely have other reviewers who are more interested in that type of experience? I'm not saying her opinion isn't valid, I'm just saying I don't think a lot of the teenage boys who are interested in some opinions on the game get much out of this review other than "I'm not saying you should feel bad for liking this, but...".
Riposte
Member
Rising_Hei
Member
This kind of dicussion is so stupid... as are websites who are against this game for that reason 
These are just games, if you don't like it GTFO and go bitch elsewhere. Games are lovely because they aren't the reality, and i rather see a videogame character sexualized and with many skin that the typical top model who is just bones and whose life can easily be in danger because of it
These are just games, if you don't like it GTFO and go bitch elsewhere. Games are lovely because they aren't the reality, and i rather see a videogame character sexualized and with many skin that the typical top model who is just bones and whose life can easily be in danger because of it
Knux-Future
Banned
Look.
Like I said in like a gazillion threads....
I don't particularly care for this art style. I'll probably play as the Elf (mainly due to playstyle) and when I create females in games, their breasts aren't normally ginormous. That being said, I am more than happy it exists. I am sure some dude wanks to this...but some dude wanks to Winnie the Pooh...so that's not a reason to hate it.
It's just that the whole outrage against it is so damn frustrating especially since to me it's for the wrong reasons. Kitamani explained it and even if it was just because he likes big tits/butts and he cannot lie. so what?
people act like every game looks like this...when it actually doesn't. This game is pretty unique in how insanely over the top it is. Just like how Insanely silly KiD is. and yet when these are the games that are singled out as "the problem" the message that gets out isn't "well maybe we should create better female leads yo" but instead "welp enough of that weird shit...it offends people...more safe focus tested games for us". and that sucks. I think almost every type of game deserves a shot, and being the PC police ruins that. (and before the criticism isn't asking for it be censored dudes show up..stfu..if you feel that strongly against it..then wtf are you asking for but for there not to be anymore games like it? less? There arent many Dragon's crowns out there...That's my issue...you are asking for there to be less Dragons Crowns. fuck that.). Even shlock like Senran Sakura (or Ninja Tits), if only because the director is gdlk in his honesty. Stuff like rapeplay where the actual goal is to harm women is where the line is crossed for me. Pedoshit and stuff like that is where it gets hard to defend..
That is my big issue with this whole outrage, these articles and threads aren;t attackig the right targets and to me it feels weak. They are targeting stuff that isn't really going to make ripples and only asking for niche games to be even more niche or not exist at all.
Plus shaming or being negative fixes nothing. It only stifles people into fearing offending people (a slippery ass slope there)...how bout we promote games that do have great female leads...or create more. Wagging your fingers at Dragons Crown changes nothing.
and in the end...I still question how this harmful.
You don't like it? cool. I get that like I said I often don't like art like this either but when people act like this is the worst thing ever and is harming gaming or is immature is where I get a bit pissed.
And if you just want to start a conversation...pick a better damn game because all your conversation is saying is "this weird japansese stuff is offensive because big tits" and that goes nowhere.
There. I think I have rehashed myself from the last 23234 threads on this.
Like I said in like a gazillion threads....
I don't particularly care for this art style. I'll probably play as the Elf (mainly due to playstyle) and when I create females in games, their breasts aren't normally ginormous. That being said, I am more than happy it exists. I am sure some dude wanks to this...but some dude wanks to Winnie the Pooh...so that's not a reason to hate it.
It's just that the whole outrage against it is so damn frustrating especially since to me it's for the wrong reasons. Kitamani explained it and even if it was just because he likes big tits/butts and he cannot lie. so what?
people act like every game looks like this...when it actually doesn't. This game is pretty unique in how insanely over the top it is. Just like how Insanely silly KiD is. and yet when these are the games that are singled out as "the problem" the message that gets out isn't "well maybe we should create better female leads yo" but instead "welp enough of that weird shit...it offends people...more safe focus tested games for us". and that sucks. I think almost every type of game deserves a shot, and being the PC police ruins that. (and before the criticism isn't asking for it be censored dudes show up..stfu..if you feel that strongly against it..then wtf are you asking for but for there not to be anymore games like it? less? There arent many Dragon's crowns out there...That's my issue...you are asking for there to be less Dragons Crowns. fuck that.). Even shlock like Senran Sakura (or Ninja Tits), if only because the director is gdlk in his honesty. Stuff like rapeplay where the actual goal is to harm women is where the line is crossed for me. Pedoshit and stuff like that is where it gets hard to defend..
That is my big issue with this whole outrage, these articles and threads aren;t attackig the right targets and to me it feels weak. They are targeting stuff that isn't really going to make ripples and only asking for niche games to be even more niche or not exist at all.
Plus shaming or being negative fixes nothing. It only stifles people into fearing offending people (a slippery ass slope there)...how bout we promote games that do have great female leads...or create more. Wagging your fingers at Dragons Crown changes nothing.
and in the end...I still question how this harmful.
You don't like it? cool. I get that like I said I often don't like art like this either but when people act like this is the worst thing ever and is harming gaming or is immature is where I get a bit pissed.
And if you just want to start a conversation...pick a better damn game because all your conversation is saying is "this weird japansese stuff is offensive because big tits" and that goes nowhere.
There. I think I have rehashed myself from the last 23234 threads on this.
Deified Data
Banned
I really like the idea of playing this on Vita, but once I'm done I can't think of anything else I'd play on Vita...
I actually go pretty in depth with the mechanics in my review in the OP (Gamer Horizon), as well as the importance of money in the game and other such things that other reviews have glossed over.
Pretty much, the vibe that you get from playing the game is like that it's a "long lost sequel" to Capcom's Dungeons & Dragons beat 'em ups, which I reference heavily and contextualize in my article.
In fact, the last battle echoes very much the last battle in Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow over Mystara.
southerncross
Member
Why would you agree with this score if you haven't played the game, especially that even genre lovers who haven't played it yet don't know what to make of it?
IHaveCandy
Banned
What good is your baseless cynicism doing?
Vire
Member
By overall aesthetics and visuals you mean it's in service of using the visuals to appeal to a certain type of person right?
EDIT: And secondly are you seriously trying to compare high art classical paintings to Dragon Crown use of female proportions?
AcceptableGhost
Member
I am pretty sure this will still be a boring slog like every other Vanillaware game. Hearing words like "repeated content in second half" from reviews/people who have played the game should be enough to warn people unless you have an extreme appetite for this great art.
Edit: I will probably end up playing it at some point due to me being a terrible person.
Edit: I will probably end up playing it at some point due to me being a terrible person.
Northeastmonk
Gold Member
Anyone know of a place that's selling it for under the suggested retail price?
vitiosuslepos
Neo Member
Going back to which platform to play it on, I think Vita is a good option if you don't intend to get both. I really like poking the screen to search for loot, and that's a lot more intuitive than using the analog stick to drag a cursor around.
Plus, makes it waaaay easier to activate runes on the fly.
Plus, makes it waaaay easier to activate runes on the fly.
IHaveCandy
Banned
You're saying most men act on instinct without any higher mental processes controlling their actions when it comes to sex and seductiveness. That's incredibly insulting. If I were trying to make an attractive female, I would probably start with what I find attractive. Simply nailing big boobs onto a female is not what I or most men would do.
CambriaRising
Member
Fair enough. That was my point anyway.
Deified Data
Banned
Same reason mages always wear robes into a dangerous dungeon filled with sword-wielding skeletons: rule of cool.
Riposte
Member
"Certain type of people" being the artist and anyone who enjoys the artist work, likely. In this case and the secondary example, I posit it to be "beauty". People like to look at beautiful things.
That does seem to be the case (although not exclusively). I give you permission to continue as if I am.
IHaveCandy
Banned
The fact that a whopping total of 3 women are shown being able to fight doesn't mean it is a society based on equality. I think the world showing women only as peasant farmers or royalty is a bigger sign of what the game is set in.
Delusibeta
Banned
I do: Persona 4 Golden. Also the better version of Virtue's Last Reward, also all the shit Sony gives me as part of my PS+ subscription, including Gravity Rush. Seriously, if you've been on PS+ for the last six months or so, you should have built up a mighty PSVita catalogue by now. And if you haven't got PS+, you missed out. Seriously. Stock up in a couple of years, since you're going to be needing it for PS4 anyway, and prepare for Sony to shovel large quantities of game down your interwebs every month.
Memo to self: nab Disgaea 3 before it goes out of print. Probably at the same time as me picking up the EU version of this game (based NISA).
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
This is just ridiculous. Does Miranda have a reason for wearing a skin tight suit when she is going to face guns on the battlefield?
njean777
Member
Why can he not? Doesn't change anything, people cannot draw inspiration from that anymore?
IHaveCandy
Banned
Why are the Dwarf and Amazon practically nude? Why is the Fighter the only sane one wearing protective armor? Why are you being selective with your questioning?
Knux-Future
Banned
The fucking artist literally mentioned them.
He said he took those and then exaggerated the gender specific aspects.
which he fucking did.
like what the fuck
Cause the medium is not a century old yet, I guess
Well, there's an in-game explanation for that. She's was biologically engineered to be an aesthetically perfect woman by her father.
But for the record I also considered her outfit to be dumb as hell.
Yeah, I would have preferred not to purchase the game twice, but for Dragon's Crown, I will. It helps that I'm getting the Vita version for a cheaper price thanks to Futureshop's past E3 promotion. >
As for how long, I believe the it's around 15 hours or so for a character if you don't rush and take your time doing side-quests, running through levels a few times for items, etc. Multiple that by as many characters as you want to play as and you get your estimate.
Personally, I'm happy with the base 15+ hours for the initial play-through although knowing me I will easily double that since I'll want to gear up my character. Then I'll likely move onto my secondary character and repeat the process with him/her.
Either way, I look forward to it.
meltingparappa
Member
Note her torso and arm proportions, where her breast is relative to where her rib cage should be, the suggestive look on her face, and the general aesthetics that conform to what was "attractive" during its time.
Dragon's Crown is hardly the first piece of art to exaggerate a human form for the sake of expression.
njean777
Member
How does that have anything to do with what she wears? All that pertains to is her physical qualities, not her clothes...
Well if the society in the game is based on male dominance and subservient women then that is a pretty messed up choice to make during fictional world building.
Jacksonlee
Member
i'm just stating, this game's character designs are merely one interpretation of the human body from the creator - there isn't anything of the sort out there right now, and the over exaggeration of the body -although it goes beyond the status of whats... accepted in the gaming standards, gives an interesting take on how the human body is portrayed as.
why are we criticizing that? because it's sexist? you're being sexist for criticizing the very designs of the sorc and ignoring the elf.
because it's unrealistic? please. this game is not meant to mirror realism. look for that elsewhere.
because it plays on and encourages the social/political problem surrounding the sex and women that we see in gaming in contemporary society? i don't see how the game is designed to do so. i find the game creatively designed with artistic merits and beauty - and the very exaggerated body portions become a style.
it's not normal, it's not realistic, and it's not what we see most of the time. easy victim.
now, i'm only judging the game on these select character designs (mostly the 6 playable characters) and i am completly ignorant on how these characters behave sexually within the game.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Completely agree with this. There are so many films that have tons of sex and nudity in it that aren't "necessary". Is Monster's Ball really better off having an explicit sex scene where you can literally see Billy Bob Thorton's testicles touching Halle Barry's ass? Clearly the director put it in there just go build controversy and get pervs to watch the movie.They just want to slip in a mini porno movie in to get cheap ticket sales. I'm disappointed more reviewers did not make at least 50% of the review about this scene and how sexist it was.
AcceptableGhost
Member
I think the ratio of people talking generally about the game to the "controversy" of the art is like 1 to 99 at this point.
Jacksonlee
Member
Note her torso and arm proportions, where her breast is relative to where her rib cage should be, the suggestive look on her face, and the general aesthetics that conform to what was "attractive" during its time.
Dragon's Crown is hardly the first piece of art to exaggerate a human form for the sake of expression.
art is merely an exaggeration of the human life.
i think the problem is that people view this as a game that is meant for men.
Which is why I also gave my opinion about her clothes.
desertdroog
Member
This article details how much thought went into the art of the game. I was on the fence until I read this article, now I feel I owe it to myself to support a company that put so much thought into the style and setting in what I originally thought was just a beat-em-up. What a treat!
Vire
Member
If you can't tell the difference between this:
Dragon Crown
and this:
"Venus Asleep" - Giorgione
I don't know what to tell you.
One treats the female with an ounce of respect and the other doesn't
Anyway, if that appeals to you - that's fine. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, the Polygon reviewer disagreed with the design choices, that's fine too.
I need to step out now for dinner, so if I don't respond it's not because I hate you.
Ultimadrago
Member
I'm only able to skim at the moment, but that article looks great. I'll be sure to read it more later today.
Jacksonlee
Member
^^^
this is how i felt!
i remember this one user of Gaf stated that the art style was childish, improper, and ignorant of the human anatomy. far from it.
How many people would similarly criticize Frank Frazetta or Robert Crumb for their own inspired creations, for the sake of political correctness?
The game's art and direction is headed by one guy-- George Kamitani. Dragon's Crown's art style is is his singular vision, informed by art history, his own taste, and tropes of the genre. I have a hard time seeing people criticize a man's work with surface level critiques. Maybe it's because it's for a video game and not art on a wall? But with Kamitani, I get a strong sense that he's creating these for himself more than appealing to 13 year old boys.
I very much doubt he gives a shit about making characters appeal to other people, especially if you follow his work. It doesn't come off as lazy or pandering for a large audience in the slightest. But that's probably from my biased point of view as an illustrator. I don't want to come off as "I can see what other people don't", but my colleagues feel very much the same way, and many other people clearly see it too.
There's a difference between a man expressing a part of himself in a piece of work, and a team of people trying to come up with a appealing design for a specific demographic. Kamitani is an artist, and I have no problem treating the aesthetics with as much respect as I would a man's art.
The game's art and direction is headed by one guy-- George Kamitani. Dragon's Crown's art style is is his singular vision, informed by art history, his own taste, and tropes of the genre. I have a hard time seeing people criticize a man's work with surface level critiques. Maybe it's because it's for a video game and not art on a wall? But with Kamitani, I get a strong sense that he's creating these for himself more than appealing to 13 year old boys.
I very much doubt he gives a shit about making characters appeal to other people, especially if you follow his work. It doesn't come off as lazy or pandering for a large audience in the slightest. But that's probably from my biased point of view as an illustrator. I don't want to come off as "I can see what other people don't", but my colleagues feel very much the same way, and many other people clearly see it too.
There's a difference between a man expressing a part of himself in a piece of work, and a team of people trying to come up with a appealing design for a specific demographic. Kamitani is an artist, and I have no problem treating the aesthetics with as much respect as I would a man's art.
In a sense, she is correct. Back in the day when I was a teen, I have many fond memories of staying up all night and day in the early 90's playing games like Golden Axe with my friends and (now deceased) brother on the Sega Genesis. Would take nothing in trade for those times. This game reminds me of a modern day Golden Axe, but with a whole lot more going on and that excites me.
But more to the point. Games and fantasy like that was always a dream to me at that age, and I still love such themes to this day. I guess it's part of the kid in me and what I grew up on. Dragons, demons, monsters, treasure, vampires, wizards, barbarians, knights and scantily-clad hot female warriors? Hell yes, sign me up... every time. Not ashamed of it, either.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Large breasts are disrespectful?
Knux-Future
Banned
To be fair, it was the only good part of that movie...
>_>
But yeah the fact that she got an Oscar for literally getting fucked is hilarious.
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