Dragon's Crown Reviews

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Deified Data said:
Are you guys buying this for PS3 or Vita?
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I'm pretty confident that a majority of the people bitching in here aren't even buying the game. Boggles my mind.


With that said I'm going PS3. Debated on Vita for a while but couldn't resist 50" goodness.

Vire said:
There is no such thing as an objectively good game.

Even someone could list a game as Mario 64 as a bad game. Why? Because it's an opinion.

Reviews are opinion pieces. Not sure what's so hard to grasp about this.
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You said you were done.

Are you done?

Why are you even here?
 
Haha, this is one of the few games where the female characters look just as terrible as the male characters, but if the game plays as well as some of the reviews are saying. I'm going to download this despite my distaste for the art style.
 
Spirit of Jazz said:
Then all reviews should be rendered pointless to you. All impressions on what makes something bad or good or the extent to how good or bad things make the game is utterly subjective.
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This is what years of terrible gradation-lacking game journalism taught to people, that there can be no objectivity in assessing a video game. That's the real woe here.
 
Polygon is perfectly free to review the game however they feel but it's annoying because i know they won't deduct points from grand theft auto for its sexism.
 
phanboy4 said:
Yes. See Catherine.

There's a difference between that and "OH LET'S SLAP SOME TITS ON THIS ONE BECAUSE WE'RE ALL GUYS HERE AND WE LIKE THAT."
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Now is that last sentence commenting on what you think Dragon's Crown is doing? Why couldn't the creators of Dragon's Crown not want to make the Sorceress seductive by design? There are women of all shapes and sizes in Dragon's Crown. It's not like they had some mandate that all breasts must be the size of bowling balls.
 
Dresden said:
Trying to shame one viewpoint by associating with it the baggage of the industry as a whole is pretty low brow.
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It's all related though isn't it?

Of all the insanity and nonsensical things I've seen in my history with gaming, Oversized boobs shows up pretty damn low on the list.

The irony that people want to take up arms against this rather than other things which are blatantly more accepted for whatever reason is pretty baffling to me.

Nobody said anything about Hot Coffee. People thought it was cool/dumb fun. No Russian made little waves in mainstream media, Gamers had no problem with it ("Its for story reasons!")

Every 3 games I play is full of headshots, excessive swearing (like to ohdee amounts), pandering sexuality, gratuitous violence...

But no.. That giant pair of boobs will end us all. Majority love porn but those animated boobs have taken shit to a new level...

In the end, Its just a game with an art style. We have way bigger problems here in this industry.
 
Abriael said:
Of course it can. And Dragon's Crown is.

There's a large difference between liking something and something being good. How good? There's room for variation there, but saying that Dragon's Crown is not a good game is disingenuous.

The first is a relative term, the second is absolute, and there are plenty absolute quality-related parameters in games. Not being able to recognize them and assign them the right weight is the mark of a someone that simply should not be a critic.
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i do think that many people think that anyone can review.
i personally cant, as i can't as of yet go beyond my personal views, but it's clearly a skill a want to develop
 
Ugh, open topic and the thread is full of this polygon drama over a tired topic.

For people actually interested in the game, have any reviewers compared the PS3/Vita versions? Are there any noticeable performance issues or other discrepancies between them?
 
I can't remember the last time I read a review and became increasingly frustrated with the writer as it went on. Giving a low score for legitimate reasons I can deal with, but that was a truly horrible review from Polygon. She would probably score the last of us 10/10 because it "empowers women".
 
GuardianE said:
Like I said, this is a separate issue I have with reviews in general. It's not necessarily applicable to the Polygon review here. I do not think that a review is soapbox or a reviewer's personal storefront. There should be a reason why your review is in a publication and not on a random unknown blog of the internet.
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Well, we can separate this from the context of the Polygon review, but I'm still going to disagree with you for the same reasons (regarding the "soapbox" portion, at least).

If you can make the case for why reviews aren't opinions, I'm all ears.
 
Deified Data said:
Are you guys buying this for PS3 or Vita?
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tumblr_mkws36UgVu1ry10fwo1_400.gif
 
PsychoRaven said:
And that's a question you can ask. In fact that would be a good question but in an opinion piece on sexism in games. Not in the actual review of the game. Now all this said do I think it's sexist personally no but I don't look at this game in a sexual manor. It's very cartoony and exaggerated. To me it would be like looking at Smurfette and going oh damn she's hot. I just don't. It's the same in this. So I don't look at any of these characters in a sexual manor. But if someone does then ok I can understand why they might. Anyway

I'll just shut up now. It's hard to explain my viewpoint on this. Basically just tell me if the game functions right and has issues on a design level. That's what I want in a review. Maybe some of my posts came off harsh and if so then I'm sorry I offended anyone including the author of the review. To me sexism isn't about looks and poses. I have issues with women being paid less, being treated like shit because their a woman. Not because they may be good looking or striking a sexy pose. Either way it's time to step back a bit I think.
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That's kind of been my stance for awhile. Like, if there were a review for this game from someone who said, "I'm a Christian, and I'm docking points from this because it uses magic and I don't like magic." the reaction here would be TOTALLY different. I'm not touching the art in the game and her opinion of it with a ten foot pole, but the correlation is the same in the scenario I've posted. Someone didn't agree with it on a moral level, therefore docked points.
 
I'm not sure if people understand where the inspiration for the art in this game comes from. A quick google image search for Frank Frazetta will put you on the right track to understanding why everything looks the way it does. You don't have to like it, nobody is even saying you should. If you're going to argue that it's harmful just be aware that you're opening up a can of worms that can be used to rally for censorship on a variety of fronts and topics you did not anticipate.

As a side note, I think that Polygon review was pretty good, and they're free to score the game however they like. It just goes to show how meaningless and counterproductive assigning review scores to games is, and also how hypocritical mainstream sites are when they moan about all the confirmation bias ridden animals who are shitting up the comments, knowing full well that they're providing the fuse for the powder keg.

Sites: take the review scores away and let the text speak for itself.

Readers: have a little more respect for yourself. Be willing to admit that something you like might have elements that rub some people the wrong way, and leave it at that.
 
TheChillyAcademic said:
Yeah I can totally see that. Whilst I suppose there are people who are attracted to homoerotic depictions of burly, old, bears, it seems more likely it is just an exaggerated cliche. Given the obvious intelligence of the sorceress, juxtaposing her intellect with her choice of bra size (or lack thereof) does seem somewhat jarring.
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I suppose there are. Just like there are some people like me who can't really manage to look at some of that really exaggerated art in a sexual way, and as a result don't see much of an issue issue.
TheChillyAcademic said:
Sexualization, at either end of the spectrum, male or female, I suppose truly is a matter of opinion.
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My sarcasm meter is broken.
 
I think I've posted this on previous threads on this game before, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to do it again in the review thread (this discussion doesn't seem to be taking place in the OT).

I don't think people who are put off by the game's character designs are wrong at all, and I think it's perfect fine if that affects a review -- the art direction is a part of a game's appeal after all. That said, I'm mainly pre-ordering this game because of how much I've enjoyed Vanillaware's previous titles, as well as the original Dungeons & Dragons arcade games that Dragon's Crown spiritually succeeds. I can understand complaints coming from someone not familiar with Vanillaware, but I trust them.

This is what sticks out the most to me though: Dragon's Crown seems to have gotten by far the most attention of any Vanillaware product.

Maybe it's because games like Odin Sphere came out before internet communication was quite as pervasive as it is today. I'll admit Odin Sphere doesn't have anything resembling the Amazon or Sorceress. Muramasa didn't get much more attention either though. Maybe Dragon's Crown actually is a better game than those two.

I just hope that people who see this game aren't put off Vanillaware forever, thinking the company routinely sexualizes women in its games. These are the kind of people starving for strong, positive depictions of women in media, and Literally every game George Kamitani has ever made features some.
 
Vire said:
There is no such thing as an objectively good game.

Even someone could list a game as Mario 64 as a bad game. Why? Because it's an opinion. Creative works are not objectively good or bad, they are subjectively good or bad.

Reviews are opinion pieces. Not sure what's so hard to grasp about this.
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Just to clarify, though I disagree with that poster, I would also disagree that a review should equate to only the subjective enjoyment of the writer. You get into problems with both extremes. Note: In general, not specifically about Dragon's Crown.
 
Wait so let me get this straight: if a reviewer likes a game's art style, they're allowed to list it as a positive and speak as much. If they DON'T like the art style, they shouldn't mention it because it doesn't impact the game and that's all anyone cares about?

That's essentially what I've been reading in this thread.
 
GoddyofAus said:
Riposte hits the nail on the head. Feminism in games (or in general really) is such a loaded debate now, it's frightening. Don't you dare have a penis and tell women they're overreacting (which isn't even my personal belief but according to the emotional pri-madonnas on GAF, it is so lets just roll with it) because you will get your head torn off. Feminism or female issues is a female only zone, gentlemen, let's just back off.

Anyone see the irony in how sexist THAT position is?
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perhaps the word you are looking for is *snicker* misandry?
 
Nnamz said:
Whoosh. The point was that people with that kind of anatomy actually exist. Why shouldn't they be replicated in art form?

You're basically saying that Hendricks' body IS offensive, but it's okay since it's not her fault.
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You're comparing a state of being to a conscious act of artistic expression. I really hope you can tell the difference.

devonraynor said:
So tired about this "women unfriendly" games.
Give the artist his freedom of expression.
When a painter does it, nobody gives a shit.
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Yes! Who ever heard of art critics? That's certainly not a thing
 
POLYGON REVIEW SUMMARY:
It has beautiful visuals, stunning soundtrack and a great gameplay value, not to mention the extras and the atmosphere.
But I didn't like the way women were depicted.
TEENAGE GAME
6/5
 
I prefer to focus on all the good reviews it's getting. July is perhaps the worst month of the year for new games. There's only so many times I can replay Last of Us. Can't wait until Aug 6th.
 
perorist said:
Ugh, open topic and the thread is full of this polygon drama over a tired topic.

For people actually interested in the game, have any reviewers compared the PS3/Vita versions? Are there any noticeable performance issues or other discrepancies between them?
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Vita has some framerate issues and easy touch controls. PS3 has better framerate but the right stick isn't as fast/effective as touch.
 
perorist said:
Ugh, open topic and the thread is full of this polygon drama over a tired topic.

For people actually interested in the game, have any reviewers compared the PS3/Vita versions? Are there any noticeable performance issues or other discrepancies between them?
Click to expand...

Vita version for the touch function or the PS3 version for being able to see better when things get hectic. Take your pick.
 
IHaveCandy said:
Now is that last sentence commenting on what you think Dragon's Crown is doing? Why couldn't the creators of Dragon's Crown not want to make the Sorceress seductive by design? There are women of all shapes and sizes in Dragon's Crown. It's not like they had some mandate that all breasts must be the size of bowling balls.
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this is important
 
When someone draws sexy images of their own volition, whether it be some fan art on Deviantart or an original source in a private art journal, are they pandering to the lowest common denominator?
 
GuardianE said:
I don't agree. Objectivity, even limited objectivity, is something that exists. This is how judges and juries exist.
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This is how judges and juries are never wrong, good job proving your point though it's a terrible point of comparison given basing a verdict on evidence perceived as objective is an utterly different process to subjectively critiquing and giving their opinion a product.

Please point out to me a review you don't consider to be pointless, I'd love to be enlightened by the "limited objectivity" displayed in a persons opinion piece.
 
IHaveCandy said:
Now is that last sentence commenting on what you think Dragon's Crown is doing? Why couldn't the creators of Dragon's Crown not want to make the Sorceress seductive by design? There are women of all shapes and sizes in Dragon's Crown. It's not like they had some mandate that all breasts must be the size of bowling balls.
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No, there wasn't. They did that because they're male, and they weren't thinking about anybody else but males with similar tastes.



Which is fine. But then there should be no surprise or outrage when people from outside the clubhouse look at it and go, "uh, yeah, no thanks."
 
Vire said:
It's not creativity, it's pandering to the lowest common denominator.
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It's not creative when you design a sexy character? lol And what's the deal with TLoU and it's gruesome violence. It's like pandering to the lowest common denominator.
 
FINALBOSS said:
I'm pretty confident that a majority of the people bitching in here aren't even buying the game. Boggles my mind.


With that said I'm going PS3. Debated on Vita for a while but couldn't resist 50" goodness.



You said you were done.

Are you done?

Why are you even here?
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Why am I here? I felt the need to defend the utterly ridiculous criticism of the Polygon review when they have every right expressing their disagreement with the games attributes.
Pimpbaa said:
It's not creative when you design a sexy character? lol And what's the deal with TLoU and it's gruesome violence. It's like pandering to the lowest common denominator.
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Insulting a game I like, just to get a rise out of me isn't going to work. You are entitled to your opinion.

Objectification of women does not equate violence.
 
Shosai said:
Right here, you're describing a quality of the game that annoys you.
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No. I described it's style. Quality and style are entirely different factors.

Your tastes in games are always going to be relevant, always. It's impossible for any reviewer to approach a game with zero preconceptions unless you have them live in a closet. In any case, the Polygon review did not label the game as "objectively bad", they described the parts that they enjoyed and the parts that they did not, and were clear about why they felt that way.
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They marked it with an objectively low score, which undervalues its objectives qualities by a lot, misleading readers in believing that it's worse than it actually is.

That review can easily be summarized with "The game is very good, but I'll tell you it isn't, because tits".

There's a difference between approaching a game with zero preconceptions and being able to put those preconceptions aside as much as possible in order to appreciate a game's objective qualities.

[QUITE]So if you had a miserable time playing a Mario game, I'd like to know about it and why. After all, I find myself more and more on the fence about buying Mario games and it might be helpful to read a review from someone who shares my reservations. If anyone wanted a sterile, objective overview of the game's content then they can just watch youtube videos without the commentary.[/QUOTE]

personal-taste reservations can be voiced without affecting the score and with a very clear notion that such reservation come indeed from personal taste, when those reservations are entirely personal and have nothing to do with the game's quality.

Polygon's reviewer turned the review into a political speech, and that's simply really bad.
 
RedSwirl said:
I think I've posted this on previous threads on this game before, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to do it again in the review thread (this discussion doesn't seem to be taking place in the OT).

I don't think people who are put off by the game's character designs are wrong at all, and I think it's perfect fine if that affects a review -- the art direction is a part of a game's appeal after all. That said, I'm mainly pre-ordering this game because of how much I've enjoyed Vanillaware's previous titles, as well as the original Dungeons & Dragons arcade games that Dragon's Crown spiritually succeeds. I can understand complaints coming from someone not familiar with Vanillaware, but I trust them.

This is what sticks out the most to me though: Dragon's Crown seems to have gotten by far the most attention of any Vanillaware product.

Maybe it's because games like Odin Sphere came out before internet communication was quite as pervasive as it is today. I'll admit Odin Sphere doesn't have anything resembling the Amazon or Sorceress. Muramasa didn't get much more attention either though. Maybe Dragon's Crown actually is a better game than those two.

I just hope that people who see this game aren't put off Vanillaware forever, thinking the company routinely sexualizes women in its games. These are the kind of people starving for strong, positive depictions of women in media, and Literally every game George Kamitani has ever made features some.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is I think the women in Odin Sphere were much more attractively designed.
 
DigitalOp said:
It's all related though isn't it?

Of all the insanity and nonsensical things I've seen in my history with gaming, Oversized boobs shows up pretty damn low on the list.

The irony that people want to take up arms against this rather than other things which are blatantly more accepted for whatever reason is pretty baffling to me.

Nobody said anything about Hot Coffee. People thought it was cool/dumb fun. No Russian made little waves in mainstream media, Gamers had no problem with it ("Its for story reasons!")

Every 3 games I play is full of headshots, excessive swearing (like to ohdee amounts), pandering sexuality, gratuitous violence...

But no.. That giant pair of boobs will end us all. Majority love porn but those animated boobs have taken shit to a new level...

In the end, Its just a game with an art style. We have way bigger problems here in this industry.
Click to expand...

hear hear. they're okay with this in the general game themes and they are not with Dragon's crown? i am curious to understand how they justify how that is okay.
 
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