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[Fbh]

How how many active Ps4 users are there compared to how many active Ps3 users there were at this point last gen?
And, more importantly, how much is the average Ps4 user spending on software, microtransactions and subscriptions vs what the average Ps3 users was spending in 2018?

The console market is changing, it's becoming less about mass migration into the latest hardware iteration and more about keeping a large active userbase across multiple devices. It's turning more into something like phones, except without yearly hardware refreshers. The most used Iphone isn't the latest model, as of mid 2024 it was still the 5 years old Iphone 11.
You'll always have your more hardcore dedicated audience that wants the "latest and greatest", but as tech matures, prices increase and diminishing returns start to set in, the more casual audience will slow down their adoption rate.

You stopped playing videogames because Uncharted is on Steam?

It's the usual flawed logic that mistakes exclusives and not affordability and ease of use as the main appeal of the Ps5.
They asume the average casual gamer is like "Wait Death Stranding 2 will release on PC? Despite the fact I mostly want to play COD, Madden and GTA, I'll now go buy a $1200 pre built PC that's way more annoying to use on my TV instead of getting myself a $500 ps5".

 

[Nintendo's Witch]

They'll be fine

 

[Astray]

The 2m on playstation isn't lost though is it?

Assuming the active user count dring mentioned is true then nothing has actually been lost, but the ps5 userbase just lagging behind compared to previous gen.

Regression in the userbase may seem small today, but it may have a lot of effects in the future.

Sony has not done a very good job at keeping PS5 affordable and reducing its cost. Now devs have to choose between staying low-tech to be able to ship on PS4 and Switch 2 (which kills competitiveness) or going all-in on PS5 and potentially killing the market for their games.

 

[rodrigolfp]

As some of the posters above have correctly identified, it's fucked up beyond words that Sony chooses to die a slow suicide by porting their games to the personal computer, thereby devaluing the PlayStion brand, wiping out that which makes the PlayStation special, and giving absolutely no reason to buy a PlayStation console. Truly fucking abhorrent, and it's a big reason why I stopped playing video games.

Becoming a third party publisher is nothing but a big fucking slap in the face. Nintendo is the only one left with common sense.

You stopped playing games because Sony gave the option for their games to have "unlimited" resolutions, frame rates, graphics, controls, etc etc???

 

[mckmas8808]

With Xbox essentially dead, Sony shouldve cleaned up. the fact that they failed to make zero inroads into the xbox marketshare from last gen is pretty telling. it's clearly why they are whoring out their franchises to PC, Switch and now Xbox. They cannot sell their consoles to the xbox or PC or Nintendo fanbases.

Xbox is a big failure that shouldve let to phil's firing years ago. He's single handedly killed an entire brand. And yet, Sony is literally following his lead by releasing expensive consoles, 1 exclusive a year, porting everything under the sun to PC, and now their direct competitors. You would think they would look at this and say oh we shouldnt follow a loser who literally ran his business to the ground, but nope. The only thing they've differed on is releasing games day one on PS+ Premium, but a year is almost as bad as their own leaks showed them upset over HFW's sales falling off a cliff after they put it on premium after just a year.

I said this before, and i will say it again. Exclusives matter. Price drops matter. Yes, they wont net you 2x more sales. You cannot convince all the xbox owners to jump ship, let alone steam diehards who wont even buy from the Epic store they are so brainwashed, but you dont need a 150 million steam owners, you need maybe 5-10%. that alone will net you 4-8 million in sales. Same goes for Xbox. Just an extra 5-10 million sales from Xbox owners along with PC sales would have them outpace the PS4 by 20-25% by the end of the gen. thats massive growth.

Instead their sales are flatter than a pancake ass.

I did see that their market cap is up to $180 billion. Highest its ever been. Investors are fucking retarded and Sony's playing the investor game now instead of actually making games and making games available for people who cant afford $550 consoles. Not the same company that had the ps1 and ps2 selling for $99 by year 5. Good for shareholders, great for fanboys, bad for gamers.

Have you considered the fact that PS has raised the price of their console world-wide has more to do with that, then anything else?

 

[Ozriel]

From someone who owned a Switch ? Well a Steam Deck I'd say for eg.

Nobody is jumping from a living room console to exclusively a Steamdeck

There's 50 million active PS4 owners out there. What do you think they'll be doing after GTA6 launches?

For many of those, it's a financial issue and they won't be magically able to afford $499 consoles. Spiderman 2, Hogwarts, Madden college football and a few others already did a whole lot to move those whose barrier wasn't of the financial kind.

We'll see a significant console uptick, but I'm not certain it'll be as massive as you think.

 

[AngelMuffin]

I don't think price is the main problem. People have bought the $500+ PS5 over the $300 Series S. And the premium Switch OLED over the Switch Lite. People buy $1000+ phones and $2000 gaming PCs. In fact, these whales are more likely to buy many games and not stick with the same few, generating more money for the platform holder.

People don't buy $1K phones outright, they lease them for $15-$25 a month & the number of people shelling out $2K for a PC are in the extreme minority.

 

[poppabk]

This is pretty much entirely due to Xbox crashing and burning this generation. PS5 is about on par with PS4 (sometimes we hear sightly ahead, sometimes slightly behind), and Switch 2 is gonna do fine (although not as good as the OG).

But why isn't the Xbox drop countered by an increase in PS5 sales? I can't imagine many people are so loyal to Xbox that they would stop playing on console but not loyal enough to actually buy an Xbox.
If you said at the beginning of the gen that Xbox was going to crash and burn you would have predicted that the PS5 was gonna do gangbusters - not just on par with the PS4.
Of course if you had been told the pricing of consoles right now at the beginning of the gen you would have probably predicted both would crash and burn.

 

[reinking]

Holy selective data Batman. Console gaming is projected to increase through 2028. If things change, then we can panic. Hasn't PC gaming died five or six times over the last 25 years?

 

[ByWatterson]

Are American political parties in trouble? Combined Republican/Democrat approval has plummeted since Trump's reelection.

 

[MisterXDTV]

Switch 1 outsold two Xbox Series consoles combined 2:1 worldwide in July

PS5 6:1

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

there is only one console in trouble.

 

[mckmas8808]

For many of those, it's a financial issue and they won't be magically able to afford $499 consoles. Spiderman 2, Hogwarts, Madden college football and a few others already did a whole lot to move those whose barrier wasn't of the financial kind.

We'll see a significant console uptick, but I'm not certain it'll be as massive as you think.

I somewhat agree. The price 100% needs to do down. So far it's only went up . But rest assured that when GTA6 drops millions upon millions will jump from PS4 to PS5.

 

[Hudo]

Aren't Sony and Nintendo reporting profit after profit each year? Seems to me shit is going swell for them.

 

[Baemono]

Nobody is jumping from a living room console to exclusively a Steamdeck

You're right

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

I don't have my finger on the pulse of the market, just my own thoughts and gaming habits.

I never willingly buy games for walled gardens unless they're an exlusive release that I find is a must-play. And apart from Front Mission 3 for my Switch¹ I haven't fired up a console since May. (The wife do play some Slay the Spire and Binding of Isaac on my PS5 from time to time.) My desktop and handhelds doing the heavy lifting these days.

Seeing as PS and Xbox both are releasing most of their games for PC (not that they release many 1st party games that interest me these days) I'm going to be investing a nice slump of cash in a living room PC when the next gen comes around.

It'll be the end of the era of non-stop console purchases, but no use having more of these dust collectors around anymore. Will be keeping a Switch² as a side-hoe for some upcoming exclusives though.

2027 seems to be the year of new tech so I'm looking foreward to geeking out over what to get. If I'm lucky Valve will have rolled out more hardware support for SteamOS by then. Could be that MS reverse-UNO my expectations and actually follows up and keep improving and debloating their big-screen experience, but I'm not holding my breath.

Planning to build a new PC when the PS6 comes out.

 

[Zacfoldor]

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, damned lies, and statistics.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

How how many active Ps4 users are there compared to how many active Ps3 users there were at this point last gen?
And, more importantly, how much is the average Ps4 user spending on software, microtransactions and subscriptions vs what the average Ps3 users was spending in 2018?

The console market is changing, it's becoming less about mass migration into the latest hardware iteration and more about keeping a large active userbase across multiple devices. It's turning more into something like phones, except without yearly hardware refreshers. The most used Iphone isn't the latest model, as of mid 2024 it was still the 5 years old Iphone 11.
You'll always have your more hardcore dedicated audience that wants the "latest and greatest", but as tech matures, prices increase and diminishing returns start to set in, the more casual audience will slow down their adoption rate.




It's the usual flawed logic that mistakes exclusives and not affordability and ease of use as the main appeal of the Ps5.
They asume the average casual gamer is like "Wait Death Stranding 2 will release on PC? Despite the fact I mostly want to play COD, Madden and GTA, I'll now go buy a $1200 pre built PC that's way more annoying to use on my TV instead of getting myself a $500 ps5".

>I need exclusives to justify my purchase of a PS5
>why not just get a PC then
>i like laying on my couch with a controller
>then just play the games on your PS5 and PC players will play on their PC
>games should be excluisve


They don't actually care about any mumbo jumbo about "Need exclusives to push the industry forward" or whatever BS, they just wanna feel special. All it is.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

As some of the posters above have correctly identified, it's fucked up beyond words that Sony chooses to die a slow suicide by porting their games to the personal computer, thereby devaluing the PlayStion brand, wiping out that which makes the PlayStation special, and giving absolutely no reason to buy a PlayStation console. Truly fucking abhorrent, and it's a big reason why I stopped playing video games.

Becoming a third party publisher is nothing but a big fucking slap in the face. Nintendo is the only one left with common sense.

Playing ghost of Tsushima on my PERSONAL COMPUTER using an Xbox 360 controller. Cry more nerd.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

You stopped playing videogames because Uncharted is on Steam?

Sony fanboys are fucking weird man. This guy literally could just stick to console if he doesnt want a PC. And play the games there. But because PC players can also play, he doesn't feel special in his plastic box purchase. Worst fanbase in gaming. Makes me ashamed to even like PS.

 

[Nvzman]

Aren't Sony and Nintendo reporting profit after profit each year? Seems to me shit is going swell for them.

Nintendo is doing just fine, because they're the only ones of the three who still realize exclusives sell your console.

Imo, as a PC gamer, I do really like getting PlayStation games on PC, but I really do feel it ultimately makes the point of owning a PlayStation nonexistent.
Xbox, aside from Forza and Indiana Jones, has had legit fuck all worth playing since Kinect. The Kinect pushing developers away from MS, alongside terrible management completely ruined them to this day.

I own a Switch 2 and I have been genuinely enjoying it (contrary to the rampant retarded bitching about it you hear online), but I'll probably never buy another PlayStation (my PS5 has been collecting dust except to play Astro Bot and GT7), and Xbox will probably be dead as a console before I can even choose not to buy another one (my Series X hasn't been touched in two years).

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

Nintendo is doing just fine, because they're the only ones of the three who still realize exclusives sell your console.

Imo, as a PC gamer, I do really like getting PlayStation games on PC, but I really do feel it ultimately makes the point of owning a PlayStation nonexistent.
Xbox, aside from Forza and Indiana Jones, has had legit fuck all worth playing since Kinect. The Kinect pushing developers away from MS, alongside terrible management completely ruined them to this day.

When sony can spend 2 millon dollars on a 1st party game and sell 30 million copies, holla at ya boy. There's a reason Nintendo got out of the graphics race after 6th gen.

 

[Dacvak]

People are sticking with old consoles for longer.

Same with GPUs

New hardware is no longer essential

This is the biggest reason, imo. We just haven't had the same scale of tech improvements from 2015 to 2025 as we did from 2005 to 2015. The tech I got in 2020 is still comparable to new tech today.

Then, add in the fact that software is immensely more scalable and portable these days than it was 10 years ago.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

This is the biggest reason, imo. We just haven't had the same scale of tech improvements from 2015 to 2025 as we did from 2005 to 2015. The tech I got in 2020 is still comparable to new tech today.

Then, add in the fact that software is immensely more scalable and portable these days than it was 10 years ago.

And the new shit runs the software like ass. 5090s and 9800x3d's barely cracking 60fps native on UE5 games. Hilarious. Why move on from my 3080?

 

[Dacvak]

And the new shit runs the software like ass. 5090s and 9800x3d's barely cracking 60fps native on UE5 games. Hilarious. Why move on from my 3080?

Aside from ram, the 3080 is a goat card. Up there with the 1080.

 

[Guilty_AI]

There's 50 million active PS4 owners out there. What do you think they'll be doing after GTA6 launches?

Keep playing fortnite, minecraft or whatever else is the game they keep the ps4 for

 

[kungfuian]

This is just the size of the market when you don't lower prices on your consoles. What's interesting is the market size versus price is probably almost exactly proportional. Lower the price by 20% and increase total market size by the same amount. Or leave it where it is and it will stay 20% below prior gens were they actually lowered the price on consoles.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

Aside from ram, the 3080 is a goat card. Up there with the 1080.

Still got my old 1080ti. EVGA sc black got it off EVGA in 2020, RMA'ed my old one and they sent me a fresh one. Used it for about 6 months. So basically brand new. Gonna keep it for an emulation PC/old game rig probably. Fitting I ugpraded to it's successor.
}

 

[Nvzman]

When sony can spend 2 millon dollars on a 1st party game and sell 30 million copies, holla at ya boy. There's a reason Nintendo got out of the graphics race after 6th gen.

Is this supposed to be some diss against Nintendo being efficient with their development?

Part of the problem with modern game development, including Sony, is that their games take too damn long to develop and have stupidly inflated budgets partially because of incredibly bloated development teams. PS2-PS3 era Sony was amazing, just as good if not better than Nintendo at pumping out constant exclusives from some of the best talent across the industry. That era of Sony is long dead now.

I'll be honest, at this point anyone debating about graphics is clueless about game design. Games should look as good as they need to, I'd rather play a simplistic looking game that looks and runs solid that is very fun and replayable versus a generic, same-y looking game that is technically impressive but plays extremely derivatively and dull, like 95% of AAA shit coming out now.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

Is this supposed to be some diss against Nintendo being efficient with their development?

Part of the problem with modern game development, including Sony, is that their games take too damn long to develop and have stupidly inflated budgets partially because of incredibly bloated development teams. PS2-PS3 era Sony was amazing, just as good if not better than Nintendo at pumping out constant exclusives from some of the best talent across the industry. That era of Sony is long dead now.

I'll be honest, at this point anyone debating about graphics is clueless about game design. Games should look as good as they need to, I'd rather play a simplistic looking game that looks and runs solid versus a generic, same-y looking game that looks visually impressive, like 95% of AAA shit coming out now.

What? Im agreeing with you. Literally this part thats bolded is my thoughts. They spend too much damn money on cinematic blockbusters. As that's become their brand since the PS3.

 

[Nvzman]

What? Im agreeing with you. Literally this part thats bolded is my thoughts. They spend too much damn money on cinematic blockbusters. As that's become their brand since the PS3.

Ah okay, my bad, the way your post was worded confused me, yea we're on the same page.

 

[Xbox 360 slim]

Ah okay, my bad, the way your post was worded confused me, yea we're on the same page.

Nintendo was smart to bail out in 6th gen. Oh well, more games on my PC is fine by me. And I really enjoy some sony games. Hopefully they keep porting.

 

[Melfice7]

microsoft commiting seppuku with xbox really did a number on some of these "journalists"

 

[MisterXDTV]

With Xbox essentially dead, Sony shouldve cleaned up.

Very hard to do when desperate Xbox users are certified Sony haters

MS is pushing them towards PC gaming and they follow the orders of their lord and saviour Phil Spencer

The same guy who have been scamming them for 10 years

 

[tmlDan]

im not sure so sure about this, gta 6 is going to sell, but imo, most people who play gta games may a;lready have a console.

with little evidence to counter argue your anecdotal remark, a ton of people are still on PS4

 

[Sanepar]

5 years after launch, really weak hw and more expensive than in 2020. Ps and Xbox deserves that.

 

[mckmas8808]

Keep playing fortnite, minecraft or whatever else is the game they keep the ps4 for

And so when their friends are playing GTA6.........they won't get FOMO?

 

[Guilty_AI]

And so when their friends are playing GTA6.........they won't get FOMO?

As popular as GTA is, it's not as if the entire fucking world is dying to play it. And even then, they can just go play at their friends houses the normie way.

Whoever is interested in buying GTA6 on release and can afford a XSX/PS5, already bought one or will get one during the usual times like christmas.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

It's weird to make a data-based statement like this and ignore the market leader.

 

[kazuyamishima]

Most Xbox users will go to PC since their library can be played there, they're not moving to PS5.

I think Dring should wait until the gen is over to talk about the PS5 but he can't help himself.

Also, people underestimating the impact of GTAVI will eat a lot of crow when the game launches.

 

[rkofan87]

dring?????????????????????????????????????????

 

[kasrkinsquad]

It's weird to make a data-based statement like this and ignore the market leader.

Nintendo has sold over 150 mil Switch 1s and that number is the ceiling of a console. The Switch 2 has no place to go but down.

Still got my old 1080ti. EVGA sc black got it off EVGA in 2020, RMA'ed my old one and they sent me a fresh one. Used it for about 6 months. So basically brand new. Gonna keep it for an emulation PC/old game rig probably. Fitting I ugpraded to it's successor.
}

My 7900XTX is the last card I'm buying at launch. Gonna ride with it until it dies.

 

[Gamer79]

It is a software issue. Too few good releases

 

[SkylineRKR]

Consoles are sold at a much higher price, which is even raised over the years. We're looking at almost 5 years in and the consoles are still launch price or up.

Xbox doing badly also affects total console sales. Switch was being milked until the very end, with a successor just released 8 years after the original.

 

[Dr. Wilkinson]

Nintendo has sold over 150 mil Switch 1s and that number is the ceiling of a console. The Switch 2 has no place to go but down.

That's purely an assumption. The fact is we have no way of knowing how well nor how long the S2 generation will last. And also that wasn't my point.

 

[Majima Everywhere System]

It's a reaction to UE5 performance and modern illumination, fundamentally. People don't want to invest and end up with visually unstable games, where are a current tier of games and older games are pristine and smooth. People are actively disincentivized to upgrade.

 

[hououinkyouma00]

Dring and the rest of these idiots just want clicks.

People are always talking about how consoles are dying and guess what? PlayStation 5 is still selling great and not that far behind PlayStation 4 (also landed during a pandemic and has been slammed by tariffs in its biggest market which PS4 didn't have either), Switch was/possibly is on track to be the best selling console of all time, and the Switch 2 is the fastest selling console of all time.

It's all about clicks and pushing narratives.

I wonder which console/manufacturer is massively behind gen on gen…

Also this. If consoles are 20M behind it's because Microsoft has given up.

Xbox is dying not consoles.

 

[UltimaKilo]

But what about the engagement numbers!?

Surely more are just streaming games straight to their TV or iPad right!? RIGHT!?

Are we taking into account all the gamepass users and Xbox cloud users!?!?!?

Won't somebody think of the GeForce now players :'(

This is talking about consoles sales. You are right in a sense. Video gaming is not "doomed" just because the younger generation care less about physical consoles. There are games on phones, PC, tablets, cloud, AppleTV, etc. in addition to consoles.

I would venture to guess there is more engagement with games now than ever.

 

[EN250]

… And the Switch will be 140M above the WiiU.

And while people like to pretend the Switch is not a console I think you'd be hard pressed to find any causal who doesn't put it in the same category as, and compare a purchase of it to, PlayStation or Xbox.

This feels like talking about the Xbox/GC/Ps2 generation and asking if consoles are dying while only looking at GC and Xbox performance.

But it also could be that like the PS2 back in the day, the S2 is the only viable gaming system going forward as it's the only one that has its business running as usual, unlike Sony and MS that are pretty much Third Party Multiplatform devs now, making their respective systems redundant and people just can buy their games on PCMR

 

[demigod]

PS5/Xbox Series/Switch 2 - Estimated 207m by the end (assuming 105m PS5, 60m Switch 2 and 42m Xbox Series). That is a significant contraction.

42m, sure thing Welfare.