Dring: Are consoles in trouble? By the end of 2026, the PS5/XBS gen will be 20 m behind PS4/XBO at the same point in their life cycles

I just think about the huge decline in quality software from ps4 to ps5 and I know I'm not the only one. Makes it very hard to even consider a ps6 if it's going to be another loooong wait for unique software.

If Sony can manage to trick us all again, good for them I guess.
Exactly, I wasn't happy about the PS5 launch price but bought one anyway since I "knew" that they always deliver on software. Boy, was I wrong. Huge decline in quality and frequency, this generation has been truly abysmal. There's just no way I'm buying a PS6 since they're trying their hardest to give me reasons not to.

I've always been a Playstation fan but I don't even know what that word means anymore, it really feels like they're killing themselves.

Now I did the same thing with the Switch 2 since I "know" Nintendo always deliver on software even though the price in my country is beyond ridiculous. Hehe, well see.. 🙄
 
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Did you read past header?

I bolded the most important part from the article. Revenue doesn't always show the whole story.



Truly funny how people read only header and make extensive assumptions on it
That's not the most important part of the article lmfao... and besides, they say the majority of the people will simply upgrade to more powerful hardware tiers.

Consoles are ~20M behind where they were the same point in the generation prior... and within a couple years they're going to be asking people to upgrade again, and every time they do... some people stop and either stay on the old platform or move to other platforms.. that's simply natural and not a PC exclusive issue.
 
That's not the most important part of the article lmfao... and besides, they say the majority of the people will simply upgrade to more powerful hardware tiers.

Consoles are ~20M behind where they were the same point in the generation prior... and within a couple years they're going to be asking people to upgrade again, and every time they do... some people stop and either stay on the old platform or move to other platforms.. that's simply natural and not a PC exclusive issue.
I mean…you had 3 brands selling consoles and now you have 2. And yet PS5 is only 2M behind the PS4 and Switch 2 is breaking all records after having the first console hitting 150M consoles. How are consoles in danger? Also at least Sony has realized it at this point and they have had the biggest crossgen period ever between the ps4 and ps5. It will be even longer between the ps5 and ps6.

They care about their MAU and those have never been bigger which means they aren't just keeping their userbase. They are actually increasing it.

In a time where prices are increasing each year they couldn't be doing better. Same for Nintendo.

If the rumors for the ps6 are true they will have not only a home console but also a portable one as entry points for the new gen. I don't see how their userbase will shrink anytime soon like that specially with games like GTAVI coming next year.
 
That's not the most important part of the article lmfao... and besides, they say the majority of the people will simply upgrade to more powerful hardware tiers.
It is.
Beside some unbased claim that people will suddenly get urge to upgrade due to Win11 higher minimum settings even though there are no Win11 mandatory games. Entry level PC gamers will upgrade only after games stop working for them.

Consoles are ~20M behind where they were the same point in the generation prior...
Consoles are 110M ahead of where they were generation before. And it's only counting current gen consoles. If we add active consoles it'll be even higher number. You know, cherry picking numbers works fantastically to justify certain agenda, and everyone can do it.
Dump different things together is kinda stupid if you don't look/understand premises. Xbox failing hard. PS5 doing just fine and grabbing xbox leftovers, but transition ps4 to ps5 much slower than ps3 to ps4 for number of reasons - there is BC compatibility, pricing issue, many games still coming out for ps4 etc. Switch massively expanded it's playerbase compared to WiiU (and even 3ds combined).

There is a price issue, but it is everywhere and every layer of gaming is affected, PC and even mobile are no exclusion for this. Rising tide lift all boats. And every part of it will address it somehow as there is no other way to have sustainable model.

and within a couple years they're going to be asking people to upgrade again, and every time they do... some people stop and either stay on the old platform or move to other platforms.. that's simply natural and not a PC exclusive issue.
And what? Some people stayed on ps3 or even ps2. Some even dropped out of gaming. But on other hands a lot more people came in into gaming. It's a natural circle of things.
People pay way too much attention to how fast consoles sale this gen even though this gen is not about fast-selling consoles but rather ecosystem size. What exactly the point for Sony to rapidly migrate userbase from ps4 to ps5? There is not much difficulty in porting, there is BC so people can continue build libraries, Sony doesn't profit on hardware and they earn same 30% on both PS4 and PS5. So it's understandable that Sony focus on other areas of playerbase aquisition. And their current ecosystem size is at all-time high and only growing.
 
90's-early 00's was the height of PC gaming until piracy killed it
A lot of current era console heavy hitters came from PC of that time (BG, Fallout, Elder Scrolls etc)
There's a big difference between gaming on PC and a pre-PS3 console.
Fast forward and the difference is mostly restrictions/limitations put in place by Nintendo and Sony.
 
Did you read past header?

I bolded the most important part from the article. Revenue doesn't always show the whole story.



Truly funny how people read only header and make extensive assumptions on it

The problem here is. There's the facts then there is analysts predictions. We shall see what happens but analysts said consoles would be dead two gens ago.

The data shows pc gaming is growing massively and consoles are in decline.

If you are a suit or investor you see this data and not one would want to invest in consoles over PC. That then makes a whole load of issues and doubt around console platforms.

Sony and MS killing Xbox has been the biggest hit to console gaming possible. As it's basically wiped 20 odd million off console gamings overall number and that's what these bean counters see. Sony have failed to win over the Xbox crowd and even some of their own previous customers.

The next ten years will be interesting. This analyst things people will opt for cheaper consoles....we have no idea what the next consoles will actually cost.
 
The problem with consoles is they've kinda hit a plateau. On PC that doesn't feel like its the case. The next console gen doesn't even really sound interesting tbh.
 
The problem with consoles is they've kinda hit a plateau. On PC that doesn't feel like its the case. The next console gen doesn't even really sound interesting tbh.
I mean…a gen that hasn't been announced and won't be happening for at least 2 or 3 years doesn't sound interesting? You don't say.

About consoles hitting a plateau…latest data actually shows pc gaming in decline in japan and Europe and console gaming increasing in those places. This is the most recent data actually.

WW pc gaming is increasing because its exploding in asia in places where it wasn't big before but plenty other places thats not true.
 
The next ten years will be interesting. This analyst things people will opt for cheaper consoles....we have no idea what the next consoles will actually cost.
… but we do know one of them is designed to keep manufacturing costs in check (including cooling costs) while delivering a next-gen update where it matters (Path Tracing, upscaling, and use of AI to process / render elements in games). The other console maker… not so much…

One could say that PS5 did capitalise / gain a lot of Xbox expats, but their problem has been moving people off of PS4 which exclusive software will help with (exclusive to PS5 and or to the new generation like GTA VI). The new console generation for Sony is also aimed at getting them to upgrade too.
 
… but we do know one of them is designed to keep manufacturing costs in check (including cooling costs) while delivering a next-gen update where it matters (Path Tracing, upscaling, and use of AI to process / render elements in games). The other console maker… not so much…

One could say that PS5 did capitalise / gain a lot of Xbox expats, but their problem has been moving people off of PS4 which exclusive software will help with (exclusive to PS5 and or to the new generation like GTA VI). The new console generation for Sony is also aimed at getting them to upgrade too.

Its very complex I think. We have had a generation of console players putting their nose up at ray tracing but next gen that's going to be the selling point? To try and win people over with what pc players have been enjoying for over 5 years already.

And then raster? So we are really going to be excited for a console that has more cross gen games than even this gen and a handheld that can run ps5 games at lower settings ? I'm super interested to see Sonys next moves because I am interested to see how they market it

We have true next gen games launching now on the engine that Sony pushed as their number one marketing shout alongside epic, and it can't even hit 60 FPS at resolutions of like 720p.

I just can't see how anyone does anything but the wait and see approach with the ps6 and it's handheld. I don't think people will fall for it again.

I don't know one kid from my son or daughter's friend group that mentions consoles anymore. It's all pc
 
Its very complex I think. We have had a generation of console players putting their nose up at ray tracing but next gen that's going to be the selling point? To try and win people over with what pc players have been enjoying for over 5 years already.
Yes, because we are talking about winning PS4 and PS5 people over and the people that have not been enjoying path tracing (which is a large majority of PC gamers).

And then raster? So we are really going to be excited for a console that has more cross gen games than even this gen and a handheld that can run ps5 games at lower settings ? I'm super interested to see Sonys next moves because I am interested to see how they market it
Raster does get improvements, including techniques like FSR4 and its successors. Raster side of things will benefit from clockspeed improvements and improvements to the memory architecture and CUs, from the Zen 6 cores vs Zen 2 ones, but a lot of the gains will come thanks to features brought in for the other things I mentioned (including AI).
The actual new HW being brought in exclusively to pump out RT will be lower and the speedup on pure raster performance, outside of AI use, will be smaller than the one it will get for titles using Path Tracing.

I don't know one kid from my son or daughter's friend group that mentions consoles anymore. It's all pc
If I go by such evidence the market is doomed as they do not buy the latest HW and many pirate most if not all games they play.
 
"The market is shrinking" makes sense depending on the period you choose to analyze and whether you count handheld consoles.

One could look at sales figures for the exact years these consoles coexisted, but it's easy to see how the Wii+DS outsold the 3DS+Switch. The same goes for the PS2+PSP vs PS4+PS5 in the years they coexisted. Since Microsoft never had a handheld, it's even easier to compare; the Xbox Series sold significantly less than the Xbox 360.

While revenue and engagement may actually be bigger than ever, the sheer unit sales of dedicated consoles probably peaked in the mid-2000s to early-2010s, that was the "golden age" in that sense and it's a number we're unlikely to see again.
 
While revenue and engagement may actually be bigger than ever, the sheer unit sales of dedicated consoles probably peaked in the mid-2000s to early-2010s, that was the "golden age" in that sense and it's a number we're unlikely to see again.

For a lot of people diminishing returns happened after that, the graphical improvements had no appeal to them.
 
Yes, because we are talking about winning PS4 and PS5 people over and the people that have not been enjoying path tracing (which is a large majority of PC gamers).


Raster does get improvements, including techniques like FSR4 and its successors. Raster side of things will benefit from clockspeed improvements and improvements to the memory architecture and CUs, from the Zen 6 cores vs Zen 2 ones, but a lot of the gains will come thanks to features brought in for the other things I mentioned (including AI).
The actual new HW being brought in exclusively to pump out RT will be lower and the speedup on pure raster performance, outside of AI use, will be smaller than the one it will get for titles using Path Tracing.


If I go by such evidence the market is doomed as they do not buy the latest HW and many pirate most if not all games they play.

Do you think theres a chance that games will look better than the current games, to incentivise people to upgrade? - I am interested to see how it goes, but I am a little concerned that they are basically going to say. Heres borderlands 4 and it now runs at a locked 60fps with a res increase. Basically what we have seen this gen. Then throw a low powered handheld in there.

Im sure there will be PC handhelds out by the PS handheld thats more powerful and runs every launcher possible for a few hundred dollars more.
 
Xbox failing to sell well in this gen is not the reason for lower comparative sales, it's the result of it.
The actual reason is the lack of price drops - we have price hikes instead. When previous gens would flat out they'd drop the price and revitalize sales. In this gen we see the opposite so it's hardly surprising that cumulative sales are lower.
And yes, this is a new reality for consoles. Platform owners will have to deal with this somehow if they still want to sell as many consoles are previously.
 
The data shows pc gaming is growing massively and consoles are in decline.
That's a lie though
Both PC and consoles are on growing trends in both players and revenue, some up and downs on particular year is irrelevant
And then there are tiny details who, when, how etc.

Like gaming PC is ~shrinking~ playerwise in developed world and expanding (at faster pace) in emerging markets on low-end part of spectrum. But both are expanding revenue wise due to continued rise of f2p with aggressive monetization.

Consoles have some issues on their own, like slow transition of generations, but overall market is growing for both Nintendo and Sony in both players and revenue. And Xbox is just a failure.

If you are a suit or investor you see this data and not one would want to invest in consoles over PC. That then makes a whole load of issues and doubt around console platforms.
If I am investor I will look not at this bullshit but rather at revenue/profit trends and Sony has is very good numbers there.
Their console playerbase is around 150mil now - that's a lot to monetize

Sony and MS killing Xbox has been the biggest hit to console gaming possible. As it's basically wiped 20 odd million off console gamings overall number and that's what these bean counters see. Sony have failed to win over the Xbox crowd and even some of their own previous customers.
It's not wiped - a lot of them will go to ps/switch
Sony current playerbase is ~150 mil of PS4+PS5 and a lot of them are not from ps3-ps4 generations. Wiped means that they are cease to exists and if they are just taking their time to upgrade while still remain in ecosystem and spend money there - it's not wiped, it's just stratification and changing platform landscape to current realities when cheap entry doesn't mean wait for late of generation but rather stay in the previous generation altogether. There is no 250$ PS5 and probably never will and people who are price sensitive up to this point have no choice as to stay on PS4.

People talking in news headers very conviniently ignore huge outstanding PS4 crowd, even though itll be as to ignore everything prior to 4000 series as not existing. Let's do it and you'll see that PC gaming in even heavier decline
 
That's a lie though
Both PC and consoles are on growing trends in both players and revenue, some up and downs on particular year is irrelevant
And then there are tiny details who, when, how etc.

Like gaming PC is ~shrinking~ playerwise in developed world and expanding (at faster pace) in emerging markets on low-end part of spectrum. But both are expanding revenue wise due to continued rise of f2p with aggressive monetization.

Consoles have some issues on their own, like slow transition of generations, but overall market is growing for both Nintendo and Sony in both players and revenue. And Xbox is just a failure.


If I am investor I will look not at this bullshit but rather at revenue/profit trends and Sony has is very good numbers there.
Their console playerbase is around 150mil now - that's a lot to monetize


It's not wiped - a lot of them will go to ps/switch
Sony current playerbase is ~150 mil of PS4+PS5 and a lot of them are not from ps3-ps4 generations. Wiped means that they are cease to exists and if they are just taking their time to upgrade while still remain in ecosystem and spend money there - it's not wiped, it's just stratification and changing platform landscape to current realities when cheap entry doesn't mean wait for late of generation but rather stay in the previous generation altogether. There is no 250$ PS5 and probably never will and people who are price sensitive up to this point have no choice as to stay on PS4.

People talking in news headers very conviniently ignore huge outstanding PS4 crowd, even though itll be as to ignore everything prior to 4000 series as not existing. Let's do it and you'll see that PC gaming in even heavier decline

So, for the first generation ever, you and others are lumping together PS4 and PS5 and you cant see how negative that is?
 
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So, for the first generation ever, you and others are lumping together PS4 and PS5 and you cant see how negative that is?
What the negative in this for console market as a whole? Players play games, platforms owners earn money, everybody is happy.

It's inevitable consequences of Moore Law death and it's stop-gap solution before proper tier hardware, similar to PC, will not be implemented.
 
What the negative in this for console market as a whole? Players play games, platforms owners earn money, everybody is happy.

It's inevitable consequences of Moore Law death and it's stop-gap solution before proper tier hardware, similar to PC, will not be implemented.

Its the snowball effect this has on the perception of the market. Lets say those PS4 players dont bother updating to a ps5 because it costs too much...and if PS5 owners, especially pro owners do not bother buying a PS6 or PS handheld. Yes there might be profit and spend happening on fortnite but console sales slow even more and the "current gen" drops.

Investors etc are not going to be willing to invest in next gen.

Im not trying to be doom and gloom but I really am holding out to see what GTA 6 does. I think everyone does. If enough teenagers etc do not bother going out to buy GTA 6 and its just us oldies harping on about it then I could see some serious alarm bells and doom and gloom from investors and analysts.
 
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This is a dumb analysis. Yes, console sales (like Xbox) are down, but many people are still playing on older consoles (PS4/Xbox One). And that's due to several factors: higher prices, games still being available on those older systems (including the most played ones), and so on.

Consoles have more active players than ever right now. Suggesting that consoles are declining based solely on sales is a really dumb assumption.
The main factor for old consoles like the PS4 is longevity.

You could buy a PS6 at launch and it'll still be a viable option for many 10-15 years later.
 
90's-early 00's was the height of PC gaming until piracy killed it
A lot of current era console heavy hitters came from PC of that time (BG, Fallout, Elder Scrolls etc)
I agree with you as that is by far my favorite era of PC gaming BUT I will say that it's because it's the height of gaming in general IMO.

6th generation of consoles are the peak for me in general.
 
This is not rocket science, the prices are so high that you might as well build a PC for a couple hundreds more. The games are less expensive and online is better and free.

Who the fuck thinks it's fine for console prices to go UP over time. The hardware inside is ancient af.
 
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Its the snowball effect this has on the perception of the market. Lets say those PS4 players dont bother updating to a ps5 because it costs too much...and if PS5 owners, especially pro owners do not bother buying a PS6 or PS handheld. Yes there might be profit and spend happening on fortnite but console sales slow even more and the "current gen" drops.
I always like this analogy - why people but new cars when combustion engines had little progress for over 50 years? For pretty much the same reasons people will buy new consoles - they are new, they have some feature past gen didn't not directly related to flops performance, there is a cycle of renewal as electronics dies like everyone else and consumers will get actual model etc.
We already see this when PS6 main proposition is not power but rather advanced techs and it'll probably be split in tiers of performance - Canis, Orion and maybe os6pro somewhere down the line.

And of course some (a lot) of people will bother because "out of tflops" features might have significant impact.
Like SSD IO stack was a huge leap for PS5 over PS4Pro even though its not linked to tflops performance

Investors etc are not going to be willing to invest in next gen.
Why wouldn't they? You seems to live in delusional bubble as many are in regards to investors
Investors want money. Simply as that. Not some abstract metrics, blablabla sales of next gen etc. It's money. Not even growth, money. Money can be substitute with growth or some other metrics but money always preferable as investor can choose what to do with them - increase share (which for investor is the same as company growth) or invest into some other opportunities. And money have a winning quality of being a real cash and not some paper profit that can evaporate overnight.

Im not trying to be doom and gloom but I really am holding out to see what GTA 6 does. I think everyone does. If enough teenagers etc do not bother going out to buy GTA 6 and its just us oldies harping on about it then I could see some serious alarm bells and doom and gloom from investors and analysts.
You see what you want to see. And some of this analysts/investors/journos are just paid shills working for you know whom.
Reputable analysts doesn't go this "20m" bullshit, they provide detailed data covering all angles (lots of data on many tens of pages) and don't comment them in newspaper headers "baiting" style
 
I mean…you had 3 brands selling consoles and now you have 2. And yet PS5 is only 2M behind the PS4 and Switch 2 is breaking all records after having the first console hitting 150M consoles. How are consoles in danger? Also at least Sony has realized it at this point and they have had the biggest crossgen period ever between the ps4 and ps5. It will be even longer between the ps5 and ps6.
Shouldn't a console with less competition sell more than before? And 2 million less is quite a lot. We're not talking about 20k or even 200k here, it's a whole 2 million less. It's not just 2 million fewer consoles sold. It's fewer games sold and fewer PS+ subscriptions and dlc/addons sold.

And I do not think that consoles are in any kind of danger.
 
Shouldn't a console with less competition sell more than before? And 2 million less is quite a lot. We're not talking about 20k or even 200k here, it's a whole 2 million less. It's not just 2 million fewer consoles sold. It's fewer games sold and fewer PS+ subscriptions and dlc/addons sold.

And I do not think that consoles are in any kind of danger.

I agreed. The console market is shrinking. If Playstation was gobbling up the fleeing Xbox-consumers, their numbers would be higher. As it stands, most of the missing Xbox-console-buyers have probably moved to PC or moved from multiplatform (both Xbox and PS5) to single-platform (PS5).
 
I've recently been looking at getting a PS5 and I went on to the PS Store to browse through the games. I ranked the games by most popular/best selling or whatever and scrolled down through and man you quickly realize there just really isn't that many big notable games this gen. Some of the big games are also cross gen(Cyberpunk, Elden Ring)

It also just seems like there are not really that many big notable games to come out in the future either. Like GTA 6 and Witcher 4...that's it?....Witcher 4 will probably also be a cross gen game for PS5/PS6...

GTA 6 will probably end up being the only gen defining game for PS5/XSX era....
 
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I always like this analogy - why people but new cars when combustion engines had little progress for over 50 years? For pretty much the same reasons people will buy new consoles - they are new, they have some feature past gen didn't not directly related to flops performance, there is a cycle of renewal as electronics dies like everyone else and consumers will get actual model etc.
We already see this when PS6 main proposition is not power but rather advanced techs and it'll probably be split in tiers of performance - Canis, Orion and maybe os6pro somewhere down the line.

And of course some (a lot) of people will bother because "out of tflops" features might have significant impact.
Like SSD IO stack was a huge leap for PS5 over PS4Pro even though its not linked to tflops performance


Why wouldn't they? You seems to live in delusional bubble as many are in regards to investors
Investors want money. Simply as that. Not some abstract metrics, blablabla sales of next gen etc. It's money. Not even growth, money. Money can be substitute with growth or some other metrics but money always preferable as investor can choose what to do with them - increase share (which for investor is the same as company growth) or invest into some other opportunities. And money have a winning quality of being a real cash and not some paper profit that can evaporate overnight.


You see what you want to see. And some of this analysts/investors/journos are just paid shills working for you know whom.
Reputable analysts doesn't go this "20m" bullshit, they provide detailed data covering all angles (lots of data on many tens of pages) and don't comment them in newspaper headers "baiting" style

Its deffo going to be interesting to see how it goes. I see your points and I do think they make some sense. I just have no idea how its going to play out. I've never seen as many people be as down on a generation of consoles as this one, and the numbers show that the overall TAM of high end consoles has and is contracting considerably. Now, PS5 might be only 2 million behind. it's going to take some time to see how these price hikes and releases affect this generation. We wont know until a couple more years.

Every one is looking towards GTA 6 to save this generation, that's a problem in itself in my opinion. We should be demanding more from these platform holders, but if they do not care...I dont think end users will care, and they will move to the platform that simply makes the most sense and thats PC. we are seeing it happen in real time, but we do not have enough data to see how bad it actually is. It might be nothing.

I cant wait to see the PS6 and the handheld etc as I think its going to be the most interesting generation to see how adoption goes. No Covid or similar (hopefully). We shall see.
 
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At some point we are going to hit a point where the tech can get better, but it doesn't make economic sense to spend the money to make games more complex/look better.

We are getting closer and closer to that point.
 
For a lot of people diminishing returns happened after that, the graphical improvements had no appeal to them.
I think this is one of the reasons, but I'd also point to others: hardware keeps getting more expensive, mobile and PC are growing, and each new generation feels less unique (which fits with what you said).

I actually owned all three consoles this gen (Switch, PS5, and Series X), but honestly, it just wasn't worth it. I sold the Series X and PS5 and built a PC that's way better than both. Now I can play pretty much the same games without paying for online, I've got a bigger library, cheaper prices, emulators, mods, you name it. The only system I kept was the Switch because of the exclusives and the "hybrid factor," which really sets it apart.

If console makers want to keep growing their audience, they need to give people stronger reasons to buy; otherwise, a lot of us just won't bother.
 
At some point we are going to hit a point where the tech can get better, but it doesn't make economic sense to spend the money to make games more complex/look better.

We are getting closer and closer to that point.

When we see games reach this then we can say we're getting close.


 
Every one is looking towards GTA 6 to save this generation, that's a problem in itself in my opinion. We should be demanding more from these platform holders, but if they do not care...I dont think end users will care, and they will move to the platform that simply makes the most sense and thats PC. we are seeing it happen in real time, but we do not have enough data to see how bad it actually is. It might be nothing.
Personally I think that PS5 will have troubles reaching PS4 levels and some people will transfer from PS4 directly to PS6 especially if Canis console will be thing.
But there are too much variables to tell. Prices are not dropping and it affects sales due to elasticity of demand. But as it's a common issue for all platform it's hard to estimate this elasticity. For those who have gaming hobby it should be pretty inelastic (meaning not much drop in sales even w/o price cuts), for others it should take some effect reducing sales.
And various territory dynamics also blur picture - NA keep hold for now but there is tariff and majority of their impact expected only in next year, EU dropped ball (their economic conditions are bad), new territories seems to perform well enough (and they are on the rise) - how it will play out for next 3 years(?) till PS6 drops is very uncertain.

At some point we are going to hit a point where the tech can get better, but it doesn't make economic sense to spend the money to make games more complex/look better.
There is always a path to spend power to make game cheaper, like using UE5 or mandatory RT, that in turn free money to make games more complex/look better. Extra power always will be utilized in some way to make games better
 
At some point we are going to hit a point where the tech can get better, but it doesn't make economic sense to spend the money to make games more complex/look better.

We are getting closer and closer to that point.
IMO, everything that looks better than Fortnite is a complete waste of resources.

Chess wouldn't be a better game if Michaelangelo spent 12 months carving each piece.
 
Every one is looking towards GTA 6 to save this generation, that's a problem in itself in my opinion. We should be demanding more from these platform holders, but if they do not care...I dont think end users will care, and they will move to the platform that simply makes the most sense and thats PC. we are seeing it happen in real time, but we do not have enough data to see how bad it actually is. It might be nothing.

I cant wait to see the PS6 and the handheld etc as I think its going to be the most interesting generation to see how adoption goes. No Covid or similar (hopefully). We shall see.
This...gen doesn't need saving. Games sell consoles. GTAVI is just another game. And like in any other generation since PS2, they are the biggest games. It's a system seller.

And next gen will start slower, depending on the price of the home console. If the PS6 sells for like 600 bucks, it's just not going to happen as fast as the PS5. I feel the console will sell better adding all points of entry: handheld, home console etc...and Sony will have more MAU records. But the home console specifically? Nah.
 
I didn't say they were doing bad, but breaking records is what this industry does in the macro every gen, and the growth curve is starting to stagnate across the industry for being able to grab new users.
Xbox never broke any gaming industry record. Nintendo and specially Sony did, but not every generation.

PS1, PS2, Wii+DS and in a smaller scale PS4, PS5 and Switch have been adding a meaningful amount of new console players. But Xbox has been losing them in the previous generation and particularly this one.

So it isn't a "console market" growth issue, it's just that XB is dying. But PS and Nintendo are better than ever.

There is also an issue regarding how the amount of console players are counted: it's done adding the players of each platform, not considering that an important percentage of players own multiple consoles of the same or multiple brands. But in any case, the console market keeps growing both in userbase and revenue despite many challenges like covid, huge inflation, fucked off global economy, retarded tariffs, people and countries having too large debts, issues getting components because virtual currency miners, AI servers or electric cars spiked their demand increasing prices (resulting on price increases and people being able to spend less money on luxuries like gaming).

The console market is shrinking.
This is not true, the factual data says that the console market is growing and that only Xbox is shrinking.

Sony & Nintendo benefit from taking Xbox marketshare, but Sony for example is not grabbing new users at the same percentage as PS4 was able to grow vs the PS3.
PS5 got more new users than the ones XB lost, more new users than the ones they got in PS3 and PS4.

What is particularly special in this generation is that 5 years into the generation, the percentage of PS players who continue in the previous generation is way higher than usual at this point. That happens because they continue getting great games, since AAA games take way longer to be made several top IPs and studios still didn't have current gen only main games, or that they continue engaged with GaaS and PS+ there that still continue getting support, or that they can't afford to migrate yet due fucked up personal economy (this generation having had price increases instead of price cuts didn't help).

The current gen only releases of new GTA, CoD, Bungie and so on should make a good chunk of this people upgrade to the current gen. Meaning, PS5 will have record hardware sales in second half of its lifetime.

The reason it still looks great is the revenue generated from subscriptions, services and DLC has grown massively, even to the point where Microsoft's service growth is making up for having less people buying hardware. The industry is making more money per person, but the growth of new people is stagnating. Maybe "good" would've been a better word than "fine", but it's not great imo. PC & mobile gaming are also experiencing similar growth stagnation, with the exception of PC GPUs for AI.
No, both the gaming industry and console gaming industry continues growing in the amount of players at normal rates. In case of consoles, you also have to consider that console sales aren't the same across their lifetime, vary across their generations. Traditionally start strong the first year and keeps growing until peaks normally somewhere between their 2nd or 5th year and after that keeps decreasing until replaced by its successor.

Depending on each console case, that peak is taller or shorter, wider or shorter, and the tail after the peak is longer or shorter. But the pattern always is there. Right now we're in the post peak tail of Xbox Series, PS4, PS5 and Switch, and now Switch 2 just started. So it's a part of the generation where there are less console sales than in others.

Also, everyone but Nintendo is now a multi-plat software publisher, just Sony has a delay timer on single-player content.
Nintendo makes mobile games and apps, plus movies, theme parks, toys and so on.

But yes, all AAA publishers have been moving to focus more in multiplatform because AAA budgets need so. Nintendo game budgets are way cheaper and several of their games have huge sales numbers on their own platform, so don't have pressure to go multiplatform.

Every one is looking towards GTA 6 to save this generation,
This generation doesn't need to be saved, Sony and Nintendo have been breaking records for a while without GTA6

When we see games reach this then we can say we're getting close.



We already saw games like Death Stranding 2 and so on

Shouldn't a console with less competition sell more than before? And 2 million less is quite a lot. We're not talking about 20k or even 200k here, it's a whole 2 million less. It's not just 2 million fewer consoles sold. It's fewer games sold and fewer PS+ subscriptions and dlc/addons sold.
According to Sony PS5 is generating more revenue than PS4 and any other previous generation both in total and on average per user in:
  • Hardware revenue
  • Game revenue (full game sales + addons)
  • Accesories revenue
  • Subscription revenue
  • Total user average spent
  • Playtime
And 2M in hardware units isn't a lot, it's just around 2% or so.
 
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Xbox never broke any gaming industry record. Nintendo and specially Sony did, but not every generation.

PS1, PS2, Wii+DS and in a smaller scale PS4, PS5 and Switch have been adding a meaningful amount of new console players. But Xbox has been losing them in the previous generation and particularly this one.

So it isn't a "console market" growth issue, it's just that XB is dying. But PS and Nintendo are better than ever.

There is also an issue regarding how the amount of console players are counted: it's done adding the players of each platform, not considering that an important percentage of players own multiple consoles of the same or multiple brands. But in any case, the console market keeps growing both in userbase and revenue despite many challenges like covid, huge inflation, fucked off global economy, retarded tariffs, people and countries having too large debts, issues getting components because virtual currency miners, AI servers or electric cars spiked their demand increasing prices (resulting on price increases and people being able to spend less money on luxuries like gaming).


This is not true, the factual data says that the console market is growing and that only Xbox is shrinking.


PS5 got more new users than the ones XB lost, more new users than the ones they got in PS3 and PS4.

What is particularly special in this generation is that 5 years into the generation, the percentage of PS players who continue in the previous generation is way higher than usual at this point. That happens because they continue getting great games, since AAA games take way longer to be made several top IPs and studios still didn't have current gen only main games, or that they continue engaged with GaaS and PS+ there that still continue getting support, or that they can't afford to migrate yet due fucked up personal economy (this generation having had price increases instead of price cuts didn't help).

The current gen only releases of new GTA, CoD, Bungie and so on should make a good chunk of this people upgrade to the current gen. Meaning, PS5 will have record hardware sales in second half of its lifetime.


No, both the gaming industry and console gaming industry continues growing in the amount of players at normal rates. In case of consoles, you also have to consider that console sales aren't the same across their lifetime, vary across their generations. Traditionally start strong the first year and keeps growing until peaks normally somewhere between their 2nd or 5th year and after that keeps decreasing until replaced by its successor.

Depending on each console case, that peak is taller or shorter, wider or shorter, and the tail after the peak is longer or shorter. But the pattern always is there. Right now we're in the post peak tail of Xbox Series, PS4, PS5 and Switch, and now Switch 2 just started. So it's a part of the generation where there are less console sales than in others.


Nintendo makes mobile games and apps, plus movies, theme parks, toys and so on.

But yes, all AAA publishers have been moving to focus more in multiplatform because AAA budgets need so. Nintendo game budgets are way cheaper and several of their games have huge sales numbers on their own platform, so don't have pressure to go multiplatform.


This generation doesn't need to be saved, Sony and Nintendo have been breaking records for a while without GTA6


We already saw games like Death Stranding 2 and so on


According to Sony PS5 is generating more revenue than PS4 and any other previous generation both in total and on average per user in:
  • Hardware revenue
  • Game revenue (full game sales + addons)
  • Accesories revenue
  • Subscription revenue
  • Total user average spent
  • Playtime
And 2M in hardware units isn't a lot, it's just around 2% or so.
Sure they are milking the smaller userbase more. It's not good for us, only for Sony.
 
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Xbox never broke any gaming industry record. Nintendo and specially Sony did, but not every generation.

PS1, PS2, Wii+DS and in a smaller scale PS4, PS5 and Switch have been adding a meaningful amount of new console players. But Xbox has been losing them in the previous generation and particularly this one.

So it isn't a "console market" growth issue, it's just that XB is dying. But PS and Nintendo are better than ever.
I never said Xbox broke any records, they've only floundered post-360 era. I was saying each gen the console market typically outsold the previous generation. You didn't just get a higher amount of users in total, you got a higher percentage of them at a faster pace than before.

PS5 got more new users than the ones XB lost, more new users than the ones they got in PS3 and PS4.
News last year was remarking the PS5 5 years in was selling less than the PS4 did at the same point by a few million, with a slower pace of PS5 Pro units sold than the PS4 Pro. The PS4 sold considerably more than its predecessor, but PS5 is not repeating that...if it was I'd say they're doing great. Even asking chatgbt it remarks the 5 year estimates of the console gen so far is slightly lower than last-gen, and even just searching it I can find multiple different articles right away remarking about it.

I don't think consoles are dying, but the industry in general seems to be stagnating when it's usually never stopped growing at a particularly significant pace. I do think the bad economy, covid shortages, price increases, and simply hardware improvements stagnating are keeping more people on older hardware still receiving considerable support. Longer dev times on first-party titles, and various service-based titles add to that, though to be fair most service-based games fail. Sony experiencing only slightly lowered numbers, making more revenue off subscriptions and third-party DLC, I think indicates they're more than secure in the market, but I don't think they're doing great.

The current gen only releases of new GTA, CoD, Bungie and so on should make a good chunk of this people upgrade to the current gen. Meaning, PS5 will have record hardware sales in second half of its lifetime.
We'll see what GTA does, but CoD + Bungie aren't strong arguments to me. CoD has had multiple years to shift people over, and this year's version is still releasing on last-gen consoles. Bungie is just in a bad place imo, where Destiny's last expansion I've only heard complaining about, and Marathon was delayed indefinitely to be re-tooled because of its poor initial showing. I do think it's possible Sony could get better sales in this 2nd half, but I think the economy has to turn around for that to happen, given the PS5 costs more now than it did at launch. If these factors didn't exist against Sony, I do think they would be doing better this gen.

Nintendo seems like they might be fairing the best given how quickly the Switch 2 is selling, and that I think it having portability helps during a gen of diminished returns on graphics + last-gen machines getting ports so it will also get most of the third-party games vs the Switch 1.

Nintendo makes mobile games and apps, plus movies, theme parks, toys and so on.

But yes, all AAA publishers have been moving to focus more in multiplatform because AAA budgets need so. Nintendo game budgets are way cheaper and several of their games have huge sales numbers on their own platform, so don't have pressure to go multiplatform.
That's true lol, I keep forgetting they make mobile games. And yeah, I think the lower budgets of Nintendo have always been smart, and it allows them to retain exclusivity since they don't have anything like Spiderman 2's 300 million budget. They've also done the best job at keeping most of their IP continually relevant, whereas I think Microsoft + Sony leave IP behind that still has value.
 
IMO, everything that looks better than Fortnite is a complete waste of resources.
Chess wouldn't be a better game if Michaelangelo spent 12 months carving each piece.
Go play pong and don't bother us, who wants a ~beautiful~ picture with that pixelart trash

Sure they are milking the smaller userbase more. It's not good for us, only for Sony.
Keep sprouting bullshit, maybe it stick somewhere.

Sony experiencing only slightly lowered numbers, making more revenue off subscriptions and third-party DLC, I think indicates they're more than secure in the market, but I don't think they're doing great.
Humans used to have life expectancy of 30 years and have 5+ children in family. Now life expectancy is 70-80 years and less than 2 children.
Same for consoles - turnaround become slower and there is now 2.5 active generations on the market at the same time. PS4 already almost 12 years old, one of the longest lifespan of console and there are still no end in sight for it.
It just shows that technology is matured and fast turnaround replaced by more stable slower paced approach.
 
Go play pong and don't bother us, who wants a ~beautiful~ picture with that pixelart trash
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VS

Pong.png
 

vs

SzmIBQk5NWmcbmDa.jpg


You are setting some arbitrary ceiling. And for that I say that if you want to "focus on gameplay" - graphics should not be a thing at all for you. Chess doesn't have graphics, Pong level is enough for it.
And I want Wukong PT picture quality and not some old shitty mess on 2 screens above
 
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SzmIBQk5NWmcbmDa.jpg


You are setting some arbitrary ceiling. And for that I say that if you want to "focus on gameplay" - graphics should not be a thing at all for you. Chess doesn't have graphics, Pong level is enough for it.
And I want Wukong PT picture quality and not some old shitty mess on 2 screens above

I never said Pong level Graphics were enough. I said anything over Fortnite was a waste of resources.

Do you really think you had more fun playing RE4 Remake in 2023 than you did Resident Evil 4 in 2007?

Your brain gets accustomed to visual fidelity way too fast. Otherwise you'd be drooling at the toaster in your kitchen and not be able to function.
 
I never said Pong level Graphics were enough. I said anything over Fortnite was a waste of resources.
You know, it's nothing more that your unbased opinion. And again - you are setting some arbitrary ceiling based on nothing. Pong level of graphics perfectly fits all your arguments, but for some reason you think that it's Fortnite that the "correct" level and not Pong.

Do you really think you had more fun playing RE4 Remake in 2023 than you did Resident Evil 4 in 2007?
I don't play RE, but I would have more fun playing RE4 remake in 2023 than playing RE4 in 2023. There were no option for remake quality in 2007 so I play and enjoy to the current state of things.

Your brain gets accustomed to visual fidelity way too fast. Otherwise you'd be drooling at the toaster in your kitchen and not be able to function.
Blablabla. Go play pong "Your brain gets accustomed to visual fidelity way too fast" and don't bother me who can discern picture quality between screens above.
Brain understands difference between screens provided and the last one is clearly more pleasing than Pong/Fortnite, brain knows this much for sure.
And as for toaster - it can be bulky and ugly as shit or it can be neat and eye-pleasing (equivalent of better graphics in games) and there is the whole industrial design field for this.

You particular problem is that you don't reflect on and error-check your position. If graphics advancement is unnecessary and gameplay is the king - this position is understandable and some people follows it, albeit it's not universal as people values differs - but it means that any graphics progression is unnecessary and thus graphics should be kept at cost efficient level - i.e. very primitive. Flappy bird is a core of this approach - gameplay based with simpliest graphics. And saying Fortnite level for cut-off is hipocrisy and bending own values for nicer picture. Because Fortnite even though not 12 month, but still 1 month per piece of Michaelangelo, and chess pieces doesn't really need it.
 
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Humans used to have life expectancy of 30 years and have 5+ children in family. Now life expectancy is 70-80 years and less than 2 children.
Same for consoles - turnaround become slower and there is now 2.5 active generations on the market at the same time. PS4 already almost 12 years old, one of the longest lifespan of console and there are still no end in sight for it.
It just shows that technology is matured and fast turnaround replaced by more stable slower paced approach.

Yeah, that's totally true. We've hit diminished returns on noticeable hardware improvements, more games are cross-gen this gen than any other, and the economy all keep people on older hardware. I do think over time the declining birth rates across the world will just mean less new kids to sell games to in the long-run, and ever increasing dev budgets will have to stop.
 
You know, it's nothing more that your unbased opinion. And again - you are setting some arbitrary ceiling based on nothing. Pong level of graphics perfectly fits all your arguments, but for some reason you think that it's Fortnite that the "correct" level and not Pong.


I don't play RE, but I would have more fun playing RE4 remake in 2023 than playing RE4 in 2023. There were no option for remake quality in 2007 so I play and enjoy to the current state of things.


Blablabla. Go play pong "Your brain gets accustomed to visual fidelity way too fast" and don't bother me who can discern picture quality between screens above.
Brain understands difference between screens provided and the last one is clearly more pleasing than Pong/Fortnite, brain knows this much for sure.
And as for toaster - it can be bulky and ugly as shit or it can be neat and eye-pleasing (equivalent of better graphics in games) and there is the whole industrial design field for this.

You particular problem is that you don't reflect on and error-check your position. If graphics advancement is unnecessary and gameplay is the king - this position is understandable and some people follows it, albeit it's not universal as people values differs - but it means that any graphics progression is unnecessary and thus graphics should be kept at cost efficient level - i.e. very primitive. Flappy bird is a core of this approach - gameplay based with simpliest graphics. And saying Fortnite level for cut-off is hipocrisy and bending own values for nicer picture. Because Fortnite even though not 12 month, but still 1 month per piece of Michaelangelo, and chess pieces doesn't really need it.
Nah, Pong fidelity doesn't allow you to create worlds with limitless potential for game design.

No Man's Sky, Fortnite, RE4 (2007) etc...does.

Nintendo saw the limitation of graphical fidelity a while ago (post GameCube). If the rumors are true, the PlayStation 6 seems to be deprioritizing graphical fidelity in favor of price as well too.
 
I will give MS credit. The FUD is taking hold, at least on enthusiast sites. A lot of "just get a PC" and a lot of people thinking PlayStation and Nintendo are doomed too. I will be curious to see if it starts impacting casual/console gamers.
 
Nah, Pong fidelity doesn't allow you to create worlds with limitless potential for game design.
For gameplay only games? In 95% cases it's more than enough

No Man's Sky, Fortnite, RE4 (2007) etc...does.
Not really.
"Movie" games suffers greatly from bad graphics. Bad graphics also heavily limits/simplifying semaphoring in action games making them less of analytical style and more of autistic style. Some things are not possible without good graphics - like we are still leagues away from proper stealth game where stealth means blending with environment and not just workaround gimmicks. Stealth in real-life works kinda differently to how it reflected in gameplay and thus there are lot of room to expanse.
Improving things open new opportunities - just because you do not know them now doesn't mean they don't exist.

Nintendo saw the limitation of graphical fidelity a while ago (post GameCube). If the rumors are true, the PlayStation 6 seems to be deprioritizing graphical fidelity in favor of price as well too.
They just non-competitive, so they stick in the strata they are very good and that is not graphics-sensitive - aka kids (pardon - "family with children") games
 
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