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DS Video - Puppy Times is Killer App

fennec fox

ferrets ferrets ferrets ferrets FERRETS!!!
Look, I think most of the board members would be in agreement when I say that GAF is a special board because we don't care about stupid shite like cliques and we don't make it into a personal issue when someone disagrees with us. We supposedly have the maturity to not let it bother us.

That marks the difference between this and almost any other board I have ever seen, and I want that difference to say. The people on this thread are putting the board in a new direction that isn't welcome in my eyes. So calm down.

I like Drinky for the same reason I like Doonesbury over Mallard Fillmore -- because he's funny
 
And you missed the point again. I have a few minutes, so I'll explain Animal Crossing to those that don't think it's a "game".

Pretty loose definition of a game, sport. I don't consider riding my bike a "game". I don't consider taking out the trash a "game". I don't consider going to the mall and buying Christmas presents a game. And I sure as hell don't consider collecting virtual knick-knacks, writing meaningless letters to virtual acquaintances, and dorking about with a virtual jukebox a game.

I do, however, consider the latter a little sad. I understand that some folks want games to be entirely about escapist fantasies, and I'm cool with that. But Animal Crossing -- it's all immersion, and no mechanics whatsoever. It's a tacit admission that you don't want to be challenged, but instead want an alternate reality, where your little obsessive-compulsive disorder is rewarded and everyone is nice to you in a safe, predictable fashion. It's a shallow little cartoon world conceitedly wed to a clock that apparently provides a sort of post-modern digital outlet for a select group of socially anxious and monstrously bored kids. That, and the little masturbatory Nintendo references, of course -- never let it be said that Drinky Crow discounts the narcotic influence of gamers' childhoods!

At the VERY least, if Animal Crossing WAS all about these moments, they could've wrapped it in a more modern audiovisual wrapper and given us some fuckin' eye candy.

Absolutely apropos to the definition of a game is the idea that there are SOME fundamental mathematical qualities underpinning the experience; algorithms to which the player provides input either directly or indirectly. That's what separates passive activities like watching a movie or reading a book from, say, Gradius V. That not to say that the code that comes on these little discs we covet can't provide passive experiences -- I'd venture that many Japanese RPGS, especially those of the Xenosaga creed, are probably closer to a Dragonlance novel than they are to Tetris -- but the less pervasive and critical the player's actions become in influencing the overall system state, the more they deviate from the original concept of a game, which is to provide a challenging, competitive set of mathematically deterministic rules under which to perform and measure yourself, and under which failure conditions are always a palpable possibility.

Animal Crossing has none of that; it's just a little shallow make-believe cartoon world for the anxious to try and lose themselves in. It's psychotherapy in its best form, and it's a complete waste of mental energy in its worst. It's another snowglobe -- shake it, and be mesmerized by the limited set of random events. If I want to experience a world of seemingly random events and interactions, I'LL GO OUTSIDE.

Personally, talking to NPCs in JRPGs has been very, VERY low on my list of things I enjoy in modern gaming, as has the aimless collection aspects of the N64 platformer set. Hell, even fucking Shenmue, garbage as it was, had a middling-to-decent fighting game wrapped up in it.

You can love or hate Animal Crossing, but your opinion doesn't change the fact that it's an amazingly unique game.

No, I've had plenty of chances to play shit like this back in the C64-era of gaming.

In conclusion, I knew Animal Crossing was brilliant was the first time I had K. K. Slider play a song. You just don't get moments like that in most games. Perhaps Nintendo fans see more in games than you think.

Or, maybe, just MAYBE, they shit their pants over nostalgic cues the rest of us don't get or do get but dismiss as crap because our tastes have expanded beyond a sixteen-year-old fanboy's arena.

Why do people enjoy riding down the road in a game if there's no race, nothing to kill or run over? Why would any gamer enjoy throwing a frisbee to a dog?

Because they're GAMES with MECHANICS? Terrain itself can be a serious challenge for any bicyclist, and teaching your dog to play catch takes a lot of effort and energy expended for a massive payoff. If not, they're just aimless activities; things that occupy time without purpose, kinda like, y'know, ANIMAL CROSSING.


You've criticized Nintendo for creating games that are mired in convention. And you're right. Wind Waker's control setup is outdated, especially with games like Prince of Persia and Ninja Gaiden on the market. There should be voice acting in the game as well.

I think voice acting is a plague on the industry.

So why then would you mire the industry in convention by defining what gamers should be enjoying? There will surely come a point at which you realize that the average game isn't interesting enough for you, and no developer will be there to fill that void. But that's what you wanted.

Again with the strawman. I don't care if ANY company makes Animal Crossing clones until the moon shits blood and Jesus comes back to save us all from AIDS monsters. I don't care if people enjoy -- hell, if they raise that banjo-playing dog up as a fucking idol and worship him --those sorts of experiences, but it doesn't change my point: that Animal Crossing is far closer to being an interactive screensaver for the OCD set than it is to being Kirby's Star Stacker.
 

Chipopo

Banned
fennec fox said:
Look, I think most of the board members would be in agreement when I say that GAF is a special board because we don't care about stupid shite like cliques and we don't make it into a personal issue when someone disagrees with us.

Haha, are you for serious? Many, MANY people have had grudges against Drinky Crow and MAF because of their opinions. MAF even proved the point when he faked having a broken Xbox...people flooded the thread with squeals of delight. #GA can be inevitibly cliquish at times. Overall GA is way better then most, but let's not pretend that shit doesn't go down.
 

Speevy

Banned
Well, I'm 21 years old, and I enjoyed the heck out of Animal Crossing. If (see, no strawman fallacy) you think there's something wrong with the folks who enjoyed a certain game, perhaps you should check on that ego.

You've adequately described Animal Crossing as an interactive screen saver and a snow globe.

I would not pay $50 for an interactive screen saver or snow globe, or anything so mundane and uninteresting.

Therefore, either some experienced and sound-minded people can indeed love Animal Crossing, or the ego apparent in your reply to this post will surely devour us all.
 

Speevy

Banned
mumu said:
You should've written a reply twice as long as his.



Drinky Crow Mod Edition sez: No posting of professional content in its entirety, comrade. Provide a link so IGN can get the hits.
 
And again, I'm not saying that people can't love Animal Crossing; I'm arguing that AC is NOT a game or that it's such a shitty game it might as well not be considered as one. From that, it follows that the love for AC and this Nintendogs trinket crap on the DS indicates that Nintendo fanboys either don't like proper games much at all or are trying to desperately defend their decision to remain fanboys in the face of Nintendo's misguided hubris.

Fuck, Armageddon is one of the best selling DVD movies of all time. I wouldn't dream of arguing that people can't love it, but I'll sure as hell argue that it's a shitty piece of goods.
 

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
ge-man said:
People need to learn to ignore trolls if they want to keep a decent discussion alive. You can't tell me that long time posters don't know what they are in for when Drinky decides participate in a particular thread.
But why should this behaviour be tolerated? Most other people would have been banned a long time ago if they acted the way he does. He and his fans may think that he's clever for getting a reaction from Nintendo fans but there's nothing inherently clever about being annoying. His persistence and the fact that he gets so much pleasure from it is quite pathetic to be honest. I could understand if he was a child but he is not. He's a grown man with a family. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a certain level of maturity from him. Even if, as a long time poster, you should know better.
 
I'm a bad man!

That said, I've given very precise reasons for my criticism of Nintendogs, the DS, and Animal Crossing. Sorry you don't like it; is there an opinion you'd like me to argue? We can be bestest friends, you know.
 

border

Member
ge-man said:
People need to learn to ignore trolls if they want to keep a decent discussion alive.
Seems like the discussion here has been better than in most threads. The question of what constitutes a game is a pretty interesting one. Is interactivity without purpose or challenge still a game, or is it something else?
The genre's called "simulation" , It's been around for a long time.
Except that simulation games generally do try to challenge the player. Even "primitive" forerunners like Sim City and Populus had you managing resources, dealing with random catastrophes, etc.
 

NLB2

Banned
NLB2 said:
So was I the only one who found Animal Crossing to be a terribley boring game but still apreciated it for its humor as a postmodern critique of the video game industry?

Drinky Crow said:
The promise is a sense of immersion based on the correspondence with a real-world calendar (along with a time-indexed database of NPC quotes and letters), but the end result is only sort of a modern ironic satire of the post-Industrial capitalist lifestyle, with the big joke being on the player for whom the collection of material goods and the shallow interaction with virtual acquiantances is ultimately the most absorbing pastime.

So do you apreciate the game for that joke on the player?
 

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
border said:
Is interactivity without purpose or challenge still a game, or is it something else?
I don't consider something like Nintendogs a game but I don't agree that there's no purpose to it. The objectives differ from those of a traditional game however. There are no set rules. But you can say that about a lot of socalled "games" today.
 

Jagernaut

Member
xsarien said:
Haven't been around here for very long, have you?


(C- FOREVER!)

Don't let the junior member tag fool you, i've been on GA for over 4 years. I just don't post that much. I've noticed the overreactions of Nintendo fans since i got here.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Speevy said:
And you missed the point again. I have a few minutes, so I'll explain Animal Crossing to those that don't think it's a "game".

Animal Crossing is all about moments. Those moments when you step outside your house in the rain. That moment on the 4th of July when fireworks go off. That moment when Totakeke Slider plays your favorite song. That moment when you receive a birthday present on your birthday. Animal Crossing is a world in which money really does grow on trees, and where families can communicate with one another by living in the same town. Simply put, Animal Crossing is the best game I've ever played.

I'm not trying to incite anything, but you can't be serious.

I mean, really... IT'S ABOUT MOMENTZ! WHEN U WALK IN THE RAIN OR GET A BIRTHDAY PRESENT!! MOMENTZ! HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THIS, ITZ SO UNIQUE!!?11

Ok, all joking aside, you're talking about trolling, but you're taking things waaaaaaay too seriously. I mean, the fact that you honestly just tried to write about Animal Crossing as if you were talking about your first orgasm is pretty sad.

Animal Crossing has nothing to do with moments. This is my opinion, obviously. But I play videogames for gameplay. Animal Crossing had none. You say that means I'm looking at the wrong way. But good gameplay is always what has made good games, and that's just the way it is. I can appreciate why you enjoy Animal Crossing. You're very earnest about your feelings, if nothing else. But it simply is not transcendent.
 

Speevy

Banned
Amir0x said:
I'm not trying to incite anything, but you can't be serious.

I mean, really... IT'S ABOUT MOMENTZ! WHEN U WALK IN THE RAIN OR GET A BIRTHDAY PRESENT!! MOMENTZ! HOW CAN YOU NOT LIKE THIS, ITZ SO UNIQUE!!?11

Ok, all joking aside, you're talking about trolling, but you're taking things waaaaaaay too seriously. I mean, the fact that you honestly just tried to write about Animal Crossing as if you were talking about your first orgasm is pretty sad.

Animal Crossing has nothing to do with moments. This is my opinion, obviously. But I play videogames for gameplay. Animal Crossing had none. You say that means I'm looking at the wrong way. But good gameplay is always what has made good games, and that's just the way it is. I can appreciate why you enjoy Animal Crossing. You're very earnest about your feelings, if nothing else. But it simply is not transcendent.


Why do you persist with this line of reasoning?

You have acknowledged that it is your opinion, and I never said you have to love Animal Crossing.

Nothing that anyone has said about the game is an absolute truth, and taking shots at me only proves that you realize this fact.

We could go back and forth between "AC is brilliant" and "AC is a gimmicky non-game." all day.

I'm not crazy or sad. I'm just someone who likes certain games for certain reasons and dislikes other ones. There are no words that any person on this forum can put together to make that otherwise, or even to make Animal Crossing less to those that like the game.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Animal Crossing was a great game.
 

olimario

Banned
Amir0x is a joke. He must be.
From the moment he's arrived he has done nothing but baselessly troll Nintendo.

Animal Crossing DS, like Puppy Times, will be a killer application. I'm sure it will come with all of the wonderful features of AC GCN and have plently of multiplayer minigames and such for the DS's wireless capability.

It's not a game? :lol
SIMS isn't a game either. MILLIONS HAVE BEEN DECEIVED!
 

Amir0x

Banned
Speevy said:
Why do you persist with this line of reasoning?

You have acknowledged that it is your opinion, and I never said you have to love Animal Crossing.

Nothing that anyone has said about the game is an absolute truth, and taking shots at me only proves that you realize this fact.

We could go back and forth between "AC is brilliant" and "AC is a gimmicky non-game." all day.

I'm not crazy or sad. I'm just someone who likes certain games for certain reasons and dislikes other ones. There are no words that any person on this forum can put together to make that otherwise, or even to make Animal Crossing less to those that like the game.

No, I just don't think you realize how you sound when you type up certain statements like that particular Animal Crossing rant. It does not help people understand; the fervor actually sounds irrational.

But you're right, we're just going to end up in circles. Don't be mistaken, I respect your opinion. If you like Animal Crossing, more power to you. But you kept going on about what makes AC good, so I just kept feeling the need to tell you why I feel AC is garbage.

So, that's that partnah.
 

Amir0x

Banned
olimario said:
Amir0x is a joke. He must be.
From the moment he's arrived he has done nothing but baselessly troll Nintendo.

Animal Crossing DS, like Puppy Times, will be a killer application. I'm sure it will come with all of the wonderful features of AC GCN and have plently of multiplayer minigames and such for the DS's wireless capability.

It's not a game? :lol
SIMS isn't a game either. MILLIONS HAVE BEEN DECEIVED!

I'm sorry that I don't like every Nintendo game mindlessly like you, Mr. Nintendrone, but Animal Crossing is a piece of garbage. Sorry. There's no legitimate way anyone can defend it, although I respect your right to enjoy it. I play games with gameplay, Animal Crossing has none. There's nothing "baseless" about what I've said.

Now if you're in the line of reasoning that Puppy Times will be a killer app for Nintendo DS and that it'll be a chick magnet, then I can do nothing but feel sorry for your hilarious misguided, dellusional Nintendo-fumed mind.

P.S. If you want to talk about baseless, then please don't bring up the Sims. You see, The Sims actually has a modicum of strategy that must be applied in order to proceed. You can even die. The strategy comes in the increasingly intense level of multitasking you must perform, and in this you find a core of gameplay that although I think is weak, it's still better than AC. So don't be fucking stupid.
 

border

Member
The Sims has users employ micromanagement, multitasking capabilities, keeping an eye on finances/career, and time-management. I still consider it an anti-game, but at least there's consequences for what you do and a ton of freedom the types of interpersonal relationships you create among the characters....
 

olimario

Banned
Nintendrone? Greekboy?
You're pathetic. :lol

I'm sorry that I don't like every Nintendo game mindlessly like you, Mr. Nintendrone, but Animal Crossing is a piece of garbage. Sorry. There's no legitimate way anyone can defend it, although I respect your right to enjoy it. I play games with gameplay, Animal Crossing has none. There's nothing "baseless" about what I've said.

88% on GameRankings.
Over a million copies sold.
Not baseless? You get more ridiculous by the post. :lol
 

Speevy

Banned
Amir0x said:
P.S. If you want to talk about baseless, then please don't bring up the Sims. You see, The Sims actually has a modicum of strategy that must be applied in order to proceed. You can even die. The strategy comes in the increasingly intense level of multitasking you must perform, and in this you find a core of gameplay that although I think is weak, it's still better than AC. So don't be fucking stupid.


http://cube.ign.com/articles/388/388670p1.html

IGN: God bless him. Now for many console gamers out there, the closest thing that they've played to The Sims might be Nintendo's Animal Crossing for GameCube. How are these games different?

MP: I love Animal Crossing. I think its open-ended nature has a lot in common with The Sims, and both games allow players to express their creativity and unlock new items. However, I have yet to see my character in Animal Crossing pee on the kitchen floor. The Sims is certainly unique.


I guess this guy disagrees with you.
 

Amir0x

Banned
olimario said:
88% on GameRankings.
Over a million copies sold.
Not baseless? You get more ridiculous by the post. :lol

D...Did you just use Gamerankings score as a way to prove quality? Did you just use POPULARITY as a way to prove quality? :lol :lol

Seriously, if you're going to defend that game, make sure you do it with some level of intelligence. Saying that "popularity" or "average of review scroes" is proof of a quality title proves that you are the single most stupid person ever to live.

So, get back to me when you actually have a legitimate defense. Or you can go on about how Animal Crossing is all about MOMENTZ WITHOUT GAMEPLAY, and I'll just laugh some more.
 

border

Member
Still more Gamerankings and sales whoring? Sad sad sad. A B-average game sold a million copies.....there can't be anything wrong with it!
 

Amir0x

Banned
Speevy said:

Except he's factually wrong, since there is no penalty or strategy behind what you must do in Animal Crossing. That's not even an opinion. In Sims you can die; In AC you can't. In Sims you must manage your tasks appropriately or your family/life will fall apart; In AC, you must collect more stuff. Even though if you never collected stuff at all, nothing would happen!
 

Speevy

Banned
Amir0x said:
D...Did you just use Gamerankings score as a way to prove quality? Did you just use POPULARITY as a way to prove quality? :lol :lol



Our argument may be over, but I really don't think any source is credible enough for you. I think that saves you and olimario a bit of time, since the game also won 3 AIAS awards for game design, RPG of the year, and innovation.
 

Speevy

Banned
Amir0x said:
Except he's factually wrong, since there is no penalty or strategy behind what you must do in Animal Crossing. That's not even an opinion. In Sims you can die; In AC you can't. In Sims you must manage your tasks appropriately or your family/life will fall apart; In AC, you must collect more stuff. Even though if you never collected stuff at all, nothing would happen!



So...the director of the Sims is wrong. Do I need God to approve of Animal Crossing? :lol
 

xsarien

daedsiluap
Jagernaut said:
Don't let the junior member tag fool you, i've been on GA for over 4 years. I just don't post that much.

Or pay attention, apparently. Console fanboys of all stripes fly off the handle when they're favorite game, or their "teams" big game of the season gets a lower-than-expected/deserved mark.

ESPECIALLY around here.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Speevy said:
Our argument may be over, but I really don't think any source is credible enough for you. I think that saves you and olimario a bit of time, since the game also won 3 AIAS awards for game design, RPG of the year, and innovation.

I don't think you get it. Popularity/Awards/Review Scores are never indicative of actual game quality. EVER. They're just indicative of the general consensus about a game - and general consensus != quality. If that's the case, then the last 2 Star Wars movies must have been great because they did so well! Or that last Britney Spears album must be one of the greatest all time albums ever made!

Speevy said:
So...the director of the Sims is wrong. Do I need God to approve of Animal Crossing? :lol

It's not about approving of Animal Crossing. It's about AC being like Sims. It's factually not, unless you can show me an example where you can die or where you must strategically manage your tasks/funds so that your life doesn't fall apart. Show me. If you can show me where, I'll concede.

Except you can't show me, since AC has no such strategy or punishment for failing to do well.
 

border

Member
DarthWufei said:
:lol Give her a 5 page essay on why Kingdom Hearts is the greatest use of popular franchises ever, and I think she'll get those out to you.
No need to write anything substantial. Hell, no need for complete sentences.

Kingdom Hearts = 88% Gamerankings score + more than 2 million copies sold = fucking awesome game and you are wrong if you don't like it!
Speevy said:
the director of the Sims is wrong
Will Wright is director/lead designer for The Sims. The guy you are quoting is only in charge of porting Wright's game to consoles. Not to mention that he isn't exactly going to insult Animal Crossing and risk upsetting the audience for his game (since there's a lot of crossover between the two).
 

Speevy

Banned
Amir0x said:
I don't think you get it. Popularity/Awards/Review Scores are never indicative of actual game quality. EVER. They're just indicative of the general consensus about a game - and general consensus != quality. If that's the case, then the last 2 Star Wars movies must have been great because they did so well! Or that last Britney Spears album must be one of the greatest all time albums ever made!



.[/i]



I look at it a different way.

The last two Star Wars movies did very well at the box office, but check out their reviews. Pretty bad/mediocre.

Enter the Matrix sold very well. It's a horrible, horrible game.

Is the "casual fodder" argument really one you want to use for a game as niche as AC?
 

Amir0x

Banned
Speevy said:
Is the "casual fodder" argument really one you want to use for a game as niche as AC?

But you just said in a earlier post in this thread that AC sold 1 million copies! That's pretty good in the gaming world!
 

Mejilan

Running off of Custom Firmware
You know. If you look up 'game' at dictionary.com, you get a SLEW of definitions. I didn't bother to browse them all, but allow me to copy and paste the very first definition that shows up:

1. An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime: party games; word games.

In the broadest sense of the word, I see no requirements listed, such as virtual mortality or even strategy. I own Animal Crossing, and played it daily for a period of a month. I haven't touched it since. It's not my favorite game. It's not the best game this gen. It's not the best game for the Cube. But I did find that it provided entertainment and amusement for a month.

I'm not going to argue with you that it somehow does have deep (or any) strategy, or even a solid system of punishments and rewards. But I WILL argue with you that it is a game. And even a decent one, imho. Quality is totally subjective, of course. But one thing that all of the awards and sales and communities does show is that I'm not alone in thinking that it was an amusing and entertaining activity.
 
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