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[HiredN00bs]

We can do so much better than this.

We can abolish the death penalty and reform our justice system towards restoration rather than retribution.

We can make gun ownership require more checks like psychological examination and safety training. We can push back against a culture that glorifies deadly weapons.

We can make health care more available and affordable to everyone, especially in regards to mental well-being.

Dylan Roof shouldn't be put to death because he should never should have murdered those people because he should have never had the gun or even gone to do such a thing because he would have been treated by a more caring and socially-minded society. We failed those people in the church. Slaughtering this human being who is a product of our failure is a barbaric, simple, backwards way of thinking. Suing all the parts of the entire system that enabled this would be a better way to draw awareness to the root problems that caused this tragedy.

Killing Dylan Roof accomplishes nothing beneficial to society. Even if it could be demonstrated to bring a sense of satisfaction or relief to the bereaved, it still would not be morally justifiable. As for why random people would relish in such an act, no virtuous explanation comes to mind.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Like i said there is an arguement against the death pently. But a dude on camera executing 9 people that prayed with him just because they were a different race is not the hill i would die one.

I mean, he's obviously a monster.

But if you're against the death penalty, you can't really pick and choose some places to not be against it. You're just against it in all cases, even if the person is really horrible.

I'm not going to shed any tears for Dylan Roof, because he's a horrific person who massacred a group of black people for no reason other than the color of their skin. But I also firmly believe that the death penalty is barbaric even in this situation.

 

[Chumly]

I talked with my wife about this. Honestly who fucking cares if he gets the death penalty or not. It clearly wasn't a "deterant" from committing the crime. It's certainly not going to prevent future mass shootings. Frankly there's no difference letting him rot in prison verses spending millions of dollars to keep him on death row for 20 years

 

[MegaManTrigger]

This thread is already providing good examples of why the court system needs to remain a dispassionate arbiter of justice. If you oppose capital punishment for sound reasons, you need to oppose it even when your gut-level reaction to Dylan Roof's horrific crimes wants you to act otherwise.

This will never happen unless you have an automatic/fully logical justice system (likely not possible ever). You simply cannot trust people to be objective let alone dispassionate when it comes to judging crimes.

We can do so much better than this.

We can abolish the death penalty and reform our justice system towards restoration rather than retribution.

We can make gun ownership require more checks like psychological examination and safety training. We can push back against a culture thay glorifies deadly weapons.

We can make health care more available and affordable to everyone, especially in regards to mental well-being.

Dylan roof shouldn't be put to death, he should never have murdered those people because he should have never bought the gun or even gone to do such a thing because he would have been treated by a more caring an socially-minded society. We failed those people in the church. Slaughtering this human being who is a product of our failure is a barbaric, simple, backwards way of thinking. Suing all the parts of the entire system that enabled this would be a better way to draw awareness to the root problems that caused this tragedy.

Killing Dylan Roof accomplishes nothing beneficial to society. Even if it could be demonstrated to bring a sense of satisfaction or relief to the bereaved, it still would not be morally justifiable. As for why random people on the internet would relish in such an act, no virtuous explanation comes to mind.

Truth is there are some people that cannot be restored/rehabilitated. Yes, people commit crimes and can rise above it, but there are also monsters who commit such heinous acts and have no remorse that it's impossible to rehabilitate them for life in society again. We still have to deal with these people, whether it involves the death penalty or life imprisonment.

 

[daffy]

I agree that the death penalty shouldn't be a thing and oppose it. At the same time,

 

[The Beard]

And the funny part is they pretend they're the civilized ones.

I mean at least pro death penalty people are honest about it.

That said I don't agree with the DP for the simple reason that if it's wrong you can't take it back. In cases like this tho? Go ahead.

It's like people are regurgitating anti capital punishment sentiments while putting zero thought into it.

"This is wrong because my political party tells me it's wrong. Let's make him sit in a windowless cell for 23 hours/day 365 days/year with no outside contact for the rest of his life instead."

 

[collige]

Someone who murders one person can get life in imprisonment. Someone who murders 9 gets the same? What about someone who murders 20 people? 100?

Do all these weigh the same? Is it just to treat them the same?

Well, technically mass murderers generally get consecutive life sentences (which is not something I agree with either but that's neither here nor there), but the answer is yes.

 

[Slayven]

I mean, he's obviously a monster.

But if you're against the death penalty, you can't really pick and choose some places to not be against it. You're just against it in all cases, even if the person is really horrible.

I'm not going to shed any tears for Dylan Roof, because he's a horrific person who massacred a group of black people for no reason other than the color of their skin. But I also firmly believe that the death penalty is barbaric even in this situation.

Only a sith deals in absolutes

 

[Buckle]

The death sentence is barbaric and primitive.

Its not justice, the criminal is already caught and contained, its just revenge at this point. We need to move past this shit and stand for something better.

 

[Dabanton]

Would be better if he sits in a solitary cell and thinks of what he did for the rest of his pitiful days

 

[Carl2291]

Even if you're against the death penalty, it's hard to feel sorry for him.

 

[Melkezadek]

Well, technically mass murderers generally get consecutive life sentences (which is not something I agree with either but that's neither here nor there), but the answer is yes.

Well I simply don't agree.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Only a sith deals in absolutes

I think that it's okay to be against killing in all situations. That's a call that I'm willing to make.

 

[bobbychalkers]

 

[Kai Dracon]

Interestingly, I read recently that the church Roof attacked doesn't support the death penalty, its new pastor doesn't, and a majority of black citizens of Charleston don't support it. Many of the victims family members have stated in public they decline to engage in the desire for revenge.

I have always found it interesting that people directly affected by murders often come to feel that further killing won't make things better, while those on the sidelines call for as much direct revenge, torture, and death as punishment as they can.

A common rhetorical tactic in favor of the death penalty is to say that opponents are insulting and belittling the families of the slain and denying them "justice and closure". Except it is often the families who don't think executions provide justice or closure.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

+1 for the 'should be in a cell for the next 60 years' crowd.

 

[entremet]

He won't be missed.

I'm anti DP, but I'm not shedding a tear for this dude.

He clearly massacred 9 innocents.

 

[BobTheFork]

Sure enough could. Could live long enough to change his ways. End up transracial. Imagine that..

Change his ways? He wouldn't get access to gun or innocent people so he's ways would have changed automatically. He was never going to get out anyways.

I don't advocate for or against the Death Penalty, I just accept the decisions.

I'm ok with the existence of the DP for cases like this. He committing a crime so in-human that he gave or his right to life.


This piece of shit is going to get a roof, bed, meals AND appeals; That last part is key.
He was put on a fair trail and will be given legal opportunity to reverse this. He will be treated like a human being (yes, a criminal) and will even be sectioned off and have extra protection to keep him from getting killed.

This fucker will be given far more than he ever gave his victims. Anyone arguing this makes society just as bad as him can fuck off IMO.

 

[Mister Wolf]

Only fair he should lose his life like his victims.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Even if you're against the death penalty, it's hard to feel sorry for him.

But that's not why people oppose the death penalty - well why most people don't support it.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Interestingly, I read recently that the church Roof attacked doesn't support the death penalty, its new pastor doesn't, and a majority of black citizens of Charleston don't support it. Many of the victims family members have stated in public they decline to engage in the desire for revenge.

I have always found it interesting that people directly affected by murders often come to feel that further killing won't make things better, while those on the sidelines call for as much direct revenge, torture, and death as punishment as they can.

To an extent, Black people have to say these things or we get treated even worse

 

[Two Words]

It's a shame that exile isn't a valid option anymore. Back when kingdoms were separated and there was a lot of no-man's land, it was convenient to just tell people to GTFO and they had to just live the rest of their lives outside of society.

 

[collige]

Well I simply don't agree.

What do you propose instead? Regardless of whether you're in favor of the death penalty, you can't apply the max punishment for a crime multiple times.

 

[minor effort]

This will never happen unless you have an automatic/fully logical justice system (likely not possible ever). You simply cannot trust people to be objective let alone dispassionate when it comes to judging crimes.

Well, of course. It's an aspiration. It's the standard to aim for. Naturally, the justice system is comprised of humans and humans have emotional reactions, but it's still the standard to pursue.

 

[The Beard]

It's a shame that exile isn't a valid option anymore. Back when kingdoms were separated and there was a lot of no-man's land, it was convenient to just tell people to GTFO and they had to just live the rest of their lives outside of society.

Living off the land, being one with nature, sounds kind of nice. Where do I sign up?

 

[Buzzman]

To be honest, both options in this case are inhumane and terrible. Spending millions on killing someone while others could desperately use that money.
Nobody gains anything from torturing or killing him. It's just more pointless violence and suffering.

 

[entremet]

It's a shame that exile isn't a valid option anymore. Back when kingdoms were separated and there was a lot of no-man's land, it was convenient to just tell people to GTFO and they had to just live the rest of their lives outside of society.

LOL. What. He would be free. Unless you mean he starves to death in the wilderness.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

To be honest, both options in this case are inhumane and terrible. Spending millions on killing someone while others desperately could use that money.
Nobody gains anything from torturing or killing him. It's just more pointless violence and suffering.

So shoul he have been released and put on probation for premeditated murder of 9 people?

Some of you take this shit too far

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

Id rather not pay for this fuckin waste of skin to hang out and eat and read and see the sun until he's 80 and dies in prison anyways.

Bye, Bitch.

 

[phanphare]

So he gets the easy way out? Man, he would suffer more in jail for life. I don't agree with this.

yep

 

[Slayven]

To an extent, Black people have to say these things or we get treated even worse

Yep we must be benevolent in our victimization. You remember how they almost whitewashed this into an attack on religion. Dude didn't come out as being racist as all fucks no telling how they would have spun this

 

[entremet]

To be honest, both options in this case are inhumane and terrible. Spending millions on killing someone while others could desperately use that money.
Nobody gains anything from torturing or killing him. It's just more pointless violence and suffering.

Life in prison is torture?

 

[Karsticles]

So he gets the easy way out? Man, he would suffer more in jail for life. I don't agree with this.

What do people gained by him being in prison for life?

 

[RevolverRoden]

I feel like the people in this thread saying "I'm against the death penalty but for this case..." aren't actually against the death penalty. They just think they have to be because it's the "better" or "liberal" position to take.
If DP is barbaric, I don't see how life imprisonment isn't either. They're both punishments that are meant to eliminate the person from society. Also if you're saying you want him to "suffer" then you're not really helping your case.
And who the hell cares "what he wants"

 

[Kacho]

Works for me. Good riddance.

 

[F0rneus]

If I were to be a psychopathic piece of shit like Dylann Roof, I'd want life in prison. It's better than not existing. So I'm very OK with this. Soon his hatred and evil, will be out for good.

 

[Jacob]

I oppose the death penalty because of the possibility (and all too common actuality) of innocent people being executed, and I do not believe you can make an exception to that principle just because "we're really, really sure about this guy" because there have been too many cases where courts and juries were "really, really sure" about someone who later turned out to be innocent. While I think everyone here agrees that Roof is guilty, that's not a foolproof legal test. That said, I'm somewhat sympathetic to the argument that some crimes are so severe that they deserve death, and Roof's fall into that category. I just don't think there's a way for the state to kill him that doesn't continue to set a precedent that can and will be used against innocents in the future. (I don't think he should be lynched or let into general population to be tortured or die either for the same reason, and also because my stance on torture is more clear-cut than my stance on capital punishment.)

 

[Gouty]

And so he becomes a martyr.

I honestly don't think that applies. He has no identifiable cause to any sane person. He's just a murderer. Racist nutbags would have proped him up regardless of the sentencing.

 

[Malyse]

How about you make your moral argument about the death penalty when the case isn't so clear cut? Cause arguing that he *shouldn't* be put to death because "it's what he wants" is the most asinine idiotic response I can conceive in response to the deaths of nine innocents.

 

[commedieu]

Even if you're against the death penalty, it's hard to feel sorry for him.

Those are two different trains of thought though. One has nothing to do with the other.

 

[Kraftwerk]

When I was reading the various reports about this recently and the documentation, there was one line that got to me;

"He reportedly told investigators he almost did not go through with his mission because members of the church study group had been so nice to him"

ugh.

 

[Buzzman]

So shoul he have been released and put on probation for premeditated murder of 9 people?

Some of you take this shit too far

In a perfect world he would be locked up for presumably the rest of his life and be treated decently like every single prisoner should, but then this is the U.S we're talking about.

Life in prison is torture?

I consider solitary confinement torture yes.

 

[F34R]

Wish they could just do it and get it over with. This waiting year after year is ridiculous. Put him to death, done.

 

[Melkezadek]

What do you propose instead? Regardless of whether you're in favor of the death penalty, you can't apply the max punishment for a crime multiple times.

I don't propose anything. I don't believe that we can weigh the murder of a person, with the murder of many. Especially someone who intends to murder again. If he could have, he would have killed every single person in there. What is fair about him staying in prison for the rest of his life? Why is it fair that he would have the same punishment as someone who gets life for the murder of a person?

 

[Mesousa]

You cant be against the death penalty AND for this.

God damn just pick a side. Nothing wrong with putting people to death when we know they did it.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Like i said there is an arguement against the death pently. But a dude on camera executing 9 people that prayed with him just because they were a different race is not the hill i would die one.

Don't worry..folks out here got your back.


And I wasn't gonna acknowledge it because LOL, but yeah..alt-left..just stop..

 

[MegaManTrigger]

Well, of course. It's an aspiration. It's the standard to aim for. Naturally, the justice system is comprised of humans and humans have emotional reactions, but it's still the standard to pursue.

Aspiration only works if you can actually reach the level that you aspire to. In that regard, how can complete impartiality be a reachable standard when people in the justice system are shown to have emotional responses, biases, differing ideas on what constitutes punishment/rehabilitation, differing experiences whether that relates to race/socioeconomic status/past upbringing/etc? So long as we have these problems running rampant in the system, it's pointless to aspire to being impartial when human beings are the opposite of impartial. At least until we actually shift towards a more logical justice system.

 

[entremet]

In a perfect world he would be locked up for presumably the rest of his life and be treated decently like every single prisoner should, but then this is the U.S we're talking about.



I consider solitary confinement torture yes.

I do too, but that's a false choice. Was he gonna get solitary?

 

[Xe4]

He's a shitty fucking person, a psychopath, and a monstrous piece of crap racist shitheel. But we as a society have no right to kill someone, especially considering his last moments will likely be in toturous agony. It's disgusting and unconstitutional.

But seeing as it's SC, it's not an entirely surprising decision.

I do too, but that's a false choice. Was he gonna get solitary?

Very likely, yes. The severity of his crimes aside, he wouldn't last very long in prison.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

In a perfect world he would be locked up for presumably the rest of his life and be treated decently like every single prisoner should, but then this is the U.S we're talking about.


I consider solitary confinement torture yes.

In a perfect world he wouldn't have killed these people in the first place.