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[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

Yesterday, EA announced it would be shutting down Cliffhanger Games and canceling the studio's project, Black Panther. But both EA and Marvel are adamant that this changes nothing for the partnership between the two companies, which will still be developing at least three games together, beginning with Iron Man.

Back in 2023, Marvel and EA signed a deal for three games, one of which was the in-progress Iron Man game being developed at Motive Studio, with a second being Cliffhanger's Black Panther. The third game has yet to be revealed. The cancelation of Black Panther prompted questions as to the status of this collaboration, but both EA and Marvel have since provided statements to IGN asserting that the three-game deal is still in place, with Motive Studio taking the lead.

"Our partnership with Marvel remains strong and our multi-title, long-term collaboration continues," reads a statement sent to IGN by EA attributed to EA Entertainment president Laura Miele. A Marvel spokesperson also sent the following statement:

"The multi-title, long-term relationship between Marvel Games and EA, a creative collaboration focused on original storytelling with various, beloved Marvel characters, remains strong. Development of our console and PC titles, beginning with Marvel's Iron Man, is led by Motive Studios."

When asked if this meant there were still at least three games total in the works, the Marvel spokesperson confirmed this was the case.

This collaboration is continuing in spite of EA president Andrew Wilson's expressed desire for the company to move "away from development of future licensed IP that we do not believe will be successful in our changing industry," suggesting that the publisher still believes Marvel IP games can be successful. A number of Marvel games remain in development industry-wide, including Skydance's Marvel 1943: Rise of Hydra, Insomniac's Wolverine, and Arkane Lyon's Blade.

EA Still Making At Least 3 Marvel Games, Even After Black Panther Cancellation - IGN

Yesterday, EA announced it would be shutting down Cliffhanger Games and canceling the studio's project, Black Panther. But both EA and Marvel are adamant that this changes nothing for the partnership between the two companies, which will still be developing at least three games together...

www.ign.com

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Maybe Iron Man is popular enough to sell well, but you'd think both IM and BP franchises would had games released years ago. Not in the future.

 

[DonkeyPunchJr]

I'm looking forward to hearing about their cancellation.

 

[MiguelItUp]

Maybe Iron Man is popular enough to sell well, but you'd think both IM and BP franchises would had games released years ago. Not in the future.

Yeaaaaah, I fear a lot that they're working on is taking too long and is too late. All depends on the finished product of course. I feel like both would've been better around the peak hype of the Avenger / BP films.

 

[March Climber]

Maybe Iron Man is popular enough to sell well, but you'd think both IM and BP franchises would had games released years ago. Not in the future.

Yeaaaaah, I fear a lot that they're working on is taking too long and is too late. All depends on the finished product of course. I feel like both would've been better around the peak hype of the Avenger / BP films.

Definitely late. Like a decade late.

People on GAF need to separate the games from the movies. Everyone else does. With Marvel video games there is no 'too late' or 'too soon'.

 

[Punished Miku]

Maybe Iron Man is popular enough to sell well, but you'd think both IM and BP franchises would had games released years ago. Not in the future.

Definitely late. Like a decade late.

 

[kruis]

This collaboration is continuing in spite of EA president Andrew Wilson's expressed desire for the company to move "away from development of future licensed IP that we do not believe will be successful in our changing industry," suggesting that the publisher still believes Marvel IP games can be successful. A number of Marvel games remain in development industry-wide, including Skydance's Marvel 1943: Rise of Hydra, Insomniac's Wolverine, and Arkane Lyon's Blade

Completely forgot about the Blade game. Annoucement was in Dec 2023, we've not heard from that game since.

 

[Pasta la Vista]

Completely forgot about the Blade game. Annoucement was in Dec 2023, we've not heard from that game since.

Really hope it's an immersive sim type of game. Might be Arkane's chance to make a good vampire game this time.

 

[Punished Miku]

People on GAF need to separate the games from the movies. Everyone else does. With Marvel video games there is no 'too late' or 'too soon'.

I guess. I just haven't seen much appetite for these games outside of Insomniac. I think that if the games aren't selling well on their own, then they could potentially ride the hype wave from the IP itself they're licensing. When I say it's too late, I'm talking about riding a hype wave, because that no longer exists at all, in any way.

 

[March Climber]

I guess. I just haven't seen much appetite for these games outside of Insomniac. I think that if the games aren't selling well on their own, then they could potentially ride the hype wave from the IP itself they're licensing. When I say it's too late, I'm talking about riding a hype wave, because that no longer exists at all, in any way.

The hype wave is what I'm referencing. Marvel games (including X-men games) have sold well outside of their movie timelines getting better or worse. Same with Star Wars, which had multiple games that sold well when they were at their lowest or even absent.

The games have always been on a separate train track. That's just how it is, and I think MCU Marvel themselves realized this over time which is why they stopped interfering (like blocking X-men from MvC3 years ago).

 

[Punished Miku]

The hype wave is what I'm referencing. Marvel games (including X-men games) have sold well outside of their movie timelines getting better or worse. Same with Star Wars, which had multiple games that sold well when they were at their lowest or even absent.

The games have always been on a separate train track. That's just how it is, and I think MCU Marvel themselves realized this over time which is why they stopped interfering (like blocking X-men from MvC3 years ago).

I think the only reason to license anything is because they aren't completely independent. You're paying a ton extra to borrow the IP for your game. I get your point though that the movies and games don't always automatically have the exact same outcome.

 

[MiguelItUp]

People on GAF need to separate the games from the movies. Everyone else does. With Marvel video games there is no 'too late' or 'too soon'.

It's less about the movies themselves, and more about the peak in popularity at that time. I don't think it's radical to make mention of that.

I suppose not, but it all boils down to if the game is good. On paper it seems questionable to me, but we also haven't seen gameplay.

 

[Kacho]

So they cancelled Black Panther and have an unannounced third game in development?

Wtf happened with Black Panther for this to happen?

 

[March Climber]

I think the only reason to license anything is because they aren't completely independent. You're paying a ton extra to borrow the IP for your game.

And that's on EA, who we all know to be fickle and cancel a game/kill a dev just as fast as WB.

However, people here are mistaking EA being fickle for 'it's too late for new Marvel games' as if those games have ever needed to rely on the movies succeeding.

 

[Icymanipulator]

Iron Man is ripe for a good 3rd person action game. Basically any mechanic you could think of Iron Man could do it.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Iron Man is ripe for a good 3rd person action game. Basically any mechanic you could think of Iron Man could do it.

I think you have to be REALLY careful with Iron Man in the same way you have to be careful with Superman.

I think the best approach would be a somewhat Ratchet and Clank like approach, where you can simply toggle between weapon types, but the flight controls complicate things, because you need to be able to fly, hover, and shoot really at the same time. You need to be able to melee mid-air as well.

If you look at Ratchet and Clank, Ratchet can jump and shoot in mid air, but he can't fly. once you employ flight control you need to be able to control altitude, turning left and right, while also being able to bank left and right, manipulate velocity as you want to accelerate or decelerate. You also likely need to create gameplay for vertical and horizontal flying, where you're able to shoot regardless of orientation with likely the same control scheme.

In Hogwarts Legacy for example you're really limited once you're on your broom, you can't engage in combat while on your broom.

I think making an iron man game is one of the most challenging things you can do in gaming and that explains why it doesn't happen often and why they made it in VR a few years ago.

 

[Mr Hyde]

Motive should be doing more Dead Space, not fucking Iron Man and cape shit. It's so fucking frustrating that great games like Dead Space bombs and its continuation gets shafted for garbage like Iron Man. People have no taste.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Anthem probably is the closest thing we've seen to Iron Man like gameplay, but it also lacks a target lock system.

If I was making an iron man game, I'd probably start from there gameplay wise though.

 

[Idleyes]

Yes, Anthem with all the GAAS shit ripped out.

 

[ProtoByte]

I just don't have confidence that most 3rd party publishers are capable of doing this, let alone EA. I can easily see this get cancelled. Not even sure I want Motive to have their mark on IM for the next 10-15 years. No fucking clue why Marvel was so stupid to give them anything after seeing the decade long mess they've made of Star Wars.

If I was making an iron man game, I'd probably start from there gameplay wise though.

Fuck Anthem. Iron Man is a human fighter jet. Anthem is a turd person shooter with bad level design and combat that just happens to have limited flight mechanics.

 

[Killer8]

I suspect that Marvel noticed some potential brand cannibalization. They already have Black Panther appearing in the Marvel 1943: Rise of Hydra game, and I have no doubts that game looked far better than whatever Cliffhanger Games was cooking up - who also by many accounts were being staffed by nutjobs (and I doubt EA wanted another Veilguard on their hands). Probably better to pull the plug on the whole thing early and refocus on a different superhero that compliments other games being released.

Make a Daredevil game instead.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Fuck Anthem. Iron Man is a human fighter jet. Anthem is a turd person shooter with bad level design and combat that just happens to have limited flight mechanics.

How do you read, "I'd start from there" and get copy its level design...

I suspect that Marvel noticed some potential brand cannibalization. They already have Black Panther appearing in the Marvel 1943: Rise of Hydra game, and I have no doubts that game looked far better than whatever Cliffhanger Games was cooking up - who also by many accounts were being staffed by nutjobs (and I doubt EA wanted another Veilguard on their hands). Probably better to pull the plug on the whole thing early and refocus on a different superhero that compliments other games being released.

Make a Daredevil game instead.

That's not really how these game licenses work.

You don't think Marvel was fully aware that they licensed Black Panther to both EA and Plaion/Skydance? Of course they know and part of the licensing deal was a lack of exclusive use of the Black Panther mantle.

It was EA who would have seen the progress of this game, the continued cost, and the marketing cost associated with it and decided to pay Marvel the kill-fee and get out of it. If similar to the X-Men deal, it would be a 9 million dollar termination fee.

The studio was only 2 years old. This game was at least 3 years away.

While Marvel and EA say their relationship is strong in their jointly worded statements, EA is looking to reduce their OpEx and these licensed games are the first to go. They got rid of the FIFA license too but kept the game and sublicenses. They also got rid of the WRC license and may or may not end up shutting down Codemasters as a result or maybe they'll get another shot at making a DIRT game. At the end of the day I won't be surprised if EA only does NBA, Madden, NCAA, and Star Wars Battlefront moving forward.

 

[ProtoByte]

How do you read, "I'd start from there" and get copy its level design...

I'm not saying you said to copy its level design, I'm saying that Anthem should be totally ignored. In fact, we should've started gaslighting ourselves into pretending Anthem didn't exist. It certainly didn't exist as far as the sales charts were concerned.

 

[simpatico]

Only ten years too late

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm not saying you said to copy its level design, I'm saying that Anthem should be totally ignored. In fact, we should've started gaslighting ourselves into pretending Anthem didn't exist. It certainly didn't exist as far as the sales charts were concerned.

Name a game with 3rd person/flight combat mechanics that you'd need for an Iron Man game that are done to a higher level. Just because a game is bad doesn't mean you can't learn anything from it. It's definitely the start blocks for what you'd want in a 3rd person Iron Man game. How you could not see that is pretty stunning.

 

[March Climber]

...Maybe I should finally play Anthem.

 

[Zacfoldor]

Imagine how bad this game tested that they canceled it but kept the others.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

...Maybe I should finally play Anthem.

I'm not suggesting that Antem is worth playing, but if you look at the basic fundamentals and physics, they clearly have much of the framework needed for a successful Iron Man game.

If you combined Anthem's flight/combat mechanics with a lot of Ratchet and Clank's weapon selection and diversity (obviously not the gags) you'd have a compelling combat system.

Make the game a combination of combat, rescue, and repair. Throw in some metroid style mystery and puzzle so you have to be a problem solver and use a jarvis like analysis system for a modern detective system... yeah, you could make a decent game.

 

[ProtoByte]

Name a game with 3rd person/flight combat mechanics that you'd need for an Iron Man game that are done to a higher level. Just because a game is bad doesn't mean you can't learn anything from it. It's definitely the start blocks for what you'd want in a 3rd person Iron Man game. How you could not see that is pretty stunning.

I get hard-triggered by Anthem.

But seriously, there are other Iron Man games that may give a better indication of what to do. Maybe Just Cause 2, maybe even looking at Prototype in the way of scale is a good idea. Probably Deus Ex as well in terms of specing different suits.

But this, on top of actually writing a story that uses Tony Stark and his cast correctly, is a tall task. I'm really not confident this project will be maximized by Motive. Much less by taking any inspiration from Anthem. And R&C is very tired gameplay wise IMO.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I get hard-triggered by Anthem.

But seriously, there are other Iron Man games that may give a better indication of what to do. Maybe Just Cause 2, maybe even looking at Prototype in the way of scale is a good idea. Probably Deus Ex as well in terms of specing different suits.

But this, on top of actually writing a story that uses Tony Stark and his cast correctly, is a tall task. I'm really not confident this project will be maximized by Motive. Much less by taking any inspiration from Anthem. And R&C is very tired gameplay wise IMO.

Again, I don't think you realize the hardest thing to get right with Iron Man is the flight combat.

 

[March Climber]

I'm not suggesting that Antem is worth playing, but if you look at the basic fundamentals and physics, they clearly have much of the framework needed for a successful Iron Man game.

If you combined Anthem's flight/combat mechanics with a lot of Ratchet and Clank's weapon selection and diversity (obviously not the gags) you'd have a compelling combat system.

Make the game a combination of combat, rescue, and repair. Throw in some metroid style mystery and puzzle so you have to be a problem solver and use a jarvis like analysis system for a modern detective system... yeah, you could make a decent game.

I bought the game years ago when it went on a deep sale for 4.99. I have a huge backlog but all of this talk about it makes me think of it again. I would go into the experience knowing that I'm playing a good concept with failed execution.

 

[Billbofet]

Oh good, more capeshit. I was starting to get worried they would make something original and non-IP driven there for a minute. Whew.

 

[March Climber]

Imagine how bad this game tested that they canceled it but kept the others.

The problem with a BP game is that it has to be an 'everything' game. The character isn't just known for one or two things (like Wolverine for example), so the dev studio has to be good at stealth, melee combat, ranged combat, platforming, swimming mechanics, flight mechanics, driving mechanics, and potential dialogue mechanics. If it was open world (which knowing EA there's a high percent chance) then that's a multiplier.

It's a big ask, which leads to a big budget.

 

[Plague Doctor]

I want to say it again.

This is EA, the pub that saw the development of Veilguard and said, "Nah, this is good to ship."

BP had to be shaping up to be utter dog shit.... omg.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Oh good, more capeshit. I was starting to get worried they would make something original and non-IP driven there for a minute. Whew.

This is such a lazy argument. 80% of video games could boil down to "capeshit".

How is an Iron Man game fundamentally different from say Armored Core? How is Blade fundamentally different from Castlevania or Devil May Cry?

Make better arguments.

The problem with a BP game is that it has to be an 'everything' game. The character isn't just known for one or two things (like Wolverine for example), so the dev studio has to be good at stealth, melee combat, ranged combat, platforming, swimming mechanics, flight mechanics, driving mechanics, and potential dialogue mechanics. If it was open world (which knowing EA there's a high percent chance) then that's a multiplier.

It's a big ask, which leads to a big budget.

I've got a lot of concerns for Insomniac and Wolverine. Making a 16+ hour game that's almost entirely melee is a huge ask to deliver on. I think it's way easier to make a good game with more in-depth mechanics, which is why I think they're putting Jean Grey in the game, hopefully mirroring a lot of her controls on Control.

There's a reason they gave Kratos the Axe in God of War 2018 and why the game was longer but also more engaging than the originals.

Gamers complain about the MJ section in the Spider-Man games, and yeah, they weren't good, but the intention is to break up the gameplay loop. And even if you taken an L, by the time you get back to playing as Spider-Man, you're looking forward to it.

A game like Wolverine, they're going to have to try and work to bring in the sense of progression too. So how do you accomplish that? Do you nerf him early ala Symphony of the Night? And if so how? Every game I've seen nerf Wolverine has done so at its own peril. Limit how long he can use his claws? Limit his healing factor?

Personally, I would not have tackled Wolverine even if he's the most popular marvel character outside of Spider-Man. I think we haven't seen any official footage since the trailer because they're hitting the barriers involved with a character like him.

He probably needs more than just Jean Grey. You maybe put in 3 other X-men to balance the game out and make it replayable. Maybe nightcrawler and Cyclops.

 

[March Climber]

I've got a lot of concerns for Insomniac and Wolverine. Making a 16+ hour game that's almost entirely melee is a huge ask to deliver on. I think it's way easier to make a good game with more in-depth mechanics, which is why I think they're putting Jean Grey in the game, hopefully mirroring a lot of her controls on Control.

There's a reason they gave Kratos the Axe in God of War 2018 and why the game was longer but also more engaging than the originals.

Gamers complain about the MJ section in the Spider-Man games, and yeah, they weren't good, but the intention is to break up the gameplay loop. And even if you taken an L, by the time you get back to playing as Spider-Man, you're looking forward to it.

A game like Wolverine, they're going to have to try and work to bring in the sense of progression too. So how do you accomplish that? Do you nerf him early ala Symphony of the Night? And if so how? Every game I've seen nerf Wolverine has done so at its own peril. Limit how long he can use his claws? Limit his healing factor?

Personally, I would not have tackled Wolverine even if he's the most popular marvel character outside of Spider-Man. I think we haven't seen any official footage since the trailer because they're hitting the barriers involved with a character like him.

He probably needs more than just Jean Grey. You maybe put in 3 other X-men to balance the game out and make it replayable. Maybe nightcrawler and Cyclops.

I have the perfect title for your concept:

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I have the perfect title for your concept:

The reason why they started with Wolverine is because he's the most popular. And it made sense to build him first and then add his mechanics to a larger X-Men game.

But this game has to land first and I think it's going to struggle without some really good balance and clever game design.

 

[March Climber]

The reason why they started with Wolverine is because he's the most popular. And it made sense to build him first and then add his mechanics to a larger X-Men game.

But this game has to land first and I think it's going to struggle without some really good balance and clever game design.

One day I'll have my playable Cyclops gameplay I've always wanted.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

One day I'll have my playable Cyclops gameplay I've always wanted.

I think the X-Men game has way more potential than the Wolverine game. That it's taking them this long to build out Wolverine is a massive red flag.

 

[March Climber]

I think the X-Men game has way more potential than the Wolverine game. That it's taking them this long to build out Wolverine is a massive red flag.

I'm more forgiving about that because of that massive data leak plus the fact that they announced it way too early, which is something more and more publishers have been doing less of lately (to the benefit of us all).

I'm not sure how much that leak set them back though. If it doesn't show up this year at all (I'm giving them until TGAs), then that means something is really, really wrong.

 

[Calverz]

They are completely clueless at EA. If it wasn't for the fifa "surprise mechanics" and fifa games, they would have gone under years ago imo

 

[EN250]

Whenever these gamea come out, no one will care, capeshit milking went too far, people these days don't care anymore

 

[Mibu no ookami]

I'm more forgiving about that because of that massive data leak plus the fact that they announced it way too early, which is something more and more publishers have been doing less of lately (to the benefit of us all).

I'm not sure how much that leak set them back though. If it doesn't show up this year at all (I'm giving them until TGAs), then that means something is really, really wrong.

I mean it is a two part problem.

One is the voice actor strike, which means they'll potentially have difficult showing (ironically) non-gameplay.

Two, they announced the game in 2021, meaning it's been in development for at least 4 years. The leak would not have an impact on being able to show progress in this game at this point. This game is supposed to release next year, so if it has a similar timetable to say Ghost of Yotei we should see this game by this fall/winter at the latest.

We can also get into Sony's poor marketing cadence and strategy, but that's getting further off topic here.