EA v EDGE GAMES, the Aftermath. Thread of the Decline and Fall of Tim Langdell

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As reported by pocketgamer on 24th May Mobigame now has an international trademark for "EDGE" in respect of videogames.
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The Lynchian part of me half-expects Mobigame to immediately pick up the Edge litigation crusade, as if the name itself is an evil spirit. (Also: Langdell becomes a trademark fraud attorney, has no memory of the past 20 years.)
 
That latest bit of news has given me the urge to check what else has been going on.

The retreat continues.

The website www.baias.org - the spuriously-named "British Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences" which was apparently created by or for Langdell, presumably with the intention of giving himself some awards, IS NO MORE.

There's what looks to be a replacement for it at www.interactive.org.uk, it just says 'under construction' but I don't expect any construction any time soon.

Especially since it would require the permission of the Secretary of State which I bet Langdell hasn't got, and he now knows that I know that he needs it. Even the construction page is probably infringing something already (and yes, I do know exactly what).

Langdells main website at www.edgegames.com and www.edgegames.co.uk still exists, but all the underlying pages - the list of 'published' games, the list of 'current' games, the references to activities in comic books and to film/TV crossovers, THE STORE, and the About page, HAVE ALL GONE.

Sorry folks, you won't be able to buy Mythora any more, or Edge Racing or whatever if was called, or even dear old Bobby Bearing.

Shame.

I imagine that with this amount of retreat going on behind the scenes that there will be more to find - I'll grab some time tomorrow for a current status trawl on everything, and try to track down those German trademarks as well. After that I'll go and update the OP, which is long overdue (though I know you'll forgive me the delay - not my fault).

Now, this isn't the sort of thing somebody would do just because they felt like it. Either there's some quiet discussions going on somewhere to do with the civil suit or somebody is trying to get rid of the evidence prior to criminal proceedings.

Isn't web archiving and copy/paste wonderful.
 
JonathanEx said:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/16/tim-langdell-loses-in-future-edge-trial/

It's a really really long one, but uh, Future have got him well.
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Incredible to me that Langdell isn't being brought up on charges for this. How can he get away with so blatantly lying and wasting the court's time?

Also, fun fact: when I was a young pup in a VG business, I met Tim, and I have one of his Edge Games business cards. It was already confusing: "The EDGE Interactive Media, Inc (dba EDGE Games)"
 
That is a truly amazing read.
However, Langdell had produced some floppy discs which stored logo, as evidence that it pre-existed the magazine. He claimed that the logo had been published on a “single page catalogue” and a flysheet he used at trade shows, but when asked to show a physical copy said that there was, er, “scarcity of use” pre 1993. But those discs – he’d saved “catalogue” and flysheet onto 5.25″ disc in 1991. He was home free! But wow, it was about to get brilliant.

The disc was too delicate to be shipped to the UK, said Dr Tim. Despite it already having been sent across the Atlantic twice. The court ordered him to send it over. And thus Langdell sent the disc to an expert, Mr Steggles of Disklabs, who verified that the disc was indeed from 1991, and said that in his opinion it was “genuinely created at that time.” Surely Langdell was finally onto a winner? Except, well, Future’s expert, Mr Dearsley of Kroll Computers, pointed something out. The content had been created by Windows 95.
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Deathcraze said:
That is amazing. How on earth Langdell has been able to get away with this shit for so long baffles me.
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Any excuse to post this again for infamy, since RPS missed it:

20090914-dsj11p8jsgk3dxpyc53kd2j32a.jpg


It's like he wasn't even trying.
 
My smile kept growing wider and wider as I read that article. The legal beat down the judge gave him in her decision was pure, concentrated win!
 
JonathanEx said:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/16/tim-langdell-loses-in-future-edge-trial/

It's a really really long one, but uh, Future have got him well.
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You know what, I'm shocked that the presiding judge didn't decide to haul Langdell in for epic contempt of court, but maybe even she was sick of the sight of him by the end of the process and couldn't be bothered.

After reading that, I am just glad that we're nearly rid of him from the industry, what a grade A tool.
 
Phi, if I could ask a question... Is this about legal confusion? I use to think he was just grasping at any straw no matter what to save what he has, but is he just openly contradicting himself to try and hope the judge or other party gets confused? Some of this is just too strange to believe now. HE claimed that he asked for permission and was given it by Future, but then claims that he himself created the logo a few years before that.

edit: I mean look at this shit
insanity said:
The disc was too delicate to be shipped to the UK, said Dr Tim. Despite it already having been sent across the Atlantic twice. The court ordered him to send it over. And thus Langdell sent the disc to an expert, Mr Steggles of Disklabs, who verified that the disc was indeed from 1991, and said that in his opinion it was “genuinely created at that time.” Surely Langdell was finally onto a winner? Except, well, Future’s expert, Mr Dearsley of Kroll Computers, pointed something out. The content had been created by Windows 95.
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So he claims the disc is from 1991 but the info on it was put there years later, but the proof he offers is that 'see, the disc is from 1991 like I said' He got someone to be his expert and lie for him, Future points out the obvious and the 'expert; has to recant instantly. It's almost magically stupid.


Oh God, I may actually die laughing at this one:

bollocks said:
And as Future’s expert pointed out, armed with the information on how he’d proven disc 1 was a fake, it would be easy for Langdell to fake a disc 3. He claimed he was “technically incompetent to do such a thing”, which is an odd claim for one of the leading software developers of the 21st century, and the judge called bollocks.
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JonathanEx said:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/16/tim-langdell-loses-in-future-edge-trial/

It's a really really long one, but uh, Future have got him well.
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link said:
"Justice Proudman found that Langdell’s breaches of the agreement with Future were “fundamental”, which has huge implications. It in fact means that Langdell can no longer benefit from the arrangements made with Future, that allowed him to continue using the EDGE trademark in various ways, and prevented Future from using “EDGE” in association with anything other than magazines. In fact, she ruled that Langdell’s abysmal reputation was so bad that it was causing damage to Future merely by the implied association"
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The smile on my face...
 
Langdell had refused to let the court read the “without prejudice” correspondence between Langdell and Future prior to the trial. Future had expressed they’d be fine with it, but Dr L wanted it kept from the judge. Future lawyers pointed out that the discs had only been mentioned just before the proceedings had started, his claimed evidence having been described as existing in a paper form before then. Langdell then, rather stupidly, went on to claim that he had made reference to these discs on which his evidence was stored numerous times in this unseen correspondence. He was stating that Future were outright lying. Which the court saw as a waiver in his right to keep the correspondence from the court, and it became available. And of course contained no mention of any discs.
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KuGsj.gif
 
JonathanEx said:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/16/tim-langdell-loses-in-future-edge-trial/

It's a really really long one, but uh, Future have got him well.
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This is the most upsetting part:
After he made enough of a pain in the arse of himself, Future bought the rights from him completely. In 2004 Future paid EIM $250,000 and Langdell $25,000 (although as the judge points out, both payments went into Langdell’s personal bank account).
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This doucher already made almost $300K off of Future. Unbelievable.
 
JonathanEx said:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/06/16/tim-langdell-loses-in-future-edge-trial/

It's a really really long one, but uh, Future have got him well.
Click to expand...

This is wonderful stuff.

I particularly like the combination of paragraphs 76 and 92 of the judgment - judicial decision giving grounds to revoke ALL of Langdell's UK trademarks for non-use.

That should pretty well finish him off.

Oh, I found those German trademarks by the way. One of the two no longer exists, indeed the status is marked as "File Destroyed" from way back in the 1990s - which makes it strange that Langdell cited it in opposition to Mobigames' application last year (or perhaps not all that strange for Langdell).

I expect to see some activity at the UK IPO shortly as a result of this judgment.

There are some other possible civil actions outstanding, but I can't see it as likely they will be brought - so criminal proceedings are probably not that far off.

I'll spend some time over the next week trying to get everything up to date here.

BobTheFork said:
Phi, if I could ask a question... Is this about legal confusion? I use to think he was just grasping at any straw no matter what to save what he has, but is he just openly contradicting himself to try and hope the judge or other party gets confused? Some of this is just too strange to believe now. HE claimed that he asked for permission and was given it by Future, but then claims that he himself created the logo a few years before that.
Click to expand...

He has, it seems, always been a lying toerag. Having got away with it for so long I guess he's forgotten how to behave any other way.

I never expected him to be quite this stupid as well though.

oracrest said:
How do you know that he knows that you know? Just assuming he reads this thread?
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Reasonable surmise based on a couple of the sudden changes to written submissions during the US civil cases after I had pointed out errors in them.
 
phisheep said:
Reasonable surmise based on a couple of the sudden changes to written submissions during the US civil cases after I had pointed out errors in them.
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Hahaha here you were giving him free legal advice!
 
Deathcraze said:
That is amazing. How on earth Langdell has been able to get away with this shit for so long baffles me.
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Lawyers cost a lot of money, in most cases it was probably cheaper to cave in than to fight it.
 
phisheep said:
Langdells main website at www.edgegames.com and www.edgegames.co.uk still exists, but all the underlying pages - the list of 'published' games, the list of 'current' games, the references to activities in comic books and to film/TV crossovers, THE STORE, and the About page, HAVE ALL GONE.
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Also recently materialised: "Edge donates 10% of its profits to charities and institutions for the benefit of children in need, at-risk children and sick children." What a swell guy!
 
Reading that Future media logo case against Langdell, all I could think was:

TODDMARGARET_-1382.jpg


The last episode in particular.


This quote sums it all up:

At this point I begin to feel a bit sorry for Langdell. To have told so many lies, and to have weaved yourself so thickly in bullshit for so many years, it must be terrifying when it all starts to unravel. He’s clearly a very sorry man, and the exposure of his incompetence, while undeniably gratifying, actually descends quickly into the pathetic. And his continued avoidance of the truth got him into even more trouble in the hearing.
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rockpapershotgun.com said:
The good doctor seemed to take as many nonsensical approaches to defending his use of the EDGE logo as possible, also arguing that because he “copied” it on a letterhead to Future, that this was an “estoppel representation“, which even the judge can’t seem to be bothered to fathom. And then, despite having admitted to copying it, and claiming to have been given permission to use it, he brilliantly asserts that he also invented it in 1991! Future, it seemed, “consciously or unconsciously” copied it two years later when they launched the magazine. This was somewhat scuppered when Future produced the original designer of the logo, and Langdell had nothing useful to say to defend against that. This is also not particularly helped by the real “Edge” logo he was using in 1990, which in fact looks like this. Or this.
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Holdit.gif


rockpapershotgun.com said:
However, Langdell had produced some floppy discs which stored logo, as evidence that it pre-existed the magazine. He claimed that the logo had been published on a “single page catalogue” and a flysheet he used at trade shows, but when asked to show a physical copy said that there was, er, “scarcity of use” pre 1993. But those discs – he’d saved “catalogue” and flysheet onto 5.25″ disc in 1991. He was home free! But wow, it was about to get brilliant.
Click to expand...

Takethat.gif


rockpapershotgun.com said:
The disc was too delicate to be shipped to the UK, said Dr Tim. Despite it already having been sent across the Atlantic twice. The court ordered him to send it over. And thus Langdell sent the disc to an expert, Mr Steggles of Disklabs, who verified that the disc was indeed from 1991, and said that in his opinion it was “genuinely created at that time.” Surely Langdell was finally onto a winner? Except, well, Future’s expert, Mr Dearsley of Kroll Computers, pointed something out. The content had been created by Windows 95.
Click to expand...

PW-Objection01.jpg
 
dream said:
Am I to understand Langdell defended himself?
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You are. He did.

He sacked his lawyers partway through the case. Or, in more neutral terms, he ceased to be legally represented. I guess this might have something to do with professional ethics - there are rather serious consequences for lawyers who go around misleading the court - so the sacking may have been the other way around.

Certainly if I were his lawyer I would have some serious difficulty with his conceptions of disclosure and timeliness to name only two (there are plenty more).

I do wish I had been there to see it.
 
Escapist reports of the Future Publishing case that "UK judge crushes Tim Langdell" and goes on to conclude

escapist said:
And with that, it would seem that the era of Tim Langdell and Edge Games is finally and forever over.
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Not so fast, guys. We've learned here that things don't necessarily get that final that quick. It's time to put that judgment in context a bit.

The main clue is right at the top of the judgment - this was a case before the Chancery Division of the High Court. And the second clue is right at the bottom, in that the judgment makes no orders of any kind whatsoever - there's nothing about any award of damages, nothing about recission of trademarks, no injunctions, no nothing except for findings of fact.

That is more-or-less typical of what happens in the Chancery Division. It is all to do with findings of fact and interpretation of legal documents - usually wills and contracts. It was all very different before 1873 but that's the way it normally is now. Chancery doesn't do remedies much.

If Future were suing for damages for breach of contract we'd have seen a hearing before the Queen's Bench Division - and for all I know that might be underway somewhere, but it hasn't come to light yet.

So, damning though this judgment is, it has pretty well the same status as Judge Alsup's refusal of an injunction in EA vs Edge Games - in that what it essentially does is confirm that Langdell has a rotten negotiating position in whatever negotiations are going on.

We don't at present know what remedies Future Publishing are seeking (though it appears they are at least seeking to repudiate a contract with Langdell), and we can probably guess that even now Langdell is not going to be the easiest person in the world to negotiate with, nor one whose undertakings can be trusted. On the back of this judgment I'd expect Future to play hardball. If negotiations fail (still possible) and it ends up in a court case (still possible) then this judgment means it is overwhelmingly likely that Langdell will lose.

But that doesn't mean he's lost anything yet.

More later this week.
 
Very interesting stuff, cheers phisheep. The bit about the "1991 disc" being created with Windows 95 from the RPS article was brilliant.
 
I have updated the OP to reflect, as nearly as I can, the current situation, including the German trademarks and links to the key court cases.

(It might seem a bit anal to keep doing this, but it gives me a place I can click though to check for updates and things happening.)

A few more observations on the recent changes to the Edge Games website at http://www.edgegames.com/:

1) Presumably as a result of the Future Publishing case, Langdell has gone through the site changing the font for the word "EDGE" so it no longer resembles the Future Publishing logo. But (as at today) he's missed one. Bottom left of the US home page, the logo for "The Edge" SD cards is still in the old font. Tsk tsk.

2) While the US home page is still titled "EDGE(TM) GAMES", the European home page is now titled "The EDGE(R) EUROPE". I imagine he thinks he can avoid some liability for something by doing this. He's wrong.

It seems fairly typical of Langdell that, faced with a hugely adverse court judgment, first thing he does is go fiddle with his website rather than, say, face up to a bleak future. Can't say I blame him entirely for that, it is pretty bleak.
 
Now that I've browsed through the revised OP, it emerges that two more trademarks have been surrendered:

3585463 EDGEGAMERS surrendered 14 Oct 2010 (originaly scammed from John Coates and Mike Zerbe)
2727547 EDGE of EXTINCTION surrendered 14 Oct 2010 (originally scammed from Cybernet Systems)

(That's two days after this thread started, though I don't necessarily claim any credit here as there was a hell of a lot of other stuff going on at the time.)

In addition, Langdell has until 20 July to respond to USPTO on trademarking 85147499EDGE GAMES. I'll be keeping a close watch on him.

OP will be updated very shortly. EDIT: done

Any of you guys in London? I could do with finding out a bit more about BAIAS Ltd. If you can, pop along to 271 Regent Street and find out where the company is registered, what its registration number is and who the directors are. Pretty please. Don't get put off by them, you have a right to know. If they ask why, just say you have a potential dispute with the company and stonewall any other questions.
 
phisheep said:
Any of you guys in London? I could do with finding out a bit more about BAIAS Ltd. If you can, pop along to 271 Regent Street and find out where the company is registered, what its registration number is and who the directors are. Pretty please. Don't get put off by them, you have a right to know. If they ask why, just say you have a potential dispute with the company and stonewall any other questions.
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I wish. If I were, you would have convinced me to do this!
 
So um... Tim Langdell just released Bobby Bearing 2 on iTunes store.. only...

HE CALLED IT "EDGEBobby 2"

Really? Can he even legally do this? Use the name Edge again in a game on a store where there's another name simply called "Edge"?
 
Normally, I would never advocate snitching but wouldn't it be fantastic if Langdell was somehow forced to license the name Edge from Mobigames?
 
Nikashi said:
Really? Can he even legally do this? Use the name Edge again in a game on a store where there's another name simply called "Edge"?
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He lost the trademark so what he is doing is exactly what he was trying to sue people for.
 
Nikashi said:
So um... Tim Langdell just released Bobby Bearing 2 on iTunes store.. only...

HE CALLED IT "EDGEBobby 2"

Really? Can he even legally do this? Use the name Edge again in a game on a store where there's another name simply called "Edge"?
Click to expand...

Man.

As if we needed more evidence that this guy has totally lost it.
 
Nikashi said:
So um... Tim Langdell just released Bobby Bearing 2 on iTunes store.. only...

HE CALLED IT "EDGEBobby 2"

Really? Can he even legally do this? Use the name Edge again in a game on a store where there's another name simply called "Edge"?
Click to expand...
As offensive as he is though, and as blatant as he's doing this, there really isn't much against this on the store. By calling your game Edge doesn't prevent anyone else to release a game with the name "Edge" on it, or else the App store would crumble down faster than a deck of cards.
 
AlphaTwo00 said:
By calling your game Edge doesn't prevent anyone else to release a game with the name "Edge" on it, or else the App store would crumble down faster than a deck of cards.
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Well it worked for Langdell when he complained to Apple. They removed the MobiGames EDGE from the App Store on his request.
 
saunderez said:
Well it worked for Langdell when he complained to Apple. They removed the MobiGames EDGE from the App Store on his request.
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Except that Langdell's claim was just "Edge", which happened to be the same name. He couldn't, and didn't by extension go against every other app out there that had the word "Edge" in it.
 
AlphaTwo00 said:
Except that Langdell's claim was just "Edge", which happened to be the same name. He couldn't, and didn't by extension go against every other app out there that had the word "Edge" in it.
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He was going to extort MobiGames no matter what. The only difference was he wanted slightly less money if they changed the name to Edgy rather than if they'd licensed the name Edge.
 
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