Zen_Arcade
Banned
I don't like children and there have been plenty of times children have done things that could/have hurt me. Including biting. That doesn't give me the right to punch a kid in the head because he wandered away from his mother.
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East Bay jogger kills 15-pound pug with a kick
- Thread starter Dalek
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Not a pug. I'm not sure what dog it was, but it was when I spent my childhood in the Philippines. Since there are a lot of strays that just roam the streets.
FallingEdge
Member
So a kid bit you and you did nothing? Just let him do it?
SoundsOfScience
Member
Damn, are y'all's reaction to a small animal running up to you is to kick the shit out of it? Crazy.
Paracelsus
Member
If he was jogging, his legs were already kinda swinging, it probably took nothing to just let one leg go and take the poor dog down. I wonder what's gonna happen with no witnesses, but unless they find out he's schizo her version of the story doesn't quite work.
depths20XX
Member
Now we're comparing kicking a little dog away from you on your jog to beating children and women? lol ok GAF
Zen_Arcade
Banned
I pushed him off of me and told his mother to control her kid. We are related, I'm not going to punch a kid either way, but I'm especially not going to whack a kid in the head at a family get together.
Who is doing that? What is the difference between kicking a 15lb dog off that you think is attacking you and kicking a 40lb child off you who you know is doing something to harm you? Either way you're just trying to get a small threat away from you.
You shouldn't be kicking a dog any more then you should be kicking a kid.
Ray Wonder
Founder of the Wounded Tagless Children
I don't think this is a good comparison.
Unfortunately if you walk your dog off-leash, you're rolling the dice on a number of things happening that are out of your control. You're also potentially putting other people/animals at risk. I had a kitten that was killed by a couple of illegally off-leash dogs.
All sympathy for the pug having a negligent owner. No sympathy for the owner.
All sympathy for the pug having a negligent owner. No sympathy for the owner.
If you pay no attention to the argument itself, it sure looks dumb, I agree.
depths20XX
Member
If you don't know the difference between an off leash dog coming at you and booting a kid I really dunno what to tell you.
The dude didn't seem to be trying to hurt the dog anyways. He was trying to get it away.
King Gilga
Member
The owner isn't the victim, the dog is. The owner is a useless piece of shit.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
When that off leash dog is a 15lb Pug, I don't see what the huge difference in threat is. It's not like it was a 80lb Pit Bull running at him. It was a tiny dog that he was able to kill with one kick to the head. How threatening.
In fact, I'd argue that the kid could do way more damage in less time then a Pug can do.
Because he isn't dumb enough to kill a dog and then pretend nothing happened.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
No shit.
I'm not saying there aren't circumstances or situations in which a pug can be an asshole. Any dog can be an asshole, I'm sure, because their owners can be assholes. But most people tend to recognize that pugs are mostly harmless. If you're saying most people don't know that, okay. We'll agree to disagree. I'd suggest the idea of the "hostile pug" would be enough of an anomaly that most people would note that, especially in the event that they'd just kicked one in the head and it died.
Whether this guy had that same perception, whether he recognized the dog as a pug, whether the pug was a little nippy asshole - we don't know any of that. We can assume the dog didn't actually try to maneuver its goofy little mouth around his ankles because he appears to have never said as much, just that he came around a corner, it was running at him, and he kicked at it. But kicking a pug in the head seems like a weird call if you've recognized that's what it is running next to you. So again, it goes back to whether or not dude knew what it was, was scared by it, and was just trying to shoo it away (in the head), or if it scared him, he got angry at being scared by a fuckin' pug, and shoo'd it away (in the head).
Either way, lady shouldn't have hit the trail, or the elementary school, without already having the pugs leashed, and she knows it, which is why she's spinning like she is. And jogger kicked a fucking pug in the head and it died.
No they're not. It's been addressed multiple times.
Poor dog. 
I really hate when people don't leash their dogs. Even if you think your dog isn't dangerous to others, they can still run into the street or get injured by other animals (or people in this case). A leash will allow you to have some control.. like being able to yank it out of the way or preventing it from happening all together.
I really hate when people don't leash their dogs. Even if you think your dog isn't dangerous to others, they can still run into the street or get injured by other animals (or people in this case). A leash will allow you to have some control.. like being able to yank it out of the way or preventing it from happening all together.
Some people can be deathly afraid of dogs. Just because you and I have had good experiences with them doesn't mean everyone has. That doesn't make him a coward or an asshole. Imagine for a moment that your neighbor's pet spider gets loose and starts coming toward you, I'm guessing a lot of responses would be different.
Disregarding the whole "he went out of his way to kick it" story, since he'll obviously say he didn't, it isn't like he pulled out a gun and shot the dog. Kicking away something you feel is a threat to you is a reasonable response.
It's really, really sad that the dog died, but the person at fault here is clearly the woman who didn't have her dog on a leash when outside.
Disregarding the whole "he went out of his way to kick it" story, since he'll obviously say he didn't, it isn't like he pulled out a gun and shot the dog. Kicking away something you feel is a threat to you is a reasonable response.
It's really, really sad that the dog died, but the person at fault here is clearly the woman who didn't have her dog on a leash when outside.
Poor dog.
I really hate when people don't leash their dogs. Even if you think your dog isn't dangerous to others, they can still run into the street or get injured by other animals (or people in this case). A leash will allow you to have some control.. like being able to yank it out of the way or preventing it from happening all together.
That's the worst thing. All this could have been prevented if the owner had any sense in the head.
Shamrock7r
Member
The force required to kick and kill the dog would have to be so much that it was definitely deliberate with an intent to at the very least hurt the dog. A completely unreasonable response from the jogger, no matter his background. He's an asshole, if not worse.
Prinz Eugn
Member
But everyone knows that Spidey is a Red-kneed Adelaide, who only bites every other Tuesday, or mornings after a full moon.
A big unknown is not only how hard the kick was, but also if there could have been some other underlying health condition that could have given the pug a heart attack or hemorrhage even if it was a "tap".
Never not owned a dog but just reading the blurb from the OP it seems the owner is at fault.
Sure I don't think the guy tapped the dog but we don't know if he is comfortable with dogs, feels threaten by them, or was just an asshole.
Long story short: Don't put your dog at risk. You know your dog, strangers do not and you don't know the stranger. Having a leash on in public at all times could of avoided this issue.
Sure I don't think the guy tapped the dog but we don't know if he is comfortable with dogs, feels threaten by them, or was just an asshole.
Long story short: Don't put your dog at risk. You know your dog, strangers do not and you don't know the stranger. Having a leash on in public at all times could of avoided this issue.
Some people aren't comfortable around dogs and don't know how to act around them, regardless of size. If it really was running at him (and not away, like the lady said) I can totally understand why his first instinct is to kick it.
It's hard for me to condemn the guy when it all could have been avoided if the dog was leashes like he was supposed to be.
It's hard for me to condemn the guy when it all could have been avoided if the dog was leashes like he was supposed to be.
SneakyStephan
Banned
The owner's dog is not dead because she didn't put it on a leash.
My country and many others don't have a law for leashes and our dogs do not get kicked by joggers.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Actually her dog is dead because she didn't put a leash on it. That's pretty much exactly why it died.
So what? In this case there was a law, and the owner's dog would be alive if she hadn't broke it.
It all depends on the dog and the person. As an animal lover, it's easy to forget that not everyone understands dog behavior.
A story that sticks out for me happened one day when I was walking through my GF's neighborhood. A guy was in his driveway, washing his car and had two golden retrievers out. We were walking on the other side of the street. The two dogs saw me, pretty much said "Play?" and I gave them the same little nod I'd always given my dogs.
I didn't think anything of it and in a flash, both retrievers were right next to me (one bowled the other over on the way to me) and I was down on the grass. One dog had my forearm in his mouth (wrestling), while the other was barking for attention.
To me, this was absolutely normal (and understandable). Both dogs were simply playing and were being quite obvious (to me) about it because I understood the body language and mannerisms.
To my GF, it looked as though I was being viciously attacked by two large dogs. I had to reassure her that everything was fine.
Exact same scenario. Two completely different reactions.
Aren't those common with Pugs?
depths20XX
Member
Just because you can't recall an instance of a random dog being kicked in your country doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Don't be dense.
Diablo Rosso
Member
So sad, pugs are the most harmless dogs going and its death was so unneccessary. The owner's fault though, she should always put the dogs on a lead when out with them.
Such a good explanation on how people can have different perceptions on the same situation.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No it's not. The dog died because someone else kicked it. The autopsy of the dog isn't going to come back with the cause of death marked "Leashless in public." If dogs died because they didn't have leashes on, then every dog on Earth would be dead because there is a time when they don't need to wear a leash. The lack of leash wasn't causing death.
It's like if I got murdered at a 7/11. I didn't get murdered because I went to 7/11, there are plenty of 7/11's I could have gone to where I wouldn't have gotten murdered. I got murdered because someone decided to come into that 7/11 and murder me. Had he not, my 7/11 trip very well could have gone on with no problems.
Just because an action leads to a bad event doesn't mean that that action is the cause for the bad event.
pugs shorter snouts would make their faces more prone to receive life-threatening damage, yes.
balladofwindfishes
Member
The autopsy isn't going to come back with anything because one wasn't even done. The dog was instantly cremated.
Not having your dog on a leash, you take the big chance that something terrible like this happens. It's entirely the owner's fault.
That one specific action could have prevented any of this from happening in the first place.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
No it's not. It's partially the owners fault. And it partially being the owners fault doesn't mean the part that was her fault was the cause of death.
That would be like saying that if a mother loses their child in public, and later they find out that someone murdered the child, that the only one that was at fault was the mother for letting her kid wander off. Sure, it's a really shitty thing to do, and the situation could have been prevented if she payed more attention. But that doesn't mean the person who went out and murdered a child has no responsibility in the situation.
That doesn't mean that it's the reason the dog died. I could use the same logic in my analogy. Me not going to 7/11 could have prevented my murder, but that doesn't mean my murder is my fault because I decided to go to the 7/11.
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
If someone chooses to take their dog in public unleashed and their dog charges me I am going to defend myself.
I am not going to let some dog bite me or even nip me because some owner decided they felt like breaking the law.
None of us know how hard he kicked the dog. Everything here is pure speculation. He says he didnt kick hard, she says he did. There is no way of telling how hard of a kick that particular dog could have taken to cause a death.
Losing a child is accidental. Taking your dog off its leash is intentional. Your analogy isn't even remotely close to being valid here.
Dude stop. Your analogies aren't great and you are hung up on semantics. Leash laws are to protect all pets and all people. End of story.
Shamrock7r
Member
Hard enough to kill the dog, which would require some excessive force, even for a dog that size.
It's also to protect everyone around as well.
Chuck Norris
Banned
I'm sorry but if an unknown dog off a leash runs towards me, possibly barking, I may very well lash out to protect myself as well. That's why you keep your dog on a leash. Though that said, being scared of a pug is pretty low.
The dog owner's version of events doesn't sound very true at all, like she is trying to get some compensation from this. I can't imagine the jogger actively chased the dog in order to kick it
The dog owner's version of events doesn't sound very true at all, like she is trying to get some compensation from this. I can't imagine the jogger actively chased the dog in order to kick it
xDUMPWEEDx
Banned
I see your point you are trying to make, but it's pure speculation.
Yes, thank you. Will edit the original statement.
This. None of us were there but I've been jogging daily for a decade and sometimes things come out of nowhere and startle me.
I'm pretty spry and have dodged a lot of weird stuff, but little dogs are the toughest because they can weave between your legs. In a split second decision when the choice is me tripping and falling and me kicking a small animal that's right in my legs, I'd kick the animal.
I even understand why he might say "just a tap". If you're running 7 or 8mph, it only takes a little extra force to really add up to enough power to overwhelm a small dog.
CrocMother
Banned
This is the owner's fault. Keep your dog on a leash unless you are certain it's OK.
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