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Easy Allies |EZOT2| Love & Respect

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A

Auctopus

Member
ArkhamFantasy said:
I bet you most people listen to that on soundcloud.
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Yeah, I forgot to mention in my reply that I listen to the show exclusively on Overcast (iTunes Podcast app). I'm sure it's true for many listeners as Critical Role is another popular podcast. Probably a reason that YT views is probably quite misleading.

DnD just works really well in that format as I'd rather use my imagination to picture what's happening rather than just watching the guys roll dice, lol. It's a lot more immersive.
 
T

TheDarkKnight774

Member
luchadork said:
seems weird to produce content knowing that only a small subsection of the patreon funded community is going to watch. i know theres a stigma around them producing overtly popular content in general but when it doesnt even appeal to the majority of the eza community, it might be worth reconsidering the format?
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God no. That's the whole point of a patreon. TTE is a passion project and it takes them one day out of a month to generate a weekly show.

They're passionate about it. The fanbase (and most importantly patrons) are passionate about it and it's not a huge amount of a commitment. Also don't judge it just on YouTube views. I consume it from SoundCloud or now the RSS feed. Things like TTE, Fiasconauts, Gundam streams, etc makes EZA EZA. If there's people that enjoy just their game stuff then great. Not everything is for everyone
 
K

Kneefoil

Member
I mean, TTE gets about as many clicks as Huber Syndrome and Easy Update, so it's not like the show has an especially low viewer/listener base. TTE is more consistent with its numbers, though; Huber Syndrome and Easy Update clicks seem to vary a bit more.
 
W

WarRock

Member
Shout outs to the youtube comment that made me notice
the baby isn't real
at the end of Outlast 2. Nice
trick with the shadow
.
 
L

luchadork

Member
ArkhamFantasy said:
The whole point of patreon is that they can do what they want and dont have to worry about views.
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i think its very idealistic to say they dont have to worry about views. the 40k isn't enough for them all to even go full time. so they still have to consider growing the business beyond the patreon.

i mean, thats just my view on the patreon. its not me just giving them money to carte blanche do whatever they want. i'm supporting them AS they try and grow their business into something more sustainable.

so with that in mind, making content in a format that only appeals to a limited section of the patreon seems naive and at worst, inconsiderate. i'm a patreon and i love TTE/A but the format is just too long. if its not even appealing to most members of the patreon, perhaps its time to think of ways TO make it appealing to at least the other members of the paying community.
 
PepperedHam

PepperedHam

Member
Mikey Jr. said:
Right.

But at the same time, you want to attract people to your channel as well.
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Right.

But you also don't have to axe a show a subset of the community enjoys just to do that. Like everyone has said they film a month's worth of stuff in one sitting, that does not detract from them making other content. Why does TTE have to get the boot to grow their channel? As has already been said - not every piece of content is for everybody and that's okay, that's why they make other stuff.

And here comes the Patreon conversation again. I suppose we were due.
 
S

sleepwalkcapsules

Member
luchadork said:
i think its very idealistic to say they dont have to worry about views. the 40k isn't enough for them all to even go full time. so they still have to consider growing the business beyond the patreon.

i mean, thats just my view on the patreon. its not me just giving them money to carte blanche do whatever they want. i'm supporting them AS they try and grow their business into something more sustainable.

so with that in mind, making content in a format that only appeals to a limited section of the patreon seems naive and at worst, inconsiderate. i'm a patreon and i love TTE/A but the format is just too long. if its not even appealing to most members of the patreon, perhaps its time to think of ways TO make it appealing to at least the other members of the paying community.
Click to expand...

Cancelling TTE will not convert into a bunch of attractive content.

As Darkknight said, it's a monthly 4 hour, low effort commitment to them (I'd say medium effort to Ben). It has a commited fan base (who are more likely to be/become patrons) and besides, it's a fun project.

And yeah, I use patreon to help content creators be less reliant on view-chasing content. I'm paying them directly to give me what I want, not to make what's better for ad revenue.

Edit: Maybe I should've said "time consuming" instead of effort. Anyway.
 
B

Bahorel

Member
luchadork said:
i think its very idealistic to say they dont have to worry about views. the 40k isn't enough for them all to even go full time. so they still have to consider growing the business beyond the patreon.

i mean, thats just my view on the patreon. its not me just giving them money to carte blanche do whatever they want. i'm supporting them AS they try and grow their business into something more sustainable.

so with that in mind, making content in a format that only appeals to a limited section of the patreon seems naive and at worst, inconsiderate. i'm a patreon and i love TTE/A but the format is just too long. if its not even appealing to most members of the patreon, perhaps its time to think of ways TO make it appealing to at least the other members of the paying community.
Click to expand...

I'd like to point out though that some of them might not want to go full time. I'm not certain of course but I'm going to use Don as the example since he works at Funhaus. Would he want to drop them and work full time at EZA who knows. Ian does a great many projects so maybe he wants his own time to do other stuff as well.

That being said I will be excited for them to grow and get the studio in the future, but I'm just making a point that they're not a sinking ship staying where they are at the moment either
 
K

Kneefoil

Member
luchadork said:
i think its very idealistic to say they dont have to worry about views. the 40k isn't enough for them all to even go full time. so they still have to consider growing the business beyond the patreon.

i mean, thats just my view on the patreon. its not me just giving them money to carte blanche do whatever they want. i'm supporting them AS they try and grow their business into something more sustainable.

so with that in mind, making content in a format that only appeals to a limited section of the patreon seems naive and at worst, inconsiderate. i'm a patreon and i love TTE/A but the format is just too long. if its not even appealing to most members of the patreon, perhaps its time to think of ways TO make it appealing to at least the other members of the paying community.
Click to expand...
I don't think they can all ever become full-time, tbh. They would have to sell EZA, putting them into more or less the same situation as they were at GT. They'd lose their freedom, and it probably wouldn't take very long until EZA closed down.

I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that most patrons aren't interested in Tabletop when it still gets more clicks than the amount of patrons EZA has. It's impossible to tell how large a part of the people who regularly watch or listen Tabletop are patrons. It could be 10%, or it could be 90% of them, although realistically, of course, it's probably somewhere in between. Understandably, D&D is a pretty niche thing so it's not going to have a lot of mass appeal, but the Patreon supporters are probably the most hardcore EZA fans anyway, so they are more likely to watch their niche content than your random YouTube user would be. I'm also not sure how important mass appeal is to your average patron.

My own view is that Patreon support is not to help kickstart a company, but to support the content that I enjoy, and which EZA have been doing since the GameTrailers days. If they dropped most of their shows that are similar to shows they did at GT in favour of new kinds of shows, there's a danger that support will drop, because it's not what people signed up for when they became patrons.
 
L

luchadork

Member
sleepwalkcapsules said:
Cancelling TTE will not convert into a bunch of attractive content.
Click to expand...

Where did I say I want to cancel it? I said I love it. I'm just saying it might be worth looking at the length and considering ways to change the format slightly to make it easier to watch for a lot of people, patrons included.

Just look at a show like Breaking Bad. One season is about 10 hours of storytelling. Its possible to tell a good story in that time. TTE is now at what, 50 hours? And darkknight just suggested it might go on for another 30. Thats going to be 80 hours for one story. Its just an insane time commitment. And furthermore, incredibly daunting, if you were going to try and get into it at this point.

So I'm just saying, maybe consider ways to change the format. Maybe breaking it up into smaller self-contained 'seasons' would be a way? Maybe 16 hours? Surely thats enough time to tell a good story. Thats nearly 2 seasons of a tv show. Or 8 movies. I think it would also make it easier for new people to get into TTE. And also make it easier to catch up if youre fallen behind. And it might force them to move the story along quicker at times.
 
S

sleepwalkcapsules

Member
luchadork said:
Where did I say I want to cancel it? I said I love it. I'm just saying it might be worth looking at the length and considering ways to change the format slightly to make it easier to watch for a lot of people, patrons included.

Just look at a show like Breaking Bad. One season is about 10 hours of storytelling. Its possible to tell a good story in that time. TTE is now at what, 50 hours? And darkknight just suggested it might go on for another 30. Thats going to be 80 hours for one story. Its just an insane time commitment. And furthermore, incredibly daunting, if you were going to try and get into it at this point.

So I'm just saying, maybe consider ways to change the format. Maybe breaking it up into smaller self-contained 'seasons' would be a way? Maybe 16 hours? Surely thats enough time to tell a good story. Thats nearly 2 seasons of a tv show. Or 8 movies. I think it would also make it easier for new people to get into TTE. And also make it easier to catch up if youre fallen behind. And it might force them to move the story along quicker at times.
Click to expand...

That's the nature of D&D. Unedited improvised storytelling will be long.

I don't think it will go forever, it will probably be restarted sometime (soon? this year?). I just don't think there's any change to be made, the current storyline just has to run its course.
 
S

Scrotum Phillips

Member
Whoa! Don't "cancel" TTE!!! I just think they need to work to make an attempt to make the show more accessible. New people discover EZA everyday and I think it's very possible they see "TTE #57" and get intimidated or overwhelmed. I'm a lapsed viewer (just don't have the time right now!), and a 30ish episode backlog is daunting! I also frequently got spoilers reading this thread back in the day if I wasn't completely caught up on TTE the day it came out, which sucked.

My suggestions for the show:
1) Have "seasons." More opportunity for people to jump in to such a prolifically made show the better. Maybe throw in a juicy cliffhanger at the end of a season to build hype during the likely short hiatus.

2) Liberally insert recap eps into the series or have short written summaries of what happened in each episode.

3) Maybe have a more defined end story/characters arc instead of going on indefinitely. I had/have no problems with the characters when I was watching, but for some the story might not click, and we're now 57ish hours of following around the same characters.

TTE is outstanding, just not nearly as accessible as the mountain of other EZA content.
 
J

jett

D-Member
Damiani's EZA cap blending in with the recording booth reminds of Jotaro's cap blending in with his hair.

z5TJpl9.jpg
 
B

Bloodworth

Member
Scrotum Phillips said:
3. (This one is really trash...) Ben should edit down his stuff more. I know a rash of "Ben" games has come out recently, but i think it's a waste of time/energy to create 10+ minute reviews. I know he has lots to say, but i'd recommend saving the "nonessential" review stuff for Frame Traps or having other specific game discussion videos.

Let me be clear, I value and seek out Ben's opinions on things as much as anyone in the gaming profession. Just things would get out quicker and he'd hopefully have more time for other things and he'd know he'd have the opportunity to expand on a game in a different less heavily editing intensive video.
Click to expand...

I think it's always important to keep your word count somewhat in check and really evaluate if everything there needs to be said, however a slightly longer script doesn't really add a huge amount of time to the review process.
 
A

Auctopus

Member
Whilst "seasons" of TTE idea is a good idea on paper, it does restrict the players to play by certain rules. If there were 4 seasons a year, Ben would somehow have to design outcomes/story arcs and resolutions that can resolve themselves no matter which kooky path the party decide to go on.

Additionally, because I felt that my comments a page back initiated a slightly more venomous commentary than I was expecting. I always remind myself that being behind on content doesn't mean the content is worth any less. Episode 35 is just as good as it was several months ago. But I do agree that 57 hours is intimdating to new viewers (but as I said in my last comment, I don't think that's necessarily anyone's fault).
 
V

Visceir

Member
TTE is my favorite thing the allies do.

As for how to improve the views -- youtube still is a visual medium and the thumbnails is the first thing you see. Making the thumbnails more attractive and interesting via commissioned, good art of a particularly funny/exciting scene from the upcoming episode would help, I think.

Would also help to establish the characters more if they'd actually get drawn "official" designs, making them more relatable.

Could also edit down the episodes to shorter, more packed versions and release them as an alternative -- probably something that would best be outsourced.

Kneefoil said:
I mean, TTE gets about as many clicks as Huber Syndrome and Easy Update, so it's not like the show has an especially low viewer/listener base. TTE is more consistent with its numbers, though; Huber Syndrome and Easy Update clicks seem to vary a bit more.
Click to expand...

Or all those shows have a low viewership and should maybe be re-considered.
 
karasu

karasu

Member
I've just fallen in love with TTE over the last couple of weeks. I started at episode 50 or something and then just went back and watched them all because it was so fun. Now I'm almost done with Tabletop Adventures. I'd hate to see TTE disappear because of a lack of views or whatever.

Also, does anybody remember which episode of TTE it was where Huber yelled: "Who Am I?"
 
D

Deimo5

Member
Visceir said:
Would also help to establish the characters more if they'd actually get drawn "official" designs, making them more relatable.
Click to expand...

It's still tabletop roleplay in the end, I don't know if it would make much difference. I mean people seem to enjoy giving their own interpretations of the characters considering how much fan art TTE gets.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
Axe TTE?

Good god no. Unless Patrons are actually voicing displeasure for TTE, I'm not sure why view count matters.

It's a great show and it should stay as it is with some out of show improvements (titles, recaps, maybe a small description on the website detailing the cast and story) to help bring in newer/lapsed viewers.
 
P

Pappasman

Member
TTE is the best thing they do by far, and the primary reason I am a patron.

I don't really get complaints about it being too long either. If someone wants to get into it they know where to start. Episode 1. If they like it then they have a ton of content they will enjoy. Restricting the open nature of a dnd campaign seems like an awful idea.
 
B

Bahorel

Member
I don't believe in the low view count = give up. That's silly. If they enjoy making it and people enjoy watching it then great. Who cares if it's not their most popular series? I was watching it for a while but I've gotten way behind. I'd like to catch up someday.
 
H

Hasney

Member
Budi said:
I want them to take a crack at Divinity 2 and it's DM mode when it's released. Hopefully it's better than DM mode in Sword Coast Legends. The game itself will probably be much better atleast.
Click to expand...

That does sound like an excellent Easy Update.
 
D

Deimo5

Member
I finished all the main endings for Nier: Automata and didn't really enjoy it as much as I was hoping to going in. Not bad, not great? I dunno.
Still wouldn't mind a spoiler mode for their opinions on what makes it so good. They haven't really said much to this point because of how big the spoiler barriers are.
 
P

Philippo

Member
Deimo5 said:
I finished all the main endings for Nier: Automata and didn't really enjoy it as much as I was hoping to going in. Not bad, not great? I dunno.
Still wouldn't mind a spoiler mode for their opinions on what makes it so good. They haven't really said much to this point because of how big the spoiler barriers are.
Click to expand...

The only anxiety i have about a NieR:A Spoiler Mode is about the panel's full knowledge about it. Like, if they do one, i would want them to have done all the sidequests, as some are really really important, read weapons descriptions, actually followed all the little details in the plot, and checked out the connections with the previous entries. Otherwise it would be an incomplete job, since all those things mentioned are exactly one of the strong points (if not THE strong point) in Yoko Taro's games. In my opinion a lot of gratification about it's story, characters and lore comes from elaborating the whole thing after it's over, reading supplementary material and connecting the dots. Which means more work to do, and i don't know if all the 4 people who will attend will have time to do so.
I know Ben played the game throughly and even the original NieR so he'd be up for it (if he hasn't done it already for himself), Brad too since he's liking the original, but Kyle, Ian and Damiani (who i've heard didn't like the game) seems lees likely.
 
wapplew

wapplew

Member
Really enjoy both episodes of Reaction shot, take me back to the time I go to film class.
Small suggestion, they should include more recent/popular movie to the discussion maybe mini review segment or something. mix things up, make it feel less like an education podcast.
 
B

Budi

Member
wapplew said:
Really enjoy both episodes of Reaction shot, take me back to the time I go to film class.
Small suggestion, they should include more recent/popular movie to the discussion maybe mini review segment or something. mix things up, make it feel less like an education podcast.
Click to expand...

The further they stay away from blockbusters the better imo. For the show to have substance, they need to talk about movies with substance. But sure there has been excellent recent films too. But I really don't think popularity should dictate the topics in any way. Also when talking about more obscure films, it's great for recommendations. And for the viewers to broaden their horizon.

The guests have been great so far! Keep it up Ian!
 
R

RuinerPrime

Member
So what would you recommend for a game sleuth mystery?

I'd pitch the "Guidance Rune" from Bloodborne. The 30% Guidance Rune that apparently exist according to the Official guide has still yet to be found. According to the Guide, it's located in depth 5 root chalice dungeons, and the Bloodborne community is still down there looking for it.
 
T

TheDarkKnight774

Member
Bosman did start to play consistently better when he went to the post-it note technique. Hope he uses it going forward.

Also that sneaky announcement from Brad? Apparently sometime Sunday he's doing a stream where he cuts Huber's hair. Haha I'm in

I still want the Taco pizza cooking stream with ben and Brad.
 
P

Primethius

Banned
I finally got time to play Hollow Knight thanks to the Don't Skip.

Man, this game is good. This game is damn good. I started up both Hollow Knight and What Remains of Edith Finch just to get a feel for the titles and I ended up playing Hollow Knight for a good hour or so before forcibly putting the controller down so I could get other (house/work) things done. .

I'm hooked.
 
B

Bahorel

Member
wapplew said:
Really enjoy both episodes of Reaction shot, take me back to the time I go to film class.
Small suggestion, they should include more recent/popular movie to the discussion maybe mini review segment or something. mix things up, make it feel less like an education podcast.
Click to expand...

I had a similar suggestion which would be maybe a segment at the end of the show that's like reccommend a recent movie to go see and or say one they're looking forward to most?

Also I noticed that even if you have Amazon prime you have to pay extra to watch Borgman because it's a Sundance subscription movie. I'm gonna rent it from Netflix DVD since I've still had that all these years
 
W

WAR recon zero

Banned
How are you feeling the movie podcast?

I feel that it may come as snobby, though i am really loving it. Ian knows his shit. Huber is not as versed so he can't give as much.

I hope this improves
 
V

Vinc

Member
As someone who studied film, Reaction Shots is legitimately taking me back to some of my favorite memories in class. Love it so far.
 
W

WarRock

Member
Reaction Shots is pretty great, love the pacing Ian establishes. I didn't know about the term "magical realism" until he mentioned it in the first episode even though I have consumed media that could described like that since forever. Heck, some of my favorite comics are 100% magical realism and those elements are a great reason as to why I love them. The whole discussion about the filmmaking itself being magical realism is really interesting and no doubt will keep me reading and thinking for some time.

Wish someone had brought up the TV show Atlanta though. It really blurs the line between surrealism and realism with arguably fantastic elements.

Scott Pilgrim is also an interesting example because the comic has a huuuuge tonal whiplash at the end of the first issue, and after that the magical realism setting is established. Up until then it's just a slice of life comic without anything out of the place. The movie doesn't have this problem. On the other hand, to counter Huber's question, I think it counts independent from Scott Pilgrim being a comic in the first place, because most of the time it's telling a teenager story but then the world suddenly follow videogame rules, specially beat'em up ones (you can cheat, you pull weapons from thin air, people die turning into coins and sometimes special power ups or even extra lifes, everything about Gideon, etc) and nothing about that is inherent to the comic medium or the initial setup of the narrative.

Wes Anderson movies are great examples, though I'm not sure if Tennenbaums count? Should rewatch it.

Other two movies that could be interesting to discuss are Big Fish (is it magical realism but then not really? Maybe something similar to Pan's Labyrinth?) and (completely unrelated and really obscure japanese movie) Fish Story - at the end everything is explained but some stuff are just so out there (can a kid be trained to be like that? Isn't that too shonen manga? And that is just the most low hanging example).

An horror movie by the Coenn brothers sounds amazing o:

Also shout outs to the K-Pax mention haha. Can't remember when I watched it, but it was a long time ago and I still remember a lot of it.

Not sure about videogames. I haven't played most of the mentioned ones, but I have to wonder if Dark Dreams Don't Die counts. The characters are pretty out there in similar ways to a lot of moments/characters from the cited movies.

p.s.: I watched Goonies for the first time two years ago and it is fucking great, screw this nostalgia talk =P
 
T

TheDarkKnight774

Member
Bahorel said:
Has anybody tried watching Mad Max or Brazil with their audio commentaries yet?
Click to expand...

I just watched Mad Max with their commentary and its really awesome. Its been a while since i've seen the film and its one of my favorite action movies ever. Huber and Ian had great commentary, insight, etc and hit a good balance of talking and letting the movie breathe. Highly recommended.

I'm also caught up on most of the podcasts this week and here's my comments on them

Friend Code - Really great. I'm not even a huge Nintendo fan, sure i enjoy their stuff but I always grew up with it around me, not my #1 thing (I had an Amiga, or Genesis, Playstation, etc as my primary). But great crew, Damiani gets better as the host each entry, fun stuff. For selfish reasons I secretly would like this to morph into a retro game show for all consoles over time. Sure do the Nintendo story coverage if you want, but i'd love discussions of early Genesis, PSX, PC gaming, etc.

EZA Podcast - One of my favorite Damiani appearances. Normally he hangs back with topics he's not interested in, and that's fine. But this one he was a lot more engaged and him and Bosman playing off each other is always enjoyable.

Movie Podcast - I liked Ep 1 more than 2. I think the more "class room" discussions is cool but if you do that you gotta keep the podcast to an hour. This one was a murky defined theme and it meandered a lot. I like how Ian weaves in the comments from patreons, and keeps it moving. Mixing it up with some more segments would help it along too.

TTE - We're moving into the end game boys! I see ya Ben. I also want to point out how impressive I am with Brad's D&D game these days. Talk about some impressive growth of not only the game but evolving Necator into a fascinating multi layered character. He was the rookie of the bunch when they started and you could see it, but he puts in the work and is playing "real" D&D now

I think that's it. Next week we got Frame Trap and a new Gundam stream! W00t
 
P

Primethius

Banned
I started RE7 for the first time (looks damn good at 4k/60FPS) and got about an hour in. The entire time, I couldn't stop thinking about how Huber called the game cozy.

Meanwhile I'm losing my marbles and don't know if I can continue solo. I'm so weak when it comes to this kinda horror stuff.
 
B

Brian_FETO

Banned
I loved what I played of RE7, only played a few hours but yeah. The stress is real

Ended up just watching the EZA full playthrough and honestly? I think the stuff I played was my favorite part as it's basically just Evil Dead the game (before branching off to other types of horror and Resident Evil-ness)
 
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