I don't mind you dis-proving and discussing what I write, but put some context against it to why. It's not like what I'm saying is gospel, but surely a gaming community can have a constructive discussion around technicalities yes?
EDGE: "Power struggle: the real differences between PS4 and Xbox One performance"
- Thread starter Musiol
- Start date
Syphon Filter
Member
lol dam.
AdmiralPain
Banned
Phones and tablets were around when the Kinect launched. All the Kinect needs is a single killer app.
The casual crowd is not going to pay $500 for a console.
Well, not really. It's pros and cons between both consoles. The PS4 needs that massive GPU because its throttled its CPU with GDDR. Sony played it very smart with their financial situation.
Syphon Filter
Member
Kinect is not the right decision. You realize they already tried that with xbox 360 right? Casuals will look at it as the same thing. That is the mistake Nintendo did with WiiU.
What you just typed will need an extreme amount of energy to explain, I would honestly sugguest reading around the boards a bit, the answers are there, without getting into it, theres definately alot of flaws, to start with the GDDR5 latency, the CU's etc
gundamkyoukai
Member
No you have no idea what you are talking about and everything you said has already been deal with .
In fact your first point alone shows you don't understand stuff drivers\ API will continue to improve even after the systems out.
AdmiralPain
Banned
A console generation is not a race, it's a marathon. Maybe the PS4 sells better in the first few months. It will just be temporary. As I said, the casual market is crucial for the success of a console.
Chobel
Member
I tried my best to understand this, I just couldn't. Mind explain what are you talking about here?
Also, OpenGL?
Andronicus
Banned
I do get what he is saying. The Wii showed that there is a large audience of casual gamers looking for gaming experiences beyond console graphics. The audience at GAF may not like the Kinect, but there is no doubt an audience for Kinect and similar experiences.
I'm just not so sure Kinect is the next Wii. The 360 and the PS3 sold just fine without Kinect or Wii motion controls being attached to it. Also, it seems to me that most casual gamers would be playing on their phones or their PCs that run low-end games. My Mother and Grandmother both play puzzle games on their PC. These choices are more accessible now with choices like Amazon Digital than they were when the Wii first came around.
Call of Duty, Madden, FIFA...etc. I think PS3 has plenty of casual appeal.
Gimmicks only work when you also have the price advantage. Xbox One doesnt.
So that's what I think. Xbox one doesnt have casual appeal, not at that price.
You should stop posting now because you're clueless. Please stop.
This is what MS should be concerned with. Pet rock syndrome. And I say that as a Kinect supporter!
Nononono, the difference is more like:
PS4
Xbone
4reel guise
Pssshh more like
PS4
Bone
He really doesn't know what he's talking about. Especially the fact that he completely ignored the separate chip in the PS4 that does audio/video encoding/decompression
Edit: He is really close to becoming the new Reiko.
Chobel
Member
Xbox 360 and PS3 survived. Also Wii had the image of "console for casuals" and because of that hardcore games didn't sell well.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
And motion gaming, a gimmick that died with the Wii and is currently helping kill the WiiU, and got old with the first Kinect, is that value?
I doubt it but I guess we'll see.
GPU's love GDDR because they don't work on clock cycles. They process their tasks parallel and without interruption, like a "stream". Hence their name. If the CPU is calling the RAM, it has to wait for that RAM to return with its result. It can't change what its doing, or carry on with something else, it literally has to sit and wait. The CPU could miss several clock cycles (depending on the clock speed) until GDDR returns. That's why DDR is prefered as a general computing memory.
GPU's on the other hand, can jump ship and work on something else when they wait for GDDR to return, they don't have clock cycles and simply keep ticking. Hence why they're prefered for maths calculations and not intermittent calls or changing things about. Although, when the GPU is managing its tasks this is primarily down to the software handling which in this case will be OpenGL. How baked and fully implemented this iteration of OpenGL is in the PS4, I don't know but if its not in there, it'll be left to the developers and things can get messy. Its essentially what sony meant by "coding to the metal".
Sorry if I've just rambled a bit.
This post explains that point.
Andronicus
Banned
Beerman462
Member
If you've been following Gaf for any amount of time you would know that GDDR5 latency is a non issue. The latency in discrete gpu comes from the memory controller. The fact that you mentioned it discredits your entire post.
Are you implying the Xvone will get a price cut a few months after launch?
Didn't think so. The first few months are crucial in a consoles lifecycle.
If PS4 gets the lead this year, which I think is very likely, that means it will get more word of mouth. Add to that the price advantage and it makes it easy for it to lead the market in all territories.
krypt0nian
Banned
See Nintendo as far as counting on repeating the wii thing.
Now in reality, how many? The market is driven right now by multiplats, and one console should/will have the best of them. Kinect won't factor.
Let me ask, did DirectX or OpenGL ever get upgraded after the consoles got released? These drivers are final at manufacturing and both companies have had theirs final for a very long time, which makes me believe this article is just capitalistic journalism at its best.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Who knows more about hardware design than Mark Cerny and knows more about the power differences between these two consoles than the developers actually making software for them.
Got it.
It will take years for the Xbox to be at a price that the casual market would be interested in, not months. Unless they drop Kinect.
Zuhzuhzombie!!
Member
Maybe you should stop because PS4 doesn't use opengl.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Which we've been waiting several years for now.
It's a non-issue in the GPU because they can swap tasks and work on anything they want while they're waiting for GDDR to return. They'd rather do that and have the uber-high bandwidth rates for when they do all the texturing and modelling etc.
CPU's don't have that privilege. Mark Cerny himself said it was a non-issue due to audio processing being handled by the GPU.
Yeah because a $500 system will capture the casual market the way the Wii did. Lol
PS4 will have a price advantage for years. You're also vastly underestimating the power of momentum.
If these gimmicks are so important for the casual market, why isn't the Wii U doing well? Most "casual" gamers I've talked to want a PS4.
It's my tele as well
I've been playing guitar for longer than I can code, but ones a hobby and the others a profession.Trying to educate myself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0VKmk5bmI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB0VKmk5bmI
krypt0nian
Banned
Reiko is back and no one brought cake?
Well you're correct to some extend. There's PSL (Playstation shader library), GCN and LibGCM also. I'm pretty sure they all have dependencies on the platform though.
hokagespit
Member
everyone was like lets wait to hear what the devs say. devs speak. and everyone argues cloud (STILL SOMEHOW) and that these "devs" dont know what they are talking about, or arent real... november cant come soon enough
fallingdove
Member
Wow, you are very confused. You might want to come back in another 8 years - seems you have missed a few things in the time you have been a software engineer.
Thats what I was basing my tiled resources quotes on, a 16mb file that can exist in the esram, being STREAMED from files as big as 10gb textures, that along side a 1080p Frame buffer = 8mb, Double buffered = 16mb = so 16mb tiled + 16mb frame buffer = 32mb eSRAM.
However PS4 can do this too since it suports DX11.2
eSram is ideal with the low latency but the GDDR5 im sure can do it also.
AdmiralPain
Banned
Because Nintendo stupidly deemphasized motion controls with the wiiu and focused its marketing on the tablet controller, alienating and confusing most of its existing audience.
James Sawyer Ford
Banned
-CPU isn't crippled at all by GDDR5 latency. Their hUMA architeture and bussing should mitigate any large concerns about that.
-Microsoft's specialized audio hardware is also for encoding, the additional hardware is for Kinect's special purpose processing. Xbox One still needs to offload audio tasks to either CPU or GPU, so this isn't some advantage you're making it out to be.
-Physics should be handled by the GPU thanks to GPGPU in both Xbox One and PS4. Again, this isn't an advantage for Microsoft, in fact the contrary; PS4 has far more hardware dedicated to GPGPU so expect to see larger differences as developers come to grips with asynchronous compute.
-Those extra CU's are going to get plenty of work. Asynchronous compute allows developers to get extra performance out of idle GPU performance.
-Albert Penello is relaying information (or misinformation) about their own hardware, and isn't saying anything about the PS4's hardware choices. I'd love to hear your reasoning about why his word is better than Mark Cerny's.
Like I've said, I'm just trying to discuss around this. They're not going to manafacture consoles with beta drivers are they? I can find the article (for X1 atleast) when they state they rolled the drivers on their dev-kits during E3 which were the final "mono" drivers.
To give some more context, I'm not some "Xbot" who's trying to de-rail the whole thread. I will be buying a PS4 because I love the look of DriveClub and Killzone. I also used to PC game, but considering since I had a professional career all I do is sit at my desk all day. I prefer the couch and a pad.
gundamkyoukai
Member
First thing first is PS4 does not depend DirectX or OpenGL it has it's own API.
They have a wrapper API to port stuff easy and other called PSSL ..
Chobel
Member
Adding another ALU (CU) usually would decrease the performance because of locks and synchronizing between CU and most of the time the data can't be processed in parallel. however this not always.
Adding another CU in GPU will increase performance because the data of rendering can be always processed in parallel (data parallelism).
hokagespit
Member
but thats not right. it says drivers for both are not complete....
Gaaahhhh, your avatars are confusing the shit out of me lol. Deliberate?
that's not going to happen...ever. Resolution may be a bit worse, same with framerate, but the games will mostly look similar. Giving up resolution provides a lot of room to keep all the other graphical bells and whistles turned on. I had to do this with my pc in order to keep the games maxed out before I got around to upgrading my gpu.
BleachAndPepsi
Banned
Gaaahhhh, your avatars are confusing the shit out of me lol. Deliberate?
Thank god I'm not the only one!