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Elite Dangerous: Horizons |OT| Just scratching the surface
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
- Start date
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Ok so after much confusion I think I may have figured out what's going on with Steam. Elite Dangerous received an update today of 8.2gb, shortly after Elite Dangerous: Horizons went out as a separate entry on Steam and weighs in at 6.0gb. The standard ED download contains both the 32 bit exe and 64 bit exe, whereas Horizons only contains the 64 bit exe, this is the only reason I can come up with for the smaller download.
Here's where it gets confusing. If you download the update for ED's standard version and open it from Steam there's no option to launch Horizons. However if you open the launcher from the installed directory chosen by you or by Steam's default for you then the option launch ED Horizons appears in the list too and you don't need to worry about the extra 6gb from the standalone, although you may have needed to already activate the Horizons key on Steam OR already own access through Frontier's store, I can't be sure on that. It's possible that members without access to Horizons may even be able to access Horizons through the update by launching the exe from it's directory rather Steam.
FD really need to work on their execution when releasing expansions to Steam in short. However one other thing occurred to me during this confusing process. It would appear that the Horizons players and standard ED players are now split up unless I'm misunderstanding it.
Here's where it gets confusing. If you download the update for ED's standard version and open it from Steam there's no option to launch Horizons. However if you open the launcher from the installed directory chosen by you or by Steam's default for you then the option launch ED Horizons appears in the list too and you don't need to worry about the extra 6gb from the standalone, although you may have needed to already activate the Horizons key on Steam OR already own access through Frontier's store, I can't be sure on that. It's possible that members without access to Horizons may even be able to access Horizons through the update by launching the exe from it's directory rather Steam.
FD really need to work on their execution when releasing expansions to Steam in short. However one other thing occurred to me during this confusing process. It would appear that the Horizons players and standard ED players are now split up unless I'm misunderstanding it.
Dreams-Visions
Member
time for ol' dv to finally boot up and get some shit done.
I see it's still a struggle to find the Cutter in YLR space. I guess I'll just hold off on that. I'm a greedy bastard and want the full 15% rather than 10%.
I see it's still a struggle to find the Cutter in YLR space. I guess I'll just hold off on that. I'm a greedy bastard and want the full 15% rather than 10%.
Link
Seasons said:
They ought to see each other. I'm also surprised they essentially have two (?) different clients rather than one uniform client with paywalls.
Really good job, Anton! One of the finest OTs I've ever seen, and very helpful for a game like Elite.
PS: It seems like you are missing a description for the Imperial Eagle.
Doesn't make any sense. Maybe you went in too fast?
I think they're pretty much everywhere. Definitely on high metal worlds. Not sure about ice but it seems absurd vital fuel materials wouldn't be around.
Gherid__lacksGPS
Banned
Thanks for the very informative, and hype enducing, OP. I've had my eye on ED for a while. Athough "empty space flight" doesn't hit the top of my interests, atmoshpheric entry and planet exploration very much does. It actually feels like a world, and not a tech demo like star citizen. The fact that so much effort is being put into planets, exploring and mining right now bodes well for the "sense of life and awe" to come in the future.
A few questions and clarifications:
So each year is a pass; I'm assuming the initial purchase / release of said pass offers a significant expansion to the world / gameplay out of the box. Now, will there be subsequent "free" updates through the life of that expansion / pass? I assume that's how it works from industry protocal, just checking, though.
Secondly. Its most financially viable to get a lifetime pass. However, say I wait out horizons untill next year. How will expansions be price structured? Will the new expansion roll in horizons and the vanila game?
More of a gameplay question. I read about economy, crafting, wings, alliances etc. What's the possibility of getting to a point were you can begin building settlements, craftimg vehicles for your own fleets or as trade items into said economy? Or, is your role as a player more of a cog in a larger system, whose resources add to/influence an omni presence so to speak?
A few questions and clarifications:
So each year is a pass; I'm assuming the initial purchase / release of said pass offers a significant expansion to the world / gameplay out of the box. Now, will there be subsequent "free" updates through the life of that expansion / pass? I assume that's how it works from industry protocal, just checking, though.
Secondly. Its most financially viable to get a lifetime pass. However, say I wait out horizons untill next year. How will expansions be price structured? Will the new expansion roll in horizons and the vanila game?
More of a gameplay question. I read about economy, crafting, wings, alliances etc. What's the possibility of getting to a point were you can begin building settlements, craftimg vehicles for your own fleets or as trade items into said economy? Or, is your role as a player more of a cog in a larger system, whose resources add to/influence an omni presence so to speak?
Yes, Horizons covers the entire year of updates with no future cost. Until next season of course.
Looking like it'll most likely be the same cost or close to the cost of Horizons every year going forward to pay for the entire season. It's unknown if future expansions will include the previous but I'd imagine it would to keep the player base together.
No settlement building or crafting vehicles. You're very much a tiny cog in the system, and the system or background simulation is extremely shallow and lacking. Much like the majority of game systems at the moment. Elite as a whole is still very much just a basic framework. We won't really see any depth until later this upcoming year or next.
If you still haven't bought into Elite, I say stay out until they actually fill the game with content.
To add to DrBo's answer, yes, if they stay with their current model, the new season next year will include Horizons and vanilla. Ideally, all players will continue to play with each other, but those with that coming season 3 will have access to its exclusive features (the bets on that are on, I'm rooting for space legs, walking in ships and stations ;-) ).
This is a bit "punishing" for players adapting the game during early seasons, because they'll have to purchase the new seasons at full price or wait for sales at the end of the season. However, it is a quasi subscription, as this most likely funds the continued development of the game and running the required servers. It's not a real subscription, as it let's you play the game with that feature set for as long as the servers are running, without further subscription cost. Also, starting to play early, well, lets you play early. If you're a more casual player, but still would like to get the bigger ships, you're looking at a lot of time to get there.
This is pretty much how I see it too :
- New players can buy the current season with all seasons included, like for MMOs (to keep the player base together)
- Owners of the base game get a discount on the newest season
- Pricing is thus 60$ for entry, 45$ for each additional expansion season (assuming it stays the same)
- Of that, I attribute 20$ to the quasi-subscription model (less than 2$ per month) and 25$ for the expac
I find it reasonable if you look at it like that.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
I spent a few hours on an icy planet and I found 5 sulfur and 7 phosphorous, they seem to be the most common from what I've seen so far. I don't think fuel for the SRV is going to be any kind of problem, but the materials for the higher FSD injections, they seem to be much more rare.
I've got a much less pessimistic outlook on the game than Dr does. It's a space sandbox on a huge scale. If you like games where you can choose your own path, games that allow you to really immerse yourself in awesome flight mechanics and great combat and explore with fantastic sights to see, then you will have fun. If you need the game to tell you what to do, if you need a missions to give you a reason to fly, and if you want to make as many credits as fast as possible and min max grind, then no I'd say Elite isn't going to be satisfying for you.
As a space simulator though, with immense freedom, it's the best space game of that type every made IMHO, with a very bright future in front of it too. But not everyone will find this type of game enthralling or engaging as it's "too" open ended for them. The original Elite's were the same way, not everyone loved them, no matter how groundbreaking they were.
Personally, this will be the game I spend the most time with this year, easily.
TyrantGuardian
Member
Wait, this costs money? As someone very used to stuff like this being free updates (Thanks Valve and Blizzard) for the majority of games I play, this feels completely absurd to me. Guess I'm out.
I seriously hope this is sarcasm, but my detector is not going off. Should I have it checked?
Legacy of the Void is free? Where do I sign up?
David Incorporated Esq.
Member
Horizons isn't a huge addition of content just yet, but really what they're doing is a season-based subscription. $40 for planetary exploration? Ehhhh.... $40 for everything they're adding this year? Yeah that seems just fine.
Just pretend that you're paying $3 a month for the game and it seems pretty all right.
Just pretend that you're paying $3 a month for the game and it seems pretty all right.
Felix Lighter
Member
The truth is they aren't Valve, they aren't Blizzard (though Blizzard seems like an odd mention since they sell expansions all the time), so their business model has to reflect reality. They fund development for continued updates to the game for a year in this way. Obviously, their business reality isn't a consumer's problem so I understand if the price is too steep for some people. For me, i'll play this more than any other $60 game I play next year by a huge margin, hundreds of hours more.
Veritigo_X
Member
Really impressed with the variety of planets. I'm having a blast just flying around the surface. I haven't really gotten much into the SRV because I'm too lazy to map the controls right now (why weren't they mapped from the start!?).
Gotta wait for a patch. I guess the devs forgot they were actually releasing this thing.
Gotta wait for a patch. I guess the devs forgot they were actually releasing this thing.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Wait...Wtf?!! When I paid for the season pass it was supposedly to include 3-4 major expansions, a lot of which are features that have not made it into Horizons and appear to not be planned for the next year either. Are you seriously telling me FD are going to ask for more money next year when I've already given them £100 which could buy me 3 games elsewhere?
Solo play issues were dumb, the delays for features were annoying, but if Braben does that then he's crossing the damn line and I'll be staying the hell away from anything else he does in the future. I really hope you're wrong, the expansion is already very expensive for very little content. I mean, that surely has to be backtracking on the original pledge, which I signed up for?
Frontier's marketing strategy is in shambles if a guy who bought the season pass doesn't even know that he gets rights to every major expansion until the end of time.
The amount of confusion about who gets what or how to install horizons just in this thread alone is insanity (I had trouble myself and I was a kickstarter backer). Frontier really needs to get their head out of their ass and do some major simplification of their business model.
The amount of confusion about who gets what or how to install horizons just in this thread alone is insanity (I had trouble myself and I was a kickstarter backer). Frontier really needs to get their head out of their ass and do some major simplification of their business model.
The lifetime season pass includes all seasons, from 1 to 10, horizons being the start of season 2.
Seriously, how do you shell out 100£ and not even know in detail what it is you're buying ?
Felix Lighter
Member
The OP here lays out all announced Horizons features for this year, with sone others hinted at. It isn't a mystery what you will be getting. You can decide now whether you will forever boycott Braben.
Having a torrid time since the update. The launcher shows there's now a 64 but client and recommends I use that, so I do. Launches fine, I play for a bit and quit. Try launching a little later and the launcher doesn't respond. Quit, try launching the 32bit client and nothing happens. Uninstall, redownload, install, launch 64bit and it plays fine. Quit and try to play again later and the launcher doesn't respond.
The thing is this guy already owns the lifetime pass and doesn't even know what he has.
But but....my immersion!
Anyone had trouble redeeming the steam key in their website? Mine says the key is invalid.
Edit: Seems to be a high traffic error or something. Gonna try again later.
Winterblink
Member
So I went through most of the beta without knowing what the fuck a POI was and how to find one. Hint: skim the surface at around 2km and watch for blue circles on your ship's radar (increase range, PGUP and PGDN).
I'm fucking about with this last night and I'm like ok here's one. Drop down and go out in my rover, find a fairly heavily defended illegal mining outpost. Blow the snot out of the defenses and start destroying mining gear and they're all dropping ore. I was only in a Cobra mk III, but there were probably a few dozen mining rigs and each was dropping stuff around 5k a pop. Not too bad for a bit of combat and having to run back to drop cargo off at your ship for a bit, wish I had landed with something with more cargo space.
Anyway, check out those POIs. They can be neato.
I'm fucking about with this last night and I'm like ok here's one. Drop down and go out in my rover, find a fairly heavily defended illegal mining outpost. Blow the snot out of the defenses and start destroying mining gear and they're all dropping ore. I was only in a Cobra mk III, but there were probably a few dozen mining rigs and each was dropping stuff around 5k a pop. Not too bad for a bit of combat and having to run back to drop cargo off at your ship for a bit, wish I had landed with something with more cargo space.
Anyway, check out those POIs. They can be neato.
Had an intersting discussion with a friend concerning instancing and the resulting loss in persistence. E.g. signal sources spawning for each player individually, rather than for all players in a supercruise instance.
His stance was basically that they ought to create active backend servers for the supercruise instances at the very least, so everyone sees the same signal sources etc..
While such a system is certainly possible, I don't see how they would even go about it, as that would have too many variables. And if it was in the cards, I don't see how they would not ask for a real time based subscription or go into a free to play model.
The maximum required amount of such server instances would be unknown. At worst, every single currently playing player could be in a separate solar system, requiring one supercruise server for themselves. The amount of such necessary servers and therefore required processing power/memory could be wildly fluctuating with the amount of players active at any point in time for one thing.
I simply don't see how they would go about adding such servers without also introducing a subscription system or going for a free to play model. The latter would mean the end of the game if they couldn't hit the critical mass for micro transactions and the former would turn it into another subscription based MMO.
There's a lot to be done with more sensible NPC spawns and better synchronization of signal sources within an instance, but I can't see them adapting a server based instancing model.
His stance was basically that they ought to create active backend servers for the supercruise instances at the very least, so everyone sees the same signal sources etc..
While such a system is certainly possible, I don't see how they would even go about it, as that would have too many variables. And if it was in the cards, I don't see how they would not ask for a real time based subscription or go into a free to play model.
The maximum required amount of such server instances would be unknown. At worst, every single currently playing player could be in a separate solar system, requiring one supercruise server for themselves. The amount of such necessary servers and therefore required processing power/memory could be wildly fluctuating with the amount of players active at any point in time for one thing.
I simply don't see how they would go about adding such servers without also introducing a subscription system or going for a free to play model. The latter would mean the end of the game if they couldn't hit the critical mass for micro transactions and the former would turn it into another subscription based MMO.
There's a lot to be done with more sensible NPC spawns and better synchronization of signal sources within an instance, but I can't see them adapting a server based instancing model.
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
Ah that makes a lot more sense, I thought it was kind of odd that my pass was listed as lifetime, but I didn't actually know they had a lifetime pass PLUS separate passes for each year now. I wouldn't have even minded to be honest if they wanted a pass that covers anything added after they covered all original plans, but at first it seemed like the goalpost for that pass had been moved, clearly I was wrong and gladly so.
I have to admit that due to the various packages that were sold throughout the funding process I do sometimes get a bit lost trying to find where I fall into the various categories, but I suppose this is more just a matter of the effect of crowdfunding where packages have to be available for various pledge sizes and essentially create different tiers of ownership especially when expansions are included in the pledge packages.
Gormenghast
Member
It doesn't seem so. They left the question open, hinting that a "Season" is more likely just 6/8/10 months than a full year:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=172526
Anton Sugar
Member
Not much, if any, closer than you can now. However, you'll see the improved looking planets. You might even be able to get into Orbital Cruise, but I'm not sure.
I was mostly trying to use FD's official descriptions, but they don't have any for a lot of ships. Had to use Elite Wiki, which pulled them from the game--even so, they don't have a description for the Imperial Eagle OR Cutter. Trying to get that info.
Glad we have you to add balance to the Force.
Yup. I'm guilty of doing it in the past, but it's foolish to think "X company does DLC like this and I like it, so ABC companies should, too." Games approach development, and funding, differently, for different reasons.
That's kinda his own fault, no? I mean, I don't know how he read this
And thought it would impact his Lifetime Season Pass. Pretty sure the description for the Season Pass (its not on the store anymore, can't check) clearly indicates that it covers all expansions.
I managed to find some on high metal planets, phosphorus seems more difficult to obtain than sulphur. Now I just need to figure out which planets and which deposits contain the higher grade goodies and I can start frameshifting out of the galactic plane.
Winterblink
Member
So here's a question. I tend to play in solo mode usually (just because), and inevitably an NPC tries to interdict me when I get close to any destination.
I mean... I don't mind being interdicted once in a while, but it's predictably 99% of the time when I'm warping to a destination of any kind, a NPC contact will spawn and zip straight to try to interdict me (I've got no cargo, no bounties). Again I don't mind having this happen occasionally but it's almost every single time and it's boring as hell. I end up just submitting to the interdiction and either blowing away the NPC or speeding away and FSDing away safely.
I dunno, am I alone in this? It alternates between annoying and boring when it occurs that often.
I mean... I don't mind being interdicted once in a while, but it's predictably 99% of the time when I'm warping to a destination of any kind, a NPC contact will spawn and zip straight to try to interdict me (I've got no cargo, no bounties). Again I don't mind having this happen occasionally but it's almost every single time and it's boring as hell. I end up just submitting to the interdiction and either blowing away the NPC or speeding away and FSDing away safely.
I dunno, am I alone in this? It alternates between annoying and boring when it occurs that often.
Anton Sugar
Member
It's possible this is changing for Season 2, but Season/Year 1 had five episodes (patches 1.1-1.5), which were released every 2-3 months.
There hasn't been any indication that there won't be the same number of content patches/additions to the expansion. From a recent community stream:
Keep in mind the Season 2 question marks at less "we have no content planned!" and more "we are working on several additions to Horizons and aren't 100% sure yet which will be ready first." It wouldn't surprise me if separate teams are working, individually, on looting/crafting, multi-crew, etc.
Veritigo_X
Member
I don't think server instances for supercruise would be necessary just to sync signal sources. Really the only time you need other players to see signal source is when they are in the same system near the location of the signal source.
I'm not familiar at all with how they handle multiplayer so I'm just throwing stuff out there, but I think it could be handled with P2P. Player A arrives in a system and a signal source is generated in front of him locally on his machine and is considered the "owner" of that signal source. Player B arrives in the same system (same server instance) a few minutes later. If Player B nears the location of Player A, Player A sends the necessary info for Player B to generate the same signal source locally on his machine. If Player A leaves area of the signal source or leaves the instance, ownership transfers to Player B.
Or something like that.
TyrantGuardian
Member
Oh please. This is nowhere near a full expansion set content-wise. Or have I missed something?
UpDownLeftRight
Banned
To be honest I was just completely unaware they had a lifetime season pass and individual season passes for each year, or whatever is actually going on with that front it still seems a little confusing to be honest. This has got to be the first time I've encountered anything that has different tiers of season pass.
Horizon is a season, one year of updates. It's just not the initial content but all we'll get through the year.
Anton Sugar
Member
Given the recent reveal that Thargoids will be the focus of Horizon's storyline, I'm looking to add a section on them soon.
The following are some features and expansions that are coming in Year 2:
If you have doubts on whether or not that will be enough content for you, just wait and see how it plays out. It's foolish to try to apply the same DLC content strategies from one of the, if not THE, PC dev giant that is Blizzard, to a studio like Frontier Developments.
The following are some features and expansions that are coming in Year 2:
- Confirmed for 2.1: Crafting & Looting: Use raw materials to create new and enhanced ship components
- Multi-crew: Command your ship with up to four friends, each focused on a specific role
- Max four crew per ship
- Four roles: Helm (piloting), Fire Control (turrets/weapons), Countermeasures (shields, tactical), Engineering (sensors, navigation, repairs)
- Balance focused to make it on-par with having a Wing of four ships
- Uses Wing system
- Can "hotswap" between roles (even solo players!) but Helm has ultimate control over assignments
- Teammates can move to fighter craft and deploy from docking bay
- Uses SRV-style "neural link" or UI interface (source)
- Commander Creator: Create and customize your in-game avatar
- New SRVs: New variations of SRVs are coming, with different purposes and equipment
- More ships!
- Volcanism: Volcanic activity, including ice volcanoes, is coming! Geysers may make an appearance, as well.
- Weather Systems: Very rudimentary weather systems may come to Horizons (yes, this is separate/different from fully atmospheric worlds)
- Thargoids: Thargoids will be the main storyline focus, starting with "The Missing," in Season 2!
If you have doubts on whether or not that will be enough content for you, just wait and see how it plays out. It's foolish to try to apply the same DLC content strategies from one of the, if not THE, PC dev giant that is Blizzard, to a studio like Frontier Developments.
Mh. You might have missed the fact where they have about 100 people working on the game continuously as well the upkeeping cost for some backend servers? Maybe also the fact, that they're not gigantic, filthy rich company with a portfolio of million selling E-sport or MMO titles or the quasi monopoly for digital distribution on PC (Steam) to sustain them otherwise.
Also the fact that things usually don't come free. And when they "do" for you - see f2p titles - they're either financed by other players buying into micro transactions or by other means.
What is this freeloader mentality? The fact that things have a price tag attached should really not be debatable.
Anton Sugar
Member
Honestly, one of the things I'm looking forward to most is the mission system overhaul. Just added it to the list of things coming, but I hope we get more info on it soon.
I think this is a slight misunderstanding:
- there are expansions. e.g. Horizons.
- there is the lifetime *expansion* pass, which contains all expansions.
The only thing to note is that the expansion consists of modules, delivered over the course of a "season" so players refer to them as a "season pass".
The irony is that the term 'season pass' is often understood to mean 'all DLC for a title', when that is precisely what it is NOT intended to mean. (season pass is supposed to imply that a game will have multiple seasons, and allow a publisher to sell a "season pass" for the second season)