Simbabbad
Member
Being cautious or not optimistic is perfectly reasonable, but being upset at this stage is frankly weird.
Emily Rogers: Nintendo Working on Unannounced Wii U Game [Update: Paper Mario]
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
Kissenkopf
Banned
The gaming community at its best.
Green Mamba
Member
Saying "only two games" is very misleading as to the length of time it's been since a traditional Paper Mario, which is over a decade ago. There is a very great fear in the fanbase that IS doesn't want to or can't (either through inability or mandate) make a Paper Mario like the original two and we really don't have anything to suggest otherwise, especially after Paper Jam. It comes out of fear that is in no way unfounded.
Your post started great, but something happened here. You sure you don't mean the exact opposite? If not, what are your reasons for being "upset" (lol)? The name "Paper Mario"? That's all we know about it.
I guess I meant worried instead of upset. Will edit that now.
All Paper Jam does is it takes the generic Mario story of Bowser kidnapping Peach and adds Paper versions of characters. I find it really hard to argue that it didn't completely waste the crossover potential.
We have seen the same locales and story in so many other Mario games that it really doesn't matter if this was a first for a Mario RPG. Also, IIRC, BiS takes place in the mushroom kingdom but it still manages to feel original.
Of course it would have made sense. They could have just as easily opened the book with the paper characters outside the Mushroom Kingdom, in any number of places.
Miyamoto demanded to have as few original character in Sticker Star as possible and then suddenly Paper Jam also has no original characters. Maybe it's just a coincidence but it worries me. It worries me a lot.
Jonneh3003
Banned
I get your side, I just think we should wait until we've actually seen the game or at least hear any details.
Paper Jam is made by alphadream. And still plays at its core like a M&L game.
It's not in the same situation as Paper Mario. Unless you meant to say "after Sticker Star."
Sure, if you are a fan of the series, and are upset already that its going to be screwed up.
But for plenty of people, every time a unknown Wii u game comes to light its a chance that their neglected franchise they are a fan of could finally be getting a game.
Having that not pan out is always dissapointimg, but to a franchise that is already saturating the generation with plenty of releases? Yeah, they can be upset.
On the flip side, I hope the final boss isn't hilariously easy like SPM lol.
Green Mamba
Member
Paper Jam plays like a M&L but it's similar to Sticker Star in that it's stripped of anything original in setting or characters and I don't think it's crazy to think that was due to the mandate that made Sticker Star what it was.
Essentially, Paper Jam makes it look like the forces that made Sticker Star are still at work in the world of Mario RPGs.
What was wrong with it?? I loved the last boss
The last Paper Mario game came out in 2012. I mean, sure, IntSys could have waited but it's not that outrageous.
Could be. We just don't know.
M&L 5 was also made with a lot of reused assets, and creating original characters would've required a lot more new art assets. So the lack of original characters could've been from that as well. Again, we don't know for sure.
The next entry in each franchise will likely provide answers.
I don't get Miyamoto's opposition to original characters. If Nintendo stopped adding original characters to games at different points, we wouldn't have the massive stable of beloved characters we see today. Imagine if he put a stop to Wario or Rosalina back in the day
Rosalina is one of Miyamoto's creations right? Makes sense why he wouldnt stop her. Im surprised Wario became as big as he did after Mario Land 2 considering Miyamoto had nothing to do with him.
1. Unskipable cutscenes in between parts
2. No checkpoint when you get to the second phase, meaning if you die you have to repeat all the unskipable parts over again
Plus it's just a massive difficulty spike compared to everything else in the game.
I always thought Sticker Star was Nintendo and Alphadream saying "Okay, we have a bunch of assets on the table for a new game, what do you guys want to do?.......I guess we could take Sticker Star's assets and mash them up with Dream Teams
. Great idea, here is a budget and access to the assets of Sticker Star, have fun 
!"Nintendo went into budget-mode last year to get software out faster and like Tri-Force Heroes, Paper Jam was the result of making a brand new game using little new assets as possible to save cost.
So, the reason for the lack of Paper characters from 64 and TTYD was due to not re-using assets.
Then again, they could of asked IS's for the TTYD assets as with some tweaking they could look great on the 3DS.
OrbitalBeard
Member
I can honestly say Super Paper Mario is the most disappointing game from Nintendo I've ever played. Its gameplay is insufferably boring. I made it about five hours in and had to stop.
I don't get Miyamoto's opposition to original characters. If Nintendo stopped adding original characters to games at different points, we wouldn't have the massive stable of beloved characters we see today. Imagine if he put a stop to Wario or Rosalina back in the day
The story, as I understand it, is that after Super Paper Mario Intelligent Systems and Nintendo were looking at the feedback for the game. What they found on Club Nintendo surveys were that people were interested in the new gameplay mechanics and interesting uses of Paper Mario, but very few people rated the story in the games as very important to them. So this led to Miyamoto challenging IntSys to make a new Paper Mario with no new characters to be more creative with existing characters and more creative with gameplay.
RayearthRob
Member
I've played the 3DS one and never gonna touch that franchise again.
I always thought Sticker Star was Nintendo and Alphadream saying "Okay, we have a bunch of assets on the table for a new game, what do you guys want to do?.......I guess we could take Sticker Star's assets and mash them up with Dream Teams
Nintendo went into budget-mode last year to get software out faster and like Tri-Force Heroes, Paper Jam was the result of making a brand new game using little new assets as possible to save cost.
So, the reason for the lack of Paper characters from 64 and TTYD was due to not re-using assets.
Then again, they could of asked IS's for the TTYD assets as with some tweaking they could look great on the 3DS.
TTYD sprites work differerently than Sticker Stars. Characters like Mario and made of up individually moving parts, even on the actual map itself. Wheras for Sticker Star, on the map it's just one complete sprite. Hence the difference in animation style (TTYD having smooth walking while Sticker Star has 2 frames for walking) and more anims.
tldr; using TTYD sprites would've required more effort for the moving parts style than SS. And budget/time was the forefront for the game as you said.
DAREALGUMMY
Member
If it's anything like Super Paper Mario, no thanks.
Pancakes R Us
Member
I thought this was supposed to be revealed on Monday.
Any meltdowns yet?
Any meltdowns yet?
It's been a while since I last played it, but I know I beat the boss on my first attempt so I never really encountered those problems. The cutscenes would be annoying for sure though. I don't think the final boss in a game being a difficulty spike is a bad thing however, too many games have disappointingly easy final bosses.
If only such feedback had been taken in regards to TTYD....
Games need to strike a balance between the two. Something too easy leads to disappointment but something unnecessarily hard leads to frustration and may taint feelings regarding the rest of the game.
Is the game being announced on Monday or was the leak previously scheduled for then?
just the leak.
It's interesting that this was the result of the survey when one considers the reaction to SPM/SS and the general trepidation with regard to this news. You'd have thought things would have gone the other way.
I mean, I know GAF ain't the world and all, but I don't think the sentiment is exclusive to this forum.
Very true, I just don't think this game had a last boss that was unnecessarily difficult. I don't remember being over-leveled, and if you had a solid grip on the battle system the fight is fair. I was also quite young the first time I played TTYD and not nearly as good at RPGs.
Which people do you mean? SPM and Sticker Star are the best selling games in the franchise.
foxuzamaki
Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
I think its just because they were reusing assets to save money
Mr. Wonderful
Member
The thing is, it can't be worse than Sticker Star.
So unless this is another rush job/cash-in like Paper Jam, it can only go up.
So unless this is another rush job/cash-in like Paper Jam, it can only go up.
Yeah it's an interesting situation.
They're the best selling, but also have the biggest install bases.
And if something like TTYD did ~1.91m on an install base of 22 million, is Sticker Star doing ~2.24m (as of Dec '14) on a much larger install base a great result? Should more have been expected? Or is it a type of game not as dependent on install base?
who knows, these are the questions.
MrSaturn99
Member
I'd say february direct. E3 Would be too late.
GenericJoe
Member
Yeah, learning that Paper Jam seems to have gone through the same NSMBification when it comes to characters and level design as Sticker Star, has now made me pretty pessimistic about the new Paper Mario. It doesn't seem like there would have been enough time between the development of Paper Jam and the new Paper Mario for Nintendo to suddenly change their stance on the NSMBification of Mario RPGs.
I would love this.
For all we know the new PM was started before Paper Jam or around the same time.
That doesn't exclude it from having generic worlds, but I was just pointing it out.
GhostTrick
Banned
TheMoon
Member
GenericJoe
Member
Yeah, I know development may have been concurrent for a time, which would mean an even worse chance of generic setting/characters if the "no original characters" mentality was still prevalent.