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Emirates named World's Best Airline in 2016 Skytrax Awards (Top 10 announced)

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I think its because this thread is mostly of people who have actually been to these countries instead of just reading how horrible it supposedly is.

Or the people knowledgeable about flying on expensive overseas flights (mostly for business) might not be interacting too often with the slaves building sports stadiums.

Not really. This is a case of the UAE being progressive and socially ahead of most other countries. It should be an example. Capitalism blows.

Uh, a state-owned airline that operates as a propaganda front for the country is not the same as a state-owned train system operated for the benefit of the average citizen. Calling the UAE progressive on any level is an incredibly Orwellian use of that word.
 
Ive flown around the world a lot. But never on Emirates or Etihad, too expensive for me.

Cathay Pacific from Hong Kong to Sri Lanka was my best international flight.

I also had a good flight with Qantas from Santiago to Sydney, the crew on that flight was awesome and I even wrote a letter to Qantas after that, saying thankyou. My last flight with Qantas from Santiago to Sydney was BAD. They had redesigned the layout on their Airbus planes so that the toilets for all of economy class are at the back. So there was a massive line up at the back where I was sitting and people were always talking so I couldnt get much sleep.

The worst was Iberia from Madrid to Cairo. It was the graveyard shift and the plane left Madrid around 1.30am. The crew didnt even bother to take drinks or breakfast around, you just went to the back of the plane and helped yourself.

I flew with United from Sydney to LA which was crap. The service was good and friendly but they were all old people so they were slow. The plane facilities were crap, bad entertainment and seats.
 
US airlines have been in a race to the bottom for years. The airlines and the airports are trash by international standards. Flying from almost anywhere to JFK, LAX etc is amazing. The difference in feel and facilities is eye opening. My 12 yo came back from the US and was like the US airports are shit dad.

I've been to plenty of major international Airports around the world and I agree LAX is the worst I have been too.

I paid $50 to go into a room for a day where there was decent wifi, toilet and it was clean to sit.
 
It's been known for a long time that the Gulf carriers are heavily subsidized by their governments. If they stood on their own, you would see huge cost increases, or large reductions in the luxury.
 

my6765490

Member
Never thought much of Cathay since that was the main way of travel out of HK (or HKIA for that matter), then I went to US domestic flights/airports...

Appreciating local airline/airport a loooot more now.
 

rambis

Banned
So you are telling me Qatar isn't treating it's guest workers like 3rd class citizens? All these investigative reports are just making things up?

Also I'm quite sure Qatar Airlines has destinations other than Qatar.
Qatar isnt a corporation, its a country. Its laws allow for the workers to be mistreated but its the contractors who are the one's who are actually doing the dirt. And its far from every contractor, alot of those workers are living lush lives compared to where they escaped from and are grateful to be living there.

Not sure what the point of your second paragraph is.


Or the people knowledgeable about flying on expensive overseas flights (mostly for business) might not be interacting too often with the slaves building sports stadiums.

Uh, I lived in both the UAE and Qatar and regularly worked with the workers from Mussafah and the similar camps. Made alot of friends who I still contact on the regular. Far from rich but what do I know...
Uh, a state-owned airline that operates as a propaganda front for the country is not the same as a state-owned train system operated for the benefit of the average citizen. Calling the UAE progressive on any level is an incredibly Orwellian use of that word.

I don't care what you think the reason for its existance is. It does benefit the average citizen plus some and other countries could learn a thing or two about it. UAE is progressive in alot of ways but I can't expect you to understand that if all you have to go off is boogey man stories.


It's been known for a long time that the Gulf carriers are heavily subsidized by their governments. If they stood on their own, you would see huge cost increases, or large reductions in the luxury.
This is supposed to be a bad thing?
 

Griss

Member
I never trust these awards because all I care about us the economy experience and these awards are about much more than that. Recently did a trip from the Caribbean to Kenya involving 6 flights return - 12 total. American, Kenyan airways, aer lingus, KLM, Ethiopian and jet blue. As you can tell I was doing it on the cheap.

For me, Kenyan airlines was shockingly bad. Beat up plane and they didn't even turn on the AC. Are lingua was poor as well. KLM was great but I got lucky with a great seat. American had by far the most leg room in economy and for that reason alone as a 6'2 guy they're the ones who'll get my business next time. Both Ethiopian and JetBlue exceeded my modest expectations.
 
Qatar isnt a corporation, its a country. Its laws allow for the workers to be mistreated but its the contractors who are the one's who are actually doing the dirt. And its far from every contractor, alot of those workers are living lush lives compared to where they escaped from and are grateful to be living there.

Which is the problem here. And when the contractors that are mistreating the workers are hired by the government you can see why so many people have a problem with them.

As long as Qatar Airlines is just another venture funded by their abusive government i cannot and will not support it, no matter how plush the seats are.
 
I can't believe we actually have Qatar FORCED LABOR apologists on here, what in the world...

Maybe Qatar should stop funding its airlines (who don't need the funding in order to provide acceptable service qualities) and use that money to pay migrant workers.
 

rambis

Banned
Which is the problem here. And when the contractors that are mistreating the workers are hired by the government you can see why so many people have a problem with them.

As long as Qatar Airlines is just another venture funded by their abusive government i cannot and will not support it, no matter how plush the seats are.

The workers hired by government are generally the ones living plush. How do I know? Because I was working for their government. I wouldnt call a government with mostly a hands off approach abusive....

I can't believe we actually have Qatar FORCED LABOR apologists on here, what in the world...

Maybe Qatar should stop funding its airlines (who don't need the funding in order to provide acceptable service qualities) and use that money to pay migrant workers.
I assume this is aimed at me? How am I apologizing for anything?? Do you not understand that Qatar the government doesnt neogotiate these contracts or have anything to do with their pay???

If people actually took time to understand where the issue is we could have a decent discussion about this.

Also GCC citizens have mostly great state sponsored benefits and entitlements. Greater than the US in alot of cases. Its the fact that most of these laborers are from outside this region and that the country generally doesnt interfere with foriegn labor.

This works well for citizens of western countries or really any country with a decent economy but the problem is that these other workers are from shit holes and get brought to the country on these contracts.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
This is a really good question and one that is rarely asked, and people dismissively say "because they want to screw us!" But then, why can't international airlines come in and compete with American airline companies, which would then cause the US Airlines, JetBlues, and others, to start competing...? Well, because they're not allowed to be law.

Non-American airline companies cannot provide domestic flights in the US because of 'cabotage' restrictions, an ancient word, but the law of the land. It's a protectionist law but it also prevents a company like Emirates from coming in and flying vastly cheaper flights using vastly lesser paid employees, getting gas subsidies from the UAE, and paying no corporate taxes in the UAE. If Emirates came in and competed directly with Delta, Delta would be put out of business.

But beyond that, the flying experience is further made worse in the US By a few major factors:

  • There is very little competition between country-wide air travel. You have 3 major country-wide airlines, and then mostly only regional airlines, but because of individual contracts at specific airports, one airline will "dominate" an airport and consider it their "hub."
  • Non-US airlines have wages far below US airlines, which are protected by federal laws and importantly a very strong Airline employees union.
  • While Singapore or Emirates can hire only beautiful, twenty-something women, and mandate that they wear a specific outfit, wear certain makeup, and act a certain way, American airline companies are forbidden from discrimination in hiring along any race, sex, age, or gender lines. Singapore Air only hires beautiful young women for customer-facing positions who are only temporary, contract employees and only the best of the best (or most beautiful) get their contracts renewed.
  • None of the US passenger flight companies are state owned or state subsidized, which isn't the case for dozens of major airlines that they compete against.
  • Airline jobs are high-paying in the US and are considered "career" jobs. THis is a good thing for airline employees, but it can have mixed results for passengers, who may feel like trips to the airport are more like trips to the DMV... Airlines in other countries that generally perform highly in these comparisons are aggressive with hiring and firing, employ many workers on contractual basis, and have wages well below your average American airline employee lifer... Who may be in the industry for decades, have seniority over routes, and may not be as motivated as a young person competing for a contract. This isn't the case for all European airline companies, though it specifically is the case for Cathay, Singapore, Emirates, and many other high performing airlines.
  • Geography and population density play a significant role in European air travel, and airlines also have to compete with a functioning rail system between many large cities. This drives ticket prices down. Further, there isn't government & airline collusion in Europe to limit flight numbers like there is in the US. I don't know if you remember how air travel used to be, but in the 1990s, you'd regularly fly in empty 747s in long trips... This is virtually eliminated now, and if you have an empty seat next to you on a flight, it's considered a miracle. Europe hasn't adopted this model as quickly. This leads to more flights that need seats filled at lower costs in Europe.

This post is good I'm giving you a salt pass in the Brady thread.

US Airlines are institutionally bad. Alaska is my favorite by far, closely followed by Virgin, which is now owned by Alaska. And all they had to do to be the best is not be shit.
 

numble

Member
This is supposed to be a bad thing?
Why is it a good thing to subsidize a luxury good? Since it is mostly enjoyed by the wealthy, it is an indirect subsidy given to the wealthy. Wouldn't it be more progressive to tax and redistribute the wealth that is earned from a luxury airline?
 

rambis

Banned
Why is it a good thing to subsidize a luxury good? Wouldn't it be more progressive to tax and redistribute the wealth that is earned from a luxury airline?
Flight isnt a luxury. And the luxury on these planes is being vastly overstated. Economy is still pretty much economy, its just that US airlines are so much more shitty in comparision.


Edit: See your edit. That is patently false. Its mostly the same middle class that'd you see in the US on these flights.
 
The workers hired by government are generally the ones living plush. How do I know? Because I was working for their government. I wouldnt call a government with mostly a hands off approach abusive....


I assume this is aimed at me? How am I apologizing for anything?? Do you not understand that Qatar the government doesnt neogotiate these contracts or have anything to do with their pay???

If people actually took time to understand where the issue is we could have a decent discussion about this.

Also GCC citizens have mostly great state sponsored benefits and entitlements. Greater than the US in alot of cases. Its the fact that most of these laborers are from outside this region and that the country generally doesnt interfere with foriegn labor.

This works well for citizens of western countries or really any country with a decent economy but the problem is that these other workers are from shit holes and get brought to the country on these contracts.
I understand that these workers have been taken advantage of and the Qatari government has not done anything to defend their rights.
 

numble

Member
Flight isnt a luxury. And the luxury on these planes is being vastly overstated. Economy is still pretty much economy, its just that US airlines are so much more shitty in comparision.


Edit: See your edit. That is patently false. Its mostly the same middle class that'd you see in the US on these flights.
The US middle class typically do not fly internationally (2/3 of Americans don't even have passports) or even much domestically.

The average Emirates airline ticket is $1500, compared to the average US airline ticket being less than $400. Middle class do not spend 5-10% of their after-tax income on an Emirates flight.
 
The workers hired by government are generally the ones living plush. How do I know? Because I was working for their government. I wouldnt call a government with mostly a hands off approach abusive....

A government that knows abuses are taking place and keeps a hands off approach is in fact abusive.
 

numble

Member
reminds me that I have a flight to china from atlanta on delta later this year (2 stops).... sigh.

Due to the outdated air transport agreement between the US and China, there are very few options for flying to China from the US, unless you want to do a transfer in another country (which will likely mean switching to a different, partnered Chinese airline for your transfer). I would say that Delta is actually one of the better options to fly from the US to China.
 

Bebpo

Banned
It's unfortunate that flying domestic around the us, you're pretty much stuck with us airlines. I definitely enjoy international flights much more.
 

Jeffrey

Member
Due to the outdated air transport agreement between the US and China, there are very few options for flying to China from the US, unless you want to do a transfer in another country (which will likely mean switching to a different, partnered Chinese airline for your transfer). I would say that Delta is actually one of the better options to fly from the US to China.

yep. used to travel to china pretty frequently when i was younger. There was a period of time where there was direct flights from atlanta to shanghai which was great.


Korea Air also started doing direct flights to seoul from here on a380's and I could do the transfer that way.

But I had some credit with delta so in the end its best to suffer a bit lol. Never really had an issue though, especially these days when I have my ipad pro, vita, 3ds etc. Worst case scenario, some sleepy pills to last the dozen hour flight.
 

rambis

Banned
The US middle class typically do not fly internationally (2/3 of Americans don't even have passports) or even much domestically.

The average Emirates airline ticket is $1500, compared to the average US airline ticket being less than $400. Middle class do not spend 5-10% of their after-tax income on an Emirates flight.
Yes, for a flight from Dubai to say NY. American airlines would charge you twice that.

Also, the concept of international and domestic is completely different from the US and just about every where else in the world. International could be Dubai to Doha and again you could get that flight for half the price for a similar distance in the US. Its mostly middle classed families on these flights. The thought that its just the wealthy on these flights is bullshit.


Edit:For shits and giggles I just priced dubai to doha. $230. Thats a kings randsom for "international" travel am I right??
 

Eridani

Member
The US middle class typically do not fly internationally (2/3 of Americans don't even have passports) or even much domestically.

The average Emirates airline ticket is $1500, compared to the average US airline ticket being less than $400. Middle class do not spend 5-10% of their after-tax income on an Emirates flight.

What a horribly American-centric post. International economy flights definitely are aimed at the middle class in a lot of places. It helps that tickets have become increasingly cheaper in the last couple of decades, thanks to the rise of low cost carriers and increased competition due to the rise of middle eastern carriers.

The cost of Emirates tickets in America is unfortunate, but it's mainly due to the fact that middle eastern airlines don't really care about it. They are mostly focused on becoming a hub for travel from Asia to Europe, and in those flights their tickets are regularly the cheapest option you can get - very far from luxury travel.

The fact that Americans don't travel is quite sad really, but I very much doubt it's because of the money. After all, international vacations are incredibly common in many European countries where people earn way less then the average american, and it's not like flights to South and Central America from the US cost that much more than, for example, flights to Turkey/Egypt from Europe (both formerly incredibly common vacation destinations for Europeans, although the recent political developments have hurt that a bit). Ironically, the US government's shitty worker rights are probably a much more important reason, since it's hard to travel without vacation time.
 

nampad

Member
I'll agree with that from my experiwnce, though of course I have not used every top 10 airline yet.
Just flew with Cathay, a top 4 airline, and they suck compared to Emirates.
Emirates had better leg space, entertainment system, electronic charging options, cheap wifi and offered better service (more refreshments etc.) in economy class.
 

numble

Member
yep. used to travel to china pretty frequently when i was younger. There was a period of time where there was direct flights from atlanta to shanghai which was great.


Korea Air also started doing direct flights to seoul from here on a380's and I could do the transfer that way.

But I had some credit with delta so in the end its best to suffer a bit lol. Never really had an issue though, especially these days when I have my ipad pro, vita, 3ds etc. Worst case scenario, some sleepy pills to last the dozen hour flight.

I've done both the Korea Air route and via Delta (but not through Atlanta). If you are in economy, the A380 is nice and the food is a bit better, but there's not that much more better service. Delta has a better movie selection and WiFi (there is an app you can download to stream their movie selection on your iPad for free).
 

Jeffrey

Member
What a horribly American-centric post. International economy flights definitely are aimed at the middle class in a lot of places. It helps that tickets have become increasingly cheaper in the last couple of decades, thanks to the rise of low cost carriers and increased competition due to the rise of middle eastern carriers.

The cost of Emirates tickets in America is unfortunate, but it's mainly due to the fact that middle eastern airlines don't really care about it. They are mostly focused on becoming a hub for travel from Asia to Europe, and in those flights their tickets are regularly the cheapest option you can get - very far from luxury travel.

The fact that Americans don't travel is quite sad really, but I very much doubt it's because of the money. After all, international vacations are incredibly common in many European countries where people earn way less then the average american, and it's not like flights to South and Central America from the US cost that much more than, for example, flights to Turkey/Egypt from Europe (both formerly incredibly common vacation destinations for Europeans, although the recent political developments have hurt that a bit). Ironically, the US government's shitty worker rights are probably a much more important reason, since it's hard to travel without vacation time.

To be fair, America is basically the size of a continent. I've been having a blast the past few years traveling around just in the country on roadtrips or cheap flights. Way cheaper too, tons of stuff to do and see.

I still want to visit Europe someday though. Heading to japan for the first time later, that should be fun.


I've done both the Korea Air route and via Delta (but not through Atlanta). If you are in economy, the A380 is nice and the food is a bit better, but there's not that much more better service. Delta has a better movie selection and WiFi (there is an app you can download to stream their movie selection on your iPad for free).

Has technology figured out how to wifi over the pacific ocean yet? It's been 4 years since i've flown international.
 

ErichWK

Member
I flew to japan 3 times. Twice with Singapore air. And once with American airlines. Can you take a guess which flight was fucking miserable and awful and uncomfortable and where I wanted to kill myself after hour 4?
 

numble

Member
Yes, for a flight from Dubai to say NY. American airlines would charge you twice that.

Also, the concept of international and domestic is completely different from the US and just about every where else in the world. International could be Dubai to Doha and again you could get that flight for half the price for a similar distance in the US. Its mostly middle classed families on these flights. The thought that its just the wealthy on these flights is bullshit.


For shits and giggles I just priced dubai to doha. $230. Thats a kings randsom for "international" travel am I right??

You priced their shortest flight for shits and giggles? I would indeed say that $230 for a 1 hour flight is expensive. In the US, a 5 hour flight from New York to Los Angeles can be found for less than $150.

What a horribly American-centric post. International economy flights definitely are aimed at the middle class in a lot of places. It helps that tickets have become increasingly cheaper in the last couple of decades, thanks to the rise of low cost carriers and increased competition due to the rise of middle eastern carriers.

The cost of Emirates tickets in America is unfortunate, but it's mainly due to the fact that middle eastern airlines don't really care about it. They are mostly focused on becoming a hub for travel from Asia to Europe, and in those flights their tickets are regularly the cheapest option you can get - very far from luxury travel.

The fact that Americans don't travel is quite sad really, but I very much doubt it's because of the money. After all, international vacations are incredibly common in many European countries where people earn way less then the average american, and it's not like flights to South and Central America from the US cost that much more than, for example, flights to Turkey/Egypt from Europe (both formerly incredibly common vacation destinations for Europeans, although the recent political developments have hurt that a bit). Ironically, the US government's shitty worker rights are probably a much more important reason, since it's hard to travel without vacation time.
American-centric because he was the one that compared it to the American middle class? Of course it should be American-centric if he wanted to compare to the American middle class.

International vacations are common in European countries because European countries are smaller than US states. Americans visit other states.

It simply is not common for most people to travel on Emirates and I do not think it is a stretch to say that most middle class would indeed find it to be a luxury.
 

Eridani

Member
To be fair, America is basically the size of a continent. I've been having a blast the past few years traveling around just in the country on roadtrips or cheap flights. Way cheaper too, tons of stuff to do and see.

I still want to visit Europe someday though. Heading to japan for the first time later, that should be fun.

That's also a reason, yeah. So much cool things to see in the US that you could essentially spend your entire life just traveling around it. US does have cheap international flights too though. As mentioned, several South and Central American countries can be visited for a very low cost and are incredibly cheap once you get there. Flights to Europe can also be gotten incredibly cheaply if you manage to find a good deal. I believe Icelandair and especially Norwegian have been offering some incredible deals lately.
 
Yes, for a flight from Dubai to say NY. American airlines would charge you twice that.

Also, the concept of international and domestic is completely different from the US and just about every where else in the world. International could be Dubai to Doha and again you could get that flight for half the price for a similar distance in the US. Its mostly middle classed families on these flights. The thought that its just the wealthy on these flights is bullshit.


Edit:For shits and giggles I just priced dubai to doha. $230. Thats a kings randsom for "international" travel am I right??

A flight from Dubai to Doha is 238 miles. Thats less than a 4 hour drive and since the US infrastructure is pretty decent compared to the middle east most Americans would make that drive instead of taking a flight as its quicker and cheaper. That trip doesnt even use a full tank of gas!

You can get US flights for 400 miles for about $230 bucks or less easily. It certainly wouldnt be double the price unless you are flying from obscure airport to obscure airport.

And just for shits and giggles i googled flights through the middle east from Atlanta and at a minimum Qatar Airways was 300 bucks more expensive than US airlines for economy class.
 

Jeels

Member
I flew to japan 3 times. Twice with Singapore air. And once with American airlines. Can you take a guess which flight was fucking miserable and awful and uncomfortable and where I wanted to kill myself after hour 4?

What was the price difference between the two?
 

rambis

Banned
You priced their shortest flight for shits and giggles? I would indeed say that $230 for a 1 hour flight is expensive. In the US, a 5 hour flight from New York to Los Angeles can be found for less than $150.


American-centric because he was the one that compared it to the American middle class? Of course it should be American-centric if he wanted to compare to the American middle class.

International vacations are common in European countries because European countries are smaller than US states. Americans visit other states.

It simply is not common for most people to travel on Emirates and I do not think it is a stretch to say that most middle class would indeed find it to be a luxury.
Its an "international" flight, why not? Thats same day round trip pricing as well. In the US, one way from Atl to Miami is like $300.

I havent said anything about Americas middle class. Why do you think it would be relevant in this discussion?

And Emirates gets as many travelers as every other airline. Seriously, stop making up shit.

A flight from Dubai to Doha is 238 miles. Thats less than a 4 hour drive and since the US infrastructure is pretty decent compared to the middle east most Americans would make that drive instead of taking a flight as its quicker and cheaper. That trip doesnt even use a full tank of gas!

You can get US flights for 400 miles for about $230 bucks or less easily. It certainly wouldnt be double the price unless you are flying from obscure airport to obscure airport.

And just for shits and giggles i googled flights through the middle east from Atlanta and at a minimum Qatar Airways was 300 bucks more expensive than US airlines for economy class.
Yes, from Atlanta. IE an American orgin flight. Way to miss the point??

Also where in the middle east? And did you mean to look for Emirates?
 

Eridani

Member
You priced their shortest flight for shits and giggles? I would indeed say that $230 for a 1 hour flight is expensive. In the US, a 5 hour flight from New York to Los Angeles can be found for less than $150.


American-centric because he was the one that compared it to the American middle class? Of course it should be American-centric if he wanted to compare to the American middle class.

International vacations are common in European countries because European countries are smaller than US states. Americans visit other states.

It simply is not common for most people to travel on Emirates and I do not think it is a stretch to say that most middle class would indeed find it to be a luxury.

Maybe I just suck at reading, but I don't see where his post mentions the american middle class. He mentions US airlines, but it's not like they are confined to americans, and your original post called the entire airlines "luxury good", despite the fact that they made travel more affordable for Europeans in a lot of cases.

From a worldwide perspective, Emirates economy flights are certainly not luxury, when they are often one of the cheapest options available.
 
Its an "international" flight, why not? Thats same day round trip pricing as well. In the US, one way from Atl to Miami is like $300.

Hm? I've been seeing tickets for as low as $49 one way from ATL to MIA. And that's on American and Frontier. Which I do admit is really shocking.

Dallas to Miami, I'm seeing under $100 on airlines like United ($57 to be exact). And anywhere from 100-150 on American/Delta.

flights.google.com is great.
 

numble

Member
Its an "international" flight, why not? Thats same day round trip pricing as well. In the US, one way from Atl to Miami is like $300.
A one way flight from Atlanta to Miami is less than $100 on Frontier Airlines or American Airlines.

I havent said anything about Americas middle class. Why do you think it would be relevant in this discussion?

rambis said:
Its mostly the same middle class that'd you see in the US on these flights.

Seriously, stop making up shit.
 
Its an "international" flight, why not? Thats same day round trip pricing as well. In the US, one way from Atl to Miami is like $300.

I havent said anything about Americas middle class. Why do you think it would be relevant in this discussion?

And Emirates gets as many travelers as every other airline. Seriously, stop making up shit.


Yes, from Atlanta. IE an American orgin flight. Way to miss the point??

Also where in the middle east? And did you mean to look for Emirates?

Atlanta to Miami roundtrip can be had for 125 bucks right now on a regular airline, I know because i just took the flight last month. Taking a budget airline and you can make the trip for less than a $100.

Oh and Atlanta to Miami is more than double the distance of Dubai to Doha.
 

rambis

Banned
Hm? I've been seeing tickets for as low as $49 one way from ATL to MIA. And that's on American and Frontier. Which I do admit is really shocking.

Dallas to Miami, I'm seeing under $100 on airlines like United ($57 to be exact). And anywhere from 100-150 on American/Delta.
Searching todays prices. Very important.

Cheapest today one way is $231 on delta. Frontier is starting at $270.

Im seraching google by the way.


Atlanta to Dubai, cheapest by far is Qatar airways at 980. Closest US carrier is 1200.
 
Searching todays prices. Very important.

Cheapest today one way is $231 on delta. Frontier is starting at $270.

Same day flight? Why is that critically important? This isn't common at all! Everyone knows you will pay a lot more for a last minute trip because the flight is likely already full. Less seats to go around.

Edit: Even then, I'm still seeing $160 on Frontier and American for a flight today to Miami from ATL.
 

rambis

Banned
Same day flight? Why is that critically important? This isn't common at all! Everyone knows you will pay a lot more for a last minute trip because the flight is likely already full. Less seats to go around.
Because all the flights I am pricing are same day. Its important for comparision.

Edit: Atl to Mia.

Yes origin city matters domestically.
 

numble

Member
Maybe I just suck at reading, but I don't see where his post mentions the american middle class. He mentions US airlines, but it's not like they are confined to americans, and your original post called the entire airlines "luxury good", despite the fact that they made travel more affordable for Europeans in a lot of cases.

From a worldwide perspective, Emirates economy flights are certainly not luxury, when they are often one of the cheapest options available.

He said:
Its mostly the same middle class that'd you see in the US on these flights.

The cheapest available option does not mean it is not a luxury. I don't think I need to explain the logic. Many such situations where the cheapest option is still a luxury.
 

rambis

Banned
He said:


The cheapest available option does not mean it is not a luxury. I don't think I need to explain the logic. Many such situations where the cheapest option is still a luxury.
To clarify somce it seems to be too hard.

Most of the people on these flights are middle classed. The same you would see in the US.
 
Searching todays prices. Very important.

Cheapest today one way is $231 on delta. Frontier is starting at $270.

Im seraching google by the way.


Atlanta to Dubai, cheapest by far is Qatar airways at 980. Closest US carrier is 1200.

Why would you be pricing same day flights, everyone knows those prices are jacked up in the US. The only people who would be in the market for those are people travelling for business, not the average middle class person you keep bringing up.

You are purposely skewing the comparison by using prices that are extremely rare to pay.
 
This is a really good question and one that is rarely asked, and people dismissively say "because they want to screw us!" But then, why can't international airlines come in and compete with American airline companies, which would then cause the US Airlines, JetBlues, and others, to start competing...? Well, because they're not allowed to be law.

Non-American airline companies cannot provide domestic flights in the US because of 'cabotage' restrictions, an ancient word, but the law of the land. It's a protectionist law but it also prevents a company like Emirates from coming in and flying vastly cheaper flights using vastly lesser paid employees, getting gas subsidies from the UAE, and paying no corporate taxes in the UAE. If Emirates came in and competed directly with Delta, Delta would be put out of business.

But beyond that, the flying experience is further made worse in the US By a few major factors:

  • There is very little competition between country-wide air travel. You have 3 major country-wide airlines, and then mostly only regional airlines, but because of individual contracts at specific airports, one airline will "dominate" an airport and consider it their "hub."
  • Non-US airlines have wages far below US airlines, which are protected by federal laws and importantly a very strong Airline employees union.
  • While Singapore or Emirates can hire only beautiful, twenty-something women, and mandate that they wear a specific outfit, wear certain makeup, and act a certain way, American airline companies are forbidden from discrimination in hiring along any race, sex, age, or gender lines. Singapore Air only hires beautiful young women for customer-facing positions who are only temporary, contract employees and only the best of the best (or most beautiful) get their contracts renewed.
  • None of the US passenger flight companies are state owned or state subsidized, which isn't the case for dozens of major airlines that they compete against.
  • Airline jobs are high-paying in the US and are considered "career" jobs. THis is a good thing for airline employees, but it can have mixed results for passengers, who may feel like trips to the airport are more like trips to the DMV... Airlines in other countries that generally perform highly in these comparisons are aggressive with hiring and firing, employ many workers on contractual basis, and have wages well below your average American airline employee lifer... Who may be in the industry for decades, have seniority over routes, and may not be as motivated as a young person competing for a contract. This isn't the case for all European airline companies, though it specifically is the case for Cathay, Singapore, Emirates, and many other high performing airlines.
  • Geography and population density play a significant role in European air travel, and airlines also have to compete with a functioning rail system between many large cities. This drives ticket prices down. Further, there isn't government & airline collusion in Europe to limit flight numbers like there is in the US. I don't know if you remember how air travel used to be, but in the 1990s, you'd regularly fly in empty 747s in long trips... This is virtually eliminated now, and if you have an empty seat next to you on a flight, it's considered a miracle. Europe hasn't adopted this model as quickly. This leads to more flights that need seats filled at lower costs in Europe.
Thanks for this. Wish I read it before posting above.

However, I read several reports about pilots and attendants working with US carriers being very underpaid.
 

rambis

Banned
Why would you be pricing same day flights, everyone knows those prices are jacked up in the US. The only people who would be in the market for those are people travelling for business, not the average middle class person you keep bringing up.

This is purposely skewing the comparison.
US prices being jacked up is the entire point of this conversation lmao.
 

twdnewh_k

Member
Although I live in the UAE, i've never flown with Emirates, hope I can change that someday.

The only complaint I seem to hear is that their rewards program is not so great.
 
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