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[Panajev2001a]

I'll try to make it simple as possible so for the EE guys listening, please excuse some inaccuracies that are in this post due to the goal of simplicity.

Say we have our final PSP chipset (let's not even think about newer screens as it will make the problem I'll present you even worse).

Say it consumes all the battery while operating at full power in X hours.

Say that over the course of PSP's life (say a year later, when Sony's 65 nm manufacturing process becomes available) they decide to cut manufacturing costs by for example shrinking the SoC (System on a Chip) using newer 65 nm technology (PSP will use 90 nm technology initially).

They are not adding any new logic, they are not increasing the frequency of the chip.

Power consumption should go down.

If power consumption goes down, battery life goes up.

What do you do ?

Do you call the new model the PSP SP ? Do you pack it with a smaller battery to make the battery life the same ? Do you just launch it on the market without really re-launching it GBA SP style ?

I think the last option is the path they will choose.

The battery life increase will be there, but it will not be a huge and dramatic increase as the main power suckers are the UMD drive and the LCD screen.

Think about it as the "+" models of PlayStation 2, they were not marked up in MSRP compared to older PlayStation 2 consoles.

If they change the screen to a OLED based model then you will see it called PSP SP.

The battery life increase would be significant and the contrast level and black quality of the screen will be a big jump forward.

OLED >> TFT LCD in terms of quality.

Edit:

That sounds like a marketing dilemma, not an engineering dilemma to me.

Well, I forgot one more part to the question.

Should you increase the power consumption artificially to get both smaller chips, but same power consumption levels and avoid the marketing dilemma ?



What do you think ?

 

[Deg]

Wait for PSP 2.

 

[6.8]

That sounds like a marketing dilemma, not an engineering dilemma to me.

 

[Panajev2001a]

That sounds like a marketing dilemma, not an engineering dilemma to me.

Well, I forgot one more part to the question.

Should you increase the power consumption artificially to get both smaller chips, but same power consumption levels and avoid the marketing dilemma ?

 

[TheGreenGiant]

anything less than the holy grail and this round goes to NINTENDO.

 

[garrickk]

OLED >> TFT LCD in terms of quality.

What do you think ?

Are you certain of that? TFT has been developed for years and they've improved contrast and response times dramatically. I haven't read anything about responsiveness of the OLED pixels. They might generate their own colored photons, but I doubt that first or second generation OLEDs will be better than TFT at everything, namely, for gaming purposes, responsiveness.

In other words, the OLED displays may blur fast motion more than a high-powered, modern TFT. This is just speculation, but I haven't read anything about OLED displays regarding this. I don't know how quickly the quantum pump of photons can be switched off for each pixel.

 

[Panajev2001a]

anything less than the holy grail and this round goes to NINTENDO.

So you mean that Torino's Holy Shroud will not do the trick, will it ?

 

[megateto]

I'm pretty sure they'll go the same route the went with the PS2. Only people interested can tell the differences between a V3, V7 or V9.

They don't want to confuse people, I think.

 

[garrickk]

So you mean that Torino's Holy Shroud will not do the trick, will it ?

In regards to a cataclysm, OLD TESTAMENT >>>>>>>>> NEW TESTAMENT.

Edit: I don't know the bible. I guess the "Holy Shroud" is NT as well. I give a large advantage back to the grail.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Are you certain of that? TFT has been developed for years and they've improved contrast and response times dramatically. I haven't read anything about responsiveness of the OLED pixels. They might generate their own colored photons, but I doubt that first or second generation OLEDs will be better than TFT at everything, namely, for gaming purposes, responsiveness.

In other words, the OLED displays may blur fast motion more than a high-powered, modern TFT. This is just speculation, but I haven't read anything about OLED displays regarding this. I don't know how quickly the quantum pump of photons can be switched off for each pixel.

The only problem so far with OLED is screen life, but not Image Quality.

As far as TVs are concerned, no matter that we are at the 7th generation of LCD devices or what... CRT TVs are still the best in regards to constrast and black levels.

In fact the technology with most promise in the TV field is CNT (Carbon Nano-Tube) based FED (Field Emittive Display) devices which are basically very close to normal CRT based TVs. Instead of having a big electron cannon and a nice magnet to steer the electrons around, you have tons of small nano-cannons like one or more nano-cannons per pixel (group of phosphores).

You can achieve low screen depth and large screen sizes at a lower cost than LCD and Plasma and without the buirn-in problems and constrast and black level issues that other technologies suffer from.

 

[Deg]

Are you certain of that? TFT has been developed for years and they've improved contrast and response times dramatically. I haven't read anything about responsiveness of the OLED pixels. They might generate their own colored photons, but I doubt that first or second generation OLEDs will be better than TFT at everything, namely, for gaming purposes, responsiveness.

In other words, the OLED displays may blur fast motion more than a high-powered, modern TFT. This is just speculation, but I haven't read anything about OLED displays regarding this. I don't know how quickly the quantum pump of photons can be switched off for each pixel.

LCD tech had advanced rapidly recently but its still not perfect. You cant carry around CRT's sadly for many reasons The one on PSP obviously wont be as good as actual tv's and the black, grey and white levels arent going to be accurate of course.

 

[garrickk]

The only problem so far with OLED is screen life, but not Image Quality.

As far as TVs are concerned, no matter that we are at the 7th generation of LCD devices or what... CRT TVs are still the best in regards to constrast and black levels.

In fact the technology with most promise in the TV field is CNT based FED devices which are basically very close to normal CRT based TVs. Instead of having a big cannon and a magnet to steer the electrons, you have tons of small cannos like one or more nano-cannons per pixel (group of phosphores).

I hope you're right. I look forward to all new, emerging display technologies.

 

[xsarien]

Do you call the new model the PSP SP ? Do you pack it with a smaller battery to make the battery life the same ? Do you just launch it on the market without really re-launching it GBA SP style ?

The "Tough Titties" approach:

You pass the buck completely and tell users of the older model that it's just the "nature" of the battery technology. A lie? Sure, but who's going to call them on it? They'll just say "Oh, you've been draining the thing dry before charging it, shame on you!" And neither side can prove that they're right.

 

[TheGreenGiant]

In fact the technology with most promise in the TV field is CNT based FED devices which are basically very close to normal CRT based TVs. Instead of having a big cannon and a magnet to steer the electrons, you have tons of small cannos like one or more nano-cannons per pixel (group of phosphores).

what are you? a tv repair man?

 

[Deg]

Some plasmas have manged to get extremely close to CRt's in black levels. They are better than new LCD's in that respect but they still weigh a ton

 

[Panajev2001a]

what are you? a tv repair man?

No, I try to follow Klee's posts .

Plus you do this kind of stuff in any early physics class (the concept behind a CRT TV) when you get to electricity and magnetism.

 

[Kobun Heat]

I'm going to go with the PSPSP idea. If you're dramatically improving the battery life/screen/whatever, give it a cosmetic overhaul too and sell more of them to people who already have one.

 

[Panajev2001a]

I'm going to go with the PSPSP idea. If you're dramatically improving the battery life/screen/whatever, give it a cosmetic overhaul too and sell more of them to people who already have one.

PSP SP when you change the screen.

If you only improove the battery life by 1-2 hours even I do not think ti warrants a re-release with an increased MSRP like Nintendo did with the GBA SP.

A new screen, OLED based, would do the trick however IMHO.

 

[jarrod]

Didn't Kaz mention that PSP will come in a variety of models over the years? There's no doubt well get at least one revision in the next five years, just like PSone or GBA SP.

 

[deadhorse32]

Technical change won't cut it pana you need a redesign to sell it at an increased MSRP.

PS2/Xbox have changed internally but you don't see different price. If Sony were to release the PSTwo, it's another piece of hardware and thus another price.

 

[Crazymoogle]

In other words, the OLED displays may blur fast motion more than a high-powered, modern TFT. This is just speculation, but I haven't read anything about OLED displays regarding this. I don't know how quickly the quantum pump of photons can be switched off for each pixel.

You haven't heard much about responsiveness because it hasn't been an issue. The few trade show OLED TVs in existence have been reported to be fine in that regard. Hell, almost every article I can find using Google touts OLED refresh as being at least 3x faster than the best LCD has to offer.

As for Pana's question, there is market precedence - it's called the Game Boy Pocket. Expect Sony to release several 'hidden' revs for cost reasons, and then releasing their PSP ver2 when it makes the most sense to do so in terms of marketing strategy. Expect Sony to also consider the same color strategy as with the PS2 - marketing more than one only when the situation calls for it.

 

[akascream]

So the PSP's "dilema" is that it could have a better screen and battery life down the line. Interesting thread all around.

 

[D2M15]

I'm going to go with the PSPSP idea.

PSP PS, surely.

 

[P90]

anything less than the holy grail and this round goes to NINTENDO.

heck, more than the holy grail

 

[mr2mike]

"The only problem so far with OLED is screen life, but not Image Quality."

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather have a screen that's note quite perfect, but more than good enough, instead of having an asweome screen that goes crackpot after awhile. I'
ll probably use my PSP for quite a few years. so screw you OLED

Anyway, about the main idea behind this post. I'd think sony would keep quiet about it for awhile, with only the informed knowing about what model numbers were what, and then sony would quietly change the spec sheet in the owner's manual, or just use the good ol' subject to change' line.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Technical change won't cut it pana you need a redesign to sell it at an increased MSRP.

You change the screen with an OLED, you look at some nice games playing and you will gladly pay more money.

Still, I'd think they would also make a relatively small aestetic change just to be able to better justify the re-release GBA SP style.

 

[Defensor]

Wait for it....

PSP Dual Shock Edition w/ a second analog stick and force feedback built in.

 

[gblues]

I say you just rev the model number (PSP-001 => PSP-002), then keep selling it at the same price without making it public. Reduced size = reduced manufacturing cost, which means your profit margin grows if the price stays the same.

I really don't think you'd see a significant increase in battery life. Maybe 30 minutes, which could as easily be attributed to poor charging habits or normal wear/tear of the battery and would not really be noticed unless someone went looking for it. And even if that's the case, you now have a grassroots-driven market for people going out and buying the PSP-002.

So let's see:

- Increased profit margin
- Few will notice any improvements to the battery life
- The people who will notice are the gaming geeks who own like 5 GBA SPs already, and will buy a PSP-002 just to be l33t.
- And of course they will pimp it to their friends ("go get the 002 model, the battery lasts teh longer!")
- Which means Sony doesn't have to spend money on a marketing campaign.

A WINNAR IS TEH SONY

Nathan

 

[jarrod]

Wait for it....

PSP Dual Shock Edition w/ a second analog stick and force feedback built in.

I want it!!

 

[Kobun Heat]

Wait for it....

PSP Dual Shock Edition w/ a second analog stick and force feedback built in.

So it will vibrate right out of your hands and crash into the floor, and you have to buy another? I can't believe Sony didn't think of that.

 

[drohne]

dunno if it'd be wise for sony to look at the gba sp and assume they can sell the psp twice, often twice to the same user. the gba sp only worked because there was something so manifestly wrong with the original gba. if there's something comparably wrong with the psp, at its inevitably high price point, it'll crash and burn to begin with.

battery life issues can probably be addressed with...a new battery. i suppose the newer models will still be better, but as many have said, i wouldn't expect this to be a major public issue.

personally i'm holding off on a psp until the region lockout for games is circumvented. assuming there is one. inevitably scea will reject or publishers will neglect games i desperately want, and owning two systems would be silly with a portable.

 

[Panajev2001a]

personally i'm holding off on a psp until the region lockout for games is circumvented. assuming there is one.

...

 

[drohne]

do you know something i don't, or do you just object to my assumption?

 

[jarrod]

I'd say an OLED screen would be a significant enough enhancement, not only for screen quality but battery usage more importantly. Throw on a 2nd analog nub and I'm sold.

 

[robertsan21]

quick question.

will the version that we will be able to buy on the release date of PSP have the Screen that sony had on PSP at E3 this year ?

or will they use a diffrent Screen?

 

[drohne]

sony won't put a second analog nub for the psp, just as nintendo didn't put another couple face buttons on the sp. splitting the userbase would be senseless.

 

[Phoenix]

Depends on whether or not you are shrinking the mainboard at the same time. If you aren't - you will lilely use the same battery as you've got 10 billion of them sitting in warehouses. You take whatever add in feature would be great to pack in for your newly acquired mainboard space/battery and make it a PSP SE (special edition) and let marketing determine what to do about the pricing.

Not really an engineering problem per say because you can keep the battery exactly the same and have no ill effects from that.

 

[jarrod]

sony won't put a second analog nub for the psp, just as nintendo didn't put another couple face buttons on the sp. splitting the userbase would be senseless.

Why not... they did for PlayStation? Well anyway, I want a 2nd analog regardless, how else am I suppossed to play Ape Escape PSP? :/

 

[FitzOfRage]

So the PSP's "dilema" is that it could have a better screen and battery life down the line. Interesting thread all around.

Yeah, what kind of crap is that.

Anyway, just in terms of keeping the product fresh in people's minds, I think they will have to introduce at least some sort of cosmetic changes, and they're not going to be quiet about it. Now they may or may not change the MSRP (I guess it will depend on how many changes they pool together), but I think if they really want to compete with not only Nintendo, but also Apple and other handheld devices, they have to keep refining the system.

Why not... they did for PlayStation? Well anyway, I want a 2nd analog regardless, how else am I suppossed to play Ape Escape PSP? :/

Well there's a bit of a difference since obviously it's a lot easier to swap out a controller on a console than on a handheld which is the controller.

 

[drohne]

well, you could buy a dual shock and use it on your old playstation. that's a trivial purchase. i don't think a second psp will ever be a trivial purchase.

and in a roundabout way the missing second analog will be a good thing for ape escape psp -- they can't just port one of the console games.

 

[jarrod]

and in a roundabout way the missing second analog will be a good thing for ape escape psp -- they can't just port one of the console games.

Funny enough, that was part of Nintendo's justification for leaving the XY buttons off GBA, to try and hinder direct SNES ports.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

i think you're all nuts, that's what i think.

 

[Panajev2001a]

do you know something i don't, or do you just object to my assumption?

boh... .

 

[HyperionX]

I suspect that the PSP won't be around long enough for this to be an issue, but that's just me.