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[xexex]

Hollywood is the name of ATI's graphics processor / GPU / VPU for the Nintendo Revolution

I wonder how the ATI Hollywood chip compares to the ARTX-designed Flipper (Flipper was designed from 1998 to 2000 *before* ATI bought ARTX) that is basicly the heart of Gamecube's graphics.... and also, I wonder how ATI's Hollywood chip for Revolution compares to other ATI VPUs like:

*R420 | R480 (in current Radeon cards)
*the upcoming R520 aka Fudo (SM 3.0 tricked out R300 core)
*the totally new Xenon | Xbox Next VPU (R500 or R5XX) which is based on a new architecture, the never-seen R400.
*the R600 for PCs, which should have SM 4.0 support, is based on Xenon |Xbox Next R500 | R5XX architecture, but will be even more advanced given the timeframe it is coming out in, probably after the new Xbox, and it will cost more.


Finally, after 3 years of knowing that ATI was working on the graphics processor for the next-gen Nintendo console, the thing has a name.

HOLLYWOOD

Revolution's technological heart, a processing chip developed with IBM and code-named "Broadway," and a graphics chip set from ATI code-named "Hollywood," are being designed to deliver next generation experiences hopefully on par with its competitors.

"We're excited to be developing the graphics chip set for Revolution, which continues our longstanding relationship with Nintendo," says Dave Orton, ATI Technologies Inc.'s president and chief executive officer. "As the leading graphics provider, ATI is committed to delivering exceptional visual performance that enables consumers to interact with new and visually compelling digital worlds. ATI is proud to support Nintendo's innovative contributions to gaming."

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3138770

 

[GashPrex]

I am amazed IBM is producing the cpu for all 3 next gen consoles. They must have been offering some sweet deals.

As for the GPU - Nintendo is promising something very different so I would assume the same goes for the GPU. Maybe it will resemble very little of the other cards.

 

[Doc Holliday]

There must some hardcore ironclad NDA's and contracts in place. I mean what if MS goes to ati and whispers, "hey make it faster than whatever Nintendo is getting"...or vice versa . :lol

 

[xexex]

There must some hardcore ironclad NDA's and contracts in place. I mean what if MS goes to ati and whispers, "hey make it faster than whatever Nintendo is getting"...or vice versa . :lol

:lol yeah I know, that's kinda funny to thinkabout

 

[truesayian]

or nintendo could say... give us whatever microsoft gets plus 8 pipes... and double the ram.

 

[TheDiave]

And watch, Nintendo's little tagline for the Revolution will be...

"It's showtime!"

What would rock was if they had the aces up their sleeves to slap Sony and M$ with 15 lbs of limp dick. Then the tagline could be...

"CUT!"

 

[SomeDude]

More than likely it will be nowhere near as powerful as MS's and Sony's chips.

 

[Hajaz]

its gota be the same chip as xenon is getting. if not the same console

 

[Doc Holliday]

More than likely it will be nowhere near as powerful as MS's and Sony's chips.

Why would that be the case? All of nintendo's past consoles have been on par techwise with the competing consoles..psp not included of course hehe.

 

[soundwave05]

It's probably going to be about as powerful as XBox 2 I would think. Maybe better in some areas, not quite as good in others.

But ATi has already said the development budget on both the XBox 2 GPU and Revolution GPU is the same budget, so chances are the GPU's at least are very similar in raw power.

Since MS is launching ahead of Nintendo, Nintendo should also get the last look at the XBox 2 chipset and see if they want to modify anything on their own chipset.

But I think it'll be comparable more or less.

 

[CrimsonSkies]

But ATi has already said the development budget on both the XBox 2 GPU and Revolution GPU is the same budget

When did they say this?

 

[UltraMagnanimous]

Revolution may be the 'PS2' of the next generation in so far as the performance goes relative to the others.

Noticeable but not a huge disadvantage. Then again, we could be massively surprised, IBM and ATI are making the competing chips to a budget which may well be in Rev's balllpark.

 

[soundwave05]

When did they say this?

From a financial briefing a few weeks or months ago. It showed numbers for what they were getting for the Nintendo deal and the Microsoft one, the numbers were both the same.

Maybe someone could fish out the link.

 

[SomeDude]

Why would that be the case? All of nintendo's past consoles have been on par techwise with the competing consoles..psp not included of course hehe.

Iwata and Nintendo Pr people are always saying how much more important innovation is than just having powerful hardware.

 

[GDGF]

Iwata and Nintendo Pr people are always saying how much more important innovation is than just having powerful hardware.

And they also said that hardware wise they would match their competitors.

 

[gofreak]

But ATi has already said the development budget on both the XBox 2 GPU and Revolution GPU is the same budget, so chances are the GPU's at least are very similar in raw power.

This would certainly make things more interesting, if true. Although R&D is only one factor, there's also manufacturing cost to consider.

I expect the chip to be quite powerful, to offer a great price/performance ratio.

Iwata and Nintendo Pr people are always saying how much more important innovation is than just having powerful hardware.

Just is the keyword. Nintendo isn't saying these are mutually exclusive goals. You certainly won't see anything like the DS/PSP tech gap!

 

[soundwave05]

Plus you have to remember Revolution is likely coming out 6-9 months after the XBox 2.

This could give them an edge in having slightly newer tech or the same level of tech for a slightly cheaper price.

Also I think Revolution will be a $299.99 system, not $199.99. That really didn't help them with the GameCube.

 

[UltraMagnanimous]

Iwata and Nintendo Pr people are always saying how much more important innovation is than just having powerful hardware.

We might just get innovation AND raw power. It would be great PR to be able to say "Revolution, while just as powerful as PS3 and XB2, has all these innovative features as well".

However, as I wrote just above, I think Revoution will be less powerful, but not as much as people think.

 

[Hiro_Kunimi_80]

From a financial briefing a few weeks or months ago. It showed numbers for what they were getting for the Nintendo deal and the Microsoft one, the numbers were both the same.

Maybe someone could fish out the link.

never saw that..

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

Iwata and Nintendo Pr people are always saying how much more important innovation is than just having powerful hardware.

Well, MS PR people are always saying how it's all about the games and having a powerful hardware is not that important, and I'm pretty sure Xbox 2 will be a really powerful system.

They (Nintendo) have IBM making the CPU and ATI making N5's GPU, they have invested tons of money into this and the speculation is that they're releasing their system after MS'. Where is this "their system will be underpowered" coming from?


BTW, nice to see some new info about N5.

 

[jarrod]

Come on people. In terms of raw performance it's going to be...

PS3 > Rev > 360

...and we all know it. Technology timelines will dictate as much with 360 launching as much as year earlier than the comptition. Plus, when was the last time Nintendo showed up with a technologically lacking mainstream market console? SNES, N64 and GameCube might've had corners cut here and there, but they all stood up well against the competition regardless. I wouldn't expect any different this time around...after all, Microsoft's really the one who's diverging from their previous position into a "specs don't matter" stance.

 

[Crag Dweller]

Slightly off topic, are all three consoles going to have multi core cpu's next gen?

 

[SomeDude]

Well, in the past Nintendo has never taken heavy losses on hardware. I get the feeling that Revolution will have a bunch of weird/off the wall gadgets like DS. With the added fact that they are adding compatibility I would think they would cust cost in other areas.



I think it'll go something like this next gen: PS3>Xbox2>Revolution

 

[GDGF]

Well, in the past Nintendo has never taken heavy losses on hardware.

Nintendo said earlier (about the same time BC was originally announced) that they wouldn't be undercutting the competition in price when they launched the Revolution.
Ergo, they will have another 100 bucks or so more to spend on tech than they normally do.

 

[Mifune]

Releasing a console less powerful than one that has already been out for a year would be SUICIDE. There's no way Revolution won't be just as or more powerful than Xenon.

 

[SomeDude]

Releasing a console less powerful than one that has already been out for a year would be SUICIDE. There's no way Revolution won't be just as or more powerful than Xenon.

Unless your name is Nintendo...

 

[Smiles and Cries]

I still don't get how ATI and IBM can do this?

Sure different teams on each project but how do you be fair to all your clients in making sure they get the best out of what they paid for.

 

[jarrod]

Unless your name is Nintendo...

Because Nintendo has a history of doing this sort of thing?

 

[nubbe]

Nintendo has finally learned how to make code names to get attention

I think the console will be named “Cinema”

 

[SomeDude]

Becasue Nintendo's done this before?

Well they knew about the Psp's hardware...and they still decided to release a handheld about as powerful as a Nintendo 64.



Also the Xbox was more powerful than the GameCube.

 

[UltraMagnanimous]

I still don't get how ATI and IBM can do this?

Sure different teams on each project but how do you be fair to all your clients in making sure they get the best out of what they paid for.

Good question, I'd like to (but in likelyhood never) know the extent of crossover between the three teams and how much information and resources are shared, even if only on an ad-hoc basis. There can't all be hermetically sealed off from each other surely?

 

[Redbeard]

Based on nothing but my own precognizance, PS3>X2=Rev

 

[Mifune]

Unless your name is Nintendo...

Huh? Super NES was more powerful than the Genesis. The N64 had more horsepower than the PSX (albeit with a crippling cartridge medium). And the Gamecube bested the PS2 in terms of power.

They've never released a technologically inferior console to one that's already been on the shelves a while.

 

[GDGF]

Well they knew about the Psp's hardware...and they still decided to release a handheld about as powerful as a Nintendo 64.



Also the Xbox was more powerful than the GameCube.

NDS came to market before the PSP, though. And the GCN is more powerful than the PS2 (nintendo's original target)

 

[Pedigree Chum]

Huh? Super NES was more powerful than the Genesis. The N64 had more horsepower than the PSX (albeit with a crippling cartridge medium). And the Gamecube bested the PS2 in terms of power.

They've never released a technologically inferior console to one that's already been on the shelves a while.

The NGC -> PS2 comparison is questionable, MGS3, SH3, ZOE2 are games that I doubt NGC would be able to do perfectly.

 

[TTP]

I guess he's referring to

Xbox > GC
PSP > NDS
Lynx, GameGear > Game Boy

 

[UltraMagnanimous]

Lets just say they've released consoles with both weaknesses and strengths and leave it at that?

 

[gofreak]

It really comes down to how much Nintendo is willing to spend on each unit. The extra time over Xenon buys them some leeway, for sure, but it doesn't automatically mean it'll be more powerful. It's too early to call.

I will note, however, that this current gen the old maxim of "if you launch later, you will be more powerful" did hold for all 3 systems. Xbox came out last, and was the most powerful, GC in the middle, and PS2 earliest and the least powerful overall.

 

[xexex]

its gota be the same chip as xenon is getting. if not the same console

you couldn't be more wrong

Don't expect the graphics capabilities of future Nintendo and Microsoft products to be exactly the same, however, the ATI spokesman said. "Yes, we have different design teams working on them, with different requirements and different timetables," the spokesman said.

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1220430,00.asp

 

[SomeDude]

NDS came to market before the PSP, though. And the GCN is more powerful than the PS2 (nintendo's original target)

They still should have added more horsepower to the DS. You'll see the results of this mistake in coming years when the Psp takes more and more market share.


As for the GC and Ps2 comparisons...I'm not sure what the exact specs are, but don't each have there own pro's and con's?

 

[jarrod]

Well they knew about the Psp's hardware...and they still decided to release a handheld about as powerful as a Nintendo 64.

Nintendo's handheld design philosophies have always been fundamentally different from their consoles. You're comparing apples with oranges here, Nintendo handhelds have a history of being extreemly low cost that far predates DS.

Also the Xbox was more powerful than the GameCube.

But GameCube was year old technology that Nintendo sat on while driving down pricing and building up a launch portfolio. It's a good 8-10 months older than Xbox technology wise (which was itself essentially high end off the shelf parts slapped together last second), which should be about the same difference between Xenon and Revolution (this time reversed though obviously). If Revolution and Xenon were launching almost simultaneouly, I could definitely see the MS machine coming out on top but not with this schedule. No chance.

 

[UltraMagnanimous]

They still should have added more horsepower to the DS. You'll see the results of this mistake in coming years when the Psp takes more and more market share.

Nah, they're not in the exact same market, if indeed the DS is the third pillar, or a stop gap system, a better comparison is with the GBE - which we know absolutley nothing about.

 

[Smiles and Cries]

The NGC -> PS2 comparison is questionable, MGS3, SH3, ZOE2 are games that I doubt NGC would be able to do perfectly.

:lol

WTH is RE4?

Where have you people been?

Its not like this tech thing have not been beaten to death since NGC launch
and they still find it questionable...
:lol

 

[Spazbiohaz]

Ergo,

oooo

 

[GDGF]

As for the GC and Ps2 comparisons...I'm not sure what the exact specs are, but don't each have there own pro's and con's?

The PS2 kicks ass with particle effects, but you can tell on games that were programmed for both platforms that the GCN version pretty much invariably looks better. It's a more well rounded machine (and it should be, as it was released some time later)

Don't want to really get into this debate though. It'll turn this thread into a PS2 vs GCN spec war.

Just know that for the Revolution, Nintendo is spending alot more than they did for the Gamecube (and you will be spending alot more on a Revolution than you did on a Gamecube)

It wont be outclassed power wise by a machine coming out a full year before it's release.

 

[GDGF]

oooo

That's the first time i've ever used Ergo, actually

(I really dig the Architect character from the Matrix)

 

[jarrod]

The NGC -> PS2 comparison is questionable, MGS3, SH3, ZOE2 are games that I doubt NGC would be able to do perfectly.

That's true of any game designed around a particluar platform though. I doubt Xbox could do those games perfectly either, hell it choked on MGS2.

They still should have added more horsepower to the DS. You'll see the results of this mistake in coming years when the Psp takes more and more market share.

Different targets, this is a whole different discussion.

As for the GC and Ps2 comparisons...I'm not sure what the exact specs are, but don't each have there own pro's and con's?

All platforms this generation have their pros and cons, Xbox and Dreamcast included. Dreamcast actually has a better color combiner than Xbox or GC even. PS2 has the best raw fillrate, GC gets the best texturing passes, etc. Overall though, the food chain seems to be...

Xbox > GC > PS2 > DC

 

[xexex]

It's probably going to be about as powerful as XBox 2 I would think. Maybe better in some areas, not quite as good in others.

But ATi has already said the development budget on both the XBox 2 GPU and Revolution GPU is the same budget, so chances are the GPU's at least are very similar in raw power.

Since MS is launching ahead of Nintendo, Nintendo should also get the last look at the XBox 2 chipset and see if they want to modify anything on their own chipset.

But I think it'll be comparable more or less.

soundwave is a wise, logical person. good post. well said. I agree.

 

[gofreak]

It wont be outclassed power wise by a machine coming out a full year before it's release.

If Revolution tracks ps3, there won't be a year between its release and xenon's.

 

[xexex]

If Revolution tracks ps3, there won't be a year between its release and xenon's.

true. more like ~6 months.