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[VFXVeteran]

Well, reality had to surface eventually. For those individuals that would be hurt by this it's kind of poetic that it's coming from the same people who over the past few months they've been worshipping.

I'm glad someone else is speaking out. I'm tired of arguing with these Sony bozos.

 

[Explosive Zombie]

I'm glad someone else is speaking out. I'm tired of arguing with these Sony bozos.

You mean you're tired of getting dunked on so hard people are questioning how you're a vetted professional.

 

[bitbydeath]

That game is supposed to come out next year? Any source on that, because that doesn't even sound like the real name of the game, but just a place holder, we also only got minuscule snippet of "gameplay".

There's always the chance of it being pushed but look at the bottom left corner. ETA: 2021

 

[ResilientBanana]

So 12TF is going to be pumping out more triangles?

 

[Lethal01]

I'm glad someone else is speaking out. I'm tired of arguing with these Sony bozos.

Well that cuts it, you're no longer a veteran.

It's laughable how badly Op misinterpreted what was said but the fact that you ate it up make me wonder if you got vetted by showing of 10 years worth of donut models.

I wish I could say I expected better. But we are on a forum where we are 9 pages in and people still think the 768mb refers to streaming bandwidth.

 

[SF Kosmo]

I think the high speed SSDs are going to pay off less in scenarios like the Unreal demo where there's a linear streaming of content and more in broad quality of life stuff like being able to get into and out of games super fast, fast travel almost instantly, no waiting when you die, that kind of thing. I think once we have that, going back is going to be really hard.

At the start of a new gen it's natural to focus on graphical fidelity but that's not the only thing.

 

[//DEVIL//]

There's always the chance of it being pushed but look at the bottom left corner. ETA: 2021

I honestly wouldnt be surprised if the console didnt make it in 2020. Shouldnt be thr syste in production stage right now ? we are half way of july and there is nothing. Sony is being very secretive about the whole hardware is kinda strange.

Not saying the Xbox is in better position. but at least they are confident they are coming in 2020 and they had a protoype running in real time to some press since few months ago.

with playstation 5 ? there is nothing but 3d renders from their video.


Frankly speaking as a person who is buying both day one. I hope one of them get delayed till early 2021. in this economy, its going to be a very heavy hit on the wallet. I honestly already sold my 2080ti and using my lovely 1080ti and kept the money for both consoles on the side.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Well that cuts it, you're no longer a veteran.

It's laughable how badly Op misinterpreted what was said but the fact that you ate it up make me wonder if you got vetted by showing of 10 years worth of donut models.

I wish I could say I expected better.

Put it this way. Anything that uses UE5 on PC will run better than any platform. Let's vet that.

 

[bitbydeath]

I honestly wouldnt be surprised if the console didnt make it in 2020. Shouldnt be thr syste in production stage right now ? we are half way of july and there is nothing. Sony is being very secretive about the whole hardware is kinda strange.

Not saying the Xbox is in better position. but at least they are confident they are coming in 2020 and they had a protoype running in real time to some press since few months ago.

with playstation 5 ? there is nothing but 3d renders from their video.


Frankly speaking as a person who is buying both day one. I hope one of them get delayed till early 2021. in this economy, its going to be a very heavy hit on the wallet. I honestly already sold my 2080ti and using my lovely 1080ti and kept the money for both consoles on the side.

You must have missed this thread.

Sony began PS5 mass production in June and, under the latest plan, expects to assemble 5 million units by the end of September and another 5 million between October and December.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Put it this way. Anything that uses UE5 on PC will run better than any platform. Let's vet that.

Yeah, we're all very interested in vetting future events vs vetting something that already occurred. After all, when the wait and see game doesn't turn in your favor you can hope people forget the exact language you used or that you spoke at all! A goalpost shift in late December might not be as easily noticed!

 

[Lethal01]

Put it this way. Anything that uses UE5 on PC will run better than any platform. Let's vet that.

Let's put it this way, the claim made in the OP is idiotic and uninformed. What he showed is not proving anything in regards to the streaming requirement. How UE5 runs in the future is irrelevant to the fact that you are currently agreeing to nonsense. PC beaing better next yearwon't make you look any less silly.

You've shown that your word and your understanding is no better than a fanboy making a guess.

Shame.
We need to wait months to see how UE5 performs on PC but you've already vetted how blinded by bias you are today.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Why it's not running on XSX anyway? Or PC? So now we'll go back to them being bribed and a bunch of liars and use funny theories instead?

It will scale down to less capable platforms, no one needs to panic.

Well I can tell you it's not simply out of a technological partnership if that's what you're thinking. That might play a role in it but it's definitely not the only one. FWIW Epic's always done their demos on Sony systems btw, going all the way back to PS2.

So really this is just more of the same but it's also convenient in providing ammunition for online console spec debate (and some people who take that too far into warrior mode). We know it'll scale down that's for certain, but it doesn't mean much saying it'll scale down to, say, Series X when there's honestly no figures into what specific assets are being streamed in the demo during some of the segments, how often unique assets are coming in and getting jutted out, if compression range for all the assets is uniformily the same (if you have a texture that never goes beyond a certain LOD you can essentially just store and stream a low-level mip of it. That's one of the "scale down" aspects you might be referring to for other platforms but there's also no telling if that was done for this specific demo), etc.

 

[tryDEATH]

There's always the chance of it being pushed but look at the bottom left corner. ETA: 2021

Wow, I did not know that nor did it really come across that way in the show. They should have showed more then, because it was probably the most unexpected/interesting game in the showcase.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Well I can tell you it's not simply out of a technological partnership if that's what you're thinking. That might play a role in it but it's definitely not the only one. FWIW Epic's always done their demos on Sony systems btw, going all the way back to PS2.

So really this is just more of the same but it's also convenient in providing ammunition for online console spec debate (and some people who take that too far into warrior mode). We know it'll scale down that's for certain, but it doesn't mean much saying it'll scale down to, say, Series X when there's honestly no figures into what specific assets are being streamed in the demo during some of the segments, how often unique assets are coming in and getting jutted out, if compression range for all the assets is uniformily the same (if you have a texture that never goes beyond a certain LOD you can essentially just store and stream a low-level mip of it. That's one of the "scale down" aspects you might be referring to for other platforms but there's also no telling if that was done for this specific demo), etc.

More like frame budget, instead of 20 million polygons per frame it should scale down until it meets the capabilities of the system. If it fails then RAM should compensate, instead of just 0.76GB pool it should be around 5-10GB of RAM or much more.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

You know that is not true.

This whole debate has been going through the following loops:

1) Microsoft claims they have the best system for graphics the coming generation as the PS5 specs are released. This is also reinforced by every forum warrior out there. This analysis is more less only focused on Tflops.
2) Cerny's talk starts to disseminate and he claims that I/O will be a more important part of upgrading graphics the coming generation than what people think and spells out how much silicon Sony has dedicated in the PS5 to this.
3) Forum warriors laugh at Cerny as if he does not know what he is talking about since I/O does nothing according to them apart from faster load times.
4) UE5 demo is shown and TS says that I/O is key in making the demo as graphically rich as it is.
5) Slow realization that Cerny might (!) know what he is talking about rolls through the internet's underbelly.
6) MS starts to move their marketing from Tflops to Velocity Architecture etc - they seem to realize this as well.
7) Today the OP erroneously tries to state that the demo is not I/O limited in any way apart from requiring an SSD which both systems have. He reaches this conclusion by adding an apple to an orange and dividing it by pi (basically BS).

Questions still remain how much impact the I/O differences between the systems will have - both for third party and first party titles (personally I do not believe it will have an impact unless the game is designed to take advantage of it which most likely will be hard outside of first party titles). However, no one argues that UE5 will be able to run on a variety of systems but unless you chose not to believe TS the graphics in the demo will take some sort of hit on the XSX due to lower I/O capabilities.

How is any of this true?

1) The XVA was described in the Xbox Glossary page in March before the Cerny talk and the UE5 demo.

2) The XVA was a known discussion point for the Hotchips conference in August by at least the same time as the UE5 demo.

3) Phil spencer talked about the 100GB virtual memory partition and transfer I/O speeds from SSD at the speed of current gen memory in july of 2019.

"Phil Spencer: Thanks to their speed, developers can now use the SSD practically as virtual RAM. The SSD access times come close to the memory access times of the current generation of consoles. Of course, the OS must allow developers access that goes beyond that of a pure storage medium. But then we will see how the address space will increase immensely - comparable to the change from Win16 to Win32 or in some cases Win64.

Of course, the SSD will still be slower than the GDDR6 RAM that sits directly on top of the die. But the ability to directly supply data to the CPU and GPU via the SSD will enable game worlds to be created that will not only be richer, but also more seamless. Not only in terms of pure loading times, but also in terrain mapping. A graphic designer no longer has to worry about when GDDR6 ends and when the SSD starts. I like that Mark Cerny and his team at Sony are also investing in an SSD for the PlayStation 5 ..."

Phil Spencer: Das Mega-Interview zu Project Scarlett, PC Gaming und mehr

60 neue Spiele, eine neue Xbox-Konsole (Project Scarlett), Cloud-Streaming, neue Spiele-Abos und vieles mehr - Microsoft verkündete auf der E3 2019 jede Menge Neuheiten. Unser US-Korrespondent Roland Austinat setzte sich anschließend mit Phil Spencer zusammen, um mit Microsofts Spielechef tiefer...

www.pcgameshardware.de

4) MS has been touting these features as components of Directx12U since 2019.

5) In mid-March there were multiple various articles and breakdowns of the elements of the XVA in Eurogamer and other places... how could that be in response to Cerny's March 18th Road to Ps5 when the interviews took place prior to March 16th and were published then?


Not a single thing you said is true about MS' inflection. They have talked about these capabilities for a long time. No one listened then but its not that MS has changed focus whatsoever.

 

[Trueblakjedi]

At least I do not know. The key is that - assuming Cerny was truthful - that the dedicated hardware I/O allows for a bypassing of the kernel buffers straight into RAM (so VRAM on a console). The key latency in any system (albeit that consoles can make this much more streamlined than the PC platform) is from the kernel AFAIK.



This is true but as long as you need to run the I/O through the kernel (but to your point in can be much more bare-bone on a console so a key question here is just how bare-bone the software solution on the XSX is) it will add latency. This is from what I understand the heart of the matter.



Cerny's presentation was very much about latency as he talked about being able to transform the on-paper bandwidth of the SSD into practical bandwidth for the GPU. The first step is of course to ensure that all components have the correct bandwidth requirement but since latency is the key aspect to achieve the above, latency was at the core of his presentation. System latency is dominant when reading 100 of files into RAM continuously.

GPU work creation requires zero assistance from the CPU or other overhead.

 

[//DEVIL//]

You must have missed this thread.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I didn't. but that is someone from bloomerg reported this. who could be wrong ( which is not the first time )

Either way, I am buying them both days one. Hell i even sold my PS4 pro because i want to play the latest games on PS5 so I sold it before it goes down on value. my PC is powerful enough to hold me till next gen in few months

 

[RCU005]

I'll just wait until the games do the talking. Specially with first party titles.

 

[Shmunter]

People still fighting against faster memory subsystem being better in terms of more potential? Common, it's so illogical its akin to claiming the earth is flat.

It doesn't take much to realize access to more data, faster opens things up for developers. It's not Sony's first time at the rodeo.

How many devs actually lean into the potential is the only thing worthy of debate at this point. One things for sure; Sony first party output will be legendary and without reproach.

 

[Psykodad]

More like frame budget, instead of 20 million polygons per frame it should scale down until it meets the capabilities of the system. If it fails then RAM should compensate, instead of just 0.76GB pool it should be around 5-10GB of RAM or much more.

And some people were mocking those that were saying there would be instances where UE5 would have to scale down on XSX, compared to PS5.

Something's gotta give.

 

[Thugnificient]

I'm glad someone else is speaking out. I'm tired of arguing with these Sony bozos.

Arguing with zealots isn't worth your credibility.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

At least I do not know. The key is that - assuming Cerny was truthful - that the dedicated hardware I/O allows for a bypassing of the kernel buffers straight into RAM (so VRAM on a console). The key latency in any system (albeit that consoles can make this much more streamlined than the PC platform) is from the kernel AFAIK.

Given statements from devs such as the DiRT 5 guy, talking of being able to use/discard/replace texture assets mid-frame, I'd assume MS have also taken these considerations and addressed them. So even if all or a part of their I/O is having to deal with kernal, the differences would be infinitesimal.

This is true but as long as you need to run the I/O through the kernel (but to your point in can be much more bare-bone on a console so a key question here is just how bare-bone the software solution on the XSX is) it will add latency. This is from what I understand the heart of the matter.

This could be the case, we don't fully know yet as we don't have all major details on XvA yet. But again, we're talking about virtually minuscule differences at this point considering latency reduction in even Series' case (if entertaining the idea it would have the higher latency of the two) is seemingly enough to allow for mid-frame stream replacement of texture data.

Cerny's presentation was very much about latency as he talked about being able to transform the on-paper bandwidth of the SSD into practical bandwidth for the GPU. The first step is of course to ensure that all components have the correct bandwidth requirement but since latency is the key aspect to achieve the above, latency was at the core of his presentation. System latency is dominant when reading 100 of files into RAM continuously.

Fair enough, I might've underplayed their focus on latency a tad. It should be worth noting though that since MS and Sony have divergent approaches to addressing I/O bottlenecks, the weight of addressing latency purely in and of itself within those solutions doesn't need to be directly weighed the same as comparable between the two in order to justify one as being a valid solution or the other a "less" valid solution.

Since, after all, they are only apples-to-apples approaches in some aspects, but have larger differences and focus on other areas of the I/O stack.

More like frame budget, instead of 20 million polygons per frame it should scale down until it meets the capabilities of the system. If it fails then RAM should compensate, instead of just 0.76GB pool it should be around 5-10GB of RAM or much more.

Generally speaking this is how it would work yes...

But 5 GB - 10 GB? Really? x3 C'mon that is more than a bit excessive estimate. At that point why bother making it scalable for other platforms in the first place? That would reek of extremely poor optimization with regards to sensible scalability.

 

[BluRayHiDef]

Well I also questioned why for the PlayStation 4 Pro they put in a 128% more powerful GPU, and a 31% more powerful CPU but only bothered to increase the memory bandwidth by a mere 23% which resulted in their GPU being bottleneck prone.

After the original PS4 their hardware decisions are a bit questionable.

You're kind of missing the point, that mere 768MB's is bottlenecking their GPU already... It's never been about how much you can stream, it's how much can the renderer take before it collapses. This is showing to be a considerably lower figure than the drives themselves are spec'd to.

The SSD's maximum bandwidths may be more than what the GPUs can handle for real-time asset streaming, but they'll still be useful for booting games from the OS or as a result of switching from one game to another. These SSD's will enable the maps of large open worlds to be loaded in eight tenths of a second to two seconds. So, Sony and Microsoft did not waste the money that they spent on the R&D for these SSD's.

 

[Pimpbaa]

Why are we using UE5 as an example of next gen console SSDs being overkill for the GPUs? Especially considering how poorly UE4 utilized the GPUs in current gen consoles (particularly on the ps4 pro and xb1x). Some developers got better results with their heavily modified UE3 engine (like Rocksteady and Netherrealms Studios). Of course UE5 could be a vastly more efficient engine, but I doubt it will match some mid-gen first party exclusives on the ps5 and xbsx. I think at the very least, some devs will max out the xbsx SSD streaming data. I mean fuck, even last gen UE was slow ass in regards to streaming compared to other engines.

 

[lynux3]

I feel like OP is doing some 4D chess level concern trolling with added salt and gas lighting. Spouting random tech words with wreckless abandon, and when I read the bolded I was reminded of this:



Subsequently I've read his posts in this thread in that kids voice.

I don't have much to add to this discussion other than I guess paradigm shifts are really hard for some people to comprehend. At this point tho, it's bordering on modern day flat earthers level of logic.

Holy shit. It's perfect! Now I can't not read his posts the same way.

 

[Lort]

Who's talking about CPU anyway? That 15GB/s $5000 can't stream that. Open your mind and listen to Epic Games themselves instead of nitpicking.

"We've been working super close with Sony for quite a long time on storage," he says. "The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It's going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, 'Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this."

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says the PS5 is so impressive it’s ‘going to help drive future PCs’

Epic and Sony have been working closely together, and Sweeney is impressed.

www.theverge.com

You can "unread" that if you want and continue the mental gymnastics.

As i said his talking about PC not xbox which has the exacty same no cpu direct decompress and load into ram as the ps5.

You can misdirect all you want.

 

[Elog]

Not a single thing you said is true about MS' inflection. They have talked about these capabilities for a long time. No one listened then but its not that MS has changed focus whatsoever.

My point was not what has been talked about in general terms. My point is what is being emphasised. Tflops was at the centre of their communication before the Cerny speech but is at the back of the bus right now.

 

[Panajev2001a]

As i said his talking about PC not xbox which has the exacty same no cpu direct decompress and load into ram as the ps5.

You can misdirect all you want.

So far they still linked to about 1/10th of a Zen2 core supposedly at the 3.8 GHz settings at least. Maybe they were more forthcoming giving this detail or it is possible they have just a tad less HW hand holding/acceleration than PS5? It would make sense as the more data you need to transfer the worse it would be for the CPU.

 

[Elog]

GPU work creation requires zero assistance from the CPU or other overhead.

Completely agree. This is the nature of dedicated hardware.

However, the hardware needs information to work with. The discussion is how fast you can feed the beast, i.e. get texture and other information off the physical storage unit and into VRAM and ultimately into the GPIU cache to be processed. That I/O journey requires either 1) dedicated hardware that can operate independently from the kernel such as the PS5 solution or 2) the kernel/ CPU to get and process the information.

On a PC 2) is the only way to get the information into VRAM and that is a high latency step due to the kernel/ driver overhead. We are discussing to what extent the XSX has been able to address this latency problem since it seems the XSX is using the kernel like the PC platform to get information off the SSD into RAM (but with hardware decompression similar to PS5).

 

[Panajev2001a]

My point was not what has been talked about in general terms. My point is what is being emphasised. Tflops was at the centre of their communication before the Cerny speech but is at the back of the bus right now.

Also, a lot of that talk came way after the original Wired interview by Cerny which people seem to forget about.

April, 2019:https://www.wired.com/story/exclusive-sony-next-gen-console/

SSD:

That's all great, but there's something else that excites Cerny even more. Something that he calls "a true game changer," something that more than anything else is "the key to the next generation." It's a hard drive.

[...]

At the moment, Sony won't cop to exact details about the SSD—who makes it, whether it utilizes the new PCIe 4.0 standard—but Cerny claims that it has a raw bandwidth higher than any SSD available for PCs. That's not all. "The raw read speed is important," Cerny says, "but so are the details of the I/O [input-output] mechanisms and the software stack that we put on top of them. I got a PlayStation 4 Pro and then I put in a SSD that cost as much as the PlayStation 4 Pro—it might be one-third faster." As opposed to 19 times faster for the next-gen console, judging from the fast-travel demo.

Tempest Engine:

The AMD chip also includes a custom unit for 3D audio that Cerny thinks will redefine what sound can do in a videogame. "As a gamer," he says, "it's been a little bit of a frustration that audio did not change too much between PlayStation 3 and PlayStation 4. With the next console the dream is to show how dramatically different the audio experience can be when we apply significant amounts of hardware horsepower to it."

 

[KingdomHeartsFan]

Isn't that just for the demo though, other games using UE5 are gonna be more demanding. I'd think swinging through an open world spiderman game at full speed is gonna be way more demanding than that linear corridor in the demo.

 

[Redlight]

Who's talking about CPU anyway? That 15GB/s $5000 can't stream that. Open your mind and listen to Epic Games themselves instead of nitpicking.

"We've been working super close with Sony for quite a long time on storage," he says. "The storage architecture on the PS5 is far ahead of anything you can buy on anything on PC for any amount of money right now. It's going to help drive future PCs. [The PC market is] going to see this thing ship and say, 'Oh wow, SSDs are going to need to catch up with this."

Epic CEO Tim Sweeney says the PS5 is so impressive it’s ‘going to help drive future PCs’

Epic and Sony have been working closely together, and Sweeney is impressed.

www.theverge.com

You can "unread" that if you want and continue the mental gymnastics.

This is from the same article...

"Sweeney isn't saying the new Xbox won't be able to achieve something similar; both are using custom SSDs that promise blazing speeds."

Has Sweeney ever said that the Series X couldn't run the exact same demo at the exact same fidelity?

It seems not. Interesting, isn't it?

 

[Panajev2001a]

This is from the same article...

"Sweeney isn't saying the new Xbox won't be able to achieve something similar; both are using custom SSDs that promise blazing speeds."

Has Sweeney ever said that the Series X couldn't run the exact same demo at the exact same fidelity?

It seems not. Interesting, isn't it?

Yeah, his daily rates to fully bash Xbox must be astronomical if $250 Million only lead to that and he is a Sony fanboy too... .

 

[pawel86ck]

blue nugroho (@blueisviolet) | Twitter

The latest Tweets from blue nugroho (@blueisviolet). blue is good. Indonesia

twitter.com

Comments?

People on both sides are using the same tactics. There's no honest discussion between Sony and MS fans.

 

[scalman]

Who even cared what tech demo showed. We had those for years and they allways look good. Doesnt mean much for real games

 

[Explosive Zombie]

Who even cared what tech demo showed. We had those for years and they allways look good. Doesnt mean much for real games

You're right, Unreal Engine tech demos preceding new generations are always easily eclipsed by what real games can actually do...

 

[pawel86ck]

I'm glad someone else is speaking out. I'm tired of arguing with these Sony bozos.

You supposed to have more knowledge than most people here, so tell us 768MB memory pool refers only to streaming bandwidth as OP is trying to say? If that's the case 1GB/s SSD should run the same tech demo with the same results. If not then OP is wrong and only confusing people.

 

[Optimistic Gamer]

You supposed to have more knowledge than most people here, so tell us 768MB memory pool refers only to streaming bandwidth as OP is trying to say? If that's the case 1GB/s SSD should run the same tech demo with the same results. If not then OP is wrong and only confusing people.

+1 for this one.

Somebody explain what this pool means. Is it data for 1 frame? For a full buffer of 3 frames?

I'm confused :<

 

[Shmunter]

You're right, Unreal Engine tech demos preceding new generations are always easily eclipsed by what real games can actually do...

Cinematic direction and cutscenes will never represent gameplay unless it's Heavy Rain or Until Dawn type of game. The unreal 5 demo while not a game, was gameplay and should be a reasonable representation of fidelity in future games on PS5.

 

[Redlight]

Yeah, his daily rates to fully bash Xbox must be astronomical if $250 Million only lead to that and he is a Sony fanboy too... .

It would only take one clear statement from Sweeney saying that the demo was made to specifically leverage the PS5 architecture and that it would, therefore, be impossible at that fidelity on the Series X.

He's been happy to let that implication hang in the air, but never just come and and said it in plain English. Don't you find that interesting? That lack of clarity could well be what a 250 million dollar business partnership gets you.

It could be that he doesn't want to upset MS, but that doesn't seem all that likely does it?

Or it could be that the demo is exactly the same on the Series X.

Until Epic or Sweeney are precise in excluding that possibility, it's perfectly reasonable (in fact the most reasonable thing) to assume that the UE5 demo would be equal in fidelity on the Series X.

 

[Three]

+1 for this one.

Somebody explain what this pool means. Is it data for 1 frame? For a full buffer of 3 frames?

I'm confused :<

You're not going to get anything from VFXVeteran. He is adding nothing to the discussion as usual and deflects to "but mmah PC more powerful" whenever his arguments fall apart. Who can argue with that right! Warring is more important to him than being able to provide any relevant information clearly demonstrated by his post and not questioning the OPs absurd take on this. He's been banned already for his shtick.

The streaming pool is just the amount in memory that is not going to be permanently there during the entire demo but is visible in the current view. You can not gain any information about how often things are swapped in or out of that pool from that value but you can assume it will actually be far less at any given time.

What OP doesn't get though is that to change the current view, for a given player speed, and to stream in new data for that view you need a low latency high speed drive. Lets assume aggressive streaming, and an impractical example. The player can turn 180 so that the current view is entirely different to the last i.e. the entire 786MB in RAM is now different.

Regardless of frametime if the player turned in say 333ms that would mean at minimum you would need a drive speed of 2.4GB/s. Regardless of inbetween frames. Ofcourse this is all theoretical calculations that are not practical. Even the stated values for drive speeds are sequential. As sweeny said you aren't pumping milkshake through a fire hose.

Lets assume you are so that you can use the OPs stated value and the SSD speed spec the way he is doing.
Every frame (for 30fps that would be 33ms) you need the low latency to stream whatever is needed for the inbetween frames. If we assume that the extra data needed is constant for each frame while the player is turning that would be 10 frames and 78MB per 33ms minimum. Of course the actual GBuffer output time is not the whole frametime, the actual time for that is stated to be 4.5ms. 78MB per 4.5ms for a single frame while the player is turning to a whole new 'current view'. The OP thinks these are overspecced based on this . His values and assumptions show they are underspecced.

 

[RaySoft]

Put it this way. Anything that uses UE5 on PC will run better than any platform. Let's vet that.

«Run better» is a broad term tho´. If you´re just talking about overall performance metrics I´ll agree with you.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

This is from the same article...

"Sweeney isn't saying the new Xbox won't be able to achieve something similar; both are using custom SSDs that promise blazing speeds."

Has Sweeney ever said that the Series X couldn't run the exact same demo at the exact same fidelity?

It seems not. Interesting, isn't it?

Well, that's a quote from the "writer's" opinion/thoughts. It'll scale down to less capable platforms indeed.

 

[Rikkori]

Isn't that just for the demo though, other games using UE5 are gonna be more demanding. I'd think swinging through an open world spiderman game at full speed is gonna be way more demanding than that linear corridor in the demo.

They're actually going to be less demanding vis-a-vis Nanite, because as they well said in the talk - you're not going to use the actual cinema assets for a game because then you run into 400-500 GB games. So the demo is actually a bigger stress test in that respect than an actual game.

And indeed, even if you had infinite SSD space, you would still run into the problem of creating assets of that quality level for a whole game, which would not happen even at the biggest AAA studios in the world - and that's not me saying it, that was the Art Director at Sony SM.

That's why these claims that other platforms can't run the UE5 demo just as well are laughable. The only time the super-fast SSD MIGHT make a difference is with first party Sony exclusives. But my theory is that the reason it's over-engineered isn't because games will need it so much in the first years, but rather because they plan to run PS5 alongside PS6 so they designed for long-term plans rather than for right now.

 

[Qudrat Rabbi]

Idk man.They wouldn't spend millions in R&D , talk to developers for years to design a device and ultimately go with something that costs them a lot while providing not much in return.

 

[Redlight]

Well, that's a quote from the "writer's" opinion/thoughts. It'll scale down to less capable platforms indeed.

It's not the 'writer's opinion', he simply commented on the fact that Sweeney didn't (or wouldn't) mention how it would run on the Series X.

He's had a lot of opportunities but has Sweeney ever said, in plain English, that the UE5 demo can't run, at the same fidelity, on the Series X?

He hasn't, has he?

Until he does we should all assume that no scaling is necessary (however much you want it to be).

 

[Clear]

It would only take one clear statement from Sweeney saying that the demo was made to specifically leverage the PS5 architecture and that it would, therefore, be impossible at that fidelity on the Series X.

He's selling a multi-platform engine. There's nothing in it for Epic to stress differences between platforms.

Saying, we can do this using PS5, and showing off impressive tech and visual results gets the job done, because at the end of the day its about UE5 not any particular platform.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Generally speaking this is how it would work yes...

But 5 GB - 10 GB? Really? x3 C'mon that is more than a bit excessive estimate. At that point why bother making it scalable for other platforms in the first place? That would reek of extremely poor optimization with regards to sensible scalability.

"Depending" on the system. Actually PS5 is very likely pushing its RAM usage as well, so this makes even harder to do on other platforms.

And some people were mocking those that were saying there would be instances where UE5 would have to scale down on XSX, compared to PS5.

Something's gotta give.

Yup, when it comes to that "Epic Games are liars". Problem is, we should've seen something worth our time from xbox already instead of those repetitive, empty words that aren't "Philled" yet.

 

[Redlight]

He's selling a multi-platform engine. There's nothing in it for Epic to stress differences between platforms.

Saying, we can do this using PS5, and showing off impressive tech and visual results gets the job done, because at the end of the day its about UE5 not any particular platform.

You would think that but Sweeney has been happy to talk up Sony so far. Although I'm really addressing those here that claim that the UE5 demo would have to be scaled down to run on Series X. It's possible, but it certainly can't be assumed as Sweeney has carefully avoided saying that. At the moment there is no evidence that scaling down would be required.

Maybe it would have to be scaled up.

 

[ZywyPL]

Problem is, we should've seen something worth our time from xbox already instead of those repetitive, empty words that aren't "Philled" yet.

Except no one can see the future, like, 23th July for example, when the MS show will actually take place...