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Etrian Odyssey III: The Drowned City |OT| -- Fight & Heal Sail the Open Seas!

slayn

needs to show more effort.
jaundicejuice said:
So what's the deal with the equipable books? Do you learn techniques from them if you wield, or simply carry, them in battle?
In general its for the extra attributes. You can also use them for status effects. For example, I keep my Monk in the back with no skill points in fists so he does worthless damage. But, I gave him a book that had 6 sleep icons for it and now anything he bashed with his book for 1 damage has like a 30-40% chance of being put to sleep.

So I have him attack whatever the rest of my party is not attacking and often times it works out.
 

Althane

Member
slayn said:
In general its for the extra attributes. You can also use them for status effects. For example, I keep my Monk in the back with no skill points in fists so he does worthless damage. But, I gave him a book that had 6 sleep icons for it and now anything he bashed with his book for 1 damage has like a 30-40% chance of being put to sleep.

So I have him attack whatever the rest of my party is not attacking and often times it works out.

I do the same thing with my Farmer. I find a weapon with a few slots available (I think it's the eared dagger or something like that), and put all poison into it. Once I have more available, I want to see if I can't create a Binding dagger or something like that.

BTW, With the party I have (Hoplite, Gladiator, Prince, Arbalist, Monk), I don't really have any binds available to me. Is this going to be a problem?
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
Eh, binds are a really nice status effect. Not having binds will probably make FOE's a lot harder, but really the only reliable way to bind bosses is going to be with a wildling due to his high luck and post resistance +15% chance.

For normal mobs it evens out. I bind most enemies so that they can't do their worst attacks now that my wildling has like a 90% chance of landing it. The reason I do this is so I have to heal less after battle. But if you have a prince with passive healing, it probably evens out.

The only irritating problem you are going to find are enemy drops. 'Kill while x are bound' is a pretty common condition so you will be missing some gear that could have been unlocked. But for those you would need all the binds anyway, not just 1.

edit:
What you could probably do is once you have the appropriate hammers, forge bindings onto your weapons.

edit2: binding in general is quite a bit weaker in this version than in 1 or 2. This is because ALL enemies/foes/bosses become dramaticalyl more resistant to any condition that hits them. Say you have a 40% chance to land a bind on a given boss. After they recover, that chance drops to 10%. And if you manage to hit them with it a 2nd time, they become outright immune (it drops another 30 to become a -20% chance) to the effect for the rest of the battle.
 

droopy

Member
Speaking of wildlings, which set of summons would be better if they are primarily being summoned to the front line? The owl (sleep) seems better than the bug (poison) but the elephant is a damn elephant!
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
droopy said:
Speaking of wildlings, which set of summons would be better if they are primarily being summoned to the front line? The owl (sleep) seems better than the bug (poison) but the elephant is a damn elephant!
Honestly I think they are all good in the front row. Because the front row gets hit more often and a summon getting attacked is better than a non-summon getting attacked.

Right now my summons are mole/snake/bird/owl. And I summon them all to the front. Don't expect the binding animals to do damage though. Their damage is insignificant. I don't know about the elephant though.
 

Althane

Member
slayn said:
Eh, binds are a really nice status effect. Not having binds will probably make FOE's a lot harder, but really the only reliable way to bind bosses is going to be with a wildling due to his post resistance +15% chance.

For normal mobs it evens out. I bind most enemies so that they can't do their worst attacks now that my wildling has like a 90% chance of landing it. The reason I do this is so I have to heal less after battle. But if you have a prince with passive healing, it probably evens out.

The only irritating problem you are going to find are enemy drops. 'Kill while x are bound' is a pretty common condition so you will be missing some gear that could have been unlocked.


Well, I've got a wildling gathering XP's in the guild (putting the first 10 points a character gets into combat study means your usually adventuring party. When you want to use the characters, you can pull 'em out, rest 'em, and spend the points as you want. Obviously works best if they've got ~15 or 20 levels, so they'll have a decent amount of points when you rest 'em), so I'll check her out.

Man, I just realized how much I miss Dark Hunters. Good damage, great status effects...

They really were sorta OP in EO2.
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
Pureauthor said:
Dark Hunters were nothing compared to Hexers and Protectors in EO2. :p
Hexers I'll give you, but *only* because of Revenge. You take revenge away and Dark Hunters were far and away better than anyone else, including protectors.

They did more damage than anyone. Against basic mobs they did more reliable damage than a ronin.
They could instakill most things at half life
They could easily keep their force bar at full if you had the dominator whip, and prevent all bosses/foes from being able to do *anything* for 3+ rounds
 

lyre

Member
Pureauthor said:
Dark Hunters were nothing compared to Hexers and Protectors in EO2. :p
Really? D Hunter was far more useful for beating the post game boss than the Protector ever could, if only because the D's Boost skill lasted more than just the immediate turn. >:p

/me continues Protector hate

slayn said:
Hexers I'll give you, but *only* because of Revenge. You take revenge away and Dark Hunters were far and away better than anyone else, including protectors.
Hexers could also easily put to sleep 98 per cent of the game's nonboss enemies, easily breaking the game. Let's see the Protector do THAT!
 

bon

Member
My copy finally arrived. The art book is bigger and nicer than expected. Glad I ordered online to make sure I got it.
 

Althane

Member
bon said:
My copy finally arrived. The art book is bigger and nicer than expected. Glad I ordered online to make sure I got it.


Yeah, that art book is probably my favorite bit of merchandise.

Keeping moving forward, floor 6 is a bitch.

At least I'm making enough to upgrade as I go along.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
Protectors are better than Dark Hunters.

Hexers are better than both.

Then the rest of the human classes come in some order, then Beast.

You can make a fight over Dark Hunter versus Protector, but in the end the reliable reapplication of the Protectors force skill is better then having a binding fade early and the anti skills are too good to overlook, and DH have terrible armor and HP.

It's a close race for second, but protectors win out.

EO III however is much better balanced at the top. It's all about getting sweet sweet skill combos going and using the right limits.
 

ethelred

Member
Pinko Marx said:
So whats the best way to do Monk? Do I go all healing, all combat, or a mix of the two?

Maybe it won't be so useful later but right now I'm a huge fan of Ascetic Deeds. Every time the monk uses any skill, whether a healing skill or a fisticuffs skill, he recovers 10 HP per rank in the skill. I have 5 ranks in it now and it's pretty great; my monk can heal other characters without worrying about healing himself; if he's injured, he can use kikouken to do damage to the enemy and still get 50 HP back.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
ethelred said:
Maybe it won't be so useful later but right now I'm a huge fan of Ascetic Deeds. Every time the monk uses any skill, whether a healing skill or a fisticuffs skill, he recovers 10 HP per rank in the skill. I have 5 ranks in it now and it's pretty great; my monk can heal other characters without worrying about healing himself; if he's injured, he can use kikouken to do damage to the enemy and still get 50 HP back.

It's disgustingly good on a Princess as a sub skill. With all the stacked healing I have the enemy basically has to OHKO the Princess to prevent substantial healing.
 

Althane

Member
ethelred said:
Maybe it won't be so useful later but right now I'm a huge fan of Ascetic Deeds. Every time the monk uses any skill, whether a healing skill or a fisticuffs skill, he recovers 10 HP per rank in the skill. I have 5 ranks in it now and it's pretty great; my monk can heal other characters without worrying about healing himself; if he's injured, he can use kikouken to do damage to the enemy and still get 50 HP back.

I never really have the problem of having to heal my Monk. If my monk keeps my prince topped off, I get overall more effective healing over time (although the monk does better spike heals, since I haven't given the Prince the "Buff -> HP" move).
 

botticus

Member
ethelred said:
Maybe it won't be so useful later but right now I'm a huge fan of Ascetic Deeds. Every time the monk uses any skill, whether a healing skill or a fisticuffs skill, he recovers 10 HP per rank in the skill. I have 5 ranks in it now and it's pretty great; my monk can heal other characters without worrying about healing himself; if he's injured, he can use kikouken to do damage to the enemy and still get 50 HP back.
That could potentially be incredibly awesome when I get around to subclassing my Monk as a Prince. If he gets hit, he could use a skill to top himself off and continue on with the passive healing.

But I already have so many points I need to put into healing skills, gah!
 

Althane

Member
So does anyone have a reason I should put more than 1 point into each of the Prince's elemental skills if I have a Hoplite who I'm planning on having the elemental protection skills?

Just curious.

Also:

Fuck floor 6.

Edit: Let me explain. In spoilers.

Most the enemies in F6 have a decent amount of HP, defense, and are weak to volt. I did not have a single volt attack until my most recent level up when I gave Prince and Arbalist Volt attacks. So there.
 
Once I get Royal Veil and Triumphant Cry where I want them to be I might look into adding a Monk subclass focusing on Ascetic Deeds, that simply sounds like it will be an incredibly useful combination of classes and skills.
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
Penny Arcade today:
Etrian Odyssey III couldn't have arrived at a better time; I wasn't able to get out of bed, but my thumbs were in top form. The third entry in a series with callbacks to the PC dungeon crawlers of yore, it marries incredible art (no, really) with a heap of interlocking systems and then tells you to fuck yourself. Not everyone wants that - not everyone wants a game to continually reinforce their unworthiness. But this is all I want now, these mean as hell, spit-in-your-mouth grudgefucker games, and this is certainly that.

In the rounds of Civ V I've played (and enjoyed, to be sure) I've got a good "feeling" by turn ten how this shit is going to shake out. Real quick, just for the curious among you, it's going to shake out with me atop a mountain of of bones, crown wobbling dangerously to one side as I really go nuts on a femur. Maybe I should turn up the difficulty? Which one is the right one, which is the one where it starts to cheat? Etrian Odyssey III only has one difficulty, and that difficulty is motherfucker. There is a cat you might see five, maybe six minutes into the first level of the dungeon that will wipe out your entire party. TPK. Get past him, and there's another one waiting in a tree. Your time, your wealth, and your optimistic young adventurers bleeding optimistically on the forest floor.

You can write a paean to this game, give it the best part of yourself, but it will never love you. It will instruct you, and with a firm hand; that might be the best you can hope for. You might decide that braving the Yggdrasil Labyrinth is a fool's errand, and take your place as a functionary in your father's shipping concern, supplying adventurers braver than yourself. You'll mend nets. You never wonder what it might have been like, that other life. You never wonder, except when you do.

:lol :lol
 

larvi

Member
The_Technomancer said:
Penny Arcade today:


:lol :lol

Maybe it's because I've played the 1st 2 and knew what to expect but to me the difficulty factor has been toned down a bit in EO 3. Currently exploring the 4th floor and the only time my party has been wiped out completely was when I tried to take on a FOE just to get a gauge of what I was looking at.

I think the biggest mistake a lot of people make when it comes to these sort of games is when creating the intial party they get caught up in making their intial characters be the ones they want to use end game so tend to focus on the elite classes which tend to be weak in the beginning.

I find it better to create a couple of throw-away chars to start out with that are a close to the pure fighter/mage/healer as the game allows. For EO3 that was Gladiator/Zodiac/Monk, make sure to pick the inital skills on the Zodiac/Monk to get a damage spell(I tend to go with fire spells if I have an element choice) and healing spells. Once you get a few levels on these chars you can start mixing your keeper chars into the party.
 

Althane

Member
I am now forever going to be telling my friends about EO and describing it by saying:

"It has one difficulty, and that difficulty is motherfucker!"

Because that's a fantastic description of it.

Also, spoilers: (You can read them if you've been on Floor 6 and know what happens there)

Fuck you Olympia
 

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
larvi said:
Maybe it's because I've played the 1st 2 and knew what to expect but to me the difficulty factor has been toned down a bit in EO 3. Currently exploring the 4th floor and the only time my party has been wiped out completely was when I tried to take on a FOE just to get a gauge of what I was looking at.

I think the biggest mistake a lot of people make when it comes to these sort of games is when creating the intial party they get caught up in making their intial characters be the ones they want to use end game so tend to focus on the elite classes which tend to be weak in the beginning.

I find it better to create a couple of throw-away chars to start out with that are a close to the pure fighter/mage/healer as the game allows. For EO3 that was Gladiator/Zodiac/Monk, make sure to pick the inital skills on the Zodiac/Monk to get a damage spell(I tend to go with fire spells if I have an element choice) and healing spells. Once you get a few levels on these chars you can start mixing your keeper chars into the party.
Yeah, I wouldn't say it was more difficult, so much as the first to second floor transition is always annoyingly grindy. Once you get to floor three though it lays off a bit, becomes more manageable.
 

Althane

Member
larvi said:
Maybe it's because I've played the 1st 2 and knew what to expect but to me the difficulty factor has been toned down a bit in EO 3. Currently exploring the 4th floor and the only time my party has been wiped out completely was when I tried to take on a FOE just to get a gauge of what I was looking at.

I think the biggest mistake a lot of people make when it comes to these sort of games is when creating the intial party they get caught up in making their intial characters be the ones they want to use end game so tend to focus on the elite classes which tend to be weak in the beginning.

I find it better to create a couple of throw-away chars to start out with that are a close to the pure fighter/mage/healer as the game allows. For EO3 that was Gladiator/Zodiac/Monk, make sure to pick the inital skills on the Zodiac/Monk to get a damage spell(I tend to go with fire spells if I have an element choice) and healing spells. Once you get a few levels on these chars you can start mixing your keeper chars into the party.


I dunno, I started with a Gladiator, Prince frontline, and a Monk, Arbalist, Farmer backline. The only thing I've done differently is I switched out the farmer for a Hoplite. And that was because I needed the line guard for FOEs and bosses.

I still want to work on my farmer as a battle farmer (I did start growing him as a gathering character though, with minimal combat abilities. So it'll be a while (and I don't want to rest him))
 

bon

Member
larvi said:
Maybe it's because I've played the 1st 2 and knew what to expect but to me the difficulty factor has been toned down a bit in EO 3. Currently exploring the 4th floor and the only time my party has been wiped out completely was when I tried to take on a FOE just to get a gauge of what I was looking at.

I think the biggest mistake a lot of people make when it comes to these sort of games is when creating the intial party they get caught up in making their intial characters be the ones they want to use end game so tend to focus on the elite classes which tend to be weak in the beginning.

I find it better to create a couple of throw-away chars to start out with that are a close to the pure fighter/mage/healer as the game allows. For EO3 that was Gladiator/Zodiac/Monk, make sure to pick the inital skills on the Zodiac/Monk to get a damage spell(I tend to go with fire spells if I have an element choice) and healing spells. Once you get a few levels on these chars you can start mixing your keeper chars into the party.
I always form my party based on what character designs I like the best. Hasn't failed me yet :lol
 
The best way I've found to play Etrian Odyssey is this:

Create approximately two of every class. You don't need to add them all right away, but you should have it filled out by the end of the second stratum at the latest.

The advantages are twofold: First, you get to build up two different paths for a class, you get to experiment around with crazy party builds and see what works, and you get to have a slightly difference fighting style everytime you enter the Labyrinth.

Secondly, you are permanently (and I mean permanently) underleveled, and that makes it that much more fuin.
 

larvi

Member
Yeah, I have 2 of each class too (and 5 farmers), 1 with only combat study maxed waiting and 1 that I've been working in and out of my party with some preliminary skill picks but now working on maxing combat study on those too. Since I can respec later with not that big of a penalty I can play around with each class and the various skill trees until I get a better idea of what I need for later.

But as far as difficulty is concerned I think the older rpgs, i.e. Bard's Tale, Might and Magic i, etc were much harder to make those first few levels. In BT it would usually take me several tries to survive the 1st fight and making that 1st level was a major accomplishment. But just as you thought you were starting to make some progress night would fall and god help you if you weren't close to the inn :)
 

ToxicAdam

Member
larvi said:
But as far as difficulty is concerned I think the older rpgs, i.e. Bard's Tale, Might and Magic i, etc were much harder to make those first few levels. In BT it would usually take me several tries to survive the 1st fight and making that 1st level was a major accomplishment. But just as you thought you were starting to make some progress night would fall and god help you if you weren't close to the inn :)

That was the nature of D&D gameplay (and games based off of them) back then. Your HP are so low and your combat was so weak that few bad "dice rolls" would have you eating shit. Anyone that has played Pool of Radiance can remember trudging through the slums of phlan, but the rest of the game was pretty easy (but fun).

Fortunately, game developers have learned since then and have buffered that learning curve a bit.
 
Early crawlers had deaths not because you made a bad call but because you were next to completely helpless in the early game. The most ludicrous example has to be Wizardry 4.
 

larvi

Member
Yeah, Wizardry 4 was a lot of fun, but even the mid/end game didn't get any easier. One tiltowait would wipe your entire party out just as you were getting close to the level exit and you would have to start back at the beginning again.
 
I live in Canada and I'm still waiting on my vg+ order to arrive. Granted I'm on the west coast and vg+ is back east but previous orders with them arrived quicker. Glad I caved and simply bought the game at EB.
 

Althane

Member
If you know what I'm talking about you can read spoilers:

Starfishies. =X

I made it to the second round of the battle before everyone dropped dead. WTF! Please tell me there's only two rounds?
 

slayn

needs to show more effort.
Althane said:
If you know what I'm talking about you can read spoilers:

Starfishies. =X

I made it to the second round of the battle before everyone dropped dead. WTF! Please tell me there's only two rounds?
I forget if there's 2 or 3, but the final one is with the king starfish thing. So if you didn't see that, there's more.
 

Althane

Member
slayn said:
I forget if there's 2 or 3, but the final one is with the king starfish thing. So if you didn't see that, there's more.


The first one started with a King Starfish. Geeze. They're just... killer.
 
So far I'm not digging Buccaneer's. I think if the Chase abilities were passive they'd be an infinitely more useful class. As it is with my current party I'm getting one extra hit with Chase Slash, if the target survives. More than half the time I'm getting one Chase attack, which may as well be a normal attack because those don't cost TP. I'm going to train up a Monk to take my Buccaneers place. Better to have a dedicated healer to supplement my Princess' passive healing skills than a so-so support melee class.

Farmers, on the other hand, are pretty epic. The more skill points I drop into my farmer, the more enjoyable an experience loot farming becomes. be it from harvesting points or in random encounters.
 
got it today. the book is very awesome, didn't expect it to cover the first 2 games as well. too bad i won't be playing at least until i finish p3p
 
jaundicejuice said:
So far I'm not digging Buccaneer's. I think if the Chase abilities were passive they'd be an infinitely more useful class. As it is with my current party I'm getting one extra hit with Chase Slash, if the target survives. More than half the time I'm getting one Chase attack, which may as well be a normal attack because those don't cost TP. I'm going to train up a Monk to take my Buccaneers place. Better to have a dedicated healer to supplement my Princess' passive healing skills than a so-so support melee class.

They're awesome for Boss and FOE hunting, though. And Swashbuckling is just so good.

The second stratum may be the most beautiful thing I've seen on a DS.

This is by far the prettiest EO game.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Is there a site with a good rundown of all the class skills, what they do and where they are effective/ineffective?
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
I did not know that thing listed skill effects as well, thanks!
 
I thought I missed out on the art book, but I ordered the game from Amazon just a few days ago (after its release) and they sent the art book along as well :D Looks like they may still have a few.
 

Althane

Member
Ela Hadrun said:
So I'm almost through the second stratum.

Is it possible to
save Hypatia?


Second stratum spoilers:

Yeah, but you kill the Ninja-dude if you do. Don't tell him about the nest, and you kill her. Tell him about the nest, and you kill him. Yeah.

(As far as I've found so far)
 
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