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Etrian Odyssey IV: Legends of the Titan |OT|: Fight & Heal Brings 3D To Europe!

Althane

Member
L: R for Links, B for others. I also works for links, but you only get that later.

F: D. Best tank in the game.

R: B for Surge (which boosts her damage too) and Deep Breath TP recovery. Roar is also boosted with R skills and Endure is just good.

So I have pretty much ignored links since changing my dancer for an arcanist. He's been pure attack damage. With vanguard and power break, it's a pretty good deal. But I kind of miss the hundreds of damage output from the two (although my R stomps everything so far).

Thinking I should rest when I hit 42 with my team and see how it goes.
 

Totakeke

Member
Well, Fallen One is weak to insta kill, so you can try to assassinate it or using death/petrify weapons. If his head is bound you get a drop for an awesome Imperial weapon.

Beating the 6th maze boss gives you some good weapons and a ring from the court... But I mean all this stuff is optional. Depends if you're still having fun with it.

I did it on casual difficulty...my whole first playthrough...and now I'm doing NG+ on Normal...so I haven't gotten there yet. You could always switch to casual to make the fights easier.

Nah, it's not because it's difficult or anything, just feels like a chore a this point. Just killed Fallen One the hard way. I guess the couple of levels gained in the 6th maze and AGI boots was all it took. Still using my F/N/N | A/M party, suck it imperial lovers.
 

scy

Member
The maze itself. The monsters are kind of obnoxious too (hollow + red lion = 1000 damage to all lol) but it's the extreme trial and error of those dark rooms that grind the progression down to almost nothing.

Er, it's not trial and error. The previous room shows you the right path to use.
 

Boogiepop

Member
Er, it's not trial and error. The previous room shows you the right path to use.

To be fair, it's really easy to unintentionally skip those "previous" rooms showing you the right path, at least for the big one on the 2nd floor, as they're kind of presented as alternative paths (and I did just that. Whoops.)

Anyway, I've decided for now that I'm going to call it now that the only things left are the final two postgame bosses (and filling in the rest of my books), as that'll pretty much come down to grinding at this point. I'll probably come back to the game and beat them eventually when I'm really craving an EO game again, but for now I've got other games to beat and it was starting to switch from fun to tedious.

So, I guess I'll post my final thoughts on the game (I'll put everything in spoilers just to be on the safe side).
As a whole, I feel like EOIII is still my favorite. I thought for sure this one would surpass it at the beginning, but there are just a few things that annoyed me enough that III retains the crown. But first off, on the positive side I absolutely loved what they did with the music, and the 3D graphics look great. The new skill trees are also probably the best they've ever been, and a lot of the little things like take/chop/mine points no longer requiring a separate skill are fantastic.

However, the biggest negative for me is just that the game feels small/rushed compared to the previous games. The part where that really stands out to me is the maps. Even if we count the caves as equivalent to floors, we still end up with one less "floor" total than previous games. And then on top of that the caves are absolutely tiny compared to floors in previous EOs. Even the maze floors are small compared to previous games. One of my favorite things in III (I think the first two may have done this too, but I'd need to check) was realizing that every last tile on those maps was used. But here, even on the 3rd floors that are used to fill up the 5th maze, they simply don't use all the space. Some of the maze maps don't even get anywhere close, with the 1st floor of the Misty Ravine being especially pathetic.

And this also sadly led to the 5th maze being a real heavy letdown. I mean, I was hyped when I got to the real maze, and then incredibly let down to find out it was only 1 floor (with the whole upper-left corner dedicated to the area for that one quest checking if you've been taking notes)! The rest is just going back through the same old mazes with the gimmicks repeated, and I was actually really annoyed that the "thrones" I had to go back and hit weren't even bosses or anything despite the fact that every teleport for some reason told me to "fight!" Bleh. The 6th maze on the other hand had some cool tension and nice FOE use+puzzles as well as surprisingly interesting backstory to make up for the fact that it was a recolor of the fourth land, so I'm cool with that one. The FOEs also felt WAY too weak in this game, and shouldn't have been beatable so early. I mean, I was hardly concerned by them as of the third stratum, and the second I got to the fourth and fifth areas I could just ignore the puzzles and take down the FOEs instead. And this is with just doing the quests/caves, no side grinding or anything.

And then I guess there's the rest of my smaller issues. While about half the classes felt fresh (D/N/S/A/I), the rest felt pretty standard, which is a shame after III tried so hard to mix it up. This is also probably a weird complaint, but as fantastic as it is to have the logbook on hand at all times, I somehow miss the satisfaction I got from going back to town and checking out all the stuff I filled in. I guess a similar complaint would be that it just doesn't feel as satisfying to me beating a boss and then getting a tablet instead of going right into the next stratum. Also kind of screws up the ability to go back to a boss immediately by going to the next stratum and going down the stairs. The story also somehow lacked even more of a punch than previous EOs for me (outside of the 6th maze), despite having a lot more text here. Just felt so bland and straightforward somehow, I dunno.

Oh, and the airship is lame compared to the ship. There's just nothing really to it, as the FOE avoiding "puzzles" come down to pretty much nothing or dropping food. Whereas the whole of the ship stuff was a neat puzzle game on its own, figuring out bit by bit how you can get just a little farther. Just felt like a shame and a bit of a downgrade.

Still, in the end, I ended up completely hooked despite any complaints I may have had, and really appreciated the things the game did right (even if I had more to say about what I felt was off). I'm actually pretty confident that the next one will easily take the top spot for me, as most of my problems here feel like a result of the game being rushed out the door.

So yeah, tl;dr: I still like the game a lot, but a couple of issues prevented it from taking the top spot away from EOIII, at least in my opinion.
 
Er, it's not trial and error. The previous room shows you the right path to use.

....really? *looks*

holy fucking shit. mind blown! well, I have it all mapped out now, after an hour of falling in holes endlessly!

now if only I had a good strategy for that hollow / red lion combo. if I can't run on the first turn then I am just fucked.
 

Soulhouf

Member
Started it yesterday and what I can say is, it lives up to my expectations. I'm really really glad it did.
Emerged victorious in many battles with barely 1 or 2 characters alive which gives a big satisfaction even if the game seems to be less punishing than the 1st one (the only one I beat).

I can already tell that this game has the potential to be my new favorite 3DS game (previous one was Crimson Shroud) and probably a candidate for 2013 GOTY.
 
In the third labyrinth now. Came across some purple baboons that wrecked my party. Thank goodness I subclassed a medic for revive.

Current team:

L/R (Runic Gleam invested in for +atk on elemental strikes)

F/D (Fan Dance!)

D/M (Generally has the most spare TP aside from my Fort)

+

A/R (runes for elemental weaknesses/resistance)

S/A (just for the extra skill points)
 

balddemon

Banned
beat the boiling lizard with ease. none of the bosses have been difficult at all. the last two (lizard and hollow queen), I went in with half tp and still destroyed them. I'm playing on normal. I also have 16 skill points I haven't used on my nightseeker that I'm saving for when she hits 40.
 
beat the boiling lizard with ease. none of the bosses have been difficult at all. the last two (lizard and hollow queen), I went in with half tp and still destroyed them. I'm playing on normal. I also have 16 skill points I haven't used on my nightseeker that I'm saving for when she hits 40.

What level are your characters? I must be doing something wrong considering the Queen was able to one hit KO over half my party with a single move when I first fought her.
 

balddemon

Banned
What level are your characters? I must be doing something wrong considering the Queen was able to one hit KO over half my party with a single move when I first fought her.

for the queen they were 26-28. for the lizard, everyone was at 38. no grinding was done, these levels are from doing all the sidequests and not running from any randoms. my team is like so:
F/D | N/A | L
A/M | R

I don't know what I'm going to sub on the landshark or the runemaster yet. this team really is better suited for bosses rather than random encounters in my experience.

here's my basic battle setup.
Turn 1-3, my fortress sets up taunt, strike/element guard, and regen waltz. after that I just defend/normal attack/line guard the back since they don't have the benefit of swordbreaker or regen waltz.

my nightseeker tries to land a nerve throw, and then use shadow bite. she was doing 500 damage per shadow bite once the lizard was paralyzed.

landshark sets up vanguard, then use double strike and bursts as needed.

arcanist sets up a circle (usually hood circle) to get the healing each turn, and then uses atrophic and charm eye.

finally, runemaster. sets up a weakness rune (in the lizards case, ice rune), and then uses the most powerful elemental attack (in this case, glacier rune).

killed the lizard in less than 10 turns with no one coming close to dying.
 
Well, just going into the 4th land, and wow. New tracks are blowing me away, from the land theme, to the dungeon theme, to the new battle theme. Amazing.
 
sorry, the new peeps are on bf1, but I'm pretty sure you'll have to go to bf2 first to get to them.

edit: also (end of 3rd chapter spoilers)
nice twist, atlus. damn you whirlwind!

They did a good job foreshadowing that.
He comments at one point that you shouldn't be so trusting because someone is liable to betray you. Also he totally has the eyes of a cold-blooded killer. I panicked immediately after giving him the coordinates to the Vessel town in chapter two because I thought he was going to raze it to the ground or something.
 

balddemon

Banned
They did a good job foreshadowing that.
He comments at one point that you shouldn't be so trusting because someone is liable to betray you. Also he totally has the eyes of a cold-blooded killer. I panicked immediately after giving him the coordinates to the Vessel town in chapter two because I thought he was going to raze it to the ground or something.

yeah I remember that. I was like "wow, you totally gave yourself away!" whatever. I'm going to kick his ass hard
 
Just fought
the 6th maze boss for the first time after getting all the canisters. I managed to hilariously get past his first form thanks to Party Shield, and then I had 5 burst which let me revive the whole party to full. I killed three limbs without too much trouble but then Megido hit me for 500 to all and I was done. Unless Megido came out because I had killed the limbs, I'm probably not going to beat this guy without levels. I'm currently around 76-81 without much in terms of uber gear.
 

ohlawd

Member
Just fought
the 6th maze boss for the first time after getting all the canisters. I managed to hilariously get past his first form thanks to Party Shield, and then I had 5 burst which let me revive the whole party to full. I killed three limbs without too much trouble but then Megido hit me for 500 to all and I was done. Unless Megido came out because I had killed the limbs, I'm probably not going to beat this guy without levels. I'm currently around 76-81 without much in terms of uber gear.

Runic Gleam Origin Rune from my Runemaster helped me out with the limbs. Mine did enough damage to remove about 80% of all the limbs' hp.
 

balddemon

Banned
^I don't think so.

In other news, chameleon king can go straight to hell. Wiped 3 times in a row cuz of that bullshit poison spell. Gonna try poison resist stuff, and then if that doesn't work, I'm killing some golden sheep.
 

balddemon

Banned
Damn. Hitting level 40 and getting maxed venom throw + swift edge + maxed ailment boost made the fight trivial. Venom throw is insaneeeeeeeee!
Oh and inferno helped too haha.
 
Finally killed second boss at 35 and respeced after and went with arcanist instead of medic. Auto leveling back to 35. Its such a useful feature. Team so far is land/dnc/ns/arc/rune. For my sub im going ns on my dnc and medic on arc but other than that im not sure what else to do. I am guessing bushi on my ns for its sub?
 
Finally I got my hands on this game! First of all, the thing that stands out more for me is the music, it's fantastic and it's weird that I don't see people mention it much. Having lots of fun thus far.
 

spiritfox

Member
Finally killed second boss at 35 and respeced after and went with arcanist instead of medic. Auto leveling back to 35. Its such a useful feature. Team so far is land/dnc/ns/arc/rune. For my sub im going ns on my dnc and medic on arc but other than that im not sure what else to do. I am guessing bushi on my ns for its sub?

35 for the 2nd boss? That's... high.

For your NS A is a good sub for Ailment Boost and TP return, but you can't get that until level 40. Otherwise, either B or L is pretty decent for the damage boost, though B would be better.

Finally I got my hands on this game! First of all, the thing that stands out more for me is the music, it's fantastic and it's weird that I don't see people mention it much. Having lots of fun thus far.

Good music is pretty much staple for this series, so it's a given that the music is awesome ;)

edit: What's the drop needed for the endgame Imperial armor?
 
But here,
even on the 3rd floors that are used to fill up the 5th maze,
they simply don't use all the space.

They actually do, except in one case, but I still understand the criticism because
the maps were used for double duty - each of them was an actual floor on its own and then the extra space was used as a stand-in for what could've been a 5th stratum floor.

Spoilers for maps at endgame:

Stratum 5 floor 1
Stratum 5 floor 2
Stratum 5 floor 3
Stratum 5 floor 4

All the space is used, except in one case.
 

tuffy

Member
I rather liked that part the 5th maze.
The series has always tried to bring the player back to earlier strata of the game, sometimes with keys to unlock areas populated by tougher monsters. But this time they've integrated the "world tour" better so that you're sure to revisit those familiar territories again with more challenging versions of old enemies.

I'm pragmatic enough to realize that so long as the developers are releasing it on a cart there's going to be limitations on how much mappable space they can fit, but I'm always a little sad when I run out of new floors.
 
I'm pragmatic enough to realize that so long as the developers are releasing it on a cart there's going to be limitations on how much mappable space they can fit, but I'm always a little sad when I run out of new floors.

There actually is very little limitation. They could add a dozen more floors to each strata, or a hundred, so long as it used the same graphics for the map and enemies. A map might as well be a tiny little 30x30 bitmap.
 

tuffy

Member
There actually is very little limitation. They could add a dozen more floors to each strata, or a hundred, so long as it used the same graphics for the map and enemies. A map might as well be a tiny little 30x30 bitmap.
But to be mappable the game needs to let the player draw any amount of walls on each floor, color in any amount of tiles, drag X number of icons and add Y number of notes. It's probably not much space by our standards, but it's enough to make every game in the series grind for a few seconds during a save to cartridge.
 
There actually is very little limitation. They could add a dozen more floors to each strata, or a hundred, so long as it used the same graphics for the map and enemies. A map might as well be a tiny little 30x30 bitmap.

Not to mention that the entire game is just over 700 MB for the download version. A good amount of space for new graphics and sound given a 1 GB cartridge.

However... save space is at a premium. 512K? I wonder how busy the saves are at the current state.
 
Well let's think about this.

A 30x30 map is 900 tiles.

Every tile can have one of five floor states: four different colors and empty (unexplored). That's a 3-bit number.

Every tile also essentially has two walls associated with it, like this:

rYYDNN2.png


It's actually a little less than that if you think about it because the edges of the map don't have walls. In any case that's two more bits, each wall has an on/off state.

There are 44 icons that can be placed in any given square, one at a time. There are also a couple unique icons that can be forcibly placed in a space like the geomagnetic pole. That's one 6-bit number.

So every tile on the map has 11 bits associated with it.

To simplify things, they'd probably just use two bytes (16 bits) for this, meaning every 30x30 map is 1800 bytes, or 1.75 kilobytes. You can fit 585 floors in one megabyte.

If they only use the necessary 11 bytes, the maps are 1237 bytes, or 1.2 kilobytes. You can fit 853 of these floors in one megabyte.

That's before compression. Typically you would compress any floors that aren't currently being used, and when you change floors you compress the one you're on and decompress the new one. You can probably get a pretty good compression ratio on these things even with a simple method like RLE.

Also a lot of the maps in this game aren't even 30x30!

So I dunno, I'm pretty sure they could make the games a lot bit bigger and instead they choose not to, to keep enemy designs fresh and not to have too many floors of the same stuff, and to keep stratum designs and music from wearing on you for too long.
 

scy

Member
It's worth noting that some people do seem to overlook how small some of the floors in earlier games really were. A lot were the size of the Caves in EO4. Granted, the caves don't get much larger (and then there's floors like Misty Ravine's 1st Floor) and even EO1/EO2 had nearly full maps for the 4th Stratum+ but it's really not that bad for amount of mappable terrain with the loss of two floors.

And, if I remember the map data right from prior game rips, they are indeed fairly small. I'd have to check when I get home as I think I still have most of those (I hope, might've been on a drive that recently died on me ;_;). The only other extra map data I can think of would be that each tile has a different "Danger Value" associated with it and each tile has a set of enemy encounters it can pull from.
 
The only other extra map data I can think of would be that each tile has a different "Danger Value" associated with it and each tile has a set of enemy encounters it can pull from.

That is not player-driven data that you have to actually save. You don't have to save FOEs and their paths and spawn points either, that's just in game ROM.
 

tuffy

Member
We look at a couple of kilobytes per floor as an absurdly small number, and from the speed the game saves to an SD card, it probably isn't far off the mark. But when you look at how long the game takes to save to a cart, whatever chips they're using probably aren't very fast, don't have a high capacity, and still aren't that cheap since the game's saving more data than most.

That said, I agree that there's also some design limitations at work. Given an unlimited amount of memory, it'd be easy to draw up 20 floors' worth of mazes per area, but the developers also want the average player to see the end of it. So I think there's a mix of factors at work.
 

spiritfox

Member
Don't forget the development costs and time needed to make more floors and gimmicks. Given that this is a game developed early in the platform's life, they might still have some toothing issues working with the 3DS. After all, they need to create all new assets to work with the 3D, so they could have decided to cut some floors to save on time and costs.
 
I think the cart has room for more floors, but the devs set out to produce a certain amount of content. I like it how it is, rather than artificially extending it or padding it.

Still I really hope there is going to be a sequel. I heard it sold 15k in NA.
 

tuffy

Member
Still I really hope there is going to be a sequel. I heard it sold 15k in NA.
Given that they've already done the work of porting its engine to the 3DS, the Japanese sales have been solid and it doesn't cost a fortune to localize, I'm sure there'll be a sequel sooner rather than later. They've probably started work on it already.
 

Necrovex

Member
I heard a little about this game through the Active Time Battle podcast. The introduction to a casual mode has really caught my notice, since I have always wanted to try this series out, but I hate losing all of my progress (i.e. making me feel that I wasted my time) when I die. Is there anything else that I should know about this game? I know very little about the franchise as a whole, so I want to hear what makes it special from the fans.
 

ys45

Member
I also finally beaten second boss , i realize the problem is I'm not a debuff guy when playing those kind of game (besides weakening attack power and magic power) .

So my first time i got destroyed by
her Dimensional cut (what ever the name) i realized i sould have used bind on her head/legs
so now i realize that my party of L/L/F/M/R might be having issue later on the game, do i really need an A/N/S for bind and debuff or is it possible to finish the game without any of those class in my party ?

I was thinking about changing my second L anyway but my R is kinda good for doing great DMG

Any tips ?
 

Anteo

Member
I also finally beaten second boss , i realize the problem is I'm not a debuff guy when playing those kind of game (besides weakening attack power and magic power) .

So my first time i got destroyed by
her Dimensional cut (what ever the name) i realized i sould have used bind on her head/legs
so now i realize that my party of L/L/F/M/R might be having issue later on the game, do i really need an A/N/S for bind and debuff or is it possible to finish the game without any of those class in my party ?

I was thinking about changing my second L anyway but my R is kinda good for doing great DMG

Any tips ?

Nah, later in the game a buffed up Link Landsknecht will help you finish bosses really fast, so dont worry too much about that. I have a N on my party and I mostly use Venom so I don't get to disable the bosses and I still do fine.
 

spiritfox

Member
I heard a little about this game through the Active Time Battle podcast. The introduction to a casual mode has really caught my notice, since I have always wanted to try this series out, but I hate losing all of my progress (i.e. making me feel that I wasted my time) when I die. Is there anything else that I should know about this game? I know very little about the franchise as a whole, so I want to hear what makes it special from the fans.

There's a demo if you want to try it out before buying. All progress there can be carried forward onto the actual game.

Don't let the artstyle fool you, it's a pretty challenging dungeon crawler that can easily kick your ass if you are not careful. But just take it slow, explore everywhere, and read whatever the game tells you, and you should be fine. There's no need to grind in this game, you get all the XP you need from doing quests and just killing all the enemies while exploring. If you have any problems just ask us! We're happy to help.

Oh and always carry a Ariadne Thread with you. It will save your life. Though you don't really need it in casual since the game gives it to you for free...

Nah, later in the game a buffed up Link Landsknecht will help you finish bosses really fast, so dont worry too much about that. I have a N on my party and I mostly use Venom so I don't get to disable the bosses and I still do fine.

Do links stack? If not, might as well change the other L, since he'll be a dead weight. Anyway, he would need another multihit DPSer to fully make use of Linksharks. N with Swift Edge or S with Squall Volley can help a lot in that party.
 
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