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[surly]

Please defend Netflix requiring a Gold sub. I await further amusement.

Why do you think that Netflix requires a Gold sub? You're not that naive are you? It's because they want people to sign up for Xbox Live Gold. It's as simple as that.

Why can't I have cloud saving or automatic game updates (which would be very useful) on my PS3 unless I pay for PSN+? Because they added those features to the PSN+ tier to make it more attractive to get people to pay for it.

 

[ghst]

Why do you think that Netflix requires a Gold sub? You're not that naive are you? It's because they want people to sign up for Xbox Live Gold. It's as simple as that.

Why can't I have cloud saving or automatic game updates (which would be very useful) on my PS3 unless I pay for PSN+? Because they added those features to the PSN+ tier to make it more attractive to get people to pay for it.

there's that psn again.

 

[Snuggles]

If you can't understand that people see value in some ads, just like you did when the same information was posted on NeoGAF, then it's not possible to explain it to you. Just give up asking, because people have answered you multiple times and you don't get it.

You proved that one of several ads had some relevance to me. That's my point, most of it is junk. One exception doesn't invalidate everything else.

But it is what it is, we won't be seeing eye on eye on this. I think the 360 is an awesome system but I strongly object to Microsoft's practices, especially of late. I'll do my part in not supporting it, but I can't help but have a bleak outlook of the future of consoles if they continue down this path.

 

[erpg]

I just don't see it (ads) as a problem, Snuggler. Like say, Steam's homepage, they showcase new videos and trailers, new releases, sales and other promotions (oh God, sometimes Steam has full page ads for a sale! Run!). Sure, sometimes you'll get weird stuff when you scroll down the ads looking for...more ads, like the masochist you are (we're getting some Tim Hortons ads in Canada right now), but I still don't see a problem. It's still just a little square. Stay off the Spotlight section if you don't want the weird stuff.

I also don't spend my internet time keeping track of new Games on Demand releases or what's new on Zune, so why not...have that information on the system that has them?

 

[Zimbardo]

its too bad that people actually accepted Xbox Live Gold. now its just second nature and Xbox users just don't seem to care that they are the only people paying to play games online.

they allowed Microsoft to get away with it and now its just standard issue.

what they should have done was sent a message and not bought into it ...then Microsoft would have been forced to let it be free.

 

[Sydle]

You proved that one of several ads had some relevance to me. That's my point, most of it is junk. One exception doesn't invalidate everything else.

But it is what it is, we won't be seeing eye on eye on this. I think the 360 is an awesome system but I strongly object to Microsoft's practices, especially of late. I'll do my part in not supporting it, but I can't help but have a bleak outlook of the future of consoles if they continue down this path.

And here I am hoping Microsoft keeps the ads, but makes them more contextually relevant to the stuff I like. Amazon does this and emails me...they get a lot of money. And I hope Sony copies Live feature for feature.

Eh.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I am voting with my wallet. The problem is all the other idiots who are not and allowing this shit to ruin it for the rest of us.

I said the same when the first DLC came to the 360 (GRAW). I refused to pay $15 for 4 maps. Sadly, many others did. Now here we are.

its too bad that people actually accepted Xbox Live Gold. now its just second nature and Xbox users just don't seem to care that they are the only people paying to play games online.

they allowed Microsoft to get away with it and now its just standard issue.

what they should have done was sent a message and not bought into it ...then Microsoft would have been forced to let it be free.

at the end of the day, people don't mind paying a reasonable price for something they really enjoy. $2-$4/month isn't a big deal for...anyone. Especially considering it's still the best integrated online service available today.

 

[Snuggles]

I just don't see it (ads) as a problem, Snuggler. Like say, Steam's homepage, they showcase new videos and trailers, new releases, sales and other promotions. Sure, sometimes you'll get weird stuff when you scroll down the ads looking for...more ads, like the masochist you are (we're getting some Tim Hortons ads in Canada right now), but I still don't see a problem. It's still just a little square. Stay off the Spotlight section if you don't want the weird stuff.

It does, but a. all of those are related to games that are available on the service (no US Army or Slim Jim ads) and b. when I boot up Steam, it goes straight to my library. That's where they can't be compared, on Steam I can choose to abstain from ads and virtual marketplaces and boot straight to my games, on 360 I cannot.

And yes, in terms of functionality, it isn't a major issue. I'm just one of those weirdos on the internets that objects to things based on principle and the impact they could have on the future. It's because I care.

 

[Sydle]

It does, but a. all of those are related to games that are available on the service (no US Army or Slim Jim ads) and b. when I boot up Steam, it goes straight to my library. That's where they can't be compared, on Steam I can choose to abstain from ads and virtual marketplaces and boot straight to my games, on 360 I cannot.

And yes, in terms of functionality, it isn't a major issue. I'm just one of those weirdos on the internets that objects to things based on principle and the impact they could have on the future. It's because I care.

You have the option to boot to disc, or you can just not automatically sign into Live. They are both ad free.

 

[alr1ght]

And here I am hoping Microsoft keeps the ads, but makes them more contextually relevant to the stuff I like.

 

[Kunan]

I don't understand the cable tv association. For them to be similar, each channel you watch would have to cost money. Only a few like HBO do. It would be like if Comedy Central, CNN, Fox News, Cartoon Network each cost $60 on top of your cable fees.

See I don't mind the ads in the PSN because they are for games you can buy on the store, and the ads are done in a way thats very unintrusive. I hate seeing a damned cheetos ad on the 360. That's what needs to change.

 

[GuiltySpank]

This is just another way for Microsoft to charge advertisers more for ads on Xbox Live.

 

[surly]

I'm just one of those weirdos on the internets that objects to things based on principle and the impact they could have on the future. It's because I care.

Get the fuck out of here. You were gaming online on a 360 until it died out of warranty with a RROD.

 

[Zeliard]

Why do you think that Netflix requires a Gold sub? You're not that naive are you? It's because they want people to sign up for Xbox Live Gold. It's as simple as that.

Why can't I have cloud saving or automatic game updates (which would be very useful) on my PS3 unless I pay for PSN+? Because they added those features to the PSN+ tier to make it more attractive to get people to pay for it.

No shit. That's arguing from the corporation's angle.

Now try to defend it from the consumer's perspective as you've been attempting with the ads. Netflix doesn't require some extra charge on the consumer's part anywhere else I've seen. You pay the ISP and the Netflix subscription. With Xbox it requires additional payment to Microsoft; that's no benefit to the consumer. From MS' pov, Silver still nets them all-important subs and gets those people one step closer to Gold.

 

[Snuggles]

Get the fuck out of here. You were gaming online on a 360 until it died out of warranty with a RROD.

You're right, and it's why I didn't replace it. There are a few exclusive games I wouldn't mind playing, but I'm not going to buy a new system or pay for a Live subscription.

Also, it's kind of creepy that you're researching me.

 

[surly]

No shit. That's arguing from the corporation's angle.

Now try to defend it from the consumer's perspective as you've been attempting with the ads. Netflix doesn't require some extra charge on the consumer's part anywhere else I've seen. You pay the ISP and the Netflix subscription. With Xbox it requires additional payment to Microsoft; that's no benefit to the consumer. From MS' pov, Silver still nets them all-important subs and gets those people once step closer to Gold.

The ads are easy to ignore. Even Snuggler managed it, despite his principles and protests in this thread. You've just posted why that situation is different with Netflix, so I don't know why you want me to attempt to defend it. Is it relevant to this thread in some way?

You're right, and it's why I didn't replace it. There are a few games I wouldn't mind playing, but I'm not going to buy a new system.

Also, it's kind of creepy that you're researching me.

A lot of people are easily caught out talking shit on forums and contradicting themselves. "Oh, these ads are so terrible, how can you defend them? I have principles and won't support this shit. It's because I care!" - No, it's cos your 360 died. Before that, you managed to ignore the ads just fine.

 

[Snuggles]

A lot of people are easily caught out talking shit on forums and contradicting themselves. "Oh, these ads are so terrible, how can you defend them? I have principles and won't support this shit. It's because I care!" - No, it's cos your 360 died. Before that, you managed to ignore the ads just fine.

...and this statement is based on what? If I was that interested in wasting my time I could dredge up plenty of old posts (pre-360 death) where I was consistent with my stance now. Yes, I've owned a 360 and paid for Gold for a good while, but I don't anymore and would never again. It's as simple as that.

It's a nice try at invalidating my opinion, though.

 

[surly]

...and this statement is based on what? If I was that interested in wasting my time I could dredge up plenty of old posts (pre-360 death) where I was consistent with my stance now. Yes, I've owned a 360 and paid for Gold for a good while, but I don't anymore and would never again. It's as simple as that.

So what changed to make you go from thinking that Live was the "best online system", to one you would never pay for again? Apart from your 360 getting the RROD (i.e. the real reason, but humour me).

Maybe one day my 360 will get the RROD and then I'll develop a hate for MS's business practices too. Then, like you, I can move on to playing games on Microsoft Windows and Microsoft's GFWL service. That'll show 'em I'm a man of principles!

You're a hypocrite. You said that if people support ads, they're turning a blind eye and doing their part to eventually make this situation worse, except you paid for Gold yourself when ads were on the dashboard.

 

[Snuggles]

You're a hypocrite. You said that if people support ads, they're turning a blind eye and doing their part to eventually make this situation worse, except you paid for Gold yourself when ads were on the dashboard.

I paid for Live because I had no choice if I wanted to play the games I owned online with the system. I certainly wasn't proud of it. That part is true, but you'd never find me defending the ads or trying to spin them as a positive. Even then, I felt like a sucker for supporting that kind of thing.

But whatever, keep digging through my history, but it's not gonna stop me from speaking my opinion.

 

[surly]

I paid for Live because I had no choice if I wanted to play the games I owned online with the system. I certainly wasn't proud of it. That part is true, but you'd never find me defending the ads or trying to spin them as a positive. Even then, I felt like a sucker for supporting that kind of thing.

But whatever, keep digging through my history, but it's not gonna stop me from speaking my opinion.

Did you really mean to link to that thread? You know it contains this, right?........

but if I'm missing out without Gold I'm fine with ditching my values......

LOL.

Besides, that post had nothing to do with ads. You were "protesting" over the $10 price rise, but even then, you said you were fine with ditching your values if you were missing out. Fight the power man!

I've seen all I need to see of your posting history. Enough to know that you're a hypocrite.

 

[Maleficence]

You're being a creepy arsehole surly, as well as a complete corporate shill.

 

[Snuggles]

Fair enough, my dark secrets have been exposed. All that really matters in the end is that I no longer have to justify (or tolerate) that kind of stuff. It's nice.

 

[Uno Venova]

You're being a creepy arsehole surly, as well as a complete corporate shill.

The vast majority of posts in this thread are from him, dat one man defense force.

 

[surly]

You're being a creepy arsehole surly, as well as a complete corporate shill.

If you post on a public forum with a search feature, don't complain if someone happens to dig up something you've said in the past.

And fuck your "corporate shill" nonsense. Some of the people in this thread are trying WAY too hard to blow this out of proportion. Some are just going on crazy rants at the 360 in general, talking about how it's a torrent client eating up your bandwidth and that Live is just SegaNET rebranded, LOL. I love gaming forums.

 

[Woo-Fu]

It is the same lock-in Microsoft practices in pretty much every one of their other business units. Now that you've got your achievements, gamerscore, and friendslist on their platform they know they can start pushing stuff that would turn new customers off but that existing customers will put up with since they feel they have no choice.

 

[alr1ght]

I really hope you're getting paid for this.

 

[Snuggles]

I really hope you're getting paid for this.

Careful, he could be googling you right now.

 

[alr1ght]

I can save him the trouble.

I own a 360 and Ps3, don't pay for live, and find it hilarious that people welcome these or any ads on a paid service.

 

[surly]

I really hope you're getting paid for this.

For what? Expressing my opinion on a forum and responding to posts directed at me? Because I've had a great experience with Live overall and can ignore a few ads, I'm some paid stooge? Piss off.

Careful, he could be googling you right now.

Sorry that I made you look like a hypocrite. You could have avoided that easily by not being one though!

 

[Tiduz]

defending ads?

now ive truly seen it all

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

defending ads?

now ive truly seen it all

Have you?

Can I pm the links to a couple advertising experiences that my market research tells me you would like?

 

[Snuggles]

Sorry that I made you look like a hypocrite. You could have avoided that easily by not being one though!

No, you attempted to invalidate my opinion with character assassination by the way of Google search. Not only was it desperate to an extreme, but it doesn't really prove anything. Anyone who knows me on this forum knows that I've owned an Xbox 360.

But whatever, it comes with the territory. I apologize to the rest of GAF for having to read this shitfest that I took part in.

 

[Sydle]

defending ads?

now ive truly seen it all

It's far more logical than defending the idea of having to visit gaming forums or third-party sites frequently to keep up everything.

 

[GorillaJu]

Fair enough, my dark secrets have been exposed. All that really matters in the end is that I no longer have to justify (or tolerate) that kind of stuff. It's nice.

Well I agree with your standpoint completely so you're not alone there.

The comparison with Steam was made but there's a significant difference in that Steam isn't an operating system. How would you all feel if an ad popped up in your start menu or whenever you brought back your computer from sleep?

It's all about interruption. Gaming is like many other hobbies an escapist hobby. I'm happy to buy expensive machines so I can enjoy my escapism and enjoy my toys. Ads on the dashboard interrupt that experience. I'm sick of more and more of my space being invaded

 

[ghst]

For what? Expressing my opinion on a forum and responding to posts directed at me? Because I've had a great experience with Live overall and can ignore a few ads, I'm some paid stooge? Piss off.

it's not that you're a paid stooge, it's that you're indistinguishable from a paid stooge; it's something to be proud of! when crunch time is over, the cocaine dries up and the smell of last night's dinner date starts to emanate from the trash bag in the trunk, it's the thought of good people like you that keeps marketing execs from turning the ignition key and letting monoxide's sweet kiss take all the pain away.

 

[Neuromancer]

it's not that you're a paid stooge, it's that you're indistinguishable from a paid stooge; it's something to be proud of! when crunch time is over, the cocaine dries up and the smell of last night's dinner date starts to emanate from the trash bag in the trunk, it's the thought of good people like you that keeps marketing execs from turning the ignition key and letting monoxide's sweet kiss take all the pain away.

Haha holy shit dude

 

[mintylurb]

it's not that you're a paid stooge, it's that you're indistinguishable from a paid stooge; it's something to be proud of! when crunch time is over, the cocaine dries up and the smell of last night's dinner date starts to emanate from the trash bag in the trunk, it's the thought of good people like you that keeps marketing execs from turning the ignition key and letting monoxide's sweet kiss take all the pain away.

Haha. I didn't think it was possible for anyone to give cjelly a run for his money.

 

[surly]

Anyone who knows me on this forum knows that I've owned an Xbox 360.

That's not the issue. The issue is that you paid for Live, describing it as "the best online system", even though it had ads and still does.

Yet in this thread you're saying that people who pay for Xbox Live Gold when it has ads are supporting some terrible business practice that's a slippery slope to "watch this 30 second ad for Burger Kind before you can play Geometry Wars" land. But of course, the fact that your 360 got the RROD has nothing to do with this!

I'll spend my money on what I like, thanks, but if you're going to try and argue the point as to why I shouldn't support a particular product or service, it's probably best if you don't spend your own money on that product or service, cos then I have no reason at all to take your seriously. Your best bet now is to try and align yourself with the GAF members who think I'm a shill and then apologise for the conversation, as that puts the focus on me and makes it look like I'm the villain - Oh wait, you've just done that.

 

[Uno Venova]

It's far more logical than defending the idea of having to visit gaming forums or third-party sites frequently to keep up everything.

What do you use instead? The dash? That doesn't have all the gaming news, your better off using an RSS.

 

[Snuggles]

Oh wait, you've just done that.

No, you've done that, surly. You're trying too hard, we can see you sweat.

Our back and forth has shit up the thread enough, but you can sleep easy tonight knowing that you've exposed the depths of my hypocracy. The world now knows that NeoGAF user Snuggler once was a Live Gold member. I'll keep on contradicting a few posts I made a year ago and you'll keep on fighting the good fight.

 

[fernoca]

Snuggler will always hold a special place in my heart for the Fable III OT. Even when he broke that heart when he started hating Fable III..and accused me of working at Gamestop last week.

And then...*voice breaking* he quotes me again in here..*cries*

Spoiler

 

[saunderez]

What do you use instead? The dash? That doesn't have all the gaming news, your better off using an RSS.

It doesn't have all gaming news, but if theres a new demo or a new XBLA game it's usually highlighted on the dash somewhere. Otherwise you need to subscribe to Major Nelson's RSS feed if you want to know when new stuff comes onto Live and he's often late.

 

[Snuggles]

Snuggler will always hold a special place in my heart for the Fable III OT. Even when he broke that heart when he started hating Fable III..and accused me of working at Gamestop last week.

I was just kidding around. I disagree with you on quite a few issues, but you know I think you're a swell guy, Fernoca. You're always so polite.

 

[Sydle]

it's not that you're a paid stooge, it's that you're indistinguishable from a paid stooge; it's something to be proud of! when crunch time is over, the cocaine dries up and the smell of last night's dinner date starts to emanate from the trash bag in the trunk, it's the thought of good people like you that keeps marketing execs from turning the ignition key and letting monoxide's sweet kiss take all the pain away.

So many words to say almost nothing.

His only mistake was continuing a conversation with the likes of GAF that lazily fall back on a point of principal. Numb skulls who can't even digest a perspective different from their own and much less produce a valid counter point.

What do you use instead? The dash? That doesn't have all the gaming news, your better off using an RSS.

You're right, it doesn't always have everything, but it covers most of it. I'll typically go one click down into Games and see the most recently added.

The only exception to this is the Indie Games channel. Microsoft has done a terrible job at promoting the good content from the mountain of shit in there, so I keep a look out for the monthly thread that ToyThatKills makes.

 

[CadetMahoney]

So is this is an American thing? Where I live in Europe, we don't get ads at all. The dashboard boots to the Spotlight section where you can see the Deal of the week and new DLC and stuff like that. But never non-game related stuff.

I always thought that channel was what everyone was raging about in this thread. . . I was like, yea cool. I'll go join the millions of others who don't care.

 

[fernoca]

I was just kidding around. I disagree with you on quite a few issues, but you know I think you're a swell guy, Fernoca. You're always so polite.

Yeah, I know.

I am actually checking around the way I post things, because in this and the Team Bondi thread (and a few others) I noticed that some took the things I said...like in completely different ways than I expected. Then again, english is not my primary language, so I guess is one of those "lost in translation" things.

 

[GTP_Daverytimes]

it's not that you're a paid stooge, it's that you're indistinguishable from a paid stooge; it's something to be proud of! when crunch time is over, the cocaine dries up and the smell of last night's dinner date starts to emanate from the trash bag in the trunk, it's the thought of good people like you that keeps marketing execs from turning the ignition key and letting monoxide's sweet kiss take all the pain away.

Said like a swell gentlemman.

So many words to say almost nothing.

His only mistake was continuing a conversation with the likes of GAF that lazily fall back on a point of principal. Numb skulls who can't even digest a perspective different from their own and much less produce a valid counter point.



You're right, it doesn't always have everything, but it covers most of it. I'll typically go one click down into Games and see the most recently added.

The only exception to this is the Indie Games channel. Microsoft has done a terrible job at promoting the good content from the mountain of shit in there, so I keep a look out for the monthly thread that ToyThatKills makes.

I argued quite a bit with fernoca and i think we came to the same conclusion, my post:

One person doesn't make a significant difference when it comes to things like these, and am pretty sure the majority of people will right it off as a mild annoyance. Back to my YouTube video comment. When they added those little pop ups it was a mild annoyance to many people (The X button was smashed before the ad even appeared) but there were others who saw that it was an avenue that was going to lead to something bigger, and it did. This is exactly that same situation, it's currently a mild annoyance and nothing you nor i do will change that (Unfortunately) but as time goes the avenue will only grow and it will reach a point were people will then start to protest but it will be too little too late (Those stupid YouTube comment's that ask for the ads to be removed, but at the end of the day they watch the video's anyways). It will grow to a point were it's no longer "pushing up on the stick" and it will become "wait 15 seconds till ad is finished".

 

[J-Rzez]

I remember when these rumors hit a while back that people were suspecting that the ads would be for Silver members and that they'd get to play the game features they paid for on the disc finally, and that Gold members would have no-ads plus their party chat. So instead MS charges more for Gold, and then lops some ads on top of the Gold subscribers. They're really pushing to see what the breaking point is for players love of party chat.

 

[Lesiroth]

I remember when these rumors hit a while back that people were suspecting that the ads would be for Silver members and that they'd get to play the game features they paid for on the disc finally, and that Gold members would have no-ads plus their party chat. So instead MS charges more for Gold, and then lops some ads on top of the Gold subscribers. They're really pushing to see what the breaking point is for players love of party chat.

Maybe there is no breaking point, they just have to push at it one step at a time?

 

[Sydle]

I argued quite a bit with fernoca and i think we came to the same conclusion, my post:

That's an excellent post...looks as if the best of the conversation has already passed and the last few pages is just typical horseshit of a spent topic on GAF. Should have known with the usual suspects and all.