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European Parliament Elections 2014 |OT| The Undemocratic EU is Actually Elected

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Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
I abstained in the end too.

Alright alright, I just forgot I was going to be in Thailand/Malaysia and my postal vote didn't arrive before I left. But I was thinking of spoiling my ballot anyway :p
 
E

Eric_S

Member
Blablurn said:
Voted!

Yay Democracy
Click to expand...

Good for you!

The commission may be elected by democratically elected governments. But getting a bit more of a say over the branch that proposes laws by influencing the vote of the head of the commission feels important to me.
 
Z

Zornica

Banned
I think I made up my mind.

I want these hurtful austerity politics to end, and juncker nor merkel are going to stop them obviously.

There seems to be only one way, and I guess I'll bite the bullet this time, I hope it helps our brethren in the south.
 
O

Onyar

Member
I will vote for the greens, for a different Europe and a better ecosystem.

So I will vote for the V chick :$
 
M

McNum

Member
And done. Voted as well. It may just be one vote in a sea of millions, but at the very least, I can be grumpy about the EU without feeling like a hypocrite now. So, yay.
 
B

Blablurn

Member
Eric_S said:
Good for you!

The commission may be elected by democratically elected governments. But getting a bit more of a say over the branch that proposes laws by influencing the vote of the head of the commission feels important to me.
Click to expand...

You can't have it all.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
McNum said:
And done. Voted as well. It may just be one vote in a sea of millions, but at the very least, I can be grumpy about the EU without feeling like a hypocrite now. So, yay.
Click to expand...

I think if you disagree with the existence of the European Parliament, not voting in their elections is pretty much exactly what you should be doing. No hypocracy imo.

But yeah, if you just don't like who's representing you there you should probably vote. I have a similar "no vote, no grumble" policy with General Elections.
 
Forsete

Forsete

Gold Member
QuicheFontaine said:
I think if you disagree with the existence of the European Parliament, not voting in their elections is pretty much exactly what you should be doing. No hypocracy imo.

But yeah, if you just don't like who's representing you there you should probably vote. I have a similar "no vote, no grumble" policy with General Elections.
Click to expand...

Or vote for a anti-EU party if you want your country to exit. Not voting is not caring.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Forsete said:
Or vote for a anti-EU party if you want your country to exit. Not voting is not caring.
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No. It's been said before in this thread that voting for an anti-EU party is ineffectual, because the MEPs you elect are unable to affect your country's relationship with the EU.

I guess voting in UKIP "sends a message"? But in reality it just wastes everyone's time and money since they don't (and can't) do anything.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Is Belgium an exception or was virtually no media attention dedicated to these elections as opposed to the country's own elections in general?
 
Forsete

Forsete

Gold Member
QuicheFontaine said:
No. It's been said before in this thread that voting for an anti-EU party is ineffectual, because the MEPs you elect are unable to affect your country's relationship with the EU.

I guess voting in UKIP "sends a message"? But in reality it just wastes everyone's time and money since they don't (and can't) do anything.
Click to expand...

I still think it is better to get the point across rather than to do nothing.
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
Forsete said:
I still think it is better to get the point across rather than to do nothing.
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Fair enough, but I disagree. Someone upthread said Slovakia had a 13% turnout for these. If that was the case in the UK I'm sure there would be real questions raised about our relationship with the EU (more than there are already).
 
C

cartesian

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
No. It's been said before in this thread that voting for an anti-EU party is ineffectual, because the MEPs you elect are unable to affect your country's relationship with the EU.

I guess voting in UKIP "sends a message"? But in reality it just wastes everyone's time and money since they don't (and can't) do anything.
Click to expand...
And how is not voting at all any more "effectual"?

You say that voting for UKIP merely "sends a message", as if not even turning up to vote is somehow more a potent tactic. If anything, not voting at all only sends a vaguer, apathetic message.

You're moving the goal posts.

Spoiling your ballot at least shows you're actively protesting, tuned in and ready to vote for an alternative. Switching off completely is like turning a blind eye.
 
Forsete

Forsete

Gold Member
QuicheFontaine said:
Fair enough, but I disagree. Someone upthread said Slovenia had a 13% turnout for these. If that was the case in the UK I'm sure there would be real questions raised about our relationship with the EU (more than there are already).
Click to expand...

Is that 13% due to apathy or anti-EUism? See, we dont know. :p
Turnout in Sweden seems to be a bit north of 50%. National election (2010) was 84,63 %.
 
Z

Zornica

Banned
Forsete said:
I still think it is better to get the point across rather than to do nothing.
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To be honest, I'd rather have people do nothing than fuck everybody over by voting for a bunch of useless criminals. I wish there was an english analogue for "Bauernfänger", because that's exactly what they are.

QuicheFontaine said:
Fair enough, but I disagree. Someone upthread said Slovenia had a 13% turnout for these. If that was the case in the UK I'm sure there would be real questions raised about our relationship with the EU (more than there are already).
Click to expand...

slovakia ;)
 
Q

QuicheFontaine

Member
cartesian said:
And how is not voting at all any more "effectual"?

You say that voting for UKIP merely "sends a message", as if not even turning up to vote is somehow more a potent tactic. If anything, not voting at all only sends a vaguer, apathetic message.

You're moving the goal posts.

Spoiling your ballot at least shows you're actively protesting, tuned in and ready to vote for an alternative. Switching off completely is like turning a blind eye.
Click to expand...

I...what? Goalposts? I don't know what you're on about.

And for the record, I intended to spoil my ballot, but ended up abstaining due to my own ineptitude and lack of preparedness. Forsete suggested that voting for an anti-EU party would be preferable, but I don't see how voting for a reprehensible anti-science, anti-gay party (UKIP) better conveys that I'd prefer Britain to be out of the EU. All they would do is doss around on the very gravy train they themselves bemoan.

Forsete said:
Is that 13% due to apathy or anti-EUism? See, we dont know. :p
Turnout in Sweden seems to be a bit north of 50%. National election (2010) was 84,63 %.
Click to expand...

Probably a combination. But I think one takeaway of those numbers is that they don't seem to reflect engagement by the general public of the European Parliament elections.

Edit:

Zornica said:
slovakia ;)
Click to expand...

Ack! Sorry! I'll edit that.
 
C

ComputerMKII

Banned
cartesian said:
And how is not voting at all any more "effectual"?

You say that voting for UKIP merely "sends a message", as if not even turning up to vote is somehow more a potent tactic. If anything, not voting at all only sends a vaguer, apathetic message.

You're moving the goal posts.

Spoiling your ballot at least shows you're actively protesting, tuned in and ready to vote for an alternative. Switching off completely is like turning a blind eye.
Click to expand...

Abstaining is a different political act than spoiling your vote. Spoiling your vote means to agree with the institutions but not with the candidates. Not voting means not agreeing with the institutions.

I'm interested in politics and I think not voting is a good solution. 'Politics' in our democracies is a dirty, populist game with a touch of advertising. I don't want to take part in it and I'd rather help boosting the abstention scores than help reducing the FN's (or anyone else's).
 
M

McNum

Member
QuicheFontaine said:
I think if you disagree with the existence of the European Parliament, not voting in their elections is pretty much exactly what you should be doing. No hypocracy imo.

But yeah, if you just don't like who's representing you there you should probably vote. I have a similar "no vote, no grumble" policy with General Elections.
Click to expand...
I like the EU in general, but there aren't many of the candidates that I like. Seems like Net Neutrality and consumer protection online aren't big issues for most of the candidates here, when that's sort of what I want the EU to crack down on and make sure the internet stays open, at least in the EU.

Denmark needs a to copy Sweden and get ourselves a Pirate Party, or similar.
 
M

Mr. RHC

Member
ComputerMKII said:
Abstaining is a different political act than spoiling your vote. Spoiling your vote means to agree with the institutions but not with the candidates. Not voting means not agreeing with the institutions.
Click to expand...

I think this can only be an assumption. People also vote if they don't agree with the institutions to get rid of them. It can mean anything, whatever you decide to do, vote, don't vote etc.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Mr. RHC said:
I think this can only be an assumption. People also vote if they don't agree with the institutions to get rid of them. It can mean anything, whatever you decide to do, vote, don't vote etc.
Click to expand...

But either way it raises questions over the legitimacy of the mandate of the EUP, which is what those that wish to disengage want. On A 20% turnout, it's hard to defend the idea that people are happy about that body making laws.
 
B

Bedameister

Member
So, first numbers from Germany are here

chart_2540615.png
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Pretty good result for social democrats. Liberal decline is continuing. Good result for EU-sceptics

These are only the german results
 
K

kitch9

Banned
Zornica said:
I think I made up my mind.

I want these hurtful austerity politics to end, and juncker nor merkel are going to stop them obviously.

There seems to be only one way, and I guess I'll bite the bullet this time, I hope it helps our brethren in the south.
Click to expand...

Yeah, lets just make our kids pay for it all.
 
C

Chariot

Member
Fucking AfD, why do they still take 6,5% after months of bullshit and media coverage about that bullshit? This is a disgrace.
 
N

Novak

Member
just voted....2 minutes before closing :)

it was close....i parked my car in right in front of the entry (and no parking sign :) ), put on 4 blinking turn signals ( or whatever is that called) and ran upstairs...

luckly no police or this would be my most expensive elections :)
 
B

Bedameister

Member
Novak said:
just voted....2 minutes before closing :)

it was close....i parked my car in right in front of the entry (and no parking sign :) ), put on 4 blinking turn signals ( or whatever is that called) and ran upstairs...

luckly no police or this would be my most expensive elections :)
Click to expand...

Europe's so proud of you :')
 
C

Chariot

Member
Novak said:
just voted....2 minutes before closing :)

it was close....i parked my car in right in front of the entry (and no parking sign :) ), put on 4 blinking turn signals ( or whatever is that called) and ran upstairs...

luckly no police or this would be my most expensive elections :)
Click to expand...
"You can't punish me, I was saving Europe!"
 
I

ICKE

Banned
Left wing coalition is gaining a lot of traction in the Finnish early results. The main message to take so far : Eurosceptics are getting blown the fuck up so a bit different when compared to other countries.
 
A

Atruvius

Member
I voted for Olli Rehn a week ago. As the European Commissioner for Economic and Monetary Affairs and the Euro I'm sure he knows his shit.
 
I

ICKE

Banned
Leader of the left alliance Arhinmäki just in national TV:

"While these results are good for us, the most notable message is coming from Netherlands where the far right party has received a serious blow. Hopefully we will see similar results across Europe and the far right is defeated"

Will be interesting to see what the dynamic is in different countries tonight.
 
E

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
I'm thinking outside of the UK and France, right-wings won't make much strides.
 
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