This isn't a first past the post election.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
European Parliament Elections 2014 |OT| The Undemocratic EU is Actually Elected
- Thread starter anonymous_abc
- Start date
- Status
This isn't a first past the post election.
The FN got 25% of the vote, not 51% or more.
Palette Swap
Member
That's the thing, these far right parties never let details like facts or practicality get in the way of riling everyone up.
I'm really curious to see how they'll still blame everything on Brussels once they are Brussels.
Bullshit. Tell us which other big parties were anti-EU? Did they have even a fraction of the exposure Le Pen did? Or do you really expect the average voter in any country to vote for a random anti-EU party they found on the internet? There's zero logic in your argument.
The FN a far-right party most people would rightfully never vote for was the winner by a large margin.
Sickboy007
Member
Grillo calling himself the heir of Berlnguer, the late leader of the PCI, and the PD squabbling with him about it.
A completely preposterous polemic to court some older left voters.
That's such a cop out. A lot of people in France voted for a political party that has extremist views on immigration among other things.
And how should the European Union react to this result exactly? 25% of the vote? The only reaction will be a bunch of morons complicating things in the parliament and then the same people who vote these representatives in will complain how the system is dysfunctional and how the elites only drink coffee in Brussels without doing actual work etc.
Right oriented parties won in Slovenia, they got 5 of 8 seats. Also, only 22,74% of voters cast their vote, this is the smallest percentage since our independence in 1991. People are just fed up with politics (we will have another elections in the middel of the summer, because our government bailed) and only right wing supporters went en masse to vote.
Yeah, I looked him up now. He doesn't seem quite as bad as Friedman, who'll gladly lie to make a point and immediately plays the antisemitism card when you call him out on his bullshit, but it's kinda weird that the AfD didn't make Henkel the face of the party.
Anyway, the AfD is a strange party. I strongly agree with a lot of their ideas and strongly disagree with others. In all, they seem mostly centre right to me, built in parts on the remnants of the crumbling FDP, but too young to have a strong identity yet, so you pretty much always end up with questionable stuff. Visible here in Thuringia for example, where the party is mostly busy self-destructing on its way to form one. Then again, even the Pirate Party had and still has right and left hardliners who have a voice because the party as a whole doesn't have one.
It's not a cop-out, when democracy gives people no other choice they're forced to vote for these scum. Either EU has to be dissolved before the anti-EU sentiment throughout the continent translates to governing far-right parties or some big parties have to become anti-EU which will result to the dissolution again. This is nightmare fuel and a real threat now. The media as usual are trying to downplay these results but this is getting really scary.
leatherhat
Member
This is why right wing parties are growing. Not wanting open borders with the entire world is an "extremist" view. Feel free to keep blasting them as far right lunatics, despite sharing hesitations about immigration and the EU with a lot of everyday French people. It only serves to make the left seem even more out of touch.
MilkyOctave
Member
I think True Finns lost because they turned their backs on their voters. They were less anti-EU, more pro-NATO, pro-TPP etc. than usual. It's interesting to see how things are gonna turn up in the next national parliament elections next year (or sooner if the coalition falls apart, lol).
I wonder how Jasup feels about socialdemocratics' current situation. They took a hard blow which was probably expected. Hopefully he didn't work overtime. :x
Anyway, I'm glad Left Alliance got that one seat.
I'm very disappointed at my generation.
The social conservatives are politically active at grass roots level across the globe. Republicans will vote next autumn and might take the senate, the isolationist parties have minority support in Europe but at least those people take their time and vote for their representatives.
In some countries only 20% voted. What the fuck is wrong with young people who are unemployed and still are not willing to at least make themselves heard. Vote for left wing candidates, greens or anyone you feel will steer your community into a better future. I can guarantee the voting percentage is not so low among older people. While I might not share their conservative ideology I can give them respect for exercising their rights...
The social conservatives are politically active at grass roots level across the globe. Republicans will vote next autumn and might take the senate, the isolationist parties have minority support in Europe but at least those people take their time and vote for their representatives.
In some countries only 20% voted. What the fuck is wrong with young people who are unemployed and still are not willing to at least make themselves heard. Vote for left wing candidates, greens or anyone you feel will steer your community into a better future. I can guarantee the voting percentage is not so low among older people. While I might not share their conservative ideology I can give them respect for exercising their rights...
Pizza con salsiccia
Banned
So does most of the UMP.
Well yeah you're right, but we were talking about FN, so I just pointed out that fact because it seemed relevant to me.
That should be true for every serious party. Even if you look at the programm of the NPD you will find a lot of stuff where you might think "yeah, that isn't bad". Those people want to get many votes and some things just make sense. Who ever would demand poverty and unhealthyness for all? Its the detail and the experience with the behaviour of the party.
So? You said the French people had decided to leave the EU. But if we just take these election results, that would be actually against a majority.
michaelius
Banned
Left wing ruled most of Europe for last few years - this election is huge red card shown to them by people.
I've seen enough posters during the last ten years to say they have extremist views. From Le Pen saying that millions of people should be shipped out via force to various representatives demonizing Muslims.
Look I often disagree with left wingers in my country but lets keep it real here. Europe has been rather conservative, more so than the US, when we look at the financial recovery measures since the crisis.
And an observation. Many of you people are like frogs in boiling water. Some years back you would be genuinely scared if you saw these results throughout Europe but now you're like um OK. What do you want to happen, see far-right governments in Europe before getting scared?
These people are gaining political influence and power which they will use to further promote their influence and fucked up agendas, you know that right? You're dangerously irresponsible imo.
These people are gaining political influence and power which they will use to further promote their influence and fucked up agendas, you know that right? You're dangerously irresponsible imo.
what? Let me correct that for you
cascardian
Member
It's in times like these when I wonder if compulsory voting should be instituted to counteract the declining rates of voters. Democracy as a whole might in fact be better off if people were to yield to that one small inconvenience.
Me_Marcadet
Member
Exactly, immigration is not necessary a good or bad thing.
I'm against immigration of poor people who got their home country spoiled and are led to believe Europe is the Eldorado.
With this kind of immigration everyone lose.
Obviously. Either way, all parties met some of my KO criteria, which is why I didn't vote at all. Felt like choosing between pestilence and cholera.
Not voting is bad. It gives more power to the extreme parties. Just vote for CDU or SPD, they're nearly the same anyway. Or, I dunno, vote for Die Partei.
Right wing veering to the far right and center right parties calling themselves left wing rule Europe. People want more of this and the real deal.
anonymous_abc
Member
Oh my..
OK dude keep the blinders on, it sure worked great for other societies in the past. I don't know what else I can say to wake you people up, keep going in the same path and see what happens.
Mt Heart Attack
Member
For all his flaws, he's not a Nazi nutcase though. If anything, his party is closer to a far left party than far right.
Funny I would say most right wing parties are right wing in name only. Compare them to American right or European right of 40 years ago. Pretty sure La Pen is on the left economically as well.
Pizza con salsiccia
Banned
Finally something you and me agree on!
We need real changes, quick.
Not gonna happen though.
I'm sympathetic to the idea - democracy works much better when people engage intelligently with it - but I worry that falling turnout is merely the symptom and not the root problem. We need to start a conversation about meaningful structural political and social reform.
UK results due in about two hours. Expect to see the far-right make big gains here too. :/
Eh, I don't vote for joke parties even if they're funny, and there's hardly a lesser evil I could vote for without feeling bad. And, you know, it doesn't really matter if idiots and extremists like NPD or Tierschutzpartei get a seat, because their representatives will most likely be absent all the time, anyway. Just like a Die Partei representative would.
While the EU has unjustly been a scapegoat for many things going wrong, it is also an institution that has absolutely failed at reaching the voter, and to many, it is still a faceless entity with some economic advantages (that are waning). For a democratic institution that is a big problem.
Forcing people to vote on something they don't care about doesn't seem like a good way to solve the issue.
I am not gonna tell you what you have to do, but I think, that its dangerous to stop caring.
It's painful to have relatives who share these notions.
But despite the fact that I disagree with some members here and the ideology of FN, I have to give respect for their political activity and resilience. If you are not willing to vote, you deserve to be annihilated - politically.
There are already restrictions in the European treaties where citizens who cannot economically sustain themselves are unable to permanently reside in another member state after a period of 3 months. That seems like it should already satisfy what you've identified as a supposed problem, no?
Should the political beliefs of a wide variety of people really be cast aside simply because they feel disenfranchised or betrayed by party politics and thus don't vote? In the UK, if we're talking national level for a second, the main parties are viewed by many as different shades of the same colour, which creates a disconnect between them and a significant number of people. Asking those same people to vote in an election for a legal and political body which they feel even more disconnected from, whether due to ignorance, misinformation or another reason, simply isn't going to happen.
I actually do care, that's exactly my dilemma. If I didn't, I'd just vote for CDU and be done with it, but all that would achieve is causing a standstill, and I'm not exactly a fan of the current status quo. Not voting might have resulted in the NPD getting a seat, but at the same time, it also gave parties with a completely different agenda a seat. In the end, not voting increases the entropy, and maybe a higher entropy will lead to broader discussions and results (or compromises) I'll ultimately find more agreeable than those dictated by the agendas of the large parties (if the representatives actually show up, that is). Or maybe not. It's obviously a gamble, but one I'm willing to take until there's a party I deem worthy of my support.
I'm sorry but I believe these days the political landscape makes it easier to enact change if we compare the situation to our parents generation. Even back then civil rights movements, speaking for minority rights and so on took place even though society as a whole was very conservative and a sandbox for good old boys to fool around .
But you are saying it's too much to ask that people would take a few hours of their day to go through candidates and eventually write a number to a piece of paper? I
cascardian
Member
Indeed, but I fear that meaningful social reform that engages the young people of today would simply not be realistically possible, given the stances of conservative parties throughout Europe. Instead, I fear for a future of secretly negotiated TPP-lookalikes continually grinding away at our MEPs and an overall increase of curtailment of civil liberties.
Compulsory voting seems like a good stopgap measure at least, stemming the tide of far-right extremism and, at least over a generation or two, instilling a sense of civic duty, perchance? Especially since the barrage of the Murdoch empire largely responsible for what happened Australia has little power in Europe, so I don't really anticipate widespread propaganda happening in the way it inundated Australians. We'd have a good base for something like compulsory voting to have a chance to shine.
Well, we shall see what the future brings.
Diversity of parties could end well, but it reminds me personaly of the Weimarer Republik. Even with two parties at power we have in germany problems to decide things. Take a look at Hamburg, with a single SPD government its doing really well. Most likely not because its the SPD, but because they don't have to throw shit at another party half of the day and getting shit thrown at them the other half.
Compulsory voting could also have the complete opposite effect. In fact, I'd consider it actually quite dangerous.
- Status