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[Marc]

If that's the case, then why does the poster ask the question, then have a finger pointing at the UK readership? Why? You haven't answered that. You can't just go "oh, well of course, no-on realistically expects 26 million people to come over" because that's not what I'm saying. I don't believe that to be the case either. My point was that UKIP specifically campaigned with that point in mind.

It's not mental gymnastics to look at a poster asking a question, pointing a finger at the reader, and then thinking the intended answer is the reader themself. It is, I think, mental gymnastics to take that same poster with that same pointing finger, and argue that it is doing anything other than singling out the UK electorate, in this case by pointing to them when asking whose jobs these 26 million EU jobless are after.

UKIP made the poster, they're the ones arguing that point. Conceding that it's a factually incorrect point doesn't change the fact they put it on their bloody poster.

I did answer it and provided evidence that backs that answer up. I asked for evidence of a single voter actually believing YOUR interpretation, in which you have to replace words in the poster with your own. Yet to see that however.

That is what you are saying as you replaced looking at with actually coming over. The poster doesn't say coming over so why would I defend something that isn't actually there. The point being made is that they can look at those jobs and apply to them, not that all of them will. Having more people 'able' to apply increases the likelihood of it, not the overall job applications. The point was made to Farage and clarified that is indeed the correct interpretation, that they have the right to apply, but the actual amount that will apply are far less but increased as a result of the being able to. Which is the point being made, if you have 0.0001% of a 'native' population of 60 million applying for a job and now made it applicable to 400 million others. Then guess what, you are likely to see an increase in line with that applicable population.

The finger is clearly pointing to the UK voters as those affected, no shit, it is a UK election. I don't see the big deal in that, to be more accurate you would have a finger pointing to every EU member but that would be harder to fit on a poster I imagine.

They are not arguing the point you have interpreted by changing words though, I just posted evidence of that. I can't find anyone that is saying 26 million people are coming over apart from the people who are debating against it. I have seen posters about benefits which say something along the lines of "13 million qualify for this tax break", that doesn't mean 13 million people are using it.

 

[Sickboy007]

I don't know if I'd categorize M5S as "strongly eurosceptic". They asked for a referendum, but they really don't have a program about the EU. Beppe Grillo's electoral promise was to speak in gibberish German to Angela Merkel and...not much else.

 

[Kurtofan]

Their positives outweigh their negatives. Infrastructure, bridges, education, economy. Yeah they were asshats in some other regards especially with their colonies and wars but you can't erase the good they they did.

Lisbon didn't even have a bridge before for Christ's sake. Someone had to build one, and it wasn't the commies that built it. It's still the Salazar Bridge in my book

Only fascists can build bridges. Is Stalin cool because he modernized Russia?

 

[phaze]

Official results in Poland:

PO (Center right leaning left lately) - 32,13% -19 mandates

Pis (Right Wing) - 31.78 % - 19 mandates

SLD-UP (Left Wing) - 9.44 %

Nowa Prawica ("New Right") - 7.15 %

PSL (I've no clue) - 6.80 %


PO hasn't lost an election in 7 last years I think. But there is clearly a fatigue and I don't think Tusk (prime minister and the party leader) will get away with it in the next election. In the words of a renown district attorney: "You either leave a popular politician or you rule, long enough see yourself become the villain".

 

[kitch9]

When a politician resorts to asking "Well, what is racism?" after dodging the question on whether he actually is racist, I think it's rather telling. No-one ever should give a rhetorical question as an answer to a fundamental question of ethics like that.

"Titus, are you Fascist?"
"Well, I mean, what is Fascism? Is it about economics? Is it about nationalism? Is it about racism? What do we mean by Fascism? It's very hard to answer if we don't clearly state what the question means."
"Titus, are you a homophobe?"
"Well, what is homophobia? Is it about traditional Christian values? Is it about bigotry? Is it about whether being gay is biological or learned? I can't really answer the question if we don't clearly lay out what is specifically meant by the term homophobia."
"Titus, are you a member of the KKK?"
"Well, what do you mean by the KKK? Do you mean the original KKK formed by Confederate veterans after the American civil war? Do you mean the early 20th Century iteration of the KKK? or the later version that was created after the Civil Rights movement of the 50s and 60s? It's such an incredibly hard question to answer if we don't clearly state what the KKK is."

I dunno I've lost track of what racism is:

UKIP voters get called racist and they voted for the party that wants a points based immigration system which is the same for anyone regardless of where they came from.

Those who vote for all the other EU parties aren't racist even though the current immigration system rejects applications from applicants outside the EU simply because they aren't from the EU.

You tell me what is racism?

 

[michaelius]

PSL (I've no clue) - 6.80 %

Center/conservatist but they are political whores who will go to bed with anyone who gives them high enough number of places in goverment

 

[SporeCrawler]

so can we expect that france and UK will leave the EU soon?

at least with UK it looks pretty likely at this point and once UK is gone Front national may have even more momentum to convince france to leave..

 

[Meadows]

so can we expect that france and UK will leave the EU soon?

at least with UK it looks pretty likely at this point and once UK is gone Front national may have even more momentum to convince france to leave..

Latest opinion poll:

Out: 36%
In: 42%

Don't be so sure

 

[Nikodemos]

Is there any source for a breakdown of type of jobs immigrants into the UK take up? I've been trying to find one and am struggling.

I doubt you'd find any in English. It's mostly a local news issue; I'm pretty certain international mass-media didn't pick it up.

The only reason Poland barely suffered during peak of european crissis is because our currency lost 25% to Euro on exchange rates which made us super competitive against Eurozone which saved workplaces here.

And also because it never adopted pro-cyclic credit-spending economic measures like many of its neighbours did. Central bank interest rate remained relatively high and loan requirements as well.

 

[Yen]

It's looking like Northern Ireland's sitting MEPs will be returned:

1. Sinn Fein: Nationalist/Republican, Pro-EU, Left, Liberal
2. DUP: Unionist, Eurosceptic, Very Right, Very Conservative
3. UUP: Unionist, Eurosceptic, Right, Conservative

The DUP and UUP recently voted against legislation on violence against women in the EU Parliament. In a recent tv debate, they both championed how they have squeezed funds from the EU (and that is why they should be reelected) and yet they both want out.

On the domestic front, the DUP really are a nasty piece of work. Homophobic, bigoted, anti-science. Really make UKIP look like pussycats at times.

 

[kitch9]

Latest opinion poll:

Out: 36%
In: 42%

Don't be so sure

It's too close to call, I think the EU question is far too complicated to ask for simple yes or no answer. I think we should stay in but I think we need more control over the movement of people with some kind of priority and benefits given to people to move where skills are needed instead of people rocking up wherever they think they will get rich or free stuff.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Great article on ukip on the guardian here, they speak to the founder of the party. He seems really bitter toward Farage so I don't know how much is true, but very entertaining read. Here is a flavour:

Any vote for Ukip in the European poll, says Sked, was wasted. "If you elect a Ukip MEP, you're just going to elect another incompetent charlatan that you're going to turn into another millionaire. They go native in Brussels, take the expenses and the perks and do fuck all."

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...steins-monster

 

[ComputerMKII]

so can we expect that france and UK will leave the EU soon?

If only...

 

[Volotaire]

Great article on ukip on the guardian here, they speak to the founder of the party. He seems really bitter toward Farage so I don't know how much is true, but very entertaining read. Here is a flavour:



http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...steins-monster

The claims are true however, the amount of work they put in compared to other parties work for the EU has been relatively small. It is one thing to be ideologically against the EU, and another to abstain from votes and etc. There needs to be a better way of highlighting the individual's MEP's work to the electorate. The line about the millionaire in the article is not needed however.

EDIT: Hey, it's an article from a professor form the London School of Economics! My uni.

Thanks for this article, I can definitely see where he is coming from saying that his teaching here made him more euroskeptical.

 

[Nikodemos]

The claims are true however, the amount of work they put in compared to other parties work for the EU has been relatively small. It is one thing to be ideologically against the EU, and another to abstain from votes and etc. There needs to be a better way of highlighting the individual's MEP's work to the electorate. The line about the millionaire in the article is not needed however.

Yes, the 'milionaire' thing is pure hyperbole. While it's true that MEP salaries are very good, even by Belgian standards (~7000 euros + extra perks, I've heard rumoured) you aren't likely to become a milionare by the next elections (when you're likely to get kicked out) even if you are exceedingly frugal with your expenses.

But yes, the majority of people who end up as MEPs and lack a clear agenda generally go AWOL, collecting their paychecks and playing truant on most if not all sessions.

 

[Volotaire]

Yes, the 'milionaire' thing is pure hyperbole. While it's true that MEP salaries are very good, even by Belgian standards (~7000 euros + extra perks, I've heard rumoured) you aren't likely to become a milionare by the next elections (when you're likely to get kicked out) even if you are exceedingly frugal with your expenses.

But yes, the majority of people who end up as MEPs and lack a clear agenda generally go AWOL, collecting their paychecks and playing truant on most if not all sessions.

It's hard to get that fine line with conditioning of voting or attending these parliamentary sessions and allowing 'freedom of speech/to act' in these political roles/jobs. It's a shame that so much of the productive potential the role can do can go to waste.

 

[Farks!]

I dunno I've lost track of what racism is:

UKIP voters get called racist and they voted for the party that wants a points based immigration system which is the same for anyone regardless of where they came from.

Those who vote for all the other EU parties aren't racist even though the current immigration system rejects applications from applicants outside the EU simply because they aren't from the EU.

You tell me what is racism?

I don't know how britains immigration system works, but the whole "immigration is costly" scheme is set up to specifically cater to racists and xenophobes who are looking for a way to legitimize their feelings towards foreigners. People don't vote for these parties because they want to fix the actual issues with immigration policy, they vote for them because they want to see it end all togheter.

 

[kitch9]

I don't know how britains immigration system works, but the whole "immigration is costly" scheme is set up to specifically cater to racists and xenophobes who are looking for a way to legitimize their feelings towards foreigners. People don't vote for these parties because they want to fix the actual issues with immigration policy, they vote for them because they want to see it end all togheter.

Nope.

 

[Palette Swap]

Jesus, I don't know how much the past few hours have been publicized internationally but Copé's house of cards is crumbling pretty quickly.

Dude will probably be out of a job by tomorrow evening, half his buddies are already dumping him. The ides of March have come to UMP.

This might sound off topic but this is part cause / part effect of yesterday's debacle for the French right.

 

[kitch9]

Jesus, I don't know how much the past few hours have been publicized internationally but Copé's house of cards is crumbling pretty quickly.

Dude will probably be out of a job by tomorrow evening, half his buddies are already dumping him. The ides of March have come to UMP.

This might sound off topic but this is part cause / part effect of yesterday's debacle for the French right.

The French are behaving how I expected them to behave.

 

[Farks!]

Nope.

Ok? And? Do you understand how populism works?

 

[kitch9]

Ok? And? Do you understand how populism works?

Yes

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Latest opinion poll:

Out: 36%
In: 42%

Don't be so sure

May I ask where you are getting these polling figures ?

 

[Palette Swap]

The French are behaving how I expected them to behave.

I sure as shit didn't expect the biggest party in the country to explode so quickly and so publicly TBH. They're pretty much flinging shit at each other at this point.

Then again, it's a survival matter for them right now.

 

[kitch9]

I sure as shit didn't expect the biggest party in the country to explode so quickly and so publicly TBH. They're pretty much flinging shit at each other at this point.

Then again, it's a survival matter for them right now.

The French just tend to be the more extravagant of the rest of the EU.

Not sure why that is...

 

[Walshicus]

Those who vote for all the other EU parties aren't racist even though the current immigration system rejects applications from applicants outside the EU simply because they aren't from the EU.

That's not why they aren't rejected; they're rejected because they don't meet the criteria of whatever member state they wish to move into. When it comes to EU citizens there *isn't* an immigration policy because from the perspective of the Treaties it's not immigration it's just migration within the Single Market.

You might as well argue it's racist to allow Sussex people to migrate to Surrey but not Indians to Surrey. That's not racism, that's just a requirement for the Single Market to operate. The point of the Single Market is to implement legislation that removes *everything* which could distort said market's operation. Capital, Labour and Enterprise must be free within it or else it's not complete.

 

[kitch9]

That's not why they aren't rejected; they're rejected because they don't meet the criteria of whatever member state they wish to move into. When it comes to EU citizens there *isn't* an immigration policy because from the perspective of the Treaties it's not immigration it's just migration within the Single Market.

You might as well argue it's racist to allow Sussex people to migrate to Surrey but not Indians to Surrey. That's not racism, that's just a requirement for the Single Market to operate. The point of the Single Market is to implement legislation that removes *everything* which could distort said market's operation. Capital, Labour and Enterprise must be free within it or else it's not complete.

They are rejected because they aren't from the EU, if you want to sugar coat it to feel better then more power to ya man.

It's not racist.

Honest.

 

[Palette Swap]

The French just tend to be the more extravagant of the rest of the EU.

Not sure why that is...

I've been voting for 17 years and following politics for 20 and honestly, I have no idea what you're basing this blanket statement on.

 

[kitch9]

I've been voting for 17 years and following politics for 20 and honestly, I have no idea what you're basing this blanket statement on.

As an outsider looking in French politics just seems extravagant.

Not Italian extravagant but extravagant none the less.

Saying that seeing as we are all from the EU and apparently how little we know of each other apart from hyperbole stereotypes and vague media stories probably says a lot

 

[Walshicus]

They are rejected because they aren't from the EU, if you want to sugar coat it to feel better then more power to ya man.

It's not racist.

Honest.

You're being disingenuous. I mean it's a simple concept, EU citizens aren't foreign when it comes to migration. Its a single labour market. I can't just pick up bags and live in America - is that racist?

 

[zero shift]

Why are all of the anti-EU parties right wing? Maybe it's because I'm an American but the concept of the Euro seems pretty pro-free market.

 

[Copons]

Why are all of the anti-EU parties right wing? Maybe it's because I'm an American but the concept of the Euro seems pretty pro-free market.

Imho this happens because for right wing parties national pride has a great importance, and they perceive the common parliament "above" their own as a weakness in their national sovereignity.


EDIT: I must say though that my understanding of this is a bit limited, as in Italy anti-EU parties aren't really right wing, but just plain populists, and their main reason is that euro impoverished us in favour of richer countries (mostly Germany).

 

[CyclopsRock]

Why are all of the anti-EU parties right wing? Maybe it's because I'm an American but the concept of the Euro seems pretty pro-free market.

Well, the "Euro" is a different thing altogether.

As for the EU generally, it's a funny mixture. At its core it has this economically liberal idea of free trade and the free movement of people, but left wing types tend to put more faith in the machinations of centralised systems and right wingers tend to place more interest in local provision. So you end up with this weird situation where right wingers like the original idea but dislike the nature of the parliament, where as left wingers dislike the globalisation but like the supra-national cooperation. Add in to all of this the stuff that doesn't really fit into left and right like data protection, forcing Windows to have a browser choice window (?!?), ensuring only people from certain places can market their products with a specific name (?!?!?!?!) and it ends up really coming down to a more nuanced view than left vs right.

That said, it does seem to be one of those things a bit like the BBC - lefties think it's too right, righties think it's too left. EVERYONE'S UNHAPPY YAY.

Edit: I guess it also depends what you mean by "right wing", of course - classical liberals certainly aren't fans of immigration restrictions, yet it seems that immigration restriction is the defining tenet of being labelled a "right wing" party for some reason.

 

[Musician]

People are reacting to the failure of multiculturalism. The thought that groups should live separately and keep their heritage and culture intact (which is what multiculturalism is all about. It's not a melting pot, it's a salad) is bound to create conflict between groups.

The very fact that the discourse is focused on tolerance says a lot about the state of things.

The purpose of the women's liberation movement was not to make men tolerate women.
The black struggle in America was not about white people tolerating black.

Tolerating implies that I, the tolerant, am in a position of power. I look down on your, the tolerated, and say "Oh, fine. You go ahead and do all these things you do that I don't understand and most likely dislike. Just keep your distance from me. Don't disturb me and my life and I will do the same to you."

What the EU needs desperately is to elevate the discussion above mere tolerance and instead work towards understanding and unification. It needs to find a common identity amongst its citizens. Multiculturalism (which an extension of individualism applied to a group) will always lie in the way of this. Blacks and whites, men and women, had to come to the realization that they are part of the same group. There is nothing to tolerate.

I also think we need to change our view of the word "integration". Instead of the rather banal interpretation of sacrificing ones identity to placate the group, it is possible to make a more profound statement. You are integrated into the societal body and from your integration the body itself is also changed. You are part of society and, so to speak, society is now influenced by you.

 

[cartesian]

Why are all of the anti-EU parties right wing? Maybe it's because I'm an American but the concept of the Euro seems pretty pro-free market.

This is actually a really perceptive question - my answer is that you're actually a lot closer to the truth than perhaps even many Europeans realise.

I think Copons strikes at the most prominent aspect of it, in that conservatives are much more inclined to hold nationalist sympathies and to fear malign foreign influence, whereas the modern left-wing tend to champion their tolerant, cosmopolitan credentials. The right-wing tend to worry about the erosion of their nation-state much more than the left, who tend to emphasise social class instead of national identity.

It also helps that, reflecting the political heritage of its predominantly German and French architects, the European Union tends to enforce a kind of social market economy, a regulated capitalism. So it pick up some flak from the free-market right-wing and support from the moderate-left who like the fact it forces market regulations upon national governments. I'd even suggest - purely on the back of personal intuition and absolutely no evidence whatsoever! - that this makes the moderate-left 'feel' more 'European' because it encourages the idea that 'us Europeans' all share a social democratic heritage, in contrast to 'the Americans'. But that's just a hunch, and I wouldn't necessarily say it's an important factor.

I'd echo everything CyclopsRock says, too.

But here's where I'm going to veer off from the beaten track a little bit.

I would argue that, actually, you need to understand how left-wing politicians - at least in Britain, and I would suspect much of Europe - have moved away from the classic 'worker's socialism' ideal, and have become much more of a well-educated metropolitan elite. As a result, the left-wing is now a label for two political communities. One is much less enthusiastic about immigration and power-sharing than the other, but until the recent crisis started to bite the cracks in the left haven't been very prominent.

I'd argue that, actually, what a lot of modern left-wing politicians don't understand is precisely that which you imply; that, actually, a huge number of left-wing voters are actually deeply unsettled by the effects of a European common market project. These classic left-wing voters (made up by large numbers of the working class families in post-industrial communities; what you might call blue-collar workers) could probably be said to make up the largest single bloc of eurosceptics in the UK. They bitterly resent what they perceive to be an elitist European conspiracy; as a result, you now have the once-unlikely spectacle of far-right parties surging ahead in traditional left-wing strongholds.

EDIT: Just to make my own position clear, I'm writing from a mildly centre-left, EU-neutral position. If anything, I'm sympathetic to the European ideal, but I fear that it's being forced on people in a very alienating and ultimately self-destructive manner.

 

[Red Arremer]

Why are all of the anti-EU parties right wing? Maybe it's because I'm an American but the concept of the Euro seems pretty pro-free market.

There's positions that are more right than conservative, which is what at least most parts of the Republican party could be considered. Think of the Tea Party if you want, I think those are a good indicator. The ideals of those parties are strongly nationalistic, xenophobic, and based on fear-mongering. Some of those parties seem to be driven by fascist motives.

 

[cripterion]

So you say that I can go to France and take a part of the public (or private) domain and declare it mine and live there without anything happening to me? What is this, Wild West?

If this is the case, then a lot is rotten in the national legislation.

I'd love to link you articles about illegal occupation of territory in France but everything's in French. Let's just say the laws are complex and fucked up imo.
Say you own a piece of land/property and someone manages to get in and take residence in it, it wouldn't be as simple as calling the police and have them removed on sight.

 

[cripterion]

FN wins on tasteless trolling billboard:

But they are 100% right though. That's what her family intends to do since it is perfectly legal.
She had the opportunity to stay in France but choose to stay with her family and they have now found the loophole to come back.

While the poster is in poor taste, this thing does leave me sour, why do people that come here illegally should get a free pass?

 

[Sickboy007]

This is actually a really perceptive question - my answer is that you're actually a lot closer to the truth than perhaps even many Europeans realise.

I think Copons strikes at the most prominent aspect of it, in that conservatives are much more inclined to hold nationalist sympathies and to fear malign foreign influence, whereas the modern left-wing tend to champion their tolerant, cosmopolitan credentials. The right-wing tend to worry about the erosion of their nation-state much more than the left, who tend to emphasise social class instead of national identity.

It also helps that, reflecting the political heritage of its predominantly German and French architects, the European Union tends to enforce a kind of social market economy, a regulated capitalism. So it pick up some flak from the free-market right-wing and support from the moderate-left who like the fact it forces market regulations onto national governments. I'd even suggest - on the back personal intuition and absolutely no hard evidence whatsoever! - that this makes the moderate-left 'feel' more 'European' because it encourages the idea that 'us Europeans' all share a social democratic heritage, 'in contrast to the Americans', etc. But that's just a hunch, and I wouldn't necessarily say it's an important factor.

I'd echo everything CyclopsRock says, too.

But here's where I'm going to veer off from the beaten track a little bit.

I would argue that, actually, left-wing politicians - at least in Britain, and I would suspect much of Europe - have moved away from the classic 'worker's socialism' ideal, and have become much more of a well-educated 'metropolitan elite'. As a result, the left-wing is sort of a label for two loosely-overlapping communities. One is much less enthusiastic about immigration and power-sharing than the other, but until the recent recession started to bite the cracks in the left haven't been very important.

I'd argue that, actually, what a lot of modern left-wing politicians don't understand is precisely that which you imply; that, actually, a huge number of left-wing voters are actually deeply unsettled by the effects of a European common market project. These classic left-wing voters (made up by large numbers of the lower-income, typically unskilled/manual working class families in lower-income/post-industrial communities; what you might call blue-collar workers) might even be said to make up the largest single bloc of eurosceptics in the UK.

EDIT: Just to make my own position clear, I'm writing from a mildly centre-left, EU-neutral position. If anything, I'm sympathetic to the European ideal, but I fear that it's being forced on people in a very alienating and ultimately self-destructive manner.

Let's not forget that the far-right in most of Europe has a lineage that isn't, theoretically at least, the most pro-market and business friendly. Front National for example has a shared history with a lot of other European (mostly southern) "social-right" movements that espoused the virtues of a corporatist nation state. All the classic rhetoric of the small businessman fucked over by the "Pluto-democratic-zionists" etc etc. is perfectly repurposeable for the European Union.

 

[Boom Boom Pow]

But they are 100% right though. That's what her family intends to do since it is perfectly legal.
She had the opportunity to stay in France but choose to stay with her family and they have now found the loophole to come back.

While the poster is in poor taste, this thing does leave me sour, why do people that come here illegally should get a free pass?

can you translate what that says?

 

[anonymous_abc]

I don't know if I'd categorize M5S as "strongly eurosceptic". They asked for a referendum, but they really don't have a program about the EU. Beppe Grillo's electoral promise was to speak in gibberish German to Angela Merkel and...not much else.

Thanks that is interesting and puts the whole we have all had enough into perspective.

UKIP voters get called racist and they voted for the party that wants a points based immigration system which is the same for anyone regardless of where they came from.

Oh please!
We are not saying UKIP is racist (or to be more precise many UKIP members and supporters are) because they want a points based immigration system .

 

[ComputerMKII]

This is one of UKIP's election posters. I think that's as pretty clear a statement as you could ask for.

 

[MisterFalcon]

Why are all of the anti-EU parties right wing? Maybe it's because I'm an American but the concept of the Euro seems pretty pro-free market.

It's a little more complicated than that, everyone wants to get in on the anti-EU sentiment. Here are the Dutch election campaign slogans:

Poster number 2 is the right-wing PVV with their slogan 'Less EU' while top right you have the left-wing Socialist Party with 'No To This EU'. There is also the right wing Christian Union's 'Cooperation Yes, Superstate No' along with the Animal Rights Party 'Say No to 360 Billion Farm Subsidies'.

 

[ComputerMKII]

Why are all of the anti-EU parties right wing? Maybe it's because I'm an American but the concept of the Euro seems pretty pro-free market.

There's nothing more free-market than enforcing a legal monopoly on currency

 

[JesseEwiak]

There's nothing more free-market than enforcing a legal monopoly on currency

Free market to regular sane people, not crazy libertarians who want eight kinds of money because lol competition.

 

[Kabouter]

Free market to regular sane people, not crazy libertarians who want eight kinds of money because lol competition.

Why don't we try to avoid calling other GAFers crazy? Just because someone holds fringe political beliefs doesn't mean you have to engage in personal attacks against them.

 

[Nikodemos]

Why don't we try to avoid calling other GAFers crazy? Just because someone holds fringe political beliefs doesn't mean you have to engage in personal attacks against them.

I don't think he directed that at other GAFers. He was probably speaking in a general sense.

Anyway, the Euro was originally designed as a way to prevent large-scale manipulation of the currency market (with high negative impact on the economies affected) by unscrupulous bastards with vast resorces, as Soros did with the pound on Black Wednesday.

The biggest problem with the Euro isn't that it's too integrated, but rather than it isn't integrated enough, and that causes other issues.

 

[kitch9]

You're being disingenuous. I mean it's a simple concept, EU citizens aren't foreign when it comes to migration. Its a single labour market. I can't just pick up bags and live in America - is that racist?

America will treat you the same regardless of where you came from, so no it isn't racist.

 

[anonymous_abc]

The biggest problem with the Euro isn't that it's too integrated, but rather than it isn't integrated enough, and that causes other issues.

And that exactly the reason why the EUro-zone will continue to integrate, no question about it.

 

[Walshicus]

America will treat you the same regardless of where you came from, so no it isn't racist.

No, it will treat a Californian different than a Bosnian. An Englishman in Spain is not English for immigration purposes, he's just a European in Europe.

I seriously cannot believe you can't see that; you've got to be trolling.