Mitsuda Maniac
Member
Bruno Fernandes talking out against the ESL.
Dang, sports heroes in Europe are pretty wimpy looking.
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European Super League (Football/Soccer)
- Thread starter T8SC
- Start date
Dang, sports heroes in Europe are pretty wimpy looking.
Azurro
Banned
I'm ok with this, UEFA is just throwing their toys out of the pram because they just took away their cashcow. Football has changed, the financial implications are enormous, the big teams have become a global product and there's no going back. The big teams are what makes the CL, after COVID hitting the finances of these teams, it proved the perfect catalyst for this.
All of this morality grand standing is ridiculous, you can't win without money in this sport, little teams becoming competitive happens so, so rarely that they can't come out and tell the BS that football is for "the little guys". It hasn't been, for decades. Now UEFA and FIFA come out with all that BS? With their shit Club World Cup competition? How about the BS in Qatar that actually is costing lives, building stadiums that will never be needed again with actual people dying to make it happen? With their international friendlies, which aren't anything but an excuse to line up the pockets of the federations and damage the clubs that are actually paying the players. With CONCACAF directors becoming insanely rich through shady dealings. Oh but no, NOW they are actually for morality and the little guy, don't make me laugh.
Instead of watching Juve in the CL, I'll watch Juve in the Super League, big deal. Serie A was already kind of a secondary competition for the fanbase, winning it was kind of a requirement and a consolation prize compared to the big eared trophy.
All of this morality grand standing is ridiculous, you can't win without money in this sport, little teams becoming competitive happens so, so rarely that they can't come out and tell the BS that football is for "the little guys". It hasn't been, for decades. Now UEFA and FIFA come out with all that BS? With their shit Club World Cup competition? How about the BS in Qatar that actually is costing lives, building stadiums that will never be needed again with actual people dying to make it happen? With their international friendlies, which aren't anything but an excuse to line up the pockets of the federations and damage the clubs that are actually paying the players. With CONCACAF directors becoming insanely rich through shady dealings. Oh but no, NOW they are actually for morality and the little guy, don't make me laugh.
Instead of watching Juve in the CL, I'll watch Juve in the Super League, big deal. Serie A was already kind of a secondary competition for the fanbase, winning it was kind of a requirement and a consolation prize compared to the big eared trophy.
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The way I see it its pretty hard to go back. The new Champions League format is terrible, its a safety net for big clubs as well. Because its not about the local fan anymore in top european football. Its all about pleasing Asian, Middle Eastern and North American casual fans to increase revenue. Countries with no football history or silverware. Since their local leagues are Mickey Mouse tournaments they much rather take the easy road and be "fans" of the best clubs in the world.
So what do they do? As they don't have any attachment to the city behind the club they just choose the clubs that do well and have the best players. And by doing so you create a vicious cycle: Its no longer about which is the best club of England, Spain or Italy. But a handful of global superclubs thrashing smaller national clubs. Its atractive to the casual fan from abroad because they get to see Messi and Ronaldo score once or twice per game, but it destroys the local competition.
The only way to go back is to restrict the number of foreign players a team can hire and let then see what happens: For the casual foreign fan it won't be as atractive to watch a Premier League with mostly British/Irish players. Same applies to Spain, Italy and Germany. This could really boost the Ligue 1 though. All the best french players playing in their clubs could be great for the competition. Same for Dutch, Portuguese, Belgian, Serbian leagues and don't get me started on Argentina and Brazil.
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SkylineRKR
Member
Whats fun about the new format?
Clasico's stopped being fun when they met like 6 times in a season. With this super league, you get the same fixtures each time. You could say CL has gone that way as well, but there are still Atalantas and Lyons causing a stir now and then. Or Ajax a few years ago who were smelling the final. Spurs reached that final.
Neville is right, those teams like Arsenal, they don't even play CL. They're not good enough. Yet they tag along.
Clasico's stopped being fun when they met like 6 times in a season. With this super league, you get the same fixtures each time. You could say CL has gone that way as well, but there are still Atalantas and Lyons causing a stir now and then. Or Ajax a few years ago who were smelling the final. Spurs reached that final.
Neville is right, those teams like Arsenal, they don't even play CL. They're not good enough. Yet they tag along.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
LOL.
When was the last time Juventus were champions of Europe?
25 years since you won the 2nd of 2.
Quarter of a century since your last success and you talking as if Juventus are constant contenders.
I suppose in a closed shop like this Juventus won't be tempted to get back into match fixing.
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BattleScar
Member
Removing the threat of relegation or being displaced from the Champions league by upstart clubs, basically removes all meaning in competition.
The clubs are protecting their interests, so that the likes of Leicester, West Ham, Wolves and so on from having a chance to enter the upper echelons. We're not going to have a situation where Porto wins the Champions League against all odds against supposed European royalty. We're not gonna have magic moments like that any more, because these clubs have made a playhouse all for themselves.
Its an Americanism from shit like the NHL which basically removes all of the heritage from the sport, and makes even more commercial than its already been.
Goddamn Yanks ruining everything as usual for the $$$.
The clubs are protecting their interests, so that the likes of Leicester, West Ham, Wolves and so on from having a chance to enter the upper echelons. We're not going to have a situation where Porto wins the Champions League against all odds against supposed European royalty. We're not gonna have magic moments like that any more, because these clubs have made a playhouse all for themselves.
Its an Americanism from shit like the NHL which basically removes all of the heritage from the sport, and makes even more commercial than its already been.
Goddamn Yanks ruining everything as usual for the $$$.
Azurro
Banned
What-are-you-talking-about-who-are-you-talking-to.gif
Moving on, it's priceless to see premier league personalities grand standing against this, when was the last time a team not owned by a billionaire won the Premier League? Oh, but they weren't complaining when Sky gave them billions for the TV rights and all teams little and small were buying players from all over Europe, that was on then.
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Unknown Quantity
Member
The only "British" team is Tottenham, owned by ENIC which is registered in the Bahamas. There are three Chinese owned prem team, more than 5 American & after Sheffield utd got relegated 1 Arab owned team.
Toons could've been one, and it would've be long term investment. The gatekeepers said no, or just waffled on & delayed till PIF said meh & moved on.
Fans don't want this, and they can't protest. That's one reason. Also fans can't blockade & have games played at Empty Stadiums. Anyone attending will be traitors to the game.
RedVIper
Banned
I'm not against a super league as a concept, but this implementation is just horrible. (I'd call it european league though)
The threat of relegation still needs to be there, I'd make relegation super aggressive, to make sure we're not stuck watching the same teams over and over, and to give a chance at weaker teams to at least get some money.
There also needs to be some heavier restrictions on foreign players to prevent clubs from just gobbling all the best players in the world.
The threat of relegation still needs to be there, I'd make relegation super aggressive, to make sure we're not stuck watching the same teams over and over, and to give a chance at weaker teams to at least get some money.
There also needs to be some heavier restrictions on foreign players to prevent clubs from just gobbling all the best players in the world.
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Unknown Quantity
Member
See you lot tomorrow.
Radical Dreamer
Member
I am big Real Madrid fan dating back from galacticos era (2000) but man I wish UEFA will just straight ban them and the rest from the Champions League and kick them out of semifinals. Perez you sack of shit.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Brilliant, couldn't have said better
Ogbert
Member
The top clubs despise UEFA and FIFA. And the two boards are fucked without those teams and their respective players.This will not pass, fifa uefa will go nuclear and ban players from international and domestic games.
Just a crazy bet to force uefa hands
There’s nothing UEFA can do. They can’t magic up the money on offer. Barca and Juve are both basically bankrupt.
This is going to happen and it’s shit.
RJMacready73
Simps for Amouranth
Also why is it restricted to 6 English, 3 Spanish and 3 Italian clubs? What about Germany & France?
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
"Serie A was already kind of a secondary competition for the fanbase, winning it was kind of a requirement and a consolation prize compared to the big eared trophy."
What I'm talking about is how exactly you can see Serie A as a "consolation" when your team just gets cuffed in the CL every season because they aren't good enough to win it.
So just create a closed competition where other can't get in?
Porto have won the CL more recently than Juventus FFS. Porto not invited though, of course.
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Azurro
Banned
Exactly, there's no other reason Ceferin was so pissed off in that press conference. He is humiliated since it happened on his watch, and he knows he can say what he wants since he has no cards to play.
What is the Champions League without those top 12? You ban them from Serie A, from Premiér League, from La Liga, and those leagues get destroyed, the TV rights will plummet. Sky is not going to pay millions to have the headline act be Leicester vs Burnley. Nobody is going to pay La Liga hundreds of millions to show Celta de Vigo vs Sevilla.
This is going to happen. I'm ok with this, not super enthusiastic since I wanted Juve to win the CL, but the situation was unsustainable for a while, and UEFA and FIFA were lining their pockets willy nilly.
Azurro
Banned
You have no arguments other than personal insults. The 12 teams that broke away are the biggest teams in the world in all metrics possible. Insult ignorantly my team if you want, but this is happening, UEFA is just throwing a tantrum since their cashcow just left. The threats are empty, the leagues will die without those teams.
Africa's Toto
Banned
My man, I understand and agree with most of what you said, but I was asking more about the date they chose and its proximity to the close of the season.
Yes, they'd probably planned this for years now, so why did they choose this day to announce it? Why not 2 months from now?
Why did they have to ruin the 20/21 season? I know the Epl and Bundesliga were basically wrapped up, but the LaLiga title race was just heating up. The UCL just entered semis.
Why did they pick the 19th of April to irrevocably change European football?
Only reason I can think of is, like I mentioned, the bargaining power a disruption to ongoing games would provide.
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RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Nonsense. If Juventus are in the 12 teams then they are NOT there on sporting merit at all. It's an embarrasment but if the fans are really that shameless then enjoy it, I guess.
Azurro
Banned
Neanderthal, in case you haven't noticed, I'm not Andrea Agnelli, so you can chill.
Anyway, moving on. I find myself rather indifferent, I'm ok with it, and more games between the best teams sounds good, I'll watch for sure, I'd just like clarification on what is the plan moving forward.
The only thing that gets to me is the hypocrisy, I go to r/soccer and people are having meltdowns and crying about greed, while most of them are PL fans and conveniently ignore how the Premier League is the richest league in the world and has the biggest amount of billionaire owners of any league.
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cyber_ninja
Member
Shoot that shit down, deduct points or kick them out.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
How is that hypocrisy? The league has promotion and relegation every season.
Its only been 5 years since Leicester won the league. Which is something the "big six" don't want to happen apparently.
The Premier League, for all its failings, is at least a competitive league where teams are able to rise up or sink down some decent number of places.
Its nothing like this closed shop nonsense.
FFS some of the 12 teams haven't been Champions of Europe for decades and others have NEVER won even the old European Cup.
Bring
Well yeah I would have to agree with that. English football was way better before the premier league took off. Not a fan of seeing 7 frenchmen 2 argentine and 2 brazilians and 1 brit on a team.
Italy is no better though, just that there is less room to make money than in England these days. I remember inter being a South American team for the most part when they were winning everything.
How can you identify with a club when they have no national players whatsoever and an american/chinese/arab as an owner?
80s early 90s serie A is the model to follow for european football I believe. Few foreign players but only the best of the best: the 3 dutchman at Milán, Platini at Juventus, Maradona and Careca at Napoli. You get the idea.
Put those players alongside local talent, and also reduce the number of teams to play in your league to improve the quality in average. If I am not mistaken Serie A had 16 teams in the 80s and 18 in the 90s.
Well yeah I would have to agree with that. English football was way better before the premier league took off. Not a fan of seeing 7 frenchmen 2 argentine and 2 brazilians and 1 brit on a team.
Italy is no better though, just that there is less room to make money than in England these days. I remember inter being a South American team for the most part when they were winning everything.
How can you identify with a club when they have no national players whatsoever and an american/chinese/arab as an owner?
80s early 90s serie A is the model to follow for european football I believe. Few foreign players but only the best of the best: the 3 dutchman at Milán, Platini at Juventus, Maradona and Careca at Napoli. You get the idea.
Put those players alongside local talent, and also reduce the number of teams to play in your league to improve the quality in average. If I am not mistaken Serie A had 16 teams in the 80s and 18 in the 90s.
Diddy X
Member
Who cares, it's a spectacle, they are all maffias anyway, if anything I feel sorry for those that get emotionally involved with these teams.
Jon Neu
Banned
Before Covid, Barça had a budget of 1000 millions of euros by year.
The TV deal is 165 millions for Barça, while in the Premier League a team like let's say Leicester, earns 130 millions of the TV deal.
The difference is not the TV deal.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Why feel sorry?
Every weekend I get to participate in something that binds me and my family and my mates together. Some of the best times in my life. Nothing bad about that.
Jon Neu
Banned
Porto won in 2004, Juventus reached the Champions League final in 2015.
Juventus it's also a team with more supporters and capable of buying players like Cristiano for 105 millions of euros. Porto's most expensive acquisition was Oliver Torres for 20 millions. It's obvious Juventus brings more to the table.
kiiltz
Member
German clubs have a 50+1 rule so the fans own the majority of the club. Also BvB, Bayern, Leipzig and PSG told them to fuck off though the last one probably did it because of the WC.
LisaMariaMartin
Banned
This would have ramifications beyond just the sport.
EA has the license for FIFA, nothing else. That license will be severely devalued if those teams leave. This also means that the super league license would be up for grabs.
Interesting situation.
EA has the license for FIFA, nothing else. That license will be severely devalued if those teams leave. This also means that the super league license would be up for grabs.
Interesting situation.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
I got to say even though I dont follow soccer, this is a really interesting topic. The effect on the sport, money, fans, and leagues is game changing and worth following.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Yet for all this "more" they are supposedly bringing to the table Porto put them out in the last 16 this season.
So instead Juventus have to work in the background fixing the whole system so that teams like Porto don't even have the opportunity to put them out.
They can't do it on the park by simply being better at the sport so they take a huff and go away and create their own league.
Its pathetic.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
German teams are majority owned by fans? Wow, never knew that.
I thought just about all sports teams everywhere are owned by billionaires and corporations.
Jon Neu
Banned
This is a competition to make the most profit possible. Juve makes more money than Porto.
That's why Arsenal is there; for some reason it has a lot of fans.
Barça and Madrid are owned by fans too.
RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Its funny in some ways.
Arsenal, Spurs and Man United are pish.
Juve got cuffed in Europe by Porto, Lyon and Atletico in the last 3 seasons. Didn't they win 9 Serie A in a row and have zero champions leagues to show for it.
AC Milan are an embarrassment. When was the last time they were relevant in Europe?
Basically teams that can't do it ON the pitch so they rig the system off it.
Of course their fans are happy. Bet they can't wait to get away from teams like Porto, Lyon, Ajax etc. Fuckin Olympiakos dumped Arsenal out of Europe last season. They'll be delighted to be handed opportunities that they certainly haven't earned and 100% do not deserve.
"Oh but my team is popular in China and America so we're entitled to success. Spurs shouldn't have to play Dynamo Zagreb! What if they beat us? Can't we just have an automatic place?"
Absolutely embarrassing.
Azurro
Banned
I know you are making a general point, but Inter Milan is a poor example since then being international is part of their identity, the entire club existed because of it. They split from AC Milan because the founders wanted an international team with no limits.
Juventus and Milan to a lesser degree are a much better example of what you are saying. Actually I don't know if you have heard the term ItalJuve, but usually Juve tries to find the top Italian talent to put them in the team. You mainly saw a dearth of them in Juve the last few years since Italy had a horrid generation of players and only now quite a few potentially world beating players are beginning to appear again.
Milan is a different case, they have had a horrid history with owners starting with the last few years of Berlusconi, so, tough ask to ask for them to ask for specific nationalities when their squad until recently was dreadful.
Mitsuda Maniac
Member
It is kind of funny that it seems these owners are willing to blow up a good thing to try and attract American viewers like me who still won't watch this boring ass sport.
Jon Neu
Banned
Without those teams, the Champions League it's going to lose a tremendous quantity of money.
And then, the best players of those teams will go out and play for the richer teams of the Super League.
I mean, there has to be some kind of agreement in the next days because otherwise, some teams are going to be left behind.
The Bosman law fucked up european football.
The best possible scenario for me would be a rule of 7 home grown players + 4 outside players. That would level the field a lot.
Azurro
Banned
You can stop your ignorant little rants, have you noticed who is the Chairman of the new Super Liga? Florentino Pérez, Chairman of Real Madrid, who won 5 Champions League titles in the last 10 years or so. Want to know who is a vice chairman? John Henry, whose team won the PL and the CL in the last couple of years. Your new hate boy Agnelli is the president of Juve, who has won 9 Scudetti in a row in the third best league in Europe and has arrived twice to the final of the Champions League and only lost to Messi and Cristiano in their primes, hardly something to be embarrassed about.
These guys are better at the sport than anyone else. It's just easy for you to blame some foreigners for "destroying your game", when 3 vice chairmen of the super League come from the PL.
Azurro
Banned
The Champions League is effectively dead. The prize money depends on its worth to broadcasters, nobody is going to pay hundreds of millions to watch it without Barcelona, Real Madrid and the PL clubs.
kiiltz
Member
Excluding the elite of elite teams in global football (Association not American), the majority of Football clubs are owned by fans. Theoretically, you could start a club with your bar friends tomorrow and eventually work your up way up to highest tier. In fact, that's how Manchester United, Arsenal, Liverpool and a lot of the big clubs of the world were originally founded; by working class people that formed a club to kick a ball around (hence the "United" in a lot of clubs names). With the ESL and it's closed off nature, this won't be possible anymore because the relevant competitions will be made redundant and die, and the money that trickles down the pyramid will disappear. It's also why so many people are disgusted with aforementioned clubs, because they're spitting on everything they were originally founded upon.
Wizz-Art
Member
For real, or is it just your gut feeling? If the Euro League exists without elite clubs, they can continue a CL without those 12 clubs too, it's still first class football and Europeans are crazy about the game so I wouldn't state it's dead by definition.
There's still big clubs left.
Azurro
Banned
Well, the attractiveness of the Champions League and how it became an international powerhouse is because of the quality of the teams involved, and more importantly, the vast amounts of prize money it gives.
The broadcasters will not pay the amount of money to watch Genk, Porto and Napoli instead of Real Madrid, Barcelona and Manchester United. It's basically the Europa League, and you know how little money that pays. Clubs will still transfer their players to clubs in the Super League, especially now that Covid has destroyed the finances of most teams. That's why UEFA is having its tantrum, the big clubs just killed its money mine.
Not THAT much has changed really, except that the Super League is now owned by the clubs and it's much more closed, with only 5 places for qualification to it.
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RedWhiteBlue
Banned
Exactly. Serial losers like Juventus riding the coat tails of Madrid, Barca and Liverpool because they can't do it legitimately on the pitch. So they weasel their way in with promises to sell jerseys in the US etc. Even changing the club logo to the current abomination for a bit of extra cash.
Still couldn't beat Porto over two legs. Or Lyon. 9 championships in a row and 9 abject failures in Europe to go with them. Couldn't even get out of the group stages a few times.
"Oh but we got absolutely pumped by Barca and then by Madrid in the final a couple of times please let us in."
Almost unbelievably shameless to think a club that tried and failed NINE consecutive times to have an impact in the Champions League and hasn't been champions of Europe for a quarter of a century deserves to waltz right in to some Super League.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Soccer is viewed and played by more people than any other sport in the world.
The World Cup is viewed by about half the people in this planet. And European teams are the most successful teams in the competition.
You misunderstand why this is happening- it has nothing to do about “relevance”.
INC
Member
And you misunderstood that I don't give 2 shkts about football, I bid u good day