Evergreen State college to pay professor at center of protests 500k

Battle Litany said:
You shouldn't paint with such a broad brush.
There's nothing wrong with the vast majority of Christian colleges. Notre Dame is better than 99% of universities in the country.

Most Christian universities aren't propaganda factories like Liberty.
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I should have been more clear, but I was speaking to the abundance of Christian colleges in the region I was living. I am talking about schools that overtly advertise themselves as schools "for Christians", and present a Biblical worldview for their students.
 
Karsticles said:
You could say this about most people in their 40s. Not kids.


The fact that our society has extended childhood into the late teenage years doesn't change their legal status. That's my point. Are our young people today increasingly maladapted to adult life and lacking the emotional sophistication necessary for the world outside of education? As a teacher, I say "god damn it, yes".

I agree about everything you say otherwise, though. At a previous high school I taught at, a number of my students planned on going to a "Christian University" so that they could be in a familiar culture. To those I knew well enough that I felt like they wouldn't cry to their parents about oppression, I would tell them what a mistake that is. The point of higher education is to challenge yourself intellectually and expand your mind about different viewpoints. To go to a school with the intention of keeping your beliefs intact is missing the point entirely. I wish we wouldn't even dignify such schools as being universities in this day and age.
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It doesn't really matter where you go if you can get a good qualification in something you like which is useful in life. Unless you were born into wealth, then study whatever you want I guess. Most people do need to keep an eye somewhat on a career path that will earn an okay salary. I think some of the brattyist and most aggressive students are probably from wealthy privileged backgrounds. Probably spoilt or have never had a day in their life where they didn't get something going their way. That's anecdotal, but I bet it's the case for some of them.

College or Uni isn't your home, it's a stop gap on the real road for life. It's to get an education, learn a bit about yourself and move on within a few years. Yeah, I get it being a community for a short amount of time, but students should realise it's a momentary stop in their lives, and for most it's primarily to get an education/qualification of some sorts. Not to go around staging a coup to take over a campus.

I should add I'm not really in favour of faith schools myself, I'm just saying above no matter where you go if your heads screwed on correctly you can work and learn and improve yourself.

Trident said:
What should he have done instead?
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When your point of argument in this topic is being more concerned about who the professor spoke to than what actually happened it goes to show you care more about the "optics". Bret explained many times who was leaning out to him and who wasn't. No surprise the right was, to bash the left, but when you're wanting your side of the story heard you'll speak out to someone willing to give you a platform.

That plus people on the left get hyper defensive about situations that might make others on the left look bad. Tough. These students were out of order and shouldn't have others on the left defending them. The faculty and Dean completely failed to handle the situation as well, which is what the lawsuit is largely based on. They failed to protect the safety of Bret and his wife.

Edit: 2+ hours on Rogan if anyone wanted to hear about this as it happened (taped a few months ago) and judge Bret for yourself. The day of absence is explained right from the start https://youtu.be/xq4Y87idawk
 
The email that sparked this.

weinstein_email.png


The reaction:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTnDpoQLNaY
 
Infinite said:
Not do that for starters.
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Should he have hidden in a hole? It's not as if Tucker Carlson was his first choice. He was backed into a corner undeservedly. His appearance on Tucker Carlson is on those that put him in that untenable position.
 
Kinyou said:
I don't see the irony
Does the professor call other people snowflakes or something?
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His whole thing is about how the PC students can't tolerate verbal hostility.

Obviously threats of physical violence are beyond the pale but if his suit also sought to get money from the college because people were yelling at him, as the phrasing suggests, then lol.

Also not clear why the college is responsible for threats by third parties unless they encouraged or endorsed them.
 
ahoyhoy said:
Some people in here acting like just because he's white he can't get hurt. I think they're mixing up a group of angry students with the police.
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I've seen a lot of this, "ours can't do no wrong" backwards attitude on here, it's disgusting.


The professor is as progressive as it gets, it's sad he was treated the way he was. Even his wife was harassed, when she said nothing.
 
Following the protest, college police, ordered by Evergreen’s president to stand down, told Mr. Weinstein they couldn’t guarantee his safety on campus. In the end, Mr. Weinstein held his biology class in a public park. Meantime, photographs and names of his students were circulated online. “Fire Bret” graffiti showed up on campus buildings.
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What the fuck? No wonder the school settled.

Hilarious that there are people who are throwing about "white centrist" accusations for being against this behavior, though. This isn't exactly tut-tutting over punching Nazis.
 
Quixzlizx said:
What the fuck? No wonder the school settled.

Hilarious that there are people who are throwing about "white centrist" accusations for being against this behavior, though. This isn't exactly tut-tutting over punching Nazis.
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The attempts to turn "white moderate" and "white centrist" into a pejorative on this site, originating with the counter-memeifing of MLK Jr., are as comical as they are misguided.

And they're also revealing of the absolutist mentality and an ugliness of the political/racial attitudes of the person trying to invoke the phrase as a pejorative.
 
I do think Weinstein shouldn't have gone on Fox news, as they are clearly biased to spin the story in a certain kind of way. Certainly, he could've spread his story well enough on places like CNN/NBC, or if not those, then places like Joe Rogan.

That said, what the administrators of the University, and to a lesser extent the students, did was despicable and inexcusable. To bring up the professor going on the Tucker Carlson as an excuse for verbal harassment and threats against him and his family as well as the university failing to protect him feels like low key victim blaming. Nobody deserves that, especially someone who simply disagreed with a protest over an email in a very progressive and calm manner, and went on Tucker Carlson to discuss his views (which I believe was after the whole shit storm erupted anyhow).

The school is the most to blame here. They handled this whole crisis horribly and I hope they learn from their mistakes in the future so they can continue to try to improve their university and student/staff relationships.
 
Following the protest, college police, ordered by Evergreen’s president to stand down, told Mr. Weinstein they couldn’t guarantee his safety on campus. In the end, Mr. Weinstein held his biology class in a public park. Meantime, photographs and names of his students were circulated online. “Fire Bret” graffiti showed up on campus buildings.
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Anyone defending this shit can fuck right off.
 
Sounds about right.

I dunno why people who are defending the students actions are getting mad, he didn't sue the students. The school on the other hand has a responsibility to keep faculty safe and when they essentially throw their hands up and say "Yeah we can't protect you" they deserve a lawsuit.

The students were being stupid, but the real problem in this case was the authority figures that should have stopped it did nothing. The students are to blame up to a point, but the faculty higher ups have no excuse.
 
Xe4 said:
I do think Weinstein shouldn't have gone on Fox news, as they are clearly biased to spin the story in a certain kind of way. Certainly, he could've spread his story well enough on places like CNN/NBC, or if not those, then places like Joe Rogan.
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I might as well post the Tucker Carlson clip so posters can see it rather than the topic speculate about what happened in it

https://youtu.be/_j9nFced_eo

As above he went on Joe Rogan https://youtube.com/watch?v=xq4Y87idawk

In the 2+ hour video he explains originally some of the media were ignoring him. As I said above of course Tucker is going to reach out and accept because it's an easy swipe at the left.
 
Deepwater said:
Sorry for not giving the benefit of the doubt to a white guy who thinks incorporating initiatives to improve Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in employee performance reviews is racism against white people. THEN following him to go on a bunch of right wing media platforms to cry about being a victim because students non violently organized against him and said some mean things in the process?

Yes, that's white guy crying racism
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Folks like that don't deserve the benefit of the doubt
 
Deepwater said:
Sorry for not giving the benefit of the doubt to a white guy who thinks incorporating initiatives to improve Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in employee performance reviews is racism against white people. THEN following him to go on a bunch of right wing media platforms to cry about being a victim because students non violently organized against him and said some mean things in the process?

Yes, that's white guy crying racism
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He‘s a jew, and no it isn‘t.
 
The students were absolutely in the wrong, I'm not sure how anyone could justify their actions.

Though the professor going on conservative talk shows was idiotic.
 
Audioboxer said:
I might as well post the Tucker Carlson clip so posters can see it rather than the topic speculate about what happened in it

https://youtu.be/_j9nFced_eo

As above he went on Joe Rogan https://youtube.com/watch?v=xq4Y87idawk

In the 2+ hour video he explains originally some of the media were ignoring him. As I said above of course Tucker is going to reach out and accept because it's an easy swipe at the left.
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I do think it was important to get his story out there, and it does suck that he was ignored by other media. That said, as a progressive individual, he should know the effect that going on Tucker Carlson has with regards to the narrative that is spun by both the right wing and the country. Him getting his story in the NYT had a far greater effect in trying to change the minds that he wanted to change than going on Fox ever would.

I'm not going to yell at him or call for his resignation (even if I was at Evergreen). Certainly, I'm not going to do something as disgusting as threaten him or go in a mob around the University disrupting learning. However, it does disappoint me as someone who considers myself progressive, and I find that I strongly disagree with his decision in this regard.
 
I'm no fan of Fox News, but I don't see why the truth should be withheld from their viewers just because it's inconvenient for others.

g11 said:
Sounds about right.

I dunno why people who are defending the students actions are getting mad, he didn't sue the students. The school on the other hand has a responsibility to keep faculty safe and when they essentially throw their hands up and say "Yeah we can't protect you" they deserve a lawsuit.

The students were being stupid, but the real problem in this case was the authority figures that should have stopped it did nothing. The students are to blame up to a point, but the faculty higher ups have no excuse.
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It wasn't just "we can't protect you", it was "we refuse to protect you" - the President ordered the police not to defend him.
 
Xe4 said:
I do think it was important to get his story out there, and it does suck that he was ignored by other media. That said, as a progressive individual, he should know the effect that going on Tucker Carlson has with regards to the narrative that is spun by both the right wing and the country. Him getting his story in the NYT had a far greater effect in trying to change the minds that he wanted to change than going on Fox ever would.

I'm not going to yell at him or call for his resignation (even if I was at Evergreen). Certainly, I'm not going to do something as disgusting as threaten him or go in a mob around the University disrupting learning. However, it does disappoint me as someone who considers myself progressive, and I find that I strongly disagree with his decision in this regard.
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I'm still not sure what else he was supposed to do, since other media outlets were ignoring him.
 
Xe4 said:
I do think it was important to get his story out there, and it does suck that he was ignored by other media. That said, as a progressive individual, he should know the effect that going on Tucker Carlson has with regards to the narrative that is spun by both the right wing and the country.

I'm not going to yell at him or call for his resignation (even if I was at Evergreen). Certainly, I'm not going to do something as disgusting as threaten him or go in a mob around the University disrupting learning. However, it does disappoint me as someone who considers myself progressive, and I find that I strongly disagree with his decision in this regard.
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As I said above, you need to decide what is more important, a 5 minute interview to get the media paying attention to what is going on, or what actually went on?

Obsessing over him appearing on Fox news begins to show how people care more about protecting the narrative and feelings of the left, rather than agreeing, wait a minute, this situation is bonkers and that is what gives the right a field day. Even if he never went on Fox the right were picking this up in droves anyway. The left and left media needs to stop being so scared to admit sometimes people on this side do crazy shit and it's okay to call it out and criticise it. To try and sweep it under the rug is precisely what embarrasses us when the right act like they've got "bigger balls" than us to take on our shit. In reality it's not like they actually care to better the left, it's just easy sniping.

If you can be bothered I'd listen to the Joe Rogan interview. Not only can you pick over Bret with a fine comb and judge him for yourself, you'll hear him explain how he was struggling to get media help at the start. Once things exploded then a lot of left wing media picked it up. Obviously some of them were more concerned about "optics" and criticising their own base camp. If we want to take the moral high ground over the right we need to accept its okay to self-reflect and self-criticise. Goodness knows they don't do that within their own camp, but then again we're pretty bad at it as of late too. Just look at the responses to this situation. People at the time and even still now bending over backwards to deflect or say anything possible not to criticise the students, College, faculty and Dean.
 
It's not like conservatives don't have the internet. Shitheads like Tucker Carlson were going to get around to this eventually anyway.
 
Trident said:
I'm still not sure what else he was supposed to do, since other media outlets were ignoring him.
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I mean, he went on Joe Rogan and got his story in the NYT. That's already a bunch of media attention towards a small school in Washington. He could've tried to get his side of the story in local media broadcasts too, which also matter.

Audioboxer said:
As I said above, you need to decide what is more important, a 5 minute interview to get the media paying attention to what is going on, or what actually went on?

Obsessing over him appearing on Fox news begins to show how people care more about protecting the narrative and feelings of the left, rather than agreeing, wait a minute, this situation is bonkers and that is what gives the right a field day. Even if he never went on Fox the right were picking this up in droves anyway. The left and left media needs to stop being so scared to admit sometimes people on this side do crazy shit and it's okay to call it out and criticise it. To try and sweep it under the rug is precisely what embarrasses us when the right act like they've got "bigger balls" than us to take on our shit.

If you can be bothered I'd listen to the Joe Rogan interview. Not only can you pick over Bret with a fine comb and judge him for yourself, you'll hear him explain how he was struggling to get media help at the start. Once things exploded then a lot of left wing media picked it up. Obviously some of them were more concerned about "optics" and criticising their own base camp.
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I did listen to the Joe Rogan interview when it first happened. And I am concerned with tthe way the students and faculty at the university acted, as I've said time and time again. Criticizing the students isn't difficult, because what they did was very, very wrong. Every time these events come up I have and will continue to criticize idiots on the left. I don't give a fuck if me criticizing them "hurts the narrative" or whatever.

But I can multitask. I can also criticize a self proclaimed progressive for going on a program that he knows is going to spin it in a way that doesn't consider the nuances he's trying to represent. I don't see what's wrong with criticizing that.
 
Xe4 said:
I do think it was important to get his story out there, and it does suck that he was ignored by other media. That said, as a progressive individual, he should know the effect that going on Tucker Carlson has with regards to the narrative that is spun by both the right wing and the country. Him getting his story in the NYT had a far greater effect in trying to change the minds that he wanted to change than going on Fox ever would.

I'm not going to yell at him or call for his resignation (even if I was at Evergreen). Certainly, I'm not going to do something as disgusting as threaten him or go in a mob around the University disrupting learning. However, it does disappoint me as someone who considers myself progressive, and I find that I strongly disagree with his decision in this regard.
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It's easy to say that now from the outside looking in; however, when you feel you and your family are in actual physical danger, being smeared on all fronts with few defenders, and your entire professional career and livlihood are on the line, you may be excused for grasping at any lifeline available in order to get your side out before it's too late.

As I said before, blame the people that failed him and dogpiled. He did what he had to. He had no obligation to be a martyr.
 
Xe4 said:
I mean, he went on Joe Rogan and got his story in the NYT. That's already a bunch of media attention towards a small school in Washington. He could've tried to get his side of the story in local media broadcasts too, which also matter.



I did listen to the Joe Rogan interview when it first happened. And I am concerned with tthe way the students and faculty at the university acted, as I've said time and time again. Criticizing the students isn't difficult, because what they did was very, very wrong. Every time these events come up I have and will continue to criticize idiots on the left. I don't give a fuck if me criticizing them "hurts the narrative" or whatever.

But I can multitask. I can also criticize a self proclaimed progressive for going on a program that he knows is going to spin it in a way that doesn't consider the nuances he's trying to represent. I don't see what's wrong with criticizing that.
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Ah okay, fair enough I get you a bit better now. I think Dhx below summarised things a bit better than me. He was "drowning" in the situation and got an out. Maybe not a good one but it was the springboard needed. Like it or not a lot of the college campus craziness gets picked up first from the right. It's like low hanging fruit these days, but unlike some of the eye rolling stories around colleges this one deserved mainstream attention due to the threats and large-scale bullying behaviour. Then the faculty and Dean completely failing to manage and run the campus. From what I recall Evergreen is partially tax funded too?

Dhx said:
It's easy to say that now from the outside looking in; however, when you feel you and your family are in actual physical danger, being smeared on all fronts with few defenders, and your entire professional career and livlihood are on the line, you may be excused for grasping at any lifeline available in order to get your side out before it's too late.

As I said before, blame the people that failed him and dogpiled. He did what he had to. He had no obligation to be a martyr.
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Dhx said:
It's easy to say that now from the outside looking in; however, when you feel you and your family are in actual physical danger, being smeared on all fronts with few defenders, and your entire professional career and livlihood are on the line, you may be excused for grasping at any lifeline available in order to get your side out before it's too late.

As I said before, blame the people that failed him and dogpiled. He did what he had to. He had no obligation to be a martyr.
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Audioboxer said:
Ah okay, fair enough I get you a bit better now. I think Dhx below summarised things a bit better than me. He was "drowning" in the situation and got an out. Maybe not a good one but it was the springboard needed. Like it or not a lot of the college campus craziness gets picked up first from the right. It's like low hanging fruit these days, but unlike some of the eye rolling stories around colleges this one deserved mainstream attention due to the threats and large-scale bullying behaviour. Then the faculty and Dean completely failing to manage and run the campus. From what I recall Evergreen is partially tax funded too?
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That's fair enough I suppose. I still can't agree with his decision, but that makes a bit more sense.
 
I've read a couple articles on this whole situation and the only conclusion I can make with any certainty is that Weinstein was more in the right than the students harassing him. Given the background of how the univeristy is set up and deals with equity, I can see how his problem with the reversed day of absence may or may not make sense, and to me what it comes down to is whether there really was a coercive force that might have threatened the success and reputations of anyone who ignored the request to stay off-campus. If this scenario had gone no further than his original email, I would have thought that Weinstein probably had the wrong take on a harmless situation, but given how horribly many students reacted, his apprehension about what was going on seems totally justified.

Concerning appearing on Tucker Carlson's show, my original impression was that as much as he deserves to get his side of the story out, there surely must have been some better options of where to do it, and even if there were not it still seemed selfish to enable the bigoted right by giving them ammo against 'PC culture' and such, but it occurs to me to ask whether it actually would have been better had he not gone on the show. If he hadn't, then Tucker and the right surely would have still picked this story up, but instead of an interview format of Tucker asking (biased, loaded) questions and Bret giving his measured responses, it would have just been a monologue by Tucker making his own selective observations and conclusions to frame things even more to his liking. I don't know much about Weinstein or what kind of person he is, and he may have not have thought out his decision to appear at all, but it's also possible that he stopped to consider whether it would do more harm than good and concluded for these reasons that it actually wouldn't, so I'm not sure if I can blame him for it.
 
Cagey said:
The attempts to turn "white moderate" and "white centrist" into a pejorative on this site, originating with the counter-memeifing of MLK Jr., are as comical as they are misguided.

And they're also revealing of the absolutist mentality and an ugliness of the political/racial attitudes of the person trying to invoke the phrase as a pejorative.
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Great post.
 
Trident said:
I'm still not sure what else he was supposed to do, since other media outlets were ignoring him.
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1. Bullshit, I'd like to see receipts for Fox being literally the last resort. There are no such receipts.
2. You don't have to be a professor to know that going on Fox is just about the fastest way to destroy your legitimacy - which he'd still have if he hadn't made that choice.
3. If you're going to go on Fox, because for some professorial reason, you've ignored the above, then TUCKER FUCKING CARLSON? REALLY?


Btw I think his original note and his point are legit. And I think the college and students handled it atrociously and I think they probably owe him the money. But, 1, 2, 3.
 
crooked spin said:
Damn, that evilore post should be pinned to the top of this forum.
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It explains so much about that period of time in Off Topic. I'm as liberal as they come and even I avoided this place then since the slightest hint of anything remotely centrist would get you instabanned, even in the context of having a discussion.
 
Read the letter and saw the Tucker vid. He didn't really say anything particularly coming off as alt-rightish. But I agree it was a bad idea to go on his show (and other right-wing outlets like The Rubin Report).
 
Cagey said:
The attempts to turn "white moderate" and "white centrist" into a pejorative on this site, originating with the counter-memeifing of MLK Jr., are as comical as they are misguided.

And they're also revealing of the absolutist mentality and an ugliness of the political/racial attitudes of the person trying to invoke the phrase as a pejorative.
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Agree 100%. "Both sides-ism!" is another pejorative being overused to dismiss arguments out of hand constantly. Granted, it can be a purposeful tactic as demonstrated by Trump's idiotic Charlottesville speech, but many issues are just not nearly as one sided as leftists think. Nuance is now often viewed as a distraction or obstacle on the path towards racial equity, and anyone bringing it up gets labelled a part of the problem and dismissed immediately. I feel like I want to blame Twitter a lot... but that's another topic.

I'm glad to see Bret got some compensation though it's sad that him and his wife left the college. Anyone interested in the dynamics of colleges and free speech might want to check out the beginning of this Sam Harris podcast: https://www.samharris.org/podcast/item/the-limits-of-persuasion Harris talks with two professors (who have their own really good podcast as well) about the state of free speech on college campus, and whether or not there is a "chilling" effect on what professors feel free to say now due to the current political dynamic. Really interesting stuff.

crooked spin said:
Damn, that evilore post should be pinned to the top of this forum.
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.
 
Stinkles said:
WHOOOOOAAAAAAAAA


I had no idea.
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Ironic considering how GAF glorified his "ban hammer" tendencies with gif after gif. Many of the bans that I saw him levy over the years were obviously justified, but I wonder if the adoration for being strict and heavy-handed with bans got to his head. Crazy to hear that he went rogue like that though.
 
What is the time line of his appearances? It seemed to me he did Fox first which then got the attention of the others. I still personally would not have gone to Fox but he was probably fearful of his job.

Think it should also be mentioned that he was probably at risk more from white students then anyone else.
 
Karsticles said:
The guy was threatened by students, the campus administration told police not to protect him, and students followed and harassed him everywhere, calling him a racist and demanding that he resign.

All because he said it wasn't appropriate for black students to force white people off-campus for an event.

This was the kind of nightmare event that the far right fantasizes about. This campus is an absolute madhouse.
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wasn't it voluntary? so it wasn't forcing them.
 
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