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[TacticalFox88]

Bob Jones University? You lost the battle before it even began.

 

[Xater]

You never had professors who sucked and/or were stupid?

Apparently I am very lucky.

I had profs I did not like but they never treated me unfairly. As long as my argument is backed up everything is a-ok.

Oh and those comments from your fellow students are gold. If anyone at my university would write this:

Nicole was right when she said that evolutionists are insecure. They have a good reason to be; they are wrong.

They would be laughed out of the building.

 

[2San]

There is nothing wrong with Dawkin's statement, so long as he begins with the premise that god doesn't exist.

That's the thing with science. Science doesn't say that God doesn't exist. Science just finds God irrelevant(and I agree with this notion). There is no absolute truth period. I'll make it easier. It's a fact that pigs can't fly. It's commonly accepted that every pig can't fly, but have you seen every pig in existence? While it's highly highly unlikely it's possible there are flying pigs somewhere.

 

[Evolved1]

Oh no, I'm talking about a thread before that one...

But to sum it up: I better go there and obey my parents or I'll be a homeless bum on the streets.

Sorry bro if I was in your situation I'd tell the professor/university/parents to fuck off... no one that really cares about you would ask you to compromise your personal integrity.

I'd rather flip burgers at a fast food place than live a lie for a fake degree. I have. My folks stuck me in a religious YEC school (not a college -- i was long gone by then) and I quit. Forced my way back into the public school system. After graduation, worked for a few years in shitty jobs until I could afford to get myself into university. Now I study real science.

My relationship with my folks is better these days and we just agree to disagree on many things... they've even helped me at different times when I really needed it.

You have to break a thing before you can mend it...

You're gonna do what you have to do... I mean people can't make these kinds of decisions for you. But if you choose to stay at this shithole of an institution... you better just suck it up and do your own fucking homework. None of us want to read crap like this assignment -- we know what it is. Yeah, it's preposterous. It's not right. But hey... that's where you attend and they lack integrity. So get used to it.

Or get the fuck out.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Apparently I am very lucky.

I had profs I did not like but they never treated me unfairly. As long as my argument is backed up everything is a-ok.

Very lucky. PC and post-modernism have, I find, turned universities into breeding grounds for foolishness and dogma, at least in the liberal arts sector.

 

[Jasup]

How about:

"Reality is narrow minded, there is only one way universe exists, everything else is false. Unfortunately for many this creates a problem, as opinions and ideas about the state of reality can be shown, independently, to be either true or not. Those who deny the truth about how universe, the world and life were formed are left with two options - lying, and falsifying the evidence, or straight out bullying. For those with political agenda, the former option is becoming more and more difficult to use, as with new information technology people have access to information and true facts. This leaves bullying as the only real option these propagandists have to further their cause - with them it's either accept their views without consideration or you're nothing."

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Just read the OP with disgust.

We're not significantly religious in the UK (and thankfully getting less religious with each passing year), and I don't think we have any higher-education institutes teaching such ignorant, backward bullshit.

You're being asked to construct an argument that disregards centuries of scientific progress, measurement, studies and debates, by people far far smarter than you or I, and the only resource you have for your argument is quotes from a badly-translated magic fucking book.

This idiocy cannot be called education, and OP you are doing yourself more harm than good being there. You're proagandising the cause of the willfully ignorant, as they hold their idiocy up as a banner of pride. It doesn't matter if you're only paying lip service to their madness, you are still furthering their cause of pulling us back into the dark ages.

Get the fuck out of that place.

 

[GavinGT]

That's the thing with science. Science doesn't say that God doesn't exist. Science just finds God irrelevant(and I agree with this notion). There is no absolute truth period. I'll make it easier. It's a fact that pigs can't fly. It's commonly accepted that every pig can't fly, but have you seen every pig in existence? While it's highly highly unlikely it's possible there are flying pigs somewhere.

Dawkins does.

 

[luxarific]

Bob Jones, jeebus. You have my sympathy.

My only advice is to secretly film everything and then release a documentary after you graduate. Sort of like Jesus Camp, only for Bob Jones Uni.

Realistically, get the hell out and get a real education.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

Dawkins does.

Not in the strongest sense, really; he says that, based on his knowledge of the world, a God is not necessary for the universe to exist. Therefore, he doesn't believe in one.

 

[Darklord]

Dawkins does.

He's just as ignorant as the religious people then. Scientists like Hawkins say that God might be real. They just don't believe in any god we've come up with.

 

[2San]

Dawkins does.

If he literally said that, it's a pretty flawed statement. Just because something is said by a scientist doesn't make it science.

 

[jgkspsx]

Help set me straight Evolution-GAF.

For your own sake, do whatever it takes to go to a university that will help you have a career outside the parallel universe that your school exists in.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Not in the strongest sense, really; he says that, based on his knowledge of the world, a God is not necessary for the universe to exist. Therefore, he doesn't believe in one.

That was always logical to me. For those that oppose the view, consider:

No evidence of a giant purple space hippo that lives on Mars -> We assume there is no giant purple space hippo that lives on Mars.

No evidence that molecules are held together by tiny iron chains -> We assume there are no tiny iron chains.

No evidence of a magic space wizard who is everywhere and nowhere, who made the universe and made himself, who tries to save us from Satan and yet made Satan -> We assume there is no god.

Always made perfect sense to me that.

 

[MattKeil]

Dawkins does.

No, he doesn't. He places himself at 6 on his 1-7 belief scale (7 being "Definitely no god") and explicitly states that no reasonable person can be a 7. He admits he's probably like a 6.99, but believe it or not, Richard Dawkins does have as clear a view (possibly moreso!) of the issue as Incensed Agnostic GAF.

 

[TacticalFox88]

Just take a look at the rules.

Posters of movie and music stars and fashion models are not permitted. The subjects of personal photos should not exhibit immodesty or inappropriate physical contact.
Music must be compatible with the University’s music standards: New Age, jazz, rock, and country music is not permitted. Contemporary Christian music is not permitted (e.g., Michael W. Smith, Stephen Curtis Chapman, WOW Worship, and so forth).
Televisions, DVD/videotape players and headphones are not permitted in the residence halls; computer DVD players may not be used to view movies.
You may not possess or play computer and video games rated T, M, A, or E10, or having elements of blood and gore, sensual or demonic themes, or featuring suggestive dress, bad language, or rock music.
Due to space considerations, appliances such as mini-refrigerators and microwaves are not permitted in residence hall rooms. A refrigerator and microwaves are provided in each residence hall.
Residence hall students may not watch videos above a G rating when visiting homes in town and may not attend movie theaters.
All weapons must be turned in for storage. Trigger locks are required for pistols. Fireworks are not permitted on campus.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[GavinGT]

No, he doesn't. He places himself at 6 on his 1-7 belief scale (7 being "Definitely no god") and explicitly states that no reasonable person can be a 7. He admits he's probably like a 6.99, but believe it or not, Richard Dawkins does have as clear a view (possibly moreso!) of the issue as Incensed Agnostic GAF.

I'm not saying he has any insider knowledge. It's just that he's so sure of his opinion that he treats it like fact. He wouldn't go around providing disclaimers on every single thing he says: "Oh, unless god actually did it". Though he might say that in a playful manner.

 

[Drkirby]

Oh no, I'm talking about a thread before that one...

But to sum it up: I better go there and obey my parents or I'll be a homeless bum on the streets.

I would consider just going homeless. At the very least the FASFA will more or less give you a free ride though any state collage you can get accepted to if you are legally homeless. You would have to struggle for a while, but you don't get far in life always taking the easy way out.

Just take a look at the rules.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I don't see what is so funny about the weapons one. Yet to be honest, I can't find anything in my student handbook that don't permits having a weapon. Doesn't seem the school bars anything as long as it is legal.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

Just take a look at the rules.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Its like an episode of Sliders. A world where religion dominates the entire education system.

They're trying to cut off any outside stimuli or at least manage it, to propagate an unquestioning cohort of religiously-programmed individuals, zealots for life. Even the restrictions on theatre, be it performance or movie, is cutting them off from a form of artistic expression.

Its sinister, and any parent who sends their children to this abhorent place is a bad one.

 

[Xater]

Just take a look at the rules.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I think you should have also bolded the part that not even contemporary christian music is allowed.

I also think I know a single person who would not get thrown out of this "school". BWAHAHA

 

[Ravidrath]

I think you should take this to the department head, principle or someone else and get the teacher reprimanded.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Be like:

"Yo Jer, why we still got monkeys?"

 

[GavinGT]

I think you should take this to the department head, principle or someone else and get the teacher reprimanded.

You mean congratulated?

 

[Darklord]

Just take a look at the rules.


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

GTFO while you still can! Isn't the OP the 20-something year old who was too scared to tell his parents he doesn't want to go to church? And he goes to a university like THIS? Holy shit!

 

[Evolved1]

That's the thing with science. Science doesn't say that God doesn't exist. Science just finds God irrelevant(and I agree with this notion). There is no absolute truth period. I'll make it easier. It's a fact that pigs can't fly. It's commonly accepted that every pig can't fly, but have you seen every pig in existence? While it's highly highly unlikely it's possible there are flying pigs somewhere.

Here's the problem with this line of thinking, this common criticism of science: false equivalence.

Pigs cannot fly. They do not have wings and everything we know about biology and physics points to their inability to ever take flight. It would require fucking magic.

Could magic be true? No.

But for the sake of this retarded argument. Ok... maybe there's a 0.000000000000000009% chance that magic could make a pig fly. Probably giving magic a little too much credit there in that figure... but for the sake of argument...

Ok... now lets make a pie chart: pigs can fly vs pigs cant fly.

Wait... but it looks like only one color on our chart! You can't even see the nano-sized "pigs can fly" percentage on the chart! It's invisible!

And yet someone will fucking argue this slightest, worse than invisible to the naked eye fraction of a percent means anything. They will use the fact that one cannot prove a negative, while completely ignoring burden of proof, ask something of science that it's not designed to provide, and then will take this tiniest sliver of doubt and build their entire fucking case on it:

"There's no such thing as absolute truth! So hey... WOO HOO ANYTHING GOES!"

While that is mostly exaggeration... using the inherent skepticism built into science as a way to lessen the absurdity of one's own anti-science position if fucking fallacious... it's a desperate attempt grasping at false equivalence. And it's way too common.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Dude.

Take some loans, get the fuck out. What can you even do with a degree from that place? Certainly no scientific field will take you...

 

[Pandaman]

homelessness ain't that bad bro, get a loan and a real school! the years you're wasting at this trasheap are worth more than the money your parents are shelling out.

 

[WillyFive]

It's annoying how people try to use science to disprove God. It's impossible. Usually the same evidence supports both arguments (common descent, common design), and it just ends in people getting mad and lowering the quality of discussion on GAF. It's like saying:

A God is not necessary for the universe to exist. Therefore, he doesn't believe in one.

Shouldn't there be something in between those two lines to make the connection?

Religion and Science are (often) incompatible, because both are (often) talking about different things.

Stop getting so worked up about things like this. I'm sure there is a grain of truth in the comments those students have made ("if you are going to live like there is no God, you better be right."), but it doesn't have to be 100% the reason. What is big and important for someone, another may not pay much attention to it, or may have even thought of it.

Perhaps Richard Dawkins is a bit too engaged (there is no defense for what he has been quoted saying, especially in the OP), but I'm sure most of science has no reason to battle religion.

 

[Blair]

fuck all parents who don't allow their kids to make their own minds up about religions and gods.

 

[zoukka]

Hehe it's kinda cool that you have an opportunity to stand against all that with this paper. Just stand openly atheistic and show you're a man. Crush those fools.

 

[Dresden]

As people have been telling you for the last few threads you've made, leave that school. Get some loans, move out, and get to a different city and state. A bit of debt is nothing compared to the misery of leading such a fake life.

 

[ivysaur12]

Bob Jones, jeebus. You have my sympathy.

My only advice is to secretly film everything and then release a documentary after you graduate. Sort of like Jesus Camp, only for Bob Jones Uni.

Realistically, get the hell out and get a real education.

Really though, you should do that. You could make a lot of money afterward.

The BJU science department, which supports young-earth creationism,[24] offers majors in biology, chemistry, and physics and also offers courses in astronomy. In 2008 no member of the BJU science faculty held a degree in geology,[25] and the university offered only one introductory course in the subject.[26] Although ten of the sixteen members of the science faculty have undergraduate degrees from BJU, all earned their doctorates from accredited, non-religious institutions of higher learning.[25]

Although BJU admitted Asians and other minorities from its inception, it did not enroll black students until 1971, eight years after the University of South Carolina and Clemson University had been integrated by court order. From 1971 to 1975, BJU admitted only married blacks, although the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) had already determined in 1970 that "private schools with racially discriminatory admissions policies" were not entitled to federal tax exemption. Late in 1971, BJU filed suit to prevent the IRS from taking its tax exemption, but in 1974, in Bob Jones University v. Simon, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the University did not have standing to sue until the IRS actually assessed taxes. Four months later, on May 29, 1975, the University Board of Trustees authorized a change in policy to admit "students of any race," a move that occurred shortly before the announcement of the Supreme Court decision in Runyon v. McCrary (427 U.S. 160 [1976]), which prohibited racial exclusion in private schools.[92]

In May 1975, as it prepared to allow unmarried blacks to enroll, BJU adopted more detailed rules prohibiting interracial dating and marriage—threatening expulsion for any student who dated or married interracially, who advocated interracial marriage, who was "affiliated with any group or organization which holds as one of its goals or advocates interracial marriage," or "who espouse, promote, or encourage others to violate the University's dating rules and regulations."[93] In a 2000 interview, the then-president, Bob Jones III, said that interracial dating had been prohibited since the 1950s and that the policy had originated in a complaint by parents of a male Asian student who believed that their son had "nearly married" a white girl.[94]

# Fred Phelps, pastor of Westboro Baptist Church and perhaps best known for his "God Hates Fags" website and public protests. His association with the school ended abruptly after three semesters. Phelps once claimed he left because of opposition to the school's racial policies. In 1994, BJU employees told the Topeka Capital Journal that Phelps was expelled due to mental instability. In 2006 and 2009, Phelps—who has picketed BJU as well as funerals of servicemen—denied that he had ever attended the University.[12]

Yeah... this is worse than Liberty.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

No evidence of a magic space wizard who is everywhere and nowhere, who made the universe and made himself, who tries to save us from Satan and yet made Satan -> We assume there is no god.

A lot of people fall under the "I like to believe in a creator after understanding the profound intricacies and complexity of life, and having the chance to live it" category. But you can stay condescending and bunching all of religion into the biblical variety if it spreads your feathers. Most people here do.

 

[2San]

Here's the problem with this line of thinking, this common criticism of science: false equivalence.

Pigs cannot fly. They do not have wings and everything we know about biology and physics points to their inability to ever take flight. It would require fucking magic.

Could magic be true? No.

But for the sake of this retarded argument. Ok... maybe there's a 0.000000000000000009% chance that magic could make a pig fly. Probably giving magic a little too much credit there in that figure... but for the sake of argument...

Ok... now lets make a pie chart: pigs can fly vs pigs cant fly.

Wait... but it looks like only one color on our chart! You can't even see the nano-sized "pigs can fly" percentage on the chart! It's invisible!

And yet someone will fucking argue this slightest, worse than invisible to the naked eye fraction of a percent means anything. They will use the fact that one cannot prove a negative, while completely ignoring burden of proof, ask something of science that it's not designed to provide, and then will take this tiniest sliver of doubt and build their entire fucking case on it:

"There's no such thing as absolute truth! So hey... WOO HOO ANYTHING GOES!"

While that is mostly exaggeration... using the inherent skepticism built into science as a way to lessen the absurdity of one's own anti-science position if fucking fallacious... it's a desperate attempt grasping at false equivalence. And it's way too common.

There is no problem with that line of thinking it's what science is. I never took an anti-science position. In my first post I even tried to explain the importance of science. It's a core value of science to never reject anything outright. I fully believe in evolution, but claiming that it can never ever be proven otherwise is madness. I never said anything goes. Honestly stop making shit up.

 

[Evolved1]

There is no problem with that line of thinking it's what science is. I never took an anti-science position. In my first post I even tried to explain the importance of science. It's a core value of science to never reject anything outright. I fully believe in evolution, but claiming that it can never ever be proven otherwise is madness.

I argue that, for all practical purposes, it's false equivalence.

 

[2San]

I argue that it's false equivalence.

If we happen to find that the vast majority of animals show no signs of evolution. What then? Would you still then hold a theory true that has no practical importance?

 

[The Technomancer]

That's the thing with science. Science doesn't say that God doesn't exist. Science just finds God irrelevant(and I agree with this notion). There is no absolute truth period. I'll make it easier. It's a fact that pigs can't fly. It's commonly accepted that every pig can't fly, but have you seen every pig in existence? While it's highly highly unlikely it's possible there are flying pigs somewhere.

Bingo. God doesn't exist, but neither does he not exist, according to science. There is no evidence for or against a god, so the question is inherently meaningless.

Where I take issue with Dawkins is that while he clams to hold true to that principle, the sheer seeming vitriol with which he attacks religion is distasteful to me. You don't get to use emotionally charged phrases like "religious people are stupid" and just append the equivalent of "no offense intended" to the end, claiming that you're not insulting them.

 

[News Bot]

You're wasting your time. Get the fuck out of there. Even if it's the only uni your parents would pay for or whatever. Stop draining your soul.

 

[Acerac]

A lot of people fall under the "I like to believe in a creator after understanding the profound intricacies and complexity of life, and having the chance to live it" category. But you can stay condescending and bunching all of religion into the biblical variety if it spreads your feathers. Most people here do.

I like how your post had absolutely no relevance to what you quoted. He was saying why he did not believe in God, not bashing Christians.

It's cool though, you can stay absurdly defensive if you like. Most people do that when presented with logic that goes against their beliefs.

*Edit*

On a side note, Atra always makes the funniest threads, though I don't think he means to.

 

[Atramental]

Bob Jones, jeebus. You have my sympathy.

My only advice is to secretly film everything and then release a documentary after you graduate. Sort of like Jesus Camp, only for Bob Jones Uni.

Realistically, get the hell out and get a real education.

Anyone want to donate me a flip camera?

 

[Raist]

Comment on what? The fact that he says that people who say that evolution is BS are stupide, insane or ignorant?
Well he's right. Nothing to discuss here. You just have to have a look at their usual argument. "2nd law of thermodynamics lol!" etc.

 

[Kinitari]

It's annoying how people try to use science to disprove God.

Who's doing that? At most people are using science to show that the Abrahamic representation of 'creation' is utterly false.

It's impossible. Usually the same evidence supports both arguments (common descent, common design),

No, the evidence absolutely does not support any Creationist view. The evidence entirely substantiates evolution theory.

Shouldn't there be something in between those two lines to make the connection?

No? If it is written that god did A B and C, and we then find out that it's not the case, God is removed from the equation.

 

[Evolved1]

If we happen to find that the vast majority of animals show no signs of evolution. What then? Would you still then hold a theory true that has no practical importance?

This is what I'm talking about. Your example is very exaggerated... it's so unlikely that I consider even the suggestion of it to be disingenuous.

 

[teh_pwn]

Dawkins does.

No, he constantly says that science doesn't disprove God and at times says he's an agnostic but for all practical purposes he's an atheist because it is improbability in his opinion that a god exists. Stuff's all over youtube.

 

[Xater]

Anyone want to donate me a flip camera?

You don't have to pay for your awful school, get one yourself. lol

 

[2San]

This is what I'm talking about. Your example is very exaggerated... it's so unlikely that I consider even the suggestion of it to be disingenuous.

Yeah, but that's what critical thinking and science is. If something is infallible it isn't science. Trust me, I'm fully aware how low the chances actually are.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Anyone want to donate me a flip camera?

You get a million dollar idea for free already. Invest some yourself.

Seriously, just write some shit down you know will make them happy and be done with it. From what I read in your threads, nothing will change anyway no matter what we tell you.

 

[teh_pwn]

The absurdity of a science class not teaching evolution annoys the hell out of me. Ask your teacher about super bacteria strains that are resistant to antibiotics and how antibiotics aren't used as much anymore because of it. This is evolution by natural selection reproduced in recent history.

 

[Pandaman]

A lot of people fall under the "I like to believe in a creator after understanding the profound intricacies and complexity of life, and having the chance to live it" category. But you can stay condescending and bunching all of religion into the biblical variety if it spreads your feathers. Most people here do.

you realize there's no actual difference between the two right?

 

[TacticalFox88]

Anyone want to donate me a flip camera?

Save yourself money and buy you a really good camera. Just make an excuse to why you're filming them, and go from there. I'd ask a professional to edit it all, and you may want to narrate it yourself.