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EW: Ben Affleck promises 'a more traditional Batman' in Justice League
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
Inferno313
Banned
Batman as a villain could work, but they didn't commit to it fully.
Triggerhappytel
Member
It's fine. I'm sure most of us could take being slammed through 2+ brick walls at hundreds of miles an hour and barely feel a thing.
This is the dumbest complaint. Supes moves at super speed. He could have had his back to the walls as he flew the dude out or broken it with an arm out. The movie explicitly says he didn't kill the guy and you refuse to believe it.
Inferno313
Banned
Multiculturalism isn't what Affleck says.
There have been many iterations of Batman over the years, I don't know why everyone is so upset about WB wanting to try something new.
He's not supposed to be a villain tho. Just a hard ass who lost his way.
Ugh, you're right, my bad. I've had a ton of instances of poor reading comprehension lately.
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
That's good if only to quell the complaints from the people who conveniently ignore Baleman and the rest were also killers. BTAS Bats is my Batman so I'd prefer one that never killed but whatever.
Superman couldn't possibly have shielded him from any major damage. /s
Superman couldn't possibly have shielded him from any major damage. /s
Those variations aren't within 'continuity', whereas WB is trying to build a cinematic continuity.
Deviations from the source material hamper the amount that you can pull from it later on.
They can try, of course, but if they only want to use the name of the character I would argue they should create new, not warp the old. Trust in the foundational elements of a character that's been relevant for 80 years.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Because it was terrible.
Inferno313
Banned
Yeah, he's totally not the villain of this story.
The film would've worked a lot better if they fully commited to that idea, Superman being the clear-cut protagonist and Batman being the villain up until the third act. One of the film's many problems is that it doesn't know weather to treat Bruce as the villain or the protagonist.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
BVS Batman was perfectly in keeping the Dark Knight Returns vibe Snyder was going for, and that series was rightfully hailed as classic in its day.
I'd also add that I found BVS Batman a whole lot more relatable than ass-hat Tony Stark in Civil War.
Inferno313
Banned
ಠ_ಠ
Have you read The Dark Knight Returns? That's a Batman who tells Robin to watch his language. It's a Batman who breaks a gun in two, proclaiming it to be the weapon of cowards. It's a Batman who tells Superman to stay out of his way, before beating him up.
The only similarities are visual.
BattleMonkey
Member
So folks should be ok with batman killing in his new depiction too!
Inferno313
Banned
Snyder excels at masterfully capturing the iconography of a work while misunderstanding it on every level beyond that.
Watchmen is such a bizarre film in that it can simultaneously be an almost shot-for-shot adaptation of the book and still misunderstand the source material so deeply.
DeathoftheEndless
Crashing this plane... with no survivors!
Other than being an aging Batman, I don't think they are all that similar.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yeah I have, I'm just looking at it right now.
Few things: Robin in TDKR is a girl, although at times he misidentifes her as the (long dead) Jason Todd. Batman also takes sadistic pleasure in deliberately hurting thugs - there's a passage where he selects his method of approach based on that fact.
As Alan Moore mentions in the intro; Miller's version of Bats in that miniseries bridges the gap between revenge-driven psycho and noble crusader; he's a legend but a kinda compromised one. Same deal with Superman; Supes is still noble but he's hamstrung by politics and compromised as a result.
Yup.
The Tim Burton Batman's were trash too.
Sucks we've gone from Nolans Bat to this abomination though.
cr0w
Old Member
Agree to disagree on that one. I consider TDK/TDKR Batman to be the worst live-action version we've gotten so far. Begins was so close to being perfect, and then we got....that. But I understand that to a lot of people that's the Batman they grew up with. Most people didn't grow up with the comics.
Inferno313
Banned
cr0w
Old Member
You have to understand I'm an old comic nerd. Baleman is farther from the traditional characterization of Batman in the second and third movies than any other adaptation so far. My perspective on the character is totally different from people who've only been exposed to him via TV and film.
He was a good Batman for the film universe that Nolan created. That's all that matters. I just personally didn't like where he took the films after Begins.
Hell, the "brutal" Batman story isn't only lifted from the TDKR comic series. It's also directly from A Lonely Place of Dying (which introduced Tim Drake) and its preceding arcs that directly dealt with Batman becoming more brutal and unhinged after Jason's death until Tim, Alfred and Dick have to step in and remind him what his original purpose was.
Inferno313
Banned
How so, though? Like, I grew up on Batman: The Animated Series, and have read most of the biggest stories from the character's history. As a teenager, the Nolan films grabbed me because I felt like these were the first films that actually get the core of all of the characters correct. Yeah, aesthetically it diverges from the comics further than the Burton films did, that's fair. But on a character level, Bale's Batman, Caine's Alfred, Oldman's Gordon, were all much more true to the characters that I loved than any of the previous takes on those characters.
I want a Batman movie in the vein of The Long Halloween and Scott Snyder's run.
Inferno313
Banned
I mean, The Dark Knight is damn near an adaptation of The Long Halloween.
I'd absolutely be down for some Court of the Owls though.
cr0w
Old Member
I loved Gordon and Alfred, thought they were phenomenal. I thought his take on Bruce in Begins was phenomenal, probably my favorite film version up until BvS hit, which became my favorite because of just how close he was to the comics I grew up reading. Pretty much every character EXCEPT Bruce in TDK/TDKR was damn near spot-on.
I don't like Bruce having a love interest that he's willing to give everything up for, for one. At the end of Begins, it's made very clear that he needs Batman as much as Gotham does, and nothing will ever change that. Both in his talks with Rachel and with Gordon, that's hammered home.
That's completely reversed in TDK with his pining for Rachel and wanting Gotham to have a new hero who doesn't have to operate in the shadows. He looks at Batman as a necessary burden until someone else can take his place, and when Gotham doesn't need him anymore, he wants to retire with Rachel and live a happy little domestic life. When that doesn't pan out, he retreats to his mansion for years and becomes a hermit, again completely ignoring the character that they established in Begins.
TDKR just felt like a half-hearted effort anyway so I won't really get into the specifics of why I don't like it since I'll be here all day, but again it really boils down to, "I don't want to do this, but I guess I have to since no one else will until I find an out to go on holiday with my lady."
I get that that's where Nolan wanted to go with the character and it works in his universe, but it's never sat right with me that he was always looking for an out so he could stop being Batman. It's just very, very far removed from who Bruce Wayne is in the comics and even in Begins. It's just a version of the character that I personally didn't like. That's not me putting down anyone else's opinions of or love for the films, it's purely my feelings on them.
He appeared in the credits as Bruce Wayne.
Pretty sure he also appeared as Batman in some of the Batman scenes too.
I meant something more atmospheric, with Batman doing a lot of detective work.
Yep, everyone wanted TDKR Batman... until we got TDKR Batman, then they wanted to scream "Not muh Batmans!!1!1"
Yeah, he's totally not the villain of this story.
The film would've worked a lot better if they fully commited to that idea, Superman being the clear-cut protagonist and Batman being the villain up until the third act. One of the film's many problems is that it doesn't know weather to treat Bruce as the villain or the protagonist.
I always thought Batman was supposed to be a villain protagonist. Superman was just a guy that kept having negative shit happen to him
He also, shoots criminals with guns!
Why do people insist Batman didn't kill this guy here? I mean:
1) batman shot the gun with a very powerful gun
2) bullet went through criminal as evidence by the bullet hole in the wall
3) criminal is left bleeding without any sort of emergency care being offered
Like why do people lie to themselves?
PanSexual_Peacock
Member
He didn't actually kill that guy though.
Yeah, Batman is absolutely supposed to be the villain of BvS. We just see a lot of the movie from the villains perspective instead of Superman's. The "Martha" scene is supposed to be Bruce going
Unfortunately, and this is Snyder's fault, the movie doesn't commit to it enough and doesn't make it clearer to the audience that Batman is the bad guy. It doesn't help that moments later Batman reverts back into hero-mode to help fight a video game final boss.
Unfortunately, and this is Snyder's fault, the movie doesn't commit to it enough and doesn't make it clearer to the audience that Batman is the bad guy. It doesn't help that moments later Batman reverts back into hero-mode to help fight a video game final boss.
Because he doesn't kill anyone - the rest of the story makes no sense if you intepret that scene as him killing the mutant gang memeber. Batman's aversion to killing the Joker, when he's similarly holding people hostage, makes no sense. Comissioner Yindel finally adding murder charges to The Batman's criminal record, after intepreting him as killing The Joker, makes no sense if he can be placed at a crime scene with a dead mutant there.
It's a wishful intepretation that he killed the mutant you linked the image of, as intepreting it as a shoulder shot is as valid.
The most interesting part of bvs to me was the jaded batman who after decades of fighting an endless battle that can never be truly won witthout breaking his one rule, decided to say fuck it, specially after losing robin.
His focus on brute force because of age was awesome as well.
I am sad that they are dropping it. I hoped the batman was going to be that story and how he broke to be the batman in bvs. Still think its the most interesting direction they could go.
His focus on brute force because of age was awesome as well.
I am sad that they are dropping it. I hoped the batman was going to be that story and how he broke to be the batman in bvs. Still think its the most interesting direction they could go.
When this "trilogy" is over, I wonder how it will be viewed as a whole once people step back. Will this supposed arc for Superman actually work out, or will JL not be able to remotely justify the choices made by Snyder's two previous films.
Same with Batman. I would be amazed if I came away from Justice League thinking back on BvS and feeling more accepting of the off-putting creative choices that movie made.
I don't think on paper, the ideas of these films are all bad. But the execution has been such a mess. God I hope JL actually comes out atleast somewhat okay.
Same with Batman. I would be amazed if I came away from Justice League thinking back on BvS and feeling more accepting of the off-putting creative choices that movie made.
I don't think on paper, the ideas of these films are all bad. But the execution has been such a mess. God I hope JL actually comes out atleast somewhat okay.