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[Mengy]

I'm at a loss to understand why people are not seeing the justice angle here.

You want some guy to give up 50% of his deserved compensation to a company like Goldman Sachs? The figures being in the millions make him deserve no sympathy, but surely justice in this case would be to give him what he was owed. He made the entire firm 7 billion, and you can be damn sure that the partners and managers got their cut of the 7 billion+ profit, probably in the hundreds of millions. Isn't it justice to give this guy his cut? Would you feel for him if he only made 70K and was being cheated out of his 80K bonus while the company partners STILL walk away with hundreds of millions?

Again with the bad analogy.

Would I feel for someone who earns $70K a year who was cheated out of an $80K bonus? Yeah, I would. But then, the difference between an $80K bonus and a $7,000,000 bonus is enormous in today's society. The larger bonus has 870% the buying power of the smaller one.

You talk about justice in this situation?

Look at it like this. An $80K bonus would pay off half of my mortgage. That would be very nice.

A $7,000,000 bonus would allow me to quit my job, pay off my house and become debt free, invest conservatively in a manner that would net me six figures per year on interest alone for doing not one damned thing. I could do any number of things with my newfound free time, like write, code games, build Jeeps and sell them for fun, travel around the world, finally get my IFR pilot's license and buy myself an ultralight or even a Supercub. I could fix up my house, I could install solar panels and geothermal heating & cooling in my house. I could volunteer for local office or even animal shelters or charitable foundations.

That's the difference we are talking about here. It's huge in impact and quality of life. Now, tell me, what the hell would an extra $8 million get me? And if I would already have it so astoundingly good with the $7 million, why the fuck would I care?

Yes, without a doubt yes, I would take the $7 million and leave it at that. Let them keep the other half, why the hell would I care how much they got if I had enough of my own? It's not a video game and there isn't a score to be kept, there is a point where enough money is simply enough money and more just isn't necessary IMHO. Anything more than that is simply greed, pure and simple.

 

[poppabk]

Beat me to the comment. Clearly starving.

But I will say this... you make a company 7 billion dollars 8.25 million seems like crap bonus.

How much risk did the company absorb to earn that money though? You could earn them 7 billion by the equivalent of putting 7 billion on black and having it come up black.

 

[Dennis]

This gets me every time. Especially the sad single mom and her sad kids only making $260,000 a year.

 

[Lagspike_exe]

Assuming 15 million won in Powerball:
Lump Sum : (approx) $8,107,143.00 / $4,896,714.00 (after 39.6% federal tax)

"Saying he helped the bank earn more than $7 billion"
Well how much were they projected to make? If they were on track for 6.7 billion and he helped them make 7, that's only 300 million he can take credit for. Or it could be he just did his thing, and 7 billion was generated during that period. I certainly helped Target make it's billions a year by working there, I can't take credit for the entire amount made though. Can this guy?

What? If his desk generated $7bn for GS, than he clearly gets the most credit for it. Considering that he was working with mortgages during the crisis, it could be possible that he made that much.

How much risk did the company absorb to earn that money though? You could earn them 7 billion by the equivalent of putting 7 billion on black and having it come up black.

No one was talking about exposure being the primary reason why he didn't get the bonus.

 

[Angry Grimace]

Nobody needs that much money. Nobody is worth that much money.

Just because you've entered into a career that just so happens to involve the loss or generation of billions of dollars, doesn't mean you deserve a particular percentage of that value. Some of that money should go to ensuring that further losses do not occur.

If you generate $7 billion in revenue you are in fact worth that much money.

 

[Interfectum]

A greedy fuck company screwed over a greedy fuck employee. I weep for his hardships.

This.

 

[Draft]

The thing I can hardly fathom is this guy generating $7,000,000,000 in revenue. For real? And basically just skimming off the top. Move some wealth over here, take a commission. Move some wealth over there, take another commission. Setup this deal, setup that deal, get a little more commission. $7,000,000,000! A cartoonish amount of money. And all created out of other money. Amazing stuff. The economy is like a perpetual motion machine. One dollar goes in, 10 come out.

 

[Moral Panic]

If you generate $7 billion in revenue you are in fact worth that much money.

That's a very big if.

 

[jackie jormp-jomp]

What? If his desk generated $7bn for GS, than he clearly gets the most credit for it. Considering that he was working with mortgages during the crisis, it could be possible that he made that much.



No one was talking about exposure being the primary reason why he didn't get the bonus.

Deeb Salem, a former Goldman Sachs trader who said he helped the bank earn more than $7 billion,

Is that revenue or profit? We all 'help' our employers earn money, as I said earlier, the question is how much. Does Dave from accounting, making 50k, a year finding an accounting error saving the company 400k get any of that? Does Tim working in electronics upselling a $1000 Big Screen get any commission? Not at Target he doesn't, in fact if he didn't sell any hdmi cables or accessories with it (70% attach rate is the minimum, or 70 accessories for every 100 eligible products) then he's wishing he never made the sale, it's lowered his score.

Your telling me this guy, valued at over 5 million, didn't get anything in writing? He was 'Led to believe'? I have a hard time beveling that someone in his industry did something based on someone's word of mouth and not a contract in writing. Considering all the people who were 'led to believe' that they could afford that adjustable mortgage via subprime lending that got us all into this mess, I doubt it somehow that he would fall in this position.

 

[Neffarias_Bredd]

No there aren't.

Oh ok

So I guess all of those millions and millions of Americans working in the financial are all scum trying to rip you off

 

[WalkMan]

The thing I can hardly fathom is this guy generating $7,000,000,000 in revenue. For real? And basically just skimming off the top. Move some wealth over here, take a commission. Move some wealth over there, take another commission. Setup this deal, setup that deal, get a little more commission. $7,000,000,000! A cartoonish amount of money. And all created out of other money. Amazing stuff. The economy is like a perpetual motion machine. One dollar goes in, 10 come out.

Can I ask what your occupation is? You seem a bit bitter.

 

[avaya]

Making USD7bn in the crisis is pure fluke, if it wasn't crisis it is highly unlikely and if it was done then he would have taken on an unbelievable (and likely well past the excepted limits) amount of exposure.

The guy is delusional, but then again as are most of his ilk in banks. People defending his claim are jokers.

 

[User 406]

Should've joined a union, kid.

 

[poppabk]

What? If his desk generated $7bn for GS, than he clearly gets the most credit for it. Considering that he was working with mortgages during the crisis, it could be possible that he made that much.



No one was talking about exposure being the primary reason why he didn't get the bonus.

What I'm saying that without any other knowledge the 7 billion figure could be indicative of poor or good performance. If he was working with 100 billion of capital a 7% return might reflect poor performance. Or if he was gambling with 7 billion on a 50:50 bet, he may have just been lucky.
That is the biggest issue I have with the current banking industry and the huge bonuses that are paid out. They encourage risky behaviour with massive payouts for success and minimal downside. Until we figure out a way to structure banking differently, we will lurch from one crisis to another.

 

[CrunchyB]

What I'm saying that without any other knowledge the 7 billion figure could be indicative of poor or good performance. If he was working with 100 billion of capital a 7% return might reflect poor performance. Or if he was gambling with 7 billion on a 50:50 bet, he may have just been lucky.

My point exactly, well said.

If he could earn 7 billion all by himself in his mom's basement, he would have. But of course that isn't true, he needs GS's capital and infrastructure. And if his bets were to somehow go belly-up, he would have walked away and not lost his shirt.

 

[mackattk]

Fuck this... 8.25 million is more than most people make in their entire lifetime.

 

[CrankyJay]

This gets me every time. Especially the sad single mom and her sad kids only making $260,000 a year.

You do realize in most cases these areas where families are making this kind of money the cost of everything else around is high?

 

[King Cobra]

If he helped his company make $8 billion, giving him the bonus he's entitled to is the least that they should do for him.

 

[Stet]

You do realize in most cases these areas where families are making this kind of money the cost of everything else around is high?

Just how high do you think the cost of living is in these places?

 

[braves01]

This guy helped Goldman short the subprime mortgage backed securities that they continued to sell to customers, i.e. he helped Goldman make a killing off the housing crisis at the expense and misery of millions. I don't care if he gets any of his friggin bonus.

 

[Makai]

You do realize in most cases these areas where families are making this kind of money the cost of everything else around is high?

Where in the United States is $260,000 not a multiple of median personal income?

 

[CrankyJay]

Just how high do you think the cost of living is in these places?

Where in the United States is $260,000 not a multiple of median personal income?

Let's pretend single mom with 2 kids is a lawyer in DC making $260k a year and owns this 1080sq foot home for $449,000: http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...ve-Se_Washington_DC_20020_M69293-31861?row=19

And because she's single she has to put her children in daycare...little Joey and Molly. Daycare runs about $12k/year per child...and that's low for Metro DC...so there's an extra $24k a year.

Not even factoring in transportation, food, clothing, etc...it doesn't go all that far.

 

[dave is ok]

Let's pretend single mom with 2 kids is a lawyer in DC making $260k a year and owns this 1080sq foot home for $449,000: http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...ve-Se_Washington_DC_20020_M69293-31861?row=19

And because she's single she has to put her children in daycare...little Joey and Molly. Daycare runs about $12k/year per child...and that's low for Metro DC...so there's an extra $24k a year.

Not even factoring in transportation, food, clothing, etc...it doesn't go all that far.

Not sure if trolling.

Making 260k/year and owning a 450k house isn't a bad situation. Not to mention the interest rate on her mortgage would probably be under 3% or some shit.

There is nowhere in this country that making 260k is just "getting by". Stop

 

[CrankyJay]

Not sure if trolling.

Making 260k/year and owning a 450k house isn't a bad situation. Not to mention the interest rate on her mortgage would probably be under 3% or some shit.

At current rates...what if she got it during the real estate boom near 6%?

There are so many factors that people are looking at this graphic and are basically saying "fuck these people for making money" when each story is so individual...the guy in the OP complaining is obviously an anomaly.

Could single mom live further out from DC and save some money? Sure...but what if she's required for her job to be a short trip from Capitol Hill?

 

[Dryk]

So an employee of a company isn't compensated fairly while his employer rides to the bank on the back of his work? I guess now he knows what it feels to be like the rest of the labour market.

 

[dave is ok]

At current rates...what if she got it during the real estate boom near 6%?

Then she refinances it when rates go down.

Life is not hard for someone making more than double the median income in one of the wealthiest county in the United States.

 

[daninthemix]

What can you say? Humans gonna be human.

 

[CrankyJay]

Then she refinances it when rates go down.

Life is not hard for someone making more than double the median income in one of the wealthiest county in the United States.

You're not factoring in any other expenses she might have...that's why that chart is so stupid and people are laughing at it. It's not the average American family, but there are people in that situation.

 

[DSN2K]

If I made £7 for my employer I'd want more then 0.01p in a bonus.

 

[Patryn]

At current rates...what if she got it during the real estate boom near 6%?

There are so many factors that people are looking at this graphic and are basically saying "fuck these people for making money" when each story is so individual...the guy in the OP complaining is obviously an anomaly.

Could single mom live further out from DC and save some money? Sure...but what if she's required for her job to be a short trip from Capitol Hill?

The problem with the graphic is that it's trying to portray these wage levels as "average" when in reality the average American income is $51,371. $260,000 is 5 times that number. Do you see why people ridicule it now?

So either the person who made that graphic has literally no idea what a normal person is making, or they were purposefully picking large incomes in order to achieve a scare factor by showing tax implications that appear massive.

 

[nelsonroyale]

I feel pity for this guy. Go on, give him the extra millions, make him a happy chappy.

 

[dave is ok]

You're not factoring in any other expenses she might have...that's why that chart is so stupid and people are laughing at it. It's not the average American family, but there are people in that situation.

I missed whatever chart you're talking about.

People are laughing at the Wall St. Journal infographic because of how out of touch it is.

The problem with the graphic is that it's trying to portray these wage levels as "average" when in reality the average American income is $51,371. $260,000 is 5 times that number. Do you see why people ridicule it now?

So either the person who made that graphic has literally no idea what a normal person is making, or they were purposefully picking large incomes in order to achieve a scare factor by showing tax implications that appear massive.

Average single parent with 2 children is actually $33,637. A 773% increase

 

[Makai]

You're not factoring in any other expenses she might have...that's why that chart is so stupid and people are laughing at it. It's not the average American family, but there are people in that situation.

I don't understand what you're getting at. She's making 10 times median personal income and she can't afford a $3k tax increase? There's so much money left over even in your hypothetical. It's hard to imagine what put her underwater.

 

[Stinkles]

The fact that the institution is able to "earn" 7 billion dollars through the efforts of a single employee, even allegedly, should be deeply troubling to everyone here.

Wall Street is taking that money from somewhere. Let's ask a McDonald's employee or an over leveraged mortgage defaulter where they think it came from.

 

[Buzzati]

Wow. Props to this guy for being able to generate that much income in investment. I wonder what percentage of the amount invested was.

 

[dave is ok]

Wow. Props to this guy for being able to generate that much income in investment. I wonder what percentage of the amount invested was.

It's easy to see the crash of a market coming and short sell appropriately when you're the ones who caused the market to collapse.

 

[CrankyJay]

I missed whatever chart you're talking about.

People are laughing at the Wall St. Journal infographic because of how out of touch it is.

Average single parent with 2 children is actually $33,637. A 773% increase

Sorry, meant infographic as well.

 

[The Faceless Master]

damn, they even screw each other. so dirty.

 

[Buzzati]

It's easy to see the crash of a market coming and short sell appropriately when you're the ones who caused the market to collapse.

That's true. But the market has been ostensibly bullish for the past couple of years. I'm curious to know what his hedge fund looks like.

 

[greatestjediever]

Let's pretend single mom with 2 kids is a lawyer in DC making $260k a year and owns this 1080sq foot home for $449,000: http://www.realtor.com/realestatean...ve-Se_Washington_DC_20020_M69293-31861?row=19

And because she's single she has to put her children in daycare...little Joey and Molly. Daycare runs about $12k/year per child...and that's low for Metro DC...so there's an extra $24k a year.

Not even factoring in transportation, food, clothing, etc...it doesn't go all that far.

I would not have guessed that house as the location for anyone in that WSJ demographic.

 

[CrankyJay]

I would not have guessed that house as the location for anyone in that WSJ demographic.

You think it's for people living in the mid-west?

 

[Earthstrike]

You're not factoring in any other expenses she might have...that's why that chart is so stupid and people are laughing at it. It's not the average American family, but there are people in that situation.

You should complete your expense summary just to see how absurd it is. A single parent making 260k a year even with two kids is fine. It is absolutely insane to actually hear someone making this kind of argument. I'm not even sure how the tangent started, but damn, the 260k a year mom with two kids is not struggling.

 

[Angry Grimace]

You do realize in most cases these areas where families are making this kind of money the cost of everything else around is high?

There isn't an area where that's not a lot of money.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Not under Obama they don't.

But in this case do not hate the player, hate the game. The money he did not get just went to GS shareholders. And no amount of complaining will change the fact that banking is the first beneficiary of corrupt politics and the Fed.

No president is going to fight that battle because they all have their hand in the till.

It's only going to get worse from here with the SC's decisions of late.

 

[Baki]

Nobody needs that much money. Nobody is worth that much money.

Just because you've entered into a career that just so happens to involve the loss or generation of billions of dollars, doesn't mean you deserve a particular percentage of that value. Some of that money should go to ensuring that further losses do not occur.

He generated $7Billion USD. Ofcourse he's worth more than $8 million bonus.

The dude should've gone to a hedge fund.

 

[DoktorEvil]

Could single mom live further out from DC and save some money? Sure...but what if she's required for her job to be a short trip from Capitol Hill?

If she was required to be X hours away from her place of employment and assuming she's a competent enough lawyer to negotiate, she'd request additional compensation for this request.

Not under Obama they don't.

But in this case do not hate the player, hate the game. The money he did not get just went to GS shareholders. And no amount of complaining will change the fact that banking is the first beneficiary of corrupt politics and the Fed.

I'm critical of President Obama but you can't blame him solely for GS going free.

Fact is, what GS did was low down and dirty and unethical as fuck, but not illegal and thus you can't bring a lawsuit to someone unless they broke the law.

 

[King Cobra]

Nobody needs that much money. Nobody is worth that much money.

Just because you've entered into a career that just so happens to involve the loss or generation of billions of dollars, doesn't mean you deserve a particular percentage of that value. Some of that money should go to ensuring that further losses do not occur.

Seeing people think like this gives me a sick feeling in my stomache. Some people strive for much bigger goals than others and should be rewarded as such if they provide results.

 

[CrankyJay]

If she was required to be X hours away from her place of employment and assuming she's a competent enough lawyer to negotiate, she'd request additional compensation for this request.



I'm critical of President Obama but you can't blame him solely for GS going free.

Fact is, what GS did was low down and dirty and unethical as fuck, but not illegal and thus you can't bring a lawsuit to someone unless they broke the law.

That was all she could negotiate.

 

[Benutzer]

He generated $7Billion USD. Ofcourse he's worth more than $8 million bonus.

The dude should've gone to a hedge fund.

He left for a hedge fund in 2012 after he got a $3 million bonus in 2011.

 

[poppabk]

He generated $7Billion USD. Ofcourse he's worth more than $8 million bonus.

The dude should've gone to a hedge fund.

How do you know? How much money was he using to make that $7 billion? How much risk was the company absorbing?
If he lost the company $7 billion, would he be paying them $8 million?