TheRedRiders
Member
*Doesn't hold up for you.
I and many other Playstation gamers have been enjoying our PS5's.
Going back to playing FF16 now, see yah!
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EXCLUSIVE - PS5 Pro in Development, Could Release Late 2024
- Thread starter Daniel_Mallorca1985
- Start date
- News Rumor Hardware
I and many other Playstation gamers have been enjoying our PS5's.
Going back to playing FF16 now, see yah!
PeteBull
Member
the game is switch port, native 8k60 is possible just it has to have graphics complexity around early lvls of ps360 era ;p8K
Fun fact, xbox series x runs it only at 6k60, info confirmed by rich in the video ;D
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Doctor Hades
Member
Yeah, good luck trying to use Project Q outside of the house, on the go. This is why people hate those cloud-based Switch games. Unless it has onboard capacity to download and play retro games locally then Project Q will be about as useful as the Wii U's tablet... and possibly as successful! In my opinion!
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Tarnpanzer
Member
Native 8K60 is not possible, since the PS4 can not give out more than 4k120.
You get the benefit of downsampling though.
PeteBull
Member
Firstly i think u typed ps4 and u meant ps5 ;P
Secondly, as u got in the video description:
Internally rendering at 'full fat' 7680x4320 and running flat out at 60 frames per second, Shin'en Multimedia's The Touryst is officially the first 8K game of the new console generation.
Which means indeed, output is in 4k but console internally renders all the pixels of 8k, at 60fps nonetheless, aka got enough oomph for that and we do better have image quality even on 4k screen vs standard native 4k rendering, hell we do have better IQ even compared to xbox series x 6k60 :>
Think of it as famous greenberg stupid quote that all the games outputs in 1080p https://n4g.com/news/1385546/aaron-greenberg-you-will-see-every-game-as-1080p
Internal resolution maters, not output resolution, otherwise back then in early xbox one times call of duty ghosts running internally at 720p and outputting in 1080p would be ok- but it wasnt, obviously and greenberg got called out on it
01011001
Banned
it can technically, and it is promoted on the box that it can... but Sony just doesn't add that output resolution
most likely because all the affordable 8K TVs on the market are Samsung and LG, while their cheapest 8K tv is still like 3000€.Sony always limits their consoles on purposes to help their TV division's products look like a good fit.
and they can't patch in 8K and then have a compatible TV that's 3x as expensive as their competitor's TVs.
just like they couldn't allow VRR as long as their TVs had spotty compatibility... or how they don't support Freesnyc because their TVs don't support Freesync.
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Doctor Hades
Member
The PS5 has to drop sub-1080p to upscale some games to 4K and most PS5 games run at 1440p or thereabouts, upscaled to 4K so Sony advertising 8K on the PS5 box was a huge mistake in my opinion. 3 years after release the console still doesn't support 8K output. I am surprised they haven't had law suits slapped on them left, right and centre at this point for false advertising, especially in the US.
Yes, the PS5 has one game that downsamples from 8K to native 4K (The Touryst) but it is a graphically simplistic game with small levels. Indie developers could do 2D and simple 3D games of this type at native 8K on PS5 but, honestly, what would be the point? The userbase with 8K TVs is extremely small and likely will continue to be until manufacturers drop 4K altogether and force 8K as a standard. I would rather developers focused on maximising the potential of the current hardware, prioritising 60 fps and 1440p if need be, rather than pushing 8K just to so they can claim they have an 8K game in their portfolio.
If there is a PS5 Pro, and I really hope there isn't given how few current-gen games we have now 3 years into the life of the PS5, then I expect it will include 8K support for the 5 or 6 people that can use it to watch 8K YouTube videos!
Yes, the PS5 has one game that downsamples from 8K to native 4K (The Touryst) but it is a graphically simplistic game with small levels. Indie developers could do 2D and simple 3D games of this type at native 8K on PS5 but, honestly, what would be the point? The userbase with 8K TVs is extremely small and likely will continue to be until manufacturers drop 4K altogether and force 8K as a standard. I would rather developers focused on maximising the potential of the current hardware, prioritising 60 fps and 1440p if need be, rather than pushing 8K just to so they can claim they have an 8K game in their portfolio.
If there is a PS5 Pro, and I really hope there isn't given how few current-gen games we have now 3 years into the life of the PS5, then I expect it will include 8K support for the 5 or 6 people that can use it to watch 8K YouTube videos!
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Tarnpanzer
Member
it can technically, and it is promoted on the box that it can... but Sony just doesn't add that output resolution
Since the PS5 is limited to 32Gbps the max would be 8K/30, so it cannot do 60fps anyway.
Point is: Even if the PS5 wants to, it can not give out native 8K/60fps for this game since u need at least 40Gbps for 4:2:0 which will come with a lot of banding anyway.
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01011001
Banned
Since the PS5 is limited to 32Gbps the max would be 8K/30, so it cannot do 60fps anyway.
Point is: Even if the PS5 wants to, it can not give out native 8K/60fps for this game since u need at least 40Gbps for 4:2:0 which will come with a lot of banding anyway.
it is assumed that the 32gb/s is a software induced limitation not a hardware limitation.
edit: googling a bit also makes it sound like this is confirmed by Sony to be a software limitation.
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Tarnpanzer
Member
But why?
With this limitation you can not go with 4K/120 4:4:4 if you want to use HDR. This limitation makes no sense.
01011001
Banned
to be fair, 4:4:4 is only really important on PC with small text having fringing artifacts, not really that much of a difference on a console during typical gameplay
Whitecrow
Banned
That's the theory. In practice, it makes a hugh impact on sharpness in games too.
01011001
Banned
it can't make a difference in sharpness, only in color accuracy. also which game do you know that renders at 4k120? the system will have to scale up the image anyway, meaning the colors on screen will be doubled way more obviously due to the low render resolution, rather than due to the 4:2:2 color
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Whitecrow
Banned
And do you think color resolution doesnt translate to sharpness? Because it absolutely does.
You might want to test it if you have a TV and see for yourself.
01011001
Banned
reduced color resolution is very rarely noticeable in typical gameplay scenarios. you need very specific scenarios to notice, where 2 pixels that are right next to eachother have the exact same luminance value but a radically different chroma value. that's not something that happens all too often. it does happen with fine text, hence it being important when using a PC, but in a typical gameplay image it's way less often that it would stick out.
edit: Also, again... no game actually runs at 4K120fps, so the game image will be upscaled anyway , which will naturally result in double wide pixels that have the same luminance value anyways.
at worst it becomes an issue when using 120hz VRR quality modes
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Whitecrow
Banned
It's not rarely noticeable, it's always very noticeable. Everyone who can test it on a TV switching back and forth between 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 will tell you this,
You can keep speaking theory all you want, you are not right there bud.
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01011001
Banned
yeah, who am I posting objective facts, when you can bring up unproven subjective arguments
sorry, but 4:2:2 in a normal gameplay image is barely noticeable
Whitecrow
Banned
Which facts are you talking about exactly? Those who you didnt seem to have any interest on proving?yeah, who am I posting objective facts, when you can bring up unproven subjective arguments
sorry, but 4:2:2 in a normal gameplay image is barely noticeable
This not being a sharpness night and day difference maybe?
You might not notice it on very contrasted edges, where the luma change makes an actual difference, but when not, difference is night and day.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
You are focusing on text which has already been agreed to be the key issue with chrome subsampling. So yeah, a problem for games with massive amount of text you see up close (bit of an extreme example too as it is taking bright red and blue which cause issues even at full chroma depth), but not for many others…Which facts are you talking about exactly? Those who you didnt seem to have any interest on proving?
This not being a sharpness night and day difference maybe?
The 422 chroma it's no better than upscaling from HALF of the horizontal resolution, which is a lot.
You might not notice it on very contrasted edges, where the luma change makes an actual difference, but when not, difference is night and day.
Whitecrow
Banned
And what differentiates text from 2 objects of different color next to each other in a 3D scene?
If text cannot be rendered well, it means TV cant make a good transition between certain colors, and that goes for everything on the image, not just pixels arranged in letter forms.
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01011001
Banned
Which facts are you talking about exactly? Those who you didnt seem to have any interest on proving?
This not being a sharpness night and day difference maybe?
The 422 chroma it's no better than upscaling from HALF of the horizontal resolution, which is a lot.
You might not notice it on very contrasted edges, where the luma change makes an actual difference, but when not, difference is night and day.
you are literally showing one of the said extreme situations that I'm talking about. in 99% of images you will barely see a difference, and the difference you will see is mostly color inaccuracies and not an obvious drop in definition.
the image you're showing is displaying 2 colors with the same luminance and an extreme chroma difference, this simply doesn't happen in a natural looking image like when looking at the game world in a typical game.
extreme scenarios like in that image are almost entirely limited to PC usage, where fine text edges are very common.
Tarnpanzer
Member
To my understanding, the PS5/SX will always give out a 4k/120 signal, regardless of the rendering resolution of the game, since the upscaling is done by the console, not the TV.
01011001
Banned
that's not the point tho... if a game renders at 1080p, then every pixel needs to be doubled when scaled up, and if your pixel is doubled a 4:2:2 chroma resolution will be indistinguishable from 4:4:4
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mitchman
Gold Member
UHD Blu-ray uses 4:2:0 and it makes no difference in movies that is arguably sharper and has higher quality footage than games.
Whitecrow
Banned
Yeah sure. Get your vision checked.
ThisIsMyDog
Member
TrebleShot
Member
News will drop shortly after the ABK deal is confirmed, pretty sure they’ve been in a holding state until then.
Rocco Schiavone
Member
this Tommy Boy.
SkyHighTrees
Member
This is fake fr, just false alarm
PeteBull
Member
Expect some hard leaks eaerliest in a year;DWhere's the PRO console info ffs.
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Romulus
Member
So is this supposed to happen or were the leakers proven to be a bust?
Having said that I'm still waiting for that one game that justifies ps5/xsx generation. It's a joke so far. Feels like I've been playing 60fps ps4 games. Pretty sad it's even an argument. Last generation Infamous and Shadow Fall were CLEAR leaps in fidelity. There was zero argument. Guess those days are over.
And to be fair the ps4 generation wasn't an incredibly huge leap, but it feels like some technological enlightenment compared to the ps5 jump.
Having said that I'm still waiting for that one game that justifies ps5/xsx generation. It's a joke so far. Feels like I've been playing 60fps ps4 games. Pretty sad it's even an argument. Last generation Infamous and Shadow Fall were CLEAR leaps in fidelity. There was zero argument. Guess those days are over.
And to be fair the ps4 generation wasn't an incredibly huge leap, but it feels like some technological enlightenment compared to the ps5 jump.
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Loxus
Member
I don't know about Tom, but I have a feeling Kepler knows something.
He's know for leaking GPU/CPU stuff.
I'm wondering if he's hinting at the PS5 Pro codename being Viola?
TheRedRiders
Member
Crispy Gamer
Member
Hope it's based on RDNA4
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Seems like next-gen GDDR7 is almost here
www.tomshardware.com
GDDR7 Arrives: Samsung Outs World's First Chip, 32 GT/s for Next-Gen GPUs
Samsung's GDDR7 promises a 20% improvement of power efficiency over GDDR6 .
Whitecrow
Banned
I fear dying before DDR20Seems like next-gen GDDR7 is almost here
GDDR7 Arrives: Samsung Outs World's First Chip, 32 GT/s for Next-Gen GPUs
Samsung's GDDR7 promises a 20% improvement of power efficiency over GDDR6 .
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Just to provide some context, the current GDDR6 memory chips in the PS5 are rated for 14 GT/s, so these new GDDR7 32 MT/s modules are quite hefty improvement over that and it will easily solve any possible memory bandwidth if not for the PS5 Pro then for the PS6 (by then we'll have even faster GDDR7 modules).Seems like next-gen GDDR7 is almost here
GDDR7 Arrives: Samsung Outs World's First Chip, 32 GT/s for Next-Gen GPUs
Samsung's GDDR7 promises a 20% improvement of power efficiency over GDDR6 .
They can even reduce the memory bus interface from the current 256bits to 192bits and still be fine if the memory config allows in order to make some BOM savings.
All in all there's some very exciting possibilities if Sony play their cards right.
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PeteBull
Member
That new superfast vram wont be put into ps5pr0 guys, its big jump in cost and ps5pr0 has to be at most 800$ msrp.
Most of the budget increase vs 500$ ps5 base will go into much stronger/newer gpu.
By the time ps6 launches( so2028-2030) its very likely we gonna get gddr7 but back then it wont be that expensive anymore ;D
And to those ppl who are sure of ps5pr0 not happening- u are free to have ur opinion ofc
Most of the budget increase vs 500$ ps5 base will go into much stronger/newer gpu.
By the time ps6 launches( so2028-2030) its very likely we gonna get gddr7 but back then it wont be that expensive anymore ;D
And to those ppl who are sure of ps5pr0 not happening- u are free to have ur opinion ofc
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
From the same article I've linked:
"Our GDDR7 DRAM will help elevate user experiences in areas that require outstanding graphic performance, such as workstations, PCs and game consoles, and is expected to expand into future applications such as AI, high-performance computing (HPC) and automotive vehicles," said Yongcheol Bae, Executive Vice President of Memory Product Planning Team at Samsung Electronics. "The next-generation graphics DRAM will be brought to market in line with industry demand and we plan on continuing our leadership in the space."
"Our GDDR7 DRAM will help elevate user experiences in areas that require outstanding graphic performance, such as workstations, PCs and game consoles, and is expected to expand into future applications such as AI, high-performance computing (HPC) and automotive vehicles," said Yongcheol Bae, Executive Vice President of Memory Product Planning Team at Samsung Electronics. "The next-generation graphics DRAM will be brought to market in line with industry demand and we plan on continuing our leadership in the space."
Rocco Schiavone
Member
Maybe for PS6 but definitely not for the PS5 Pro.Seems like next-gen GDDR7 is almost here
GDDR7 Arrives: Samsung Outs World's First Chip, 32 GT/s for Next-Gen GPUs
Samsung's GDDR7 promises a 20% improvement of power efficiency over GDDR6 .
HeisenbergFX4
Member
Loxus
Member
Depends.
If PS6 is GPU chiplet based (meaning two or more gpu on the same package) HBM would be the better bet.
An interposer is used for multiple chiplets, so adding HBM shouldn't be a problem.
Pasta la Vista
Member
Yup.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
TBF Heinsenberg, as much as I enjoy a good console rumour discussion, I'm gonna a need a solid receipt to believe a PS5 Pro is imminent (~ 12 months away).
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