Support NeoGAF

[RPGCrazied]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/...ted-armed-protest-oregon-160103081113265.html

Some of these tweets, I said god damn. I agree with many of those though.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Funny you say that when the group has threatened violence if the government tries to interfere.

But they're white so they can do that.

I'm done with this shit.

They aren't just threatening violence. They're armed. This is not a group of protestors who don't have guns and can be controlled with limited risk to law enforcement. Post-Waco the Feds tend not to blow these idiots away, they prefer to diffuse it with the least amount of risk to their officers.

 

[Lucreto]

Time for an old fashion seige.

1. Surround the place with bullet resistant barriers.
2. Set up signal blockers to stop WiFi and cell phone communication
3. Cut phone, electrical and water supplies
4. Wait a few days and the smell of 150 people in an enclosed space will get them to surrender rather quickly.

 

[FartOfWar]

Why do people keep saying this shit, when the government has changed their approach to this type of domestic terrorism since Waco. They want a complete minimalization of potential violence, and they're dealing with heavily armed delusional people. It's not comparable to whatever you're trying to compare it to.

Maybe the lesson here is that more people should exercise their second amendment rights during protests.

You see after waco and ruby ridge the feds became racist and decided to change their playbook when provacateurs are white. Its because theyre white or didnt you read? Up until this millennium the feds werent racist and shot up all these loons but now the feds became racist and stopped doing that because white. I came to post that theyre white.

 

[Gattsu25]

Talking about them as terrorists not only ramp up the rhetoric to heated levels, it allow the government to take some rather extreme actions against them, actions that I'm not sure are warranted by the level of risk the pose.

They should stop taking actions that fit the definition of terrorism then.

You see after waco and ruby ridge the feds became racist and decided to change their playbook when provacateurs are white. Its because theyre white or didnt you read? Up until this millennium the feds werent racist and shot up all these loons but now the feds became racist and stopped doing that because white. I came to post that theyre white.

You're starting to sound like one of those people that unironically agrees with the propaganda in Bioshock Infinite 😞

 

[RustyNails]

Both work. LOL

Thank you!

 

[M52B28]

Talking about them as terrorists not only ramp up the rhetoric to heated levels, it allow the government to take some rather extreme actions against them, actions that I'm not sure are warranted by the level of risk the pose.

So we can't use a JDAM to clear them out?

 

[HylianTom]

Hmm. Let's see how this ends for Y'all Qaeda.

Siege 'em out.

 

[The Wall]

Someone forgot to give them the "Fallout's not real" memo.

 

[Malleymal]

So if any org gets together with guns and takes over a building,,, it's cool, let's just sit and wait for their peaceful protest to run its course. They will become hungry and look foolish when they leave. I've watched people get assaulted/killed for much less.

So the Blm group needs guns and all and they will be ok to protest... Got it

 

[RPGCrazied]

So if any org gets together with guns and takes over a building,,, it's cool

Apparently if you are white its cool. If they were of a different race, this probably would be going a totally different way.

 

[mechashiva]

Who's supplying the s'mores schnapps?

 

[ivysaur12]

I'm done with this shit.

They aren't just threatening violence. They're armed. This is not a group of protestors who don't have guns and can be controlled with limited risk to law enforcement. Post-Waco the Feds tend not to blow these idiots away, they prefer to diffuse it with the least amount of risk to their officers.

The situation is different than some of the analogies that some are making, but this isn't true at all.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...lled-occupy-us-wildlife-reserve-a6794366.html

Their leader has reportedly informed local press that the men are planning to stay in the refuge indefinitely and are “willing to kill or be killed” to do so.

 

[bengraven]

Isn't there another group of extremists that have been "taking over" some land for years now, but the government doesn't want to end up doing another Waco so it's basically just one long standoff that doesn't get any media coverage?

 

[Foffy]

So, all of this is over two people who the community kinda finds innocent considering the degree they'll be punished, protested, but then people went a bit crazy with gun culture and started escalating the issue?

Am I missing something?

 

[Trokil]

Hey Obama, wouldn't it be fun the let a Predator drone fly close by, just for shits and giggles.

 

[Foffy]

So for a very simple summary:

Two guys commit massive arson on federal lands to cover up evidence of illegal hunting.

They serve a short sentence, which a judge now says was indeed too short, so they're going back in. Which they are willingly doing.

A bunch of unrelated dopes looking for trouble occupy an empty federal wildlife preserve building to protest the prosecution of arsonists.

The arsonists themselves want fuck all to do with this and they're turning themselves in on the scheduled date.

White people.

..Why? Like, why get involved? I understood people did protest the longer punishment, and the two dudes appreciated their protests, but didn't ask for that to be done.

Then muh gun guys come in and make this an issue about..what, exactly?

 

[Opto]

I can't imagine they have enough supplies to last more than a week. Wait em out

 

[Slayven]

Maybe they need to burn a CVS

 

[.Q.]

Can't they just pump some sleeping gas through the vents and let them wake up in a jail cell?

 

[Jonm1010]

..Why? Like, why get involved? I understood people did protest the longer punishment, and the two dudes appreciated their protests, but didn't ask for that to be done.

Then muh gun guys come in and make this an issue about..what, exactly?

They're a bunch of fucking idiots. Literally. Literally in that they do not understand the law, history, territorial rights or really anything pertaining to their cause. Which leads them to a idiotic position that the federal land in the U.S. does not belong to the federal government, that they don't believe the federal government has a right to exist, don't recognize it but are quick to use many of its protections when convenient. Just not when it requires them to stop doing illegal activities. Illegal activities that the state would likely enforce if they weren't under federal authority.

So in their mind arson, illegal hunting and whatever else that is done on land the federal government purchased years back - and has remained in control of since - is completely fine because the federal government doesn't own the land....because they say so. Even though, again, the state would likely punish the same sort of activities if it were in charge. They claim some sort of heriditorial rights to the land even though they have no claim. But if we were to go this route to determine ownership it certainly wouldn't be fucking Cliven Bundy or some other white settler that took the land from the indigenous people.

 

[Slayven]

Yet BLM is called a racebaiting anti american group.

 

[FyreWulff]

..Why? Like, why get involved? I understood people did protest the longer punishment, and the two dudes appreciated their protests, but didn't ask for that to be done.

Then muh gun guys come in and make this an issue about..what, exactly?

The assholes doing this literally believe that the US Government doesn't exist/isn't legitimate and that Oregon or Nevada's state government is the only legal government entity.

They also do other stupid shit like believe that Sheriffs are the highest authority of the land, hence their idiotic press release where they ask the two ranches to go get themselves in protective custody via the sheriff.

spoiler:

Spoiler

Not that it matters anyway, but Nevada's state constitution that they quote all the time, where the Bundy's are based, explicitly says that it recognizes the US federal government

 

[Slayven]

The assholes doing this literally believe that the US Government doesn't exist and that Oregon or Nevada's state government is the only legal government entity.

They also do other stupid shit like believe that Sheriffs are the highest authority of the land, hence their idiotic press release where they ask the two ranches to go get themselves in protective custody via the sheriff.

The unusual folks that will used state and federal shit, but grumble about paying taxes.

 

[HeySeuss]

So for a very simple summary:

Two guys commit massive arson on federal lands to cover up evidence of illegal hunting.

They serve a short sentence, which a judge now says was indeed too short, so they're going back in. Which they are willingly doing.

A bunch of unrelated dopes looking for trouble occupy an empty federal wildlife preserve building to protest the prosecution of arsonists.

The arsonists themselves want fuck all to do with this and they're turning themselves in on the scheduled date.

White people.

How accurate is this? The first half part about the illegal hunting and the part about a judge extending the sentence after they served their time already?

But for everyone else wondering why they haven't stormed the building yet, it's because there's no need to. It isn't an active shooter and people's lives aren't in danger. Waiting them out and establishing a line of communication is how these situations are handled. Now if they start shooting at the officers outside, then it's game on.

 

[Alavard]

How accurate is this? The first half part about the illegal hunting and the part about a judge extending the sentence after they served their time already?

But for everyone else wondering why they haven't stormed the building yet, it's because there's no need to. It isn't an active shooter and people's lives aren't in danger. Waiting them out and establishing a line of communication is how these situations are handled. Now if they start shooting at the officers outside, then it's game on.

The original time they served was below the mandatory minimum. That's why the second judge extended the time.

 

[Jonm1010]

How accurate is this? The first half part about the illegal hunting and the part about a judge extending the sentence after they served their time already?

But for everyone else wondering why they haven't stormed the building yet, it's because there's no need to. It isn't an active shooter and people's lives aren't in danger. Waiting them out and establishing a line of communication is how these situations are handled. Now if they start shooting at the officers outside, then it's game on.

I think on a technical level the initial judge bought the defendants argument that the sentence was unconstitutional in that it was too harsh a sentence. So the judge reduced it below the mandatory minimum.

It was subsequently appealed or something and the judge then determined the sentencing is constitutional, a change to the previous ruling, and since they didn't serve the mandatory minimum the guilty party must serve the remaining gap to fulfil the punishment.

 

[Herbs]

Maybe they need to burn a CVS

lol

 

[astroturfing]

So for a very simple summary:

Two guys commit massive arson on federal lands to cover up evidence of illegal hunting.

They serve a short sentence, which a judge now says was indeed too short, so they're going back in. Which they are willingly doing.

A bunch of unrelated dopes looking for trouble occupy an empty federal wildlife preserve building to protest the prosecution of arsonists.

The arsonists themselves want fuck all to do with this and they're turning themselves in on the scheduled date.

White people.

"White people."? wtf.. was that really necessary to add?? comes off racist as fuck, how is this allowed here?

fucking retarded generalization. all i know are white people and NOT ONE of them even own guns or would EVER do anything like this. jesus.

 

[KurtSloane]

So for a very simple summary:

Two guys commit massive arson on federal lands to cover up evidence of illegal hunting.

They serve a short sentence, which a judge now says was indeed too short, so they're going back in. Which they are willingly doing.

A bunch of unrelated dopes looking for trouble occupy an empty federal wildlife preserve building to protest the prosecution of arsonists.

The arsonists themselves want fuck all to do with this and they're turning themselves in on the scheduled date.

White people.

Why make this racial?

Would it be acceptable on this forum for an event to take place within a black community or by members of the black community and for posters to come on here and write a post ended with "black people"?


I would assume, and rightfully so you would be banned for racial stereotyping / profiling.

I would be keen to see the same action take place in this instance also.

 

[mellz]

Why make this racial?

Would it be acceptable on this forum for an event to take place within a black community or by members of the black community and for posters to come on here and write a post ended with "black people"?


I would assume, and rightfully so you would be banned for racial stereotyping / profiling.

I would be keen to see the same action take place in this instance also.

White people...

Spoiler

I'm white

 

[skynidas]

So for a very simple summary:

Two guys commit massive arson on federal lands to cover up evidence of illegal hunting.

They serve a short sentence, which a judge now says was indeed too short, so they're going back in. Which they are willingly doing.

A bunch of unrelated dopes looking for trouble occupy an empty federal wildlife preserve building to protest the prosecution of arsonists.

The arsonists themselves want fuck all to do with this and they're turning themselves in on the scheduled date.

White people.

white people? wtf

 

[jstripes]

It's not actually clear how many are militia and how many are just protestors, or how well armed they are. The place was closed when they seized it and it led from a large protest. There's some evidence they have Idaho Militia with them, but no one is clear on how many and what the mix is. Of course they're all trespassing on federal property, but they'll try to talk out as many as they can.

Pretend for a second you know nothing about the US.

It sounds like we're talking about tribal militias in Afghanistan or something.

 

[KurtSloane]

White people...

Spoiler

I'm white

And? What is your point exactly?

 

[Sianos]

If this was non white protesters armed and taking over a government building people would be losing their shit.

People lose their shit over unarmed protests these days: they wouldn't just ask the [Non-White] Leaders to condemn those people, they would require a signed condemnation letter from every non-white person in America. And still say they weren't doing enough to condemn the insurgents.

Speaking of the White Leaders, going to need them to condemn this just to be safe.

And speaking of pithy comments, normally I'd snark about "political correctness gone mad" in relation to the "outrage culture" surrounding the flippant expression of "white people", but if you're consistent about condemning generalizations towards groups that are marginalized as well as white people then legitimately good on you for being a good person. Generalizations are indeed bad: just don't pull a #notallmen when it's convenient then turn around and generalize everyone who is marginalized, as some in my family are wont to do.

 

[Slayven]

People lose their shit over unarmed protests these days: they wouldn't just ask the [Non-White] Leaders to condemn those people, they would require a signed condemnation letter from every non-white person in America. And still say they weren't doing enough to condemn the insurgents.

Speaking of the White Leaders, going to need them to condemn this just to be safe.

And speaking of pithy comments, normally I'd snark about "political correctness gone mad" in relation to the "outrage culture" surrounding the flippant expression of "white people", but if you're consistent about condemning generalizations towards groups that are marginalized as well as white people then legitimately good on you for being a good person. Generalizations are indeed bad: just don't pull a #notallmen when it's convenient then turn around and generalize everyone who is marginalized, as some in my family are wont to do.

Exactly, people will be saying "Where are nonwhite fathers?" or "The nonwhite community if fundamentally broken". If they want to be fair and balance, be fair and balance.

 

[Ponn]

Why make this racial?

Would it be acceptable on this forum for an event to take place within a black community or by members of the black community and for posters to come on here and write a post ended with "black people"?


I would assume, and rightfully so you would be banned for racial stereotyping / profiling.

I would be keen to see the same action take place in this instance also.

I mean, the disconnect is blatantly obvious.

Black people worry about playing with toy guns in walmart and getting shot for it.

White people can slaughter deer, set a hundred acre fire to cover it up while endangering thousands of lives and other people homes with a wildfire. Then complain about their OWN shit while wholly disregarding others and then armed take over a government compound and threaten violence.

You don't find it at all strange the leniency given to one particular group?

 

[KurtSloane]

I mean, the disconnect is blatantly obvious.

Black people worry about playing with toy guns in walmart and getting shot for it.

White people can slaughter deer, set a hundred acre fire to cover it up while endangering thousands of lives and other people homes with a wildfire. Then complain about their OWN shit while wholly disregarding others and then armed take over a government compound and threaten violence.

You don't find it at all strange the leniency given to one particular group?

I never commented on the differences in treatment, that is glaringly obvious.

I am asking why a poster is allowed to use generalising language? Language that is racial in nature.

 

[Slayven]

I mean, the disconnect is blatantly obvious.

Black people worry about playing with toy guns in walmart and getting shot for it.

White people can slaughter deer, set a hundred acre fire to cover it up while endangering thousands of lives and other people homes with a wildfire. Then complain about their OWN shit while wholly disregarding others and then armed take over a government compound and threaten violence.

You don't find it at all strange the leniency given to one particular group?

Meanwhile protesting on public property

 

[besada]

Pretend for a second you know nothing about the US.

It sounds like we're talking about tribal militias in Afghanistan or something.

Not too far off.

The U.S. has a number of anti-government groups who organize themselves as militias. They own firearms, and often train together, preparing for the day they have to fight the jackbooted thugs in the government. They tend to be a mix of survivalists, anti-government agitators, "sovereign citizens", racists, and anti-tax advocates.

Idaho has two active, known militia groups, although I'm not sure which one is participating in this particular action.

 

[Jonm1010]

I mean, the disconnect is blatantly obvious.

Black people worry about playing with toy guns in walmart and getting shot for it.

White people can slaughter deer, set a hundred acre fire to cover it up while endangering thousands of lives and other people homes with a wildfire. Then complain about their OWN shit while wholly disregarding others and then armed take over a government compound and threaten violence.

You don't find it at all strange the leniency given to one particular group?

White people certainly enjoy institutional and systemic biases that afford them leniencies that minority groups do not, but I am not sure what that has to do with a person bookending a post that was summarizing and also berating the occupiers with "white people."

At best it was completely unnecessary and a poor attempt at humor. At worse it was as some people inferred, generalizing and racially charged.

 

[Sushi Nao]

Let's be clear, they're not just white people.

They're down-home, flannel-wearing, tractor-driving, god-fearing, country-music-loving, cow-milking white people.

The kind massive amounts of the country identify with. It's a precarious situation because any death or injury the government perpetrates against these men will create an instant right-wing media martyr that you'll hear about for the next 15 years.

Spoiler

For those surprised about all the "white people" posters, you cannot be surprised that a huge segment of the US population is terrified of non-whites, especially lately, and policy often reflects public opinion.

 

[mellz]

I never commented on the differences in treatment, that is glaringly obvious.

I am asking why a poster is allowed to use generalising language? Language that is racial in nature.

because context

 

[KurtSloane]

Meanwhile protesting on public property

Well you are rightly pointing out issues within the US with regards to differences in the treatment of citizens based on race.


I am raising a point about the forum and the use of racial language with a view to make a generalised point / insult.

This forum is not America, I don't think it's TOS is supposed to adhere to differing standards based upon racial background / direction of the intended point, therefore infering generalisations around colour is unacceptable no matter the race you are directing it at or the race you are from.

 

[DrForester]

Meanwhile protesting on public property

Someone needs to call in a "tip" to Oregon Law Enforcement and report some unarmed black people in the building. That will get the guard called up.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

When is the white leadership going to speak out against these animals?

Word. We need the White community to take some responsibility....

They're white

Yup. White people cant be terrorists. They're just mentally ill. :/

 

[besada]

I never commented on the differences in treatment, that is glaringly obvious.

I am asking why a poster is allowed to use generalising language? Language that is racial in nature.

Next time you have questions about moderation, PM a mod, rather than derailing by asking questions users can't answer.

 

[bchamba]

Why make this racial?

Would it be acceptable on this forum for an event to take place within a black community or by members of the black community and for posters to come on here and write a post ended with "black people"?


I would assume, and rightfully so you would be banned for racial stereotyping / profiling.

I would be keen to see the same action take place in this instance also.

Double standards, reverse racism, the plight of the white man

 

[KurtSloane]

Next time you have questions about moderation, PM a mod, rather than derailing by asking questions users can't answer.

Apologies.

 

[Ponn]

White people certainly enjoy institutional and systemic biases that afford them leniencies that minority groups do not, but I am not sure what that has to do with a person bookending a post that was summarizing and also berating the occupiers with "white people."

At best it was completely unnecessary and a poor attempt at humor. At worse it was as some people inferred, generalizing and racially charged.

Because its true. Why does it make people uncomfortable to have it pointed out? Why try and sweep it under the rug and then act surprised later when you see Fox reporting Racism in America is over or "why do you keep using the race card?" When is the appropriate time to express these things or point them out?