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F/911 having devastating effects on morale overseas.....
- Thread starter The Promised One
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Makura said:
LOL you are about the hundredth person to bring up that "deciets" article. Did you actually read it? It grudgingly agrees with Moore on half of the points and uses half-truths and long winded reasonings to dispute the other half. Its terrible. As for the 9-11 commission report, it actually supports everything that is in F/911...LOL
Point precisely where there is a falisification in the movie. Don't just point to articles...argue the facts.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Is there NO middle-ground between "not for profit" and "capitalist pig"? Was it the same way for his less popular works between Roger & Me and Stupid White Men, like The Big One which grossed under a million dollars at the US box office? Isn't a job that's true to what we believe in and profitable something we'd all like?HAOHMARU said:
Seems like a fair turnaround, since he supposedly sold his house to help fund Roger & Me.RedDwarf said:
videogamer
Banned
The Promised One said:
You've been in enough threads here that you should have noticed that people tend to not to agree with you here. I don't know about the 20-1 proportion; I didn't count the number of posters here arguing against you. Anyways, haven't you noticed that you tend to get outnumbered in these discussions? By now you should have expected this response.
i guess someone else will have to quote this for you to read it then, but if you had a memory or any kind of coherence you might remember the last 300 of these threads where i tried to reason with people like, you, specifically, and ended up with nothing but a headache. hence, i've given up and now just sit on the sidelines and laugh or groan or whatever suits my fancy. occasionally, like a couple hours ago, i ask an honest question ("do you know what a circular argument is?" because you didn't use the term in any manner nearing coherence) and someone (i don't know, you) is insulted by the question because the application of reason usually implies that people like you, specifically, are being stupid, and i guess you're in denial or something.Fusebox said:
anyways, i'm getting pretty tired of this "you contribute nothing to the forum" crap, especially when i'm pointing out how baseless and irrational your attack on another poster was.
3rdman said:
Well, it's the most exhaustive resource - I'm not surprised it's posted often. I read it, And no, half the points do not agree with Moore's portrayal of the situation, he only concedes that Moore makes a good case that some of the facts are disputable on 2-3 of the issues.
Makura said:
It's also an interminable screed with bullet points, because, God dammit, Republicans seem to love bullet points.
I've read it. No, I'll be frank, I skimmed it. It had all the markings of someone who's basing these calls of dishonesty on what he's been told about the movie. If there's evidence pointing to him actually seeing it, or even humoring Moore's claims that the facts have been checked thoroughly, then I either missed it or it's buried in some fine print.
Bizarro Sun Yat-sen
Banned
those Cox & Forkum cartoons are so vile. it's amazing how much hatred and nastiness comes through just in the art style, never mind the content.
I read the first half of it word-for-word just now. Many of his points seem to be taking Moore's facetious comments as literal truths (which is somewhat ironic, since the author complains that Moore does the same with facetious comments of Bush's), such as Or perhaps he just should have read the security briefing that was given to him on August 6, 2001 that said that Osama bin Laden was planning to attack America by hijacking airplanes. I don't think Moore actually intended to insinuate the Bush literally did not read the report; his remark is no different than similiar sarcastic remarks nearly all of us make every day of our lives ("Maybe you should've learned how to drive before you got in the car, jackass!" "Maybe you should've known that leaving the milk out would spoil it!" etc.). There are also points that are "refuted" by legitimate sources, but counter-refuted by Moore's citing of other sources. In cases like these, it becomes nearly impossible to determine for certain who is "correct".Makura said:
There are some interesting facts cited in there that do prove Moore wrong on some counts, but 1.) I don't hold anyone to a standard of absolute perfection and won't begin with Michael Moore and his movie, and 2.) in my eyes, Moore's main points (the ties with Saudi companies, the vacation time [the author refutes this with itineraries posted from WhiteHouse.gov...cough], etc.) still remain valid.
Drinky Crow
Banned
Dave Kopel gets a smackin': http://anton-sirius.dailykos.com/story/2004/7/6/1942/00222
I haven't ignored the logical counterpoints. Was there anything else you wanted me to discuss? I tried to get them all, but I can't defend against everything. I mean, I'm pretty much done arguing...but if you think I am leaving something hanging, let me know.
I just thought it was funny that some people resort to name calling when they can't make their point.
I just thought it was funny that some people resort to name calling when they can't make their point.
"Is there NO middle-ground between "not for profit" and "capitalist pig"?"HAOHMARU said:
"It wasn't long ago that some people figured F 9/11 wouldn't even make that much, and I doubt anyone reasonably expected it to hit the $30 million mark. But now that it's not only hit that mark but oblierated it, suddenly the money factor is some sort of big issue. That seems a little too conveniant for my liking."
"the other idiot is trying to proove that a guy who doesn't even care if his movie is gonna be pirated as long as people watch it, and gives most of the profits to charity is just a greedy movie maker."
As others have asked, how can someone who really has no idea where the film's grosses are going accuse Moore of being a money-obsessed fatcat? Is anyone that turns any kind of a profit a "capitalist pig"?
Drinky Crow
Banned
How is he whiny? By publically offering his opinion and courageously exercising his right to free speech? What's next: Gandhi was a pussy? Jesus was a communist?
Apparently, the greatest crime you can commit against "America" is to fuck with the nation's fat lethargic sense of security and make its residents question their lazy assumptions.
Apparently, the greatest crime you can commit against "America" is to fuck with the nation's fat lethargic sense of security and make its residents question their lazy assumptions.
DonasaurusRex
Online Ho Champ
I havent seen F 9/11 yet but i dont care, its freedom of speech he can offend people that sucks that soldiers are taking it that way but oh well he has the right to do so.
Drinky Crow
Banned
No, I'm saying it could only be considered a "whiny" picture if someone airing their completely valid complaints with the current administration makes you uncomfortable.
Drinky Crow
Banned
And Kopel hardly debunks Moore, so we're back to ground zero: Moore demonstrates a compelling and well-argued perspective on this incompetent administration.
MrAngryFace
Banned
nationalism is stupid. All those dumb jerks that cut me off on the road in their stupid suvs and trucks with those obnoxious american flag bumper/window stickers need to go to iraq and fight since they wanna.
I dont mind supporting troops since they are already over there, hell, ill even agree something needs to be done over there. However im not sure we should be doing it, or worse, lied to in an attempt to get us to do it.
WMDs my asssss. Just tell me all the crap stuff saddam did and thats plenty.
bring our troops back, they wanna go all apecrap and fight over there thats their choice.
I dont mind supporting troops since they are already over there, hell, ill even agree something needs to be done over there. However im not sure we should be doing it, or worse, lied to in an attempt to get us to do it.
WMDs my asssss. Just tell me all the crap stuff saddam did and thats plenty.
bring our troops back, they wanna go all apecrap and fight over there thats their choice.
CoryCubed said:
You do realize this sounds like a whine, right?
3rdman said:
Hell, I'm still waiting for people to explain why Saddam never used any WMD's last year if he had so many of them. Was asking that question a couple times a week some 15 months ago, and I'm still waiting for a half decent response.
The Promised One
Banned
3rdman said:
I posted some links on page 3. (or was it 2)
The Promised One said:
You posted Dave Kopel's site, which has been refuted, two others that offer nothing new, and an article by Christopher Hitchens, the man who can't find something nice to say about Mother Theresa, nevermind a filmmaker who most likely doesn't agree with his political point of view.
The whole "Moore's a liar!" meme got started when some people too stupid to see the point of "Bowling for Columbine" got wrapped up in Moore's editing of Charlton Heston's various speeches around the country, as if what the man says at any given event varies that much.
The *point* was that despite Columbine, he showed up, gave a big ol' speech about how owning a gun is a right, and didn't stop to think for a moment that maybe, just maybe, the time and the place was no longer that appropriate. He claims, when questioned on the issue, that they had "contractual obligations" to stay in the city. That flies about as far as I can throw the man.
It's kind of like holding an airline security conference in Manhattan, claiming everything's peachy-keen, a week after 9/11.
The Promised One
Banned
Zaptruder said:
Sorry, but I read the so called "refutations" and they're pathetic. Sorry.
Anyway guys, I have better things to do.
Mike Works
Member
I think that about sums it up gentlemen.
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