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FACT: Media ruins videogames

I truly believe that somewhere, in the webs of hype, game press and enthusiasm can completely ruin a gaming experience. Wether by deceit, over-hyping, the fact that some advertisers inforce a demographic on the game, or even the previews, reviews we often read, even strict breakdown of a game's genre. People that bought Metroid Prime thinking they were getting an FPS. Sometimes it's the expectations we ourselves built up from playing the last game in the series. Going into a game with the wrong mindset, and being dissapointed.

This is a drawback of modern games. Arcades had less room for this. Generally, you got what you paid for, if the game looks fun, you will probably enjoy it. Today's console games follow a whole new suit of ideals. It's far from the "simple, short, fun" mentality of the arcade scene, we'll accept that. It's now about bringing you into another world. The greater the sense of detachement, the greater the game. Not all games are like this of course. Basically, if you want to be anal about it, you could try breaking down the percentage of gameplay versus presentation the player is supposed to pay attention to for different titles. This is the whole principal of exploration in videogames. For instance, a game like Shenmue or Final Fantasy is about 80% presentation because you are supposed to pay 80% of your "attention" to the story/characters/environment/realism/music/graphics, you name it, everything that isn't interaction. Everything you, as a player, have no control over. This is a huge contrast to what arcade games used to be. It's sometimes funny to think that, in the end, gameplay might not really be the main reason people play games anymore. What makes a game fun? Would GTA be as fun if it was placed in a futuristic setting? For some yes, for others no. In short, it changes everything. Would Pac-Man be as fun if it was happy face eating stars and being chased by squeletons? This off the top of my head example might not be as appealing as the lovable mascots in Pac-Man, but in the end, you'll still be left quarter-less after an encounter with a "HappyFace-Man" machine.

In Pac-Man, presentation does not affect gameplay, where as in GoldenEye, presentation directly affects gameplay. In fact, in a very real way, the gameplay becomes part of the presentation. It's an expansion of the game's setting. In today's games, developers first think up the setting/theme, THEN they integrate the gameplay. Not the opposite. "I want to make a scary game about shooting zombies" not "I want a game where you control the guys like tanks and shoot slow moving targets in frustrating camera angles."*

But of course, I accept that, and I love it. But does that change the fact that modern game designers are more like movie directors? Yes and no. I see these "presentation-dependent" games as paintings, and the game designers are the painters. In fact, somewhere in the end, every time you look at a screen shot of an upcoming game, all you're seeing is a part of the painting, and you imagine the rest. You'll make the informative guess that if you see a flower, the rest of the painting must be a bouquet of flowers. But what if the rest of the painting was a rotting corpse on a feild, and there just happened to be a flower in the corner as a detail? You'd be surprised. But what if a rotting corpse was the last thing you wanted to see? You'd be dissapointed. Just like with MGS2's demo, where you're left with the idea that you'd be playing snake during the whole game. How do developers and advertisers react to this? They'll make sure that if you see a flower, you'll get a bouquet in the end. What happens then? Games lose whatever chance they have of really surprising us.

What are some of the games that really surprised me this generation? Rez, for one. You go into some pretty basic shooting game and end up with a quasi-philosophy of life. Can you call it just a "shooter"? Does a single screenshot of it do it justice?

Am I the only one that wants to start a game like Shenmue. A guy walking around town, talking to people in a retarded way, ask stupid questions to pretty dumb and boring people, (a pretty 'eventless' game to some). Let's say you play it like that for 10 hours. And then wake up the next morning and see that everyone in town turned into monsters over night, so you pick up a shotgun and play the rest of the game in first person view, blasting the guy that asked you for money for the coke machine every goddamn day. Think of all that effort put into Shenmue in terms of characters interaction all suddenly blown away in wide-spread killing? The game would shock you, and if done right, mark you for a long time. It would push you to start killing people you actually 'knew' inside the realm of the game.

But what would you call this game? A dialogue-centric adventure game turn hardrocking FPS? Would a screenshot do it justice? How would you market it without alienating people? Learning to get to know people for 10 hours, then suddenly being forced to kill them. It's an emotion experience, that's the only thing I'd call it. Just maybe not one that you would personally want to experience, it doesn't change the fact that it would be something strong and real to experience.

In short, that's why media ruins games, or whatever shot at being art they may have.

For reference, Pac-Man isn't art, it's purely a game.
REZ is as close as art games can get. And you know what they say about some art, you either get it or you don't.

* In Katamari Damacy, it's obvious Namco thought of the aspect of gathering up junk in a ball to make it bigger and then added a story, and not "Suppose there was a King of the Universe, and suppose he got drunk and destroyed the stars in the universe and then forced his son to fix it, what would his son do?". This is an example of gameplay affecting presentation.
 

Alcibiades

Member
yeah, that's why I stay away from previews and reviews for the most part, they spoil everything...

If it weren't for my wanting to check up industry news, interviews, and sales, I'd know little about games because it's pretty much just in passing that I hear about this stuff.

I don't remember 100% why I bought Secret of Mana as a kid, but I think it was some ad in an X-Men Pizza Hut mag.

Playing that game and not know what the heck to do at first (was in 5th grade) is so awesome when I look back on it. The game was totally epic not because of some review I read, but because the way I was playing it and how it was taking me time to adjust, learn controls and menu, it seemed to me that getting to Undine (basically the first level and/or stage if you think that way) was one of the main goals of the game. Turns out the game was way, way, way bigger than that and there were more elementals and bosses.

Totally epic. If I could reproduce that experience, when a game just blows away expectations, that would be awesome.

When a buddy of mine talks about future games it annoys the heck out of me. I DON"T WANT TO KNOW A THING!

man, somehow I don't think I could do it, but if I could just take an entire break from looking online for gaming news and stuff and just live off adverts and store visits, that would be totally awesome and games that I love now would seem even a ton better.
 
Some of the best gaming experiences I've had are going into games not knowing what to expect, like Ico. Precisely for this reason, media coverage spoils the gameplay and presentation inside a game. Now, I know there will be camouflage in MGS3. Would it have been way cooler for me to find out the day I got the game? Hell yes.

I'd be expecting some stealth action in some building, and ending up with camouflage in a jugle. In fact, when the game will start up and explain to me how the camouflage works, I'll be like "yeah yeah, I know" which is a direct link to how much I stopped paying attention to something the designers expected me to experience while being focused on understanding, because of the media and the hype. The hype and media konami themselves produced.

But how else would this industry work?
 

Alcibiades

Member
btw, the Secret of Mana thing kinda happened to me with GoldenEye. I saw an ad in a mag and got excited cause it was on Nintendo, and loved the one-player, and for like almost 2 months did not know about the multiplayer greatness of the title...

That was a totally word-of-mouth game that just blew people away since people hadn't experienced that kind of a game on consoles before. Game like Halo, Ghost Recon, Unreal nowadays IMO cannot achieve that same effect because of the endless hype they get. I remember hearing about Halo in Next-Generation magazine since the days when it was a PC title and the genre was unknown. I bet the only game this generation that has come close is GTA 3 (I don't speak from experience, BTW). That game started out in 2nd place in the sales chart to the hyped Devil May Cry from Capcom, but the people that had good expectations for it were blown away...

It's hard to do that when you hear so much about a game. If it were up to me, companies wouldn't say sh*t about a title till like a month before. Then they'd announce the title and give out a screen shot or two but not say anything abou it. I don't buy this whole "you need hype" to get the word out and sell systems.

If a game like Metroid Prime had hit stores with anybody knowing what the game was about or how it played, it would have totally blown people away even more than it did (and it got quite a few GOTY awards, like GoldenEye).

Word-of-mouth (with hopefully people not entirely spoiling games) >>> today's game media.

I think I'm going to go on a DS-new hiatus and see how the games seem to me not knowing crap about them, and just learning to play them without having been told how after reading previews online...
 

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
I'm not a master of the written language (and FAR from it, ha-ha) but you're essay had a complete lack of focus. Your beginning paragraph started off explaining that the Media consortium ruins games and it was coherently formulated thesis. That's perfectly fine and you could really go on a great tangent with that. The problem occurs when you hit paragraph two and it doesn't flow into your next idea. While I understand how they're connected it wasn't properly addressed. It was jarring that there wasn't a nice segues to continue the pace. The rest of the piece also has an array of thoughts all clumped together without any encompassing point to string it all together. You even mention a game having a quasi-philosophy of life and nothing results from that statement. It just ends as bluntly as it was stated, not very rewarding. I respect what you're trying to accomplish so please take this as an honest and thoughtful criticism.

Complaints aside, I generally understand what you're trying to say. Preconception and perspective is 90% of our attitudes when we relate to what we experience. It’s quite hard to be surprised and have truly independent thought in such a connected society.

Game developers should strive to create more mystery in their titles to reward passionate gamers. Within the past 20 years video-games have evolved into big-business and as a result proper marketing and glamour are really needed to ensure sales. Kojima is one of the few developers (that I can think of anyways) that properly demonstrates how effective astonishment and wonder can be. He is one of the few developers who are awarded with such luxury, the Metal Gear Solid franchise is one of the rare titles that can withhold a lot of information and still be a hot commodity in the marketplace. Even so, when compared to his previous game a lot more information has been released to the public in order to gather more excitement. Another excellent example is Halo 2. Aside from the general details the public doesn't have a clue about the advancements it's made over the sequel aside from a list of important points Microsoft saw fit to release to the public. Sadly wonder and awe isn't important in an industry that relies so heavily on marketing and full knowledge of the product in order to genuinely intrigue the consumer.

The only solution at this point is to effectively manage the flow of information. The onus is now on the consumer when knowledge is reaching such a ubiquitous currency. Hopefully I made a bit of sense! :)
 

Ill Saint

Member
I didn't read much of that (kinda late, minds scattered), but a lot of the mystery is disappearing from games, and yeah, because of media, particularly magazines. I've noticed especially the Japanese magazines have no problem putting end bosses and major spoilor screens as big as they can.

Self control gets seriously tested...
 

epmode

Member
while the initial post was kind of rambling, i agree with the principle. for the last few months, i've been purposely avoiding information on games i'm sure to buy, and they've been much more enjoyable because of it..
 

Gattsu25

Banned
TekunoRobby said:
I'm not a master of the written language (and FAR from it, ha-ha) but you're essay had a complete lack of focus. Your beginning paragraph started off explaining that the Media consortium ruins games and it was coherently formulated thesis. That's perfectly fine and you could really go on a great tangent with that. The problem occurs when you hit paragraph two and it doesn't flow into your next idea. While I understand how they're connected it wasn't properly addressed. It was jarring that there wasn't a nice segues to continue the pace. The rest of the piece also has an array of thoughts all clumped together without any encompassing point to string it all together. You even mention a game having a quasi-philosophy of life and nothing results from that statement. It just ends as bluntly as it was stated, not very rewarding. I respect what you're trying to accomplish so please take this as an honest and thoughtful criticism.

Can't say I disagree with this, especially since everything you accuse him of I am guilty of as well :b

Now, Date of Lies, I agree with your thoughts for the most part. The media does ruin games. Games are too 'experience' centric. People do create unfair impressions on what a game is supposed to be based on limited knowledge then fault or praise the game for 'suprising' or 'dissapointing' them. The game design process is fucked up. However, your idea of a Shenmue-like game that turns FPS wont work as no sane human would play a game like Shenmue for more than 10 hours.
 

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
Gattsu25 said:
Can't say I disagree with this, especially since everything you accuse him of I am guilty of as well :b
Hell I'm in the same boat! Sometimes it's hard for me to accurately formulate my thoughts in an effective manner with words. It might be due to my studies (art major) but it happens to me quite a bit. I'm actually very guilty of doing a thousand edits to my post because I'm never happy with what I initially wrote. I just hope I didn't sound snobby/mean because I liked what he was trying to point out. I also don't presume I'm correct on any of it, I'm just basing it off of what I think would be best. So if I'm wrong please do yell at me for it! Hopefully some of those pointers might be of some use. :)
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
I have this funny feeling that Pac-Man -does- have an excellent presentation, and that Rez and Pac-Man both have artistic elements.

Just because something is "old" doesn't mean it fails in all the catagories, sir.
 

TekunoRobby

Tag of Excellence
DavidDayton said:
I have this funny feeling that Pac-Man -does- have an excellent presentation, and that Rez and Pac-Man both have artistic elements.
One could even argue that both Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man were the epitome of elegant presentation when they were initially released. Most especially the addition of cutscenes within Ms. Pac-Man. They were designed so intelligently that it seemed to pull people away from what they were doing and force their eyes upon the screen.
 

LukeSmith

Member
For instance, a game like Shenmue or Final Fantasy is about 80% presentation because you are supposed to pay 80% of your "attention" to the story/characters/environment/realism/music/graphics, you name it, everything that isn't interaction

What the idiotic 80% rule conjuring out of your ass fact is this horseshit?

En, Englais, bitte.
 

Ranger X

Member
Dates of lies

That only means you can't read between the lines with ads and publicity. And you're not alone. Sales are driven by publicity. Internet is publicity too. IGN is publicity. Magazines are in fact publicity.
You have to learn to detach from medias and make up your own ideas about games that are coming up and learn to decifer when and how people/medias are exagerating or giving you an overwhelmed perspective of a game.
If medias can ruin your gaming experience first of all it can means you're not brainwashed by it yet (and that's good) But it also can mean that your expectations are too much made up by medias and not realistic.
 
Pac-Man not art!?! REZ is art? If Art is defined by an abstract visual style then fine. Art is not defined by that though. The art of a game may be defined when the visuals, gameplay, and sound feed the overall concept to create a cohesive whole.

Katamari dynasty is just another game in the long line of concept titles like Toy Commander. It is good but I hope people are not mistaking the obviously designed wierd look for something unique or special considering that sort of bizarreness was pretty commonplace in the 8 and 16 bit days.
 
The order of my ideas could have been better, but it was a bit hard for me to stay focused and I did cut some things that had even less relation.

Wyzdom, I can detach from the media, like right now, I prohibiting myself of entering any MGS3 thread, but the simple fact that I already know some information about the game can make the experience less fresh for me, like I explained in my second post.


About Pac-Man not being art, maybe I'll use another example. Would you consider rubic's cube or tetris to be art?
 

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Wyzdom said:
Dates of lies

That only means you can't read between the lines with ads and publicity. And you're not alone. Sales are driven by publicity. Internet is publicity too. IGN is publicity. Magazines are in fact publicity.
You have to learn to detach from medias and make up your own ideas about games that are coming up and learn to decifer when and how people/medias are exagerating or giving you an overwhelmed perspective of a game.
If medias can ruin your gaming experience first of all it can means you're not brainwashed by it yet (and that's good) But it also can mean that your expectations are too much made up by medias and not realistic.
I think he's going beyond saying that the opinions of the media are what ruin games. It's not just the hype. It's the fact that screenshots and video are released of every goddamned area of a game. You see everything the game has to offer before the game is out. That has little to do with subjectivity and forcing yourself to step back and look at what's really being said by the media and PR.

Or at least, that should be part of his argument.

I know I've tried to stop following games so closely. Back before I was online I'd buy games just by going to the store and looking at the boxes, and I stumbled onto a lot of great games like that, such as Blast Corps, GoldenEye and Pilotwings 64. It's just more fun going into a game without knowing about all the different areas, enemies and scenarios that you're going to have to face. I wish I could cut down on looking at movie trailers because they do the same thing; you see a scene and when you're watching the movie, you know that's coming. That's why I tend to really enjoy watching films at film festivals. They're movies I've probably not heard much if anything about and I don't have a clue where it's going to go over the course of 2 hours.

I'm playing through Beyond Good & Evil right now, and aside from playing very first fight scene at E3 2003, I didn't know much at all about it. Because of that, I'm having a blast discovering new things. There are areas, strategies, bosses, plotpoints, etc, that I haven't been introduced to in the slightest. If I had read a bunch of reviews and looked at all the screenshots and videos that were available before playing, the experience wouldn't be as fresh and fun.

I think that's where the media hurts. It might not be so much their coverage in general, but the sheer volume of it. So I've just stopped looking. I think I'm going to go pick up Second Sight soon, since it appears to have gotten decent scores and sounds fun, and hopefully I'll enjoy discovering it with such minimal knowledge and expectations.
 

Meier

Member
Gaming was definitely more fun and interesting for me prior to reading internet message boards and becoming jaded. It was until the Dreamcast that I did more than just check out game news on sites like IGN. I didnt notice frame rate drops and graphics werent that big of a deal for me on the N64 even though I was constantly reading fansites and keeping myself up to date on games that were being released.
 

JJConrad

Sucks at viral marketing
Meier said:
Gaming was definitely more fun and interesting for me prior to reading internet message boards and becoming jaded. It was until the Dreamcast that I did more than just check out game news on sites like IGN. I didnt notice frame rate drops and graphics werent that big of a deal for me on the N64 even though I was constantly reading fansites and keeping myself up to date on games that were being released.
Damn straight. I've found that I enjoy gaming more when I stay far away from this board. Its as if everybody here hates playing video games and can't be happy until everybody else hates the same things. Unfortunately this place is like crack and I can't break that addiction.


The things I hate about the gaming media is:

1. They fall for their own dumb hype. You can smell a high score a mile away, just by the game's title.

2. They suck up to large publishers. How many times have abnormamlly high scores been assoiciated with an exclusive.

3. They're more obsessed with having the source than using the source. Not counting NDA's (which is another problem), we've heard so many times of someone gloating about knowing something, but "can't" tell. Don't tell us you know something, if you aren't going to spill it.

4. They always think they know how things should be. The gaming media is just a bunch of paid message board fanboys. I want paid to complain about everything.

5. IGN.
 
Date of Lies said:
About Pac-Man not being art, maybe I'll use another example. Would you consider rubic's cube or tetris to be art?

Tetris in particular has very elegant gameplay, so yes. But then this will dwell into a discussion about what art is exactly which will go nowhere.
 
Listen to Dan up there.

Anyway, the rest of my argument was that because of this outburst of media, it's impossible for the designers to really surprise us. And avertisers, journalists and reviewers can and will use screenshots which designers didn't entend for you to see prior to playing the game. They will tell you about gameplay segments which were supposed to be a surprise.

But advertisers know about this mind frame a player enters a game with, so in order not to deceive the player, the gamer will get what they expect, most of the time. Because of this designers usally make games which are linear in their development and repetetive in their gameplay so they can market the game to a specific crowd. Which strips away the artistic aspect of games and makes them more into commercial buyouts.

EDIT: Mr. Lemmings, if you consider Tetris to be art, than so is Rubik's cube.
 
Mr. Lemming said:
Tetris in particular has very elegant gameplay, so yes. But then this will dwell into a discussion about what art is exactly which will go nowhere.

Tetris is without question a piece of art and a very important part of video gaming in it's own right.
 

Ranger X

Member
Well, i can't remember big surprises in games being spoiled in magazines and internet websites except maybe when they say "SPOILERS AHEAD". This is where i stop reading.

But what i wanted to say (it's a bit side to the topic of the thread i guess) is that by seeing all those screeshots, movies and articles you are forming yourself an idea of the game. But if you're not an experienced gamer enough, you will take wrong messages from those screenshots/movies/articles. And this is where you will now build an unrealistic or wrong hype. Then you bought the game and you're deceived. Soooo many people fall for this.
 
Date of Lies said:
EDIT: Mr. Lemmings, if you consider Tetris to be art, than so is Rubik's cube.

In much the same way Tetris has elegant gameplay, the Rubik's cube is an elegant mathmatical puzzle so yes I do consider it to be art. Again, this is going into a discussion of what is art and so on which I'm not about to get into.

The discussion about how gameplay and "emotional experience" play off of and contrast each other in a variety of ways is an interesting one, but I don't think a pure gameplay experience or a pure emotional experience are inherently better or worse than the other.
 

COCKLES

being watched
Devs should take a leaf out of Bungies book...and show as less as possible. It's nearly here and we know virtually fuck-all about the single player. Which is how it should be. Not a billion screens leaked early with loads of movies...cough...cough....Valve.
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
...as I've said before, I dislike the "art" label being applied to games, as I think that that is most often done for reasons other than their design and appeal. However, if we MUST apply the "art" label, titles like Tetris and Pac-Man are much more artistic than something like Final Fantasy. Tetris and Pac-Man are simple and elegent... FF tends to be large and clunky.
 

callous

Member
Soul4ger said:
FACT: Condoms ruin sex.

I wouldn't say they ruin sex, but a sexual encounter that would normally rate at 10/10 is definitely reduced to something like 5/10 with a condom.

Videogames? Huh?
 
COCKLES said:
Devs should take a leaf out of Bungies book...and show as less as possible. It's nearly here and we know virtually fuck-all about the single player. Which is how it should be. Not a billion screens leaked early with loads of movies...cough...cough....Valve.


I agree, Bungie has done well in this aspect, and no one knows what to expect from Halo 2's single player. However, Bungie will be powerless to the information and media being distributed once the game hits. Something as simple as a review that states "Halo 2 has great visuals and environment. You get to explore Zanzibar, The Covenant's ship base, the 4 new Halos. You also have 15 weapons in this game and 4 different ships" can potentially ruin the experience.

Now you'll play the game with the mindset of "when am I going to go inside the next Halo and when will I get to use the next vehicle?"
 
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