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Fall 2012 Anime |OT| Meet the new world, same as the old world
- Thread starter Dresden
- Start date
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I can hear the stomach.
I love Hidamari Sketch's clean, vector-ish style. It just works.
Jex
Member
You're creeping me out a little bit, Reg. But in a good way. I like it.
Including only scenes from the first two episodes of the season, haha.
It shall be glorious.
Jex
Member
I think that perhaps my only problem with Haru is that he's also extremely intelligent (despite, apparently, never going to school). I thought that they'd already given him enough character traits!
Basileus777
Member
I don't think it will really go down that route, at least I certainly hope it doesn't. That would just be the predictable/lazy way to elicit a reaction from viewers. It's what Key would do, though they'd have Mutta find a magic space rock that would bring his brother back to life.
Jex
Member
I am actually saddened that now we have to hear about Kotaku in Off-Topic Community. I thought we had escaped their tendrils.
Have you been to a Japanese restaurant? They do sell curry. Don't get it mixed up with the curry you get at your local Indian take away.
PdotMichael
Banned
A little bit more than one day until Hidamari. My body is wide and a
episode sounds like a great way to start the new season.
I could definitely see Key pulling that kind of plot for melodrama.
thankfully they're not in charge.
Instead we get really awesome characters. and Serika.
Jex
Member
You can't hurt 7th if he's not around.
So I just read SAO spoilers about
. This story is fucking stupid as hell. I really wish I never started watching this show in the first place. All common sense would dictate that I drop the show but I can't, not due to any reason related to the show itself but rather me in that I hate to not finish shows.
Heathcliff
This gif sums up my opinion.
Jex
Member
It's never explicitly stated how intergalactic travel actually works in the LOGH universe (perhaps it's stated in the books) or why, exactly travel through other regions is impossible. I imagine it's something to do with the kind of interference that exists in those neighbouring areas of space. It's just something you have to kind of accept.
Here's something I found from someone else, perhaps they've read the source material:
The in-universe explanation isn't as important as the effect that the two corridors have on the political balance in the show.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
I have you on the other list. At the top, to be sincere.
All I am asking for is a throwaway line to explain it. I don't even care if it's technobabble or an illogical explanation like "Space AIDS" or something. Is that so much to ask? It wouldn't even take them five seconds.
I know I am being nitpicky. I am loving the show a lot nonetheless.
P.S. You hurt me with your Nia comments. You don't want to hurt me no more.
darkside31337
Tomodachi wa Mahou
It's not really a matter of opinion. It's factual. I haven't watched a show in years with characters more insufferable than Satoshi and Mayaka.
I'm not sure if this has been posted before, but I think this would make for some pretty interesting discussion with regards to animation production in Japan and general pay grades for the animation part of a production.
The Anime Mirai 2013 project (young animators training project) actually has a really detailed guideline document for participating studios available online, and one thing I noticed in it is that it has a section specifically about manpower and budget guidelines for the project.
Project Guidelines:
Cost Guidelines Breakdown:
Monthly Salary Breakdown Guidelines for the Production Team:
Extra notes about the salary for Animation Directors on this project:
Reference: http://janica.jp/events/h24wakate/h24project.pdf (Page 24-26)
The Anime Mirai 2013 project (young animators training project) actually has a really detailed guideline document for participating studios available online, and one thing I noticed in it is that it has a section specifically about manpower and budget guidelines for the project.
Project Guidelines:
- 23 minute 30 second to 25 minute runtime, including OP/ED.
- 380 cuts, including OP/ED.
- 11,000 in-between animation frames, including OP/ED.
- Animation quality is expected to be higher than an average TV episode, but not as high as a theatrical feature. Something like a high end TV special.
- They expect the key animation quality to be about 2.5 times that of a TV series, because with about 12 key animators on the project for 3 months, each animator will only be handling about 32 cuts each. The lower work load is expected to result in the animators putting in more effort and time into self-correction and improving their skills. It is noted that on average for a TV series, key animators are expected to animate 27 cuts per month.
Cost Guidelines Breakdown:
- Director (1) - Pre-production planning (Planning, script, storyboards) - 800,000yen
- Character Designer (1) - Character designs - 800,000yen
- Director (1) - 400,000yen per month for 6 months of full production - 2,400,000yen
- Animation Director (1) - 600,000yen per month for 4 months of production - 2,400,000yen
- Assistant Animation Director (1) - 400,000yen per month for 3 months of production - 1,200,000yen
- Key Animators (6-12) - An average of 20,000yen per cut for 380 cuts - 7,600,000yen
- In-Between Animation Supervisor (1) - 300,000yen for 3 months of production - 900,000yen
- In-Between Animators (33) - 400yen per frame for 11,000 frames divided by 33 animators (300 frames per animator) - 4,400,000yen
- Total Animation Production Cost - 20,500,000yen
- Production Budget - 38,000,000yen
- Left-over Budget for other expenses - 17,500,000yen
Monthly Salary Breakdown Guidelines for the Production Team:
- Animation Director (1) - 300,000yen per month for Animation Direction, 300,000yen per month for Key Animation Guidance Training - 600,000yen per month total
- Assistant Animation Director (1) - 200,000yen per month for Animation Direction, 200,000yen per month for Key Animation Guidance Training - 400,000yen per month total
- Normal Key Animator (3) - 25,000yen per cut, 12-22 cuts per month - 300,000yen to 550,000yen per month total
- Junior Key Animator (5) - 15,000yen per cut, 10-17 cuts per month - 150,000yen to 250,000yen per month total
- In-Between Animation Supervisor (1) - 150,000yen per month for In-Between Supervision, 150,000yen per month for In-Between Animation Guidance Training - 300,000yen per month total
- In-Between Animators (33) - 120,000yen to 180,000yen per month depending on work volume
Extra notes about the salary for Animation Directors on this project:
- On a normal TV series, an Animation Director is generally expected to check about 300 frames per day.
- On this project, for a 3 month production period of 25 days per month, 10,000 frames would be roughly split into 133 frames per day, with the work divided between the Animation Director and the Assistant Animation Director. The reason for this lower workload is because for this project the Animation Directors are also expected to help guide and train the animators working on the project. This is why the salary breakdown is split between actual direction and assisting animators on their job training.
Reference: http://janica.jp/events/h24wakate/h24project.pdf (Page 24-26)
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Animators don't make enough in Japan. I know the market is small, but man... :-(
Wut.
"23 minute 30 second to 25 minute runtime, including OP/ED."
Anime Mirai is not a TV series. It's a set of shorts where the budget is given to different studios participating. These are the guidelines they must follow for the production of the short.
Wut.
"23 minute 30 second to 25 minute runtime, including OP/ED."
Anime Mirai is not a TV series. It's a set of shorts where the budget is given to different studios participating. These are the guidelines they must follow for the production of the short.
Then how does that budget breakdown work? I'm kinda confused as to how this is set up.
Err... what? I don't think I can explain it any better than I already have.
It's a breakdown on the expected animation cost of a single production in the project. Maybe you should read it all first?
R_thanatos
Member
Do you know his motivations ? his goals ?
Because calling the story stupid but not knowing all the stuff ( or before knowing all the stuff ) isn't common sense either.
Tonari no Kaibutsu-kun ep 1
Despite the fast pacing developments it actually felt long 45 min OVA instead of 25 mins which is good. I don't feel bored watch unlike a certain slowjou show which is actually fucking slow. Of course the setting is absurd and unrealistic due to developments between the characters wasn't flesh out properly but I can overlook that part and oh I do like the colourful OP. Tomatsu Haruka easily show her repertoire, I really can't distinguished her voice.
Despite the fast pacing developments it actually felt long 45 min OVA instead of 25 mins which is good. I don't feel bored watch unlike a certain slowjou show which is actually fucking slow. Of course the setting is absurd and unrealistic due to developments between the characters wasn't flesh out properly but I can overlook that part and oh I do like the colourful OP. Tomatsu Haruka easily show her repertoire, I really can't distinguished her voice.
So you mean to tell me that a single production cost 400,000 dollars?
Erm... yes?
I also want to clarify that a single production being that of a single episode? Because if that's true then who is making money?
We're being asked to raise $150,000 to pay for a 10 minute anime short by Masaaki Yuasa. Based on that, half an hour (the length of an Anime Mirai short) would be $450,000. $400,000 seems reasonable when several of the staff members will be trainees!
This really does seem like I'm missing something vital or misunderstanding something because people must be losing money hand over fist in this industry. I mean the break-even point for shows like Hyouka have to be extremely high.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
It's a harsh world out there. You have to also consider other things like licencing fees and merchandising.
A 2 cour anime cost 300 million yen. It might have some related reference here.
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...oducer/26-episode-anime-costs-300-million-yen
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/int...oducer/26-episode-anime-costs-300-million-yen
Well, if you actually read what I posted, instead of jumping to ask the first question that comes to your mind, you would realize that there is a higher investment here specifically because each short is meant to be a higher quality piece to give more time to the younger animators for training purposes. It would be similar to the production of an OVA.
For TV series, the budget for a single episode can range from 20,000,000yen to 40,000,000yen though, so it isn't really that far off either, but this is just higher than the average. A few million dollars to produce a full TV anime series is actually incredibly cheap, especially when you consider that the budget for a single episode of Avatar the Last Airbender is a million dollars.
Japanese animation budgets are already disgustingly low, so I'm not sure why you seem to be so surprised at the cost. A typical high budget Ghibli movie costs a little over 20 million dollars to make. The average Disney animation movie costs 90 million dollars to make. The average cost a Japanese anime movie (non-Ghibli) runs from a little over a million to 5 million or so. It's peanuts compared to any American production.
Yes I'm aware of that, in that it was a higher than average work but that still sounds insane. Especially when you consider the sales of certain series that had relatively high animation levels. It's just the break-even sounds so high that the risk involved with productions seems like it would scare off most investors.
American productions have multiple ways of getting revenue especially with movies. Just being a bust in the theater doesn't mean you're losing money. Anime has much more limited options available to them.
amishpriest99
Member
Just imagined yandere Mugi saying this...
Ultimadrago
Member
HidaSketch x365 12
ya just gotta feel sorry for natsume
She brings delicious confusion upon herself~
That is why most investors in the anime industry are from the anime industry themselves. It's a relatively closed industry made up of companies which know how to profit from low margins, and have been in the business for decades. It's not an appealing or interesting industry for anyone outside looking in. Don't you think the output of the industry reflects that very strongly?
Not as true as you think. There are a lot of means for anime to recover revenue, but not everything applies to every individual show. Merchandising, tie-ins, licensing, etc are some ways to recover large portions of revenue without ever selling a single disc. In other cases, the major investors in an anime production are publishers looking to boost the profile of a light novel series or a manga series. Even if the anime itself flops, it is treated as advertising cost for the source material. A few million bucks of effective advertising is nothing really. Every disc sale just recovers a bit more of that, but they don't have to make it all back either.
I've extensively discussed this topic both on the anime threads here and on the manga thread. I guess you weren't paying attention! Lol.
Has Funimation ever mentioned how much it costs to license a show? Yes I'm aware it depends on the show as Bake was supposedly insane price-wise. I'm just trying to figure out what would be considered 'decent sales'. I mean when you see shows on average do less than 5k then it seems like there is money being lost somewhere even when you consider merchandising.
That's actually much more reasonable.
For modern day animation in the us, the cost is between 250,000 at the low end, and 1 million at the high end. Nobody goes over 750,000 these days though and it shows. For a majority of MacFarlaine works - its 500,000 even. But each episode makes back 3 times its amount.
Most anime only gets 1.5x back on a good day. Madoka is even lucky to get back 2x back with no US TV deal. If it had it it would easly get 3x.
Most anime only gets 1.5x back on a good day. Madoka is even lucky to get back 2x back with no US TV deal. If it had it it would easly get 3x.
We already know from ANN's industry posting some time back, that it depends. Funi didnt do prebuy's like 4Kids did (which they only paid for the master, which kept there cost low) Sentai might be doing the same thing with the prebuy then going after the other parts later.
Index is a good indicator for the average cost of a low budget series. Most shows which actually get talked about extensively here cost much more though. You can find more data if you're interested, there's a lot lying around.
I'm more interested in discussing the salaries of the various core staff on the Anime Mirai project really. I'm sick of discussing anime budgets and cost recovery, no offense.
I said the same thing.
Canis lupus
Member
One Piece 230
The wonders of world building. I'm starting to understand Water 7. And a possible rival gang for the crew.
The wonders of world building. I'm starting to understand Water 7. And a possible rival gang for the crew.
I know Water 7 arc is the second part of the CP9 story, but I skipped the first part because of middling reviews of the Davy arc, did I miss any important information from that arc. I'm assuming I am finally going to learn Robin's backstory in Water 7.
I wonder if Zoro is going to kick some ass in the next episode?...Yeah. He will.
I wonder if Zoro is going to kick some ass in the next episode?...Yeah. He will.
Go_Ly_Dow
Member
Same! Although people in the real think I say crazy shit because I'm drunk.
even when i'm not
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Hyouka was great, Natsuyuki was pretty good, Jinrui is supposed to have turned out pretty well, and the new Moyashimon was fun, or so I hear.
Jim E. Rossler
Banned
Don't watch Moyashimon Returns
Because you'll have to watch the original first, which is great
Then you'll watch the new anime, which is still good
Then you'll want to continue the story and be shit out of luck, as only 2 volumes were released in english and even scanslators stopped at chapter 12
Because you'll have to watch the original first, which is great
Then you'll watch the new anime, which is still good
Then you'll want to continue the story and be shit out of luck, as only 2 volumes were released in english and even scanslators stopped at chapter 12
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