Support NeoGAF

[jeremy1456]

Very hard for non Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy/Kingdom Hearts JRPG's to sell over 400k in Japan.

Fixed.

But yeah, you're right.

EDIT: And unfortunately I don't see White Knight doing too well outside of Japan.

 

[RiZ III]

:lol :lol awesome

 

[cvxfreak]

Amazon Japan sold out of its initial shipment of REmake Wii!

 

[jeremy1456]

Amazon Japan sold out of its initial shipment of REmake Wii!

What would be awesome (though entirely unlikely) is if the Wii version outsold the gamecube one.

 

[A Link to the Past]

Can anyone link me to the Famitsu page with these numbers?

 

[Sadist]

Bringing RE2, RE3 and CV to Wii will only be tolerable as remakes. That would take the whole generation to get done

Spoiler

leaving RE5 for Wii2

.

Well, I don't see that happening to be honest...

 

[charlequin]

I agree that 500k is very unlikely for WKC, but not because it's a Level 5 RPG. Plenty of devs have changed performance over the years, and Dragon Quest VIII was also by Level 5.

That's ridiculous. In every sense that matters for this discussion, Dragon Quest 8 is not "by" Level 5; it's by Yuji Hori and Armor Project.

 

[HK-47]

Is it horrible that after seeing the happiness all are going through about Pikmin now being a million-selling franchise that I am going to buy the new play control Pikmin when it comes out here in March?

Even when I already own Pikmin 1 and 2 for Cube?

You are supporting franchise whoring to a degree beyond Mario spinoffs, but hey if you enjoy it and its your money

 

[donny2112]

Can anyone link me to the Famitsu page with these numbers?

They are leaked numbers that have aged out from their original source, but here's a blog that captured them before they aged out.

 

[jett]

Amazon Japan sold out of its initial shipment of REmake Wii!

sad

 

[cvxfreak]

sad

lol

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Very hard for non Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy JRPG's to sell over 400k in Japan.

Pokemon? Paper Mario? Kingodm Hearts? Chrono Trigger?

I'd say it's very hard for non-Nintendo/Square-Enix JRPGs, though.

 

[Tabris]

Note before my post: This is Famitsu, not Media Create.

30./15. [NDS] Genso Suikoden Tierkreis (Konami) - 27,000 / 90,000

Is this considered good? It's basically the same as a main series game in the sense that it has 108 stars and everything, so I would think it would be compared with other titles. How does it compare to Suikoden 1 to 5? Is it even selling better than the Suikoden 1/2 port for PSP?

 

[Eteric Rice]

Note before my post: This is Famitsu, not Media Create.



Is this considered good? It's basically the same as a main series game in the sense that it has 108 stars and everything, so I would think it would be compared with other titles. How does it compare to Suikoden 1 to 5? Is it even selling better than the Suikoden 1/2 port for PSP?

Are you really going to try to compare a spin-off to main series games? Are you really going to reach that hard?

 

[Stumpokapow]

Note before my post: This is Famitsu, not Media Create.

who is this in response to

Is this considered good? It's basically the same as a main series game in the sense that it has 108 stars and everything, so I would think it would be compared with other titles.

good point. on the other hand, it isn't a main series game so i would think it would be compared with the other games that are not main series games

How does it compare to Suikoden 1 to 5?

iii = 377k, launched at 191k
iv = 303k, launched at 179k
v = 194k, launched at 122k

Is it even selling better than the Suikoden 1/2 port for PSP?

well it's outsold the suikoden i/ii port for psp by an order of 250% so far (ltd 28k) and it's still selling, so you tell me

 

[Liabe Brave]

That's ridiculous. In every sense that matters for this discussion, Dragon Quest 8 is not "by" Level 5; it's by Yuji Hori and Armor Project.

Uh, that's exactly my point. The Level 5 name on a game's packaging isn't what makes it sell (or not), which is what Y2Kev was implying by drawing conclusions from "no other Level 5 RPG has gotten to 500k". DQ VIII sold (a lot) based on Japanese gamers loving what it was; WKC will sell (not nearly as much) based on how much Japanese gamers like it. Yes, there are contributing factors such as the platform and so on--I said as much in my post--but who coded the thing isn't high on the list.

And who designed it isn't either. Japan loves Yuji Hori games because they're Dragon Quest games, and if he did something else some of that shine might rub off but I bet the fundamental performance would be based on the game itself. Look at what Sakaguchi has managed with his recent games for Mistwalker: some have been very popular for what they were, some haven't.

 

[cvxfreak]

s this considered good? It's basically the same as a main series game in the sense that it has 108 stars and everything, so I would think it would be compared with other titles. How does it compare to Suikoden 1 to 5? Is it even selling better than the Suikoden 1/2 port for PSP?

Nope.

I + II debuted at 10,945 and made it to 28,271 before falling off the charts.

 

[HK-47]

Uh, that's exactly my point. The Level 5 name on a game's packaging isn't what makes it sell (or not), which is what Y2Kev was implying by drawing conclusions from "no other Level 5 RPG has gotten to 500k". DQ VIII sold (a lot) based on Japanese gamers loving what it was; WKC will sell (not nearly as much) based on how much Japanese gamers like it. Yes, there are contributing factors such as the platform and so on--I said as much in my post--but who coded the thing isn't high on the list.

And who designed it isn't either. Japan loves Yuji Hori games because they're Dragon Quest games, and if he did something else some of that shine might rub off but I bet the fundamental performance would be based on the game itself. Look at what Sakaguchi has managed with his recent games for Mistwalker: some have been very popular for what they were, some haven't.

Sorry but comparing the pull of anything from Level 5 to DQ is laughable. WKC will sell only on the backs of Level 5's effort. DQ VIII did not

 

[Opiate]

Pokemon? Paper Mario? Kingodm Hearts? Chrono Trigger?

I'd say it's very hard for non-Nintendo/Square-Enix JRPGs, though.

He didn't say impossible, just very difficult. Even with the examples you've given (and Pokemon is a very important one), that's still very few games. There are a dozen or more JRPGs released every quarter (we're counting small DS ventures).

And yes, every one of these franchises is made by Nintendo and SE.

 

[Elbrain]

Hopefully WKC will keep on trucking.

 

[Liabe Brave]

Sorry but comparing the pull of anything from Level 5 to DQ is laughable. WKC will sell only on the backs of Level 5's effort. DQ VIII did not

I have no idea how you got the totally misguided idea that my post was arguing that Level 5 is as popular as Dragon Quest. That's exactly ass-backwards from my very, very clear point. Let me try again:

Dragon Quest VIII sold what it did because of the game content, not because Level 5 worked on it. WKC will sell what it does--far, far less--due to its content, not because Level 5 worked on it.

 

[Y2Kev]

I'm suggesting that in the case of a new IP, often the name on the box IS what will help a game sell. And I went with the best fit comps and got, unsurprisingly, other level 5 games. What do you think is a better comparison than Rogue Galaxy?

Keep in mind my only point was that 500k is NOT a reasonable expectation for WKC and never was. If you set 500k as your "decent" benchmark, then you're setting yourself up for failure.

 

[manueldelalas]

Pokemon? Paper Mario? Kingodm Hearts? Chrono Trigger?

I'd say it's very hard for non-Nintendo/Square-Enix games, though.

fixed (very hard =/= impossible)

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

Eh no.

That was a pretty special case because Takara and Tomy merged, Takara owned controlling stake in Atlus and thus came a few localizations of their properties. That stake has been sold later to Index Holdings which is the major shareholder of Takara Tomy but still seems Atlus got rid of them.
.

Eh no.

Even ignoring the zoids example: Operation darkness and spectral force 3 x-box 360 sold even worse then Ris and almost as bad as zoids (2,800 / 2,500 respectively with Zoids being at 1,540. Yet localized they were!

 

[Kurosaki Ichigo]

Eh no.

Even ignoring the zoids example: Operation darkness and spectral force 3 x-box 360 sold even worse then Ris and almost as bad as zoids (2,800 / 2,500 respectively with Zoids being at 1,540. Yet localized they were!

You just said eh no to then ignore what I said? Basically eh yes but lets not talk about it and lets talk about this instead?

Atlus brings lots of poor selling titles like those from Success, Irem, Sting or Idea Factory. I'm agreeing with you that poor sales doesn't prevent any possibility of a localization, I just told you that the Zoids isn't a good example at all because of what I stated. And repeating myself, D3 can publish RIZ whatever by themselves, I seriously doubt their japanese sales will affect a localization.

 

[Spiegel]

Thanks for the updated list Captain Smoker.

 

[Liabe Brave]

I'm suggesting that in the case of a new IP, often the name on the box IS what will help a game sell. And I went with the best fit comps and got, unsurprisingly, other level 5 games. What do you think is a better comparison than Rogue Galaxy?

Nothing. Rogue Galaxy is a good fit. But so is Ace Combat 4 or Devil May Cry 4 (neither of which are new IP, the same genre, or by the same dev; one isn't even on the same system). On the other hand, Dark Cloud isn't a good fit, even though it's a new IP in the same genre by the same dev. My point was that general performance curves are the best bet for prediction, not who made the game. That's only a decent guideline before we have any numbers at all, when we're basically just making educated guesses.

Keep in mind my only point was that 500k is NOT a reasonable expectation for WKC and never was. If you set 500k as your "decent" benchmark, then you're setting yourself up for failure.

Duly noted, and I do agree, as I said in my first post. ("Never was" may be a bit strong, though, since it'll probably do about 75% of that expectation. Before we had the first week numbers, 500k lifetime wasn't unreasonable, no matter how optimistic.)

 

[nli10]

Pointer control and $30. It's a winning combination!

Any word on whether you can use your GC saves with these? Never did 100% Pikmin2.

 

[FINALFANTASYDOG]

You just said eh no to then ignore what I said? Basically eh yes but lets not talk about it and lets talk about this instead?

Atlus brings lots of poor selling titles like those from Success, Irem, Sting or Idea Factory. I'm agreeing with you that poor sales doesn't prevent any possibility of a localization, I just told you that the Zoids isn't a good example at all because of what I stated. And repeating myself, D3 can publish RIZ whatever by themselves, I seriously doubt their japanese sales will affect a localization.

Okay my my apolgies! I thought you were trying to argue that the only reason a poor selling game got brought over was because of Tomy/Takara Dealings, that in normal situations they don't get brought over.

My argument was that Japanese sales have very little impact on a game not being localized. Zoids was just a random example, but tens of others exist.

Yeah, going along with your point D3 Sales in japan have not affected localizations in the past.

 

[apujanata]

These RE re-releases are clearly an investment in brand building. They'll make Capcom a small chunk of cash, but in the end the reward of building the RE identity on the Wii will bring in the bigger reward in the future.

You know, it would be very interesting IF (a big if) Capcom re-make the other RE games for Wii. I mean, GCN, #2 machine (in Japan), got RE remake, and RE0, a brand new game. Wii, #1 machine (not just Japan, also worldwide), got RE4 Wii, RE:UC, RE0 Wii and RE-make Wii. It it possible that Capcom remake those remaining RE main series, which were released on GCN as a port (no remake).

Amazon Japan sold out of its initial shipment of REmake Wii!

BELIEVE (in other RE remake)

 

[donny2112]

Any word on whether you can use your GC saves with these? Never did 100% Pikmin2.

Haven't heard anything on it, but I doubt it. They are adding new things to each game (e.g. DK:JB got a few new levels and reworking of existing ones, Pikmin gets the ability to go back to any day of the 30 to replay that day and try to do better), but someone mentioned that they could be removing the GameCube controller option. In that case, reusing GCN saves seems unlikely.

Hopefully they add some bonus items to the Pikmin(s). I'm thinking a Wii, Wiimote, and DSi would be interesting. Maybe finally let us play the Game & Watch, too.

 

[Suburban Cowboy]

they made a new PS game?!

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Is this considered good? It's basically the same as a main series game in the sense that it has 108 stars and everything, so I would think it would be compared with other titles. How does it compare to Suikoden 1 to 5? Is it even selling better than the Suikoden 1/2 port for PSP?

It's doing worse than all the main titles, but better than all the ports/spinoffs. In-between title is in-between.

Suikoden group

 

[kswiston]

Very hard for non Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy JRPG's to sell over 400k in Japan.

It's definitely not as easy for a jrpg to hit 400k as it was during the height of their popularity in the PS1 era. A lot of rpg series used to be in the 400k+ club.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

It's definitely not as easy for a jrpg to hit 400k as it was during the height of their popularity in the PS1 era. A lot of rpg series used to be in the 400k+ club.

Using Japan-GameCharts's list as reference, it still seems a pretty exclusive club. I may be missing some that I don't recognize by name, but I note 6 non-Square non-Enix RPGs over 400K; 3 of which are Tales.

Tales of Destiny (Namco) 829 K
Arc the Lad II (SCE) 817 K
Tales of Eternia (Namco) 669 K
Tales of Phantasia (Namco) 550 K
Breath of Fire III (Capcom) 435 K
PoPoLoCrois Monogatari (SCE) 406 K

If we're a bit more lenient there are a few more in the 350K-400K range, though.

 

[Jocchan]

If we're a bit more lenient there are a few more in the 350K-400K range, though.

And we would still be over the LSSB (LanceStern Success Benchmark)

 

[jesusraz]

It's doing worse than all the main titles, but better than all the ports/spinoffs. In-between title is in-between.

Suikoden group

Surprising to see the series take quite a downturn. Makes you wonder what system Konami really should bring Suikoden VI to. Could Wii really be the solution, or considering the so far decent sales of Tierkreis, the DS would be a better choice? Maybe testing the water with something like a remake of the first Suikoden might give a better idea.

 

[zoku88]

Surprising to see the series take quite a downturn. Makes you wonder what system Konami really should bring Suikoden VI to. Could Wii really be the solution, or considering the so far decent sales of Tierkreis, the DS would be a better choice? Maybe testing the water with something like a remake of the first Suikoden might give a better idea.

Well, it could've been because IV sucked and therefore ppl were wary of buying V...

 

[Eteric Rice]

Surprising to see the series take quite a downturn. Makes you wonder what system Konami really should bring Suikoden VI to. Could Wii really be the solution, or considering the so far decent sales of Tierkreis, the DS would be a better choice? Maybe testing the water with something like a remake of the first Suikoden might give a better idea.

Hard to say. DS would probably be the best bet, due to DQIX going there. But then maybe VII could follow DQX on the Wii.

It's probably going to be either DS, Wii, or PSP.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

I'm suggesting that in the case of a new IP, often the name on the box IS what will help a game sell. And I went with the best fit comps and got, unsurprisingly, other level 5 games. What do you think is a better comparison than Rogue Galaxy?

Keep in mind my only point was that 500k is NOT a reasonable expectation for WKC and never was. If you set 500k as your "decent" benchmark, then you're setting yourself up for failure.

Very much agreed. People really have to realize that it is 2009 (2008 in this chart) and not 2002. The Japanese gaming market is VERY different today then it has been yesteryears. I see this about as ridiculous as people who claimed that games like 428 or Tatsunoko vs Capcom should've sold over 100,000 units.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

And we would still be over the LSSB (LanceStern Success Benchmark)

Oooh - sales-age flashbacks ;-)

 

[Deku]

Surprising to see the series take quite a downturn. Makes you wonder what system Konami really should bring Suikoden VI to. Could Wii really be the solution, or considering the so far decent sales of Tierkreis, the DS would be a better choice? Maybe testing the water with something like a remake of the first Suikoden might give a better idea.

DS is probably the best choice, but its so crowded with RPGs at the moment it could easily get lost. So I'd say PSP has a good shot at it.

 

[jesusraz]

Hard to say. DS would probably be the best bet, due to DQIX going there. But then maybe VII could follow DQX on the Wii.

It's probably going to be either DS, Wii, or PSP.

Well, it's been rumoured for Wii and PSP at various stages, hasn't it?

- The PSP has shown it can be a good choice for certain games, but then again the port of Suikoden I & II was pretty much a sales disaster (personal opinion).

- Wii is still somewhat of an unknown for the genre - with Zelda, Dragon Quest Swords and Tales of Symphonia the main examples. But support for the genre is increasing, which could mean if VI came out quick enough it could jump on the bandwagon at just the right time to ride the coat-tails of other big releases.

- DS looks like a positive choice due to the good Tierkreis numbers so far, but the system's swamped with RPGs. That can, as we've seen by some of the surprising results, prove to be a double-edged sword (large RPG userbase vs. saturated genre on DS).

Well, it could've been because IV sucked and therefore ppl were wary of buying V...

For me it was III that started to put me off, then IV didn't draw me back into the series and I then couldn't be bothered with either V or Tactics. Tierkreis seemed like an intriguing reboot, and has so far proved to a breath of fresh air in my eyes.

 

[cvxfreak]

Besides the FF games, are there any prominent examples of franchises doing well on both PSP and DS? I can't think of any right now.

 

[C.T.]

back from a short japan trip to kobe (and osaka). its not rocket science, but the promotion for dragon quest 9 is huge. even at conbinis you see posters and promotions. I had troubles to find the sum I had to pay because of the huge dq9 advertisement at those cashier terminals. 5 million comfirmed. Layton has its own corner, you can't go into gaming corners without hearing the awesome soundtrack. WKC as well. Level 5 is certainly on a roll. As for 360, Star Ocean 4 gets a lot of promotion.

 

[ivysaur12]

Besides the FF games, are there any prominent examples of franchises doing well on both PSP and DS? I can't think of any right now.

Hmm... Megaman?

 

[Aaron Strife]

Hmm... Megaman?

Didn't Mega Man not do so well on PSP?

 

[apujanata]

Well, it could've been because IV sucked and therefore ppl were wary of buying V...

I finished Suikoden 1 and 2 (got all 108 stars), stopped playing 3 and 4 about 4 hours into it (I don't like those 2 games because they are westerners oriented, and because the 4 beginning hours is like a torture). I almost finished Suikoden V (even though the loading when starting battle and finishing battle is longgg), before I got a Memory Card problem, and it wiped out my savegame .

I think 3 is better than 4, even though I dislike both.

I would prefer Suikoden VI on console (Wii) than portable (DS). Suikoden graphics are almost always nice (not very advance, but better than average), so playing it on console is nicer (for me). Releasing it on DS might be a better decision, because the userbase is much bigger, and it could probably mean they return back to the 2D (like Suikoden 1 and 2, which is the best in the series, IMO). Suikoden 6 in 3D on DS is not as appealing (to me) compared to Suikoden 6 in 2D (or 2.5 D) on DS.

 

[Spiegel]

Besides the FF games, are there any prominent examples of franchises doing well on both PSP and DS? I can't think of any right now.

Konami's baseball games (Jikkyou Powerful Pro Yakyuu Portable and Power Pro Pocket) and... that's it

I would prefer Suikoden VI on console (Wii) than portable (DS). Suikoden graphics are almost always nice (not very advance, but better than average), so playing it on console is nicer (for me).

And psp?
It has the graphics and the portability!

 

[Sage00]

Besides the FF games, are there any prominent examples of franchises doing well on both PSP and DS? I can't think of any right now.

Valkyrie Profile?